| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrit
Posted: 6/10/2008 8:32:17 AM | I just read a book called simply John written by his first wife Cynthia Lennon. First off I would like to say its an excellant read but I came away from the book with a different view of John Lennon. Put his music aside with The Beatles or his solo work for a minute. His first son (Julian Lennon) was born in 1963. John was a good father early on even with all the touring but when The Beatles stopped touring in 1966 Cynthia thought John would be home more to be a better father and husband. Well He was on drugs and became worse at both. Now in 1968 he sent Julian and Cynthia on a vacation and when they returned Cynthia found John in the house with Yoko Ono. When Yoko left John played it off like no big deal. Thats happens I guess and I really dont think bad of him for cheating on his wife but when he and Cynthia split up he rarely came to visit his son and when he moved to new york he cut off all contact with Julian completely for 3 years which there is no excuse for. When he finally came back into Julian's life it was because John's love on his "lost weekend" May Pang convinced John to get back into Julian's life. Now in the mean time John was singing about peace and love but he didnt have it for his own son. John went back to Yoko later on in early 1975 and cut off contact with his son yet again for the most part except for a few visits in the summer. Now this continued for quite for a few more years. John retired from music to be a better father but he was still being a **stard to Julian. Then in 1980 John had a change of heart and once said in a interview I wasnt there for the first 17 years of my sons life but I am sure as hell going to be there for the next 17. Around this time roumers were twirling that Yoko was leaving John. But John became a better father to Julian and was spending alot of time with both of his sons. My only question is why in the hell did it take him 17 years to want to be a good dad. Then the unthinkable happend as we all know on that cold night in december and Julian lost his father forever never really never knowing the man John Lennon. Julian always thought of a man named Roberto as his father and its a real shame.
SO I COME AWAY FROM READING THIS BOOK NOT THINKING ABOUT ALL THE GREAT MUSIC JOHN LENNON MADE BOTH AS BEATLE BUT AS A SOLO ARTIST, BUT THINKING OF WHAT A DEAD BEAT FATHER JOHN LENNON REALLY WAS TO JULIAN. HE PICKED DRUGS AND YOKO OVER HIS OWN FLESH AND BLOOD AND I CANT RESPECT THAT. | |
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| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrit
Posted: 6/10/2008 12:23:19 PM | No doubt there's a lot of truth in your conclusions about John Lennon. Like many great artists he was a flawed human being and not all sweetness and light as some like to portray him - possibly basing their character assessment on the idealism of his most well known song, Imagine. I think there's a thread of cruelty that runs through his work, from his two poetry books where he makes fun of cripples and spastics, to his idea for a book title when Brian Epstein announced his projected autobiography - Lennon suggested Queer Jew. I also find his McCartney trashing How Do You Sleep track on the Imagine album to be unnecessarily cruel and inaccurate, if at the same time a rocking track and a worthy ancestor to Steel and Glass.
What can yer say? If he hadn't personally been a bit of a tw*t at times and a poor husband and father, maybe he wouldn't have been so talented either and we wouldn't even be talking about him.
In fact I'm sure Cliff Richard is a much nicer bloke than John Lennon but I have absolutely no desire to own any of his records.. | |
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| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrit
Posted: 6/10/2008 1:01:54 PM | Maybe if John had lived he would have worked with Julian when the lad started making his own music. We've been denied all that by he who shall remain nameless.
At least Julian benefitted from receiving his Dads' musical genes.. | |
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| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrit
Posted: 6/10/2008 2:31:33 PM | | When I first saw the title of this thread I thought, OMG, they're publishing Mark Chapman's letters from prison! There is little doubt that John was far from perfect. His casual comment about "The Beatles being more popular than Jesus" caused The Beatles to quit touring because he was getting so many death threats. It eventually resulted in him getting murdered by a "Christian." John was often at odds with his ideals and put his foot in his mouth at a regular basis, but this was part of his charm to many people. (Do you remember when John would do his "retard" routine on stage, in front of thousands of people?) Given his already slanted sense of humor, the unresolved, self-imposed issues from his childhood, and the ego inflating effects of tremendous, inescapable fame, John was one messed up dude at times. But you have to give him credit for one thing, even if the rest of the world couldn't quite understand it, he was obsessively in love with Yoko. So much so that when the infamous "Lost Weekend" was over, (during the majority if the time, John was piss-drunk missing Yoko, even if May Pang was there.) John turned his back on the music industry to concentrate on being a devoted husband and father. His biggest mistake was missing the fame and coming back out into the open. I don't care about what jerk John could be, I miss him terribly. When he was murdered, it felt as if I had lost dear friend. | |
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| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrit
Posted: 6/10/2008 3:39:32 PM | I was never a Beatle fan. Thought Lennon was the best one.
I hope I don't shred this quote too bad. Maybe someone here knows the straight scoop.
Someone said to Lennon, the BeeGee's are copying all your stuff.
Lennon said (something like) :
[Elvis copied Little Richard, we copied Elvis, now the BeeGee's are copying us. The copy is always better.]
Had a new found respect for him after that. | |
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| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrite
Posted: 6/10/2008 4:12:51 PM | But I still cannot figure it out. John could have had any woman in the world. And he picked Yoko? I still shake my head over that one. Has anyone seen the the Two Virgins LP cover? I went blind for three days after I saw it.
John was a musical genius, and certainly far from being the only musician who was a bas**rd. Ask Tina Turner, or Myrna Lewis, or Pamela Lee, or...well I think that's enough for starters. | |
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| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrite
Posted: 6/10/2008 5:14:40 PM | I also want to mention that the reason we know about the bad choices John made throughout his career is because of two reasons. One, is obviously John himself. He never shied away from speaking his mind in public. And two, his indiscretions were so widely publicized because he was so darn famous. We all know of a shmuck or two in our own lives who has neglected the children from his first marriage because he thinks that he's found himself or herself a "better replacement," but the only people that know about those people are the small circle of people closest to them. It's tempting to judge famous people harshly because we think they're above the rest of us and should know better. But John was just a man. Even if I didn't agree with all his politics or the way he (reportedly) treated women and children, I admire the way he wasn't intimidated by the press and stood up for what he believed in. A lot of it may have been a bluff, but the guy appeared fearless. It took a lot of guts to write a song like "Revolution" in the middle of the Vietnam war. It was a very non-commercial thing for a recording artist to do, but John didn't care. He felt like he had to say something. THANK YOU, JOHN!
By the way, why don't we think poorly of Cynthia Lennon for airing her dirty laundry to make a buck? | |
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| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrit
Posted: 6/10/2008 5:23:18 PM | | i remember seeing a documentry on tv about Julian where he talked about his father. i never really got into the beatles and after watching this doc i was kinda discusted. but the reason i was turned off perticularly was all the praise over john. and the i'm gonna sit in a bed naked with yoko for peace crap. to me it seemed like he was on some power trip about peace and love when he wasent really good at it himself. what happend to john in his childhood? maybe he was mentally sick. or yes he could of been just an ass hole. | |
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| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrit
Posted: 6/10/2008 5:47:48 PM | rhodes73 said:
and the i'm gonna sit in a bed naked with yoko for peace crap.
John & Yoko were never naked in the Bed-in for Peace thing. That's myth. They were always full dressed in something or other. They only ever were naked on the cover of "Two Virgins" (shudder) | |
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| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrite
Posted: 6/10/2008 8:45:38 PM |
By the way, why don't we think poorly of Cynthia Lennon for airing her dirty laundry to make a buck?
Maybe it's because she might deserve that buck a little more than a lot of the people who air their dirty laundry? Just a hunch. | |
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| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrit
Posted: 6/10/2008 10:10:36 PM | H-E-L-L-O and thankyou OP.Read Loving John by his first wife Cynthia to get the lowdown on this man.just sickens me the way he treated his son Julian,sad is all.Hypocrite is right.
but still the beatles are my number 1 favorite group of all time despite. | |
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| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrite
Posted: 6/10/2008 10:17:23 PM | There are so many books out on the Beatles and all four separately. I've read many of them through the years. It's well documented that they did this and that. Yes, it does make for some interesting reading.
John did own up to being a **stard. I think there is a quote that one of them said they HAD to be **stards to be a Beatle.
John Lennon.... showed us the man.... the human being..... John Lennon inside and out. Warts and all.
They all did questionable things. They were **stards to many people while out on tour. George Harrison even slept with Ringo Starr's wife Maureen. They all slept with groupies, popped pills, and were even stoned while meeting the Queen. It's all well documented and by now..... a part of history.
I think it all makes for great reading and helps us to understand that they were human... as well as gifted musicians. I would recommend though, that people read from the source.
Please read The Rolling Stone Interviews with John Lennon circa 1970..... read the last interview in Playboy with John Lennon.... He tells all. This is the best source and directly from the man himself.... who freely admits that he .... was a **stard.
In the end, some **stard who thought he was a hypocrite.... ended the man's life. | |
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| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrit
Posted: 6/10/2008 10:45:04 PM | It isn't news that John Lennon was sometimes a controversial & complex person and maybe, in some eyes, a walking contradiction (which cost him his life). But he was one of the more talented & interesting persons in rock n roll.
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| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrit
Posted: 6/10/2008 11:02:52 PM | His casual comment about "The Beatles being more popular than Jesus" caused The Beatles to quit touring because he was getting so many death threats. It eventually resulted in him getting murdered by a "Christian."
Personally, I think John a brilliant artist and in that light (which should be the ONLY public venue) Lennon is world class, unique, and maybe even a gift to humanity.
In regard to his death:
Did you have to categorize his killer as "christian". Really, is that where the emphasis is? I am 100% devoted to the concept of each to their own and belief is very sacred and personal. Whatever someone believes, it is just wrong to categorize a whole people-group by the actions of one headline. I'd venture to say that most 'Christians' would NOT commit murder, whatever they might believe, and most 'fanatics' WOULD.
And before you go off on a tangent, I do not categorize myself or my belief as 'christian', so don't even go there. Some people use that method to paint everyone who is 'similar' in the very basis of their belief with the same brush, when in truth everyone's experience is unique, personal, and individual. It is one of my peeves to hear anyone categorize a whole belief system by the actions of one person (especially a lunatic!). | |
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| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrite
Posted: 6/11/2008 7:41:59 AM | "By the way, why don't we think poorly of Cynthia Lennon for airing her dirty laundry to make a buck?"
Well also this is the first buck she has made of the lennon name, its her only book and i give her credit for telling her side of the story, of course its about making money, do you blame her? John left her with practically nothing. The money John gave her lasted only 5 years. Cynthia has just as much right to write a book as anyone and its a story i thought that was very intriguing and important for everyone to hear | |
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| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrite
Posted: 6/11/2008 7:44:32 AM | "John did own up to being a **stard. I think there is a quote that one of them said they HAD to be **stards to be a Beatle."
while this may be true, john was more of a **stard and hypocrit after the beatles. he ignored his son for 3 years, after the beatles broke up, only had occasional visits after the beatles. the fact of the matter is John wasnt a great father while being a beatle but was 10 times better when he was a beatle vrs. when he wasnt | |
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| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrite
Posted: 6/11/2008 11:44:06 AM | Did you all know they are making a movie about his dead?? Its about the life of a obsessed fan.I juts saw it on the net and i figured i would share that timbit of info!!!
ps: i agree hypocrite...all his songs of love..he was a pr|ck | |
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| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrite
Posted: 6/11/2008 1:37:38 PM | He wasnt anyone with any real power. He was just an entertainer - Iconoclast v.2.0
John admitted this himself. He was asked in an interview if The Beatles had any plans to get back together, and John said something like, "Those records will still be around for people to go back and listen to if they want to. All that has happened is that a musical group has broken up. It's no big deal. It's not important." This speaks to the contrary nature in John's personality. One day he would be downplaying the importance of his role, the next day he would be calling himself the greatest genius that ever lived. Pretty similar to how devoted he was to being a good father for Sean while ignoring Julian at the same time. Yeah, John was a hypocrite, and his politics were laughably naive, but he probably wasn't that much more self-serving that alot of us. Rationalizing our contradictions is a way of life for humans.
By the way, Nixon sure seemed to think John had some power. The American government tapped his phones and fought tooth and nail to keep John from getting his citizenship here in this country. | |
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| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrite
Posted: 6/11/2008 2:20:51 PM | He wasnt anyone with any real power. He was just an entertainer - Iconoclast v.2.0
He had the power to send a shiver down the spine with some of his work and thats a power I'd be happy to have. Yes, he was just an entertainer - that glib description puts him in a convenient little box, but lots of great artists whose works have a major life enhancing effect are just entertainers in the final analysis. | |
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| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrite
Posted: 6/11/2008 8:13:57 PM | You don't have to defend him to me, I'm a fan.
I think 'Working Class Hero' is brilliant.
My point was that perspective on his actual place in the world and his perceived power is only that of an entertainer. Holding him to some moral standard is unnecessary in that role.
Since when did we demand moral excellence from rock stars? Do you think Marilyn Manson really eats babies?
It's showbiz. | |
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| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrite
Posted: 6/11/2008 8:55:22 PM | | I've never heard a record by Marilyn Manson but note that he cultivates a mild Hammer Horror visual image, much like his prototype Alice Cooper did 40 years ago. Far from thinking he eats babies, I'm sure he's pleased to lose the makeup after a hard days pose and indulge an unpublicised taste for garden peas, or something equally mundane. | |
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| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrite
Posted: 6/11/2008 8:59:36 PM | So Manson eats peas instead of babies and Lennon played favorites with his sons instead of ensuring world peace (whirled peas?).
The show must go on... | |
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| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrite
Posted: 6/11/2008 10:07:28 PM | John was not there for Julian. He knew this. He was too busy being a Beatle and listening to "hurled pleas" of wanton lust from crazed fans through Beatlemania. John simply wasn't there. He recognized this and vowed to do things differently with Sean.
This is why he took 5 years off. The first 5 years of a childs life are the most formidable. John wanted to devote all his time and energy to give what he couldn't give Julian in his first five years. It was too late for Julian, who was now much older and coming over talking about motorbikes and asking for money. Because of John's absence, the two could not relate to each other very well.
Was John self absorbed? Yup. But he was looking for answers in seeking his own happiness. He tried for the brass ring of fame and fortune, sought inner peace through a guru, hid his pain from a bad childhood by doing drugs.... he tried everything under the sun.
Double Fantasy was a document of those 5 years. 5 years of being a househusband and baking bread. Five years of bonding with Sean as a father... to make up for what he missed with Julian. He knew he blew it.
He blew it many times with his career as well. All you have to do is read the words to some of the songs to know that he knew he was a **stard. (Jealous Guy, I'm Losing You....)
The song "Help".... was a true cry for help.
But also listen to the words and music of even one of Paul McCartney's favorite Lennon songs.... Beautiful Boy (Double Fantasy) to know that John Lennon finally figured out that looking in on his sleeping son adoringly.... was far more important that being on the charts and going through the motions.
That is the life lesson of John Lennon... that even a self absorbed woman hitting macho **stard from Liverpool, could find a bit of happiness and domestic bliss with the woman HE loved.
..... so give peas a chance. | |
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| John Lennon was a bastard and a hypocrite
Posted: 6/12/2008 7:03:54 AM | | even if john releazied the mistakes he made with julian, why would he ignore him for 3 years after the beatles craze and its well documented in the book that julian loved his father and wanted to be with him, it was the 3 years of ignoring him that really turned julian away from john. to hell with john lennon, i love the music from both the beatles and him as a solo artist and will never stop but i cant respect him and write it off as he made just a mistake, not only was he not there for julian before his death, he really wasnt there after his death, left everything he owned to yoko and sean in his will. whats up with that. | |
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