| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/11/2008 5:40:48 PM | .
Testimony (anti illegal) "51 Florida Hospitals in trouble"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDjZ6gzo0C4
Testimony of illegal alien care from 1 Florida hospital
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLJxmJZXgNI
No need to editorialize. Here is a sampling of the sort of facts the politicians and pro-illegal lobby want you to ignore, yet expect you to continue to bear the burden of. Is it any wonder scores of hospitals in border states and elsewhere have shut down or closed their ER units?!
I think hospitals should require birth certs before allowing anyone into er thanks to our federal government pushing the north american union, then turn right around and sue the feds for failure to enforce existing immigration laws. When people start dying in the streets then it might get their attention.
I hope everyone on the border states write their reps and demand compensation.
Just imagine if this were being fed from the federal trough via the universal health agenda effectively removing the states power to do anything about it?
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/11/2008 8:09:26 PM | I'm not sure what the problems of hospitals in border states has to do with universal health care........what's the connection?
Oh, wait, I am supposed to use my imagination........ok, let me imagine........going to Canada for health care, say I show up in Montreal needing a kidney transplant with no insurance in America.........any Canadians care to say what would happen? | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/11/2008 9:06:09 PM |
Oh, wait, I am supposed to use my imagination........ok, let me imagine........going to Canada for health care, say I show up in Montreal needing a kidney transplant with no insurance in America.........any Canadians care to say what would happen?
If there was a kidney available, you would get it. We are not allowed to turn anyone away for any reason at hospitals in Canada.
I think the vast majority of people do not grab the concept of the difference between 'social medicine' and 'single payer'.
They are two different things. Canada has the single payer system. Simply put, there is just one insurance company and everyone gets in. The insurance company is the government. It handles the money. The government also negotiates and purchases all drugs for Canadian pharmacies which is why our drugs are so much cheaper than yours..it all comes from your producers, they just sell it to us cheaper.
Now don't go and listen to all the bull$hit the insurance lobby is hurling around about our system. Of course they want you to believe it ucks..if you believe otherwise they are out of business.
I had cancer 10 yrs ago. Diagnosed the same day I called my doctor, had surgery six days later and began treatment as soon as I was well enough. Total time off work..4 months. Completely cured. Cost out of my pocket..nothing. Total paperwork...one form.
What is would have cost me if I was in the US...well over $500,000.
The number one cause for bankruptcies in the US is medical bills.
Give your head a shake...
Are my income taxes higher than yours? Yes. But lets compare apples to apples
My sister lives in NY now. She pays $600 per month for health insurance. We both make about $60k per year. I paid 11k in taxes she paid 8k. My property taxes were 2200..her's 4800. I have no caps, no HMO to deal with, no list of doctors I must use...no co-pays..and our wait times (contrary to the insurance company propaganda) is about the same.
Canadians live longer than Americans, so there must not be too much wrong with our system and in the long run it costs us a LOT less. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/11/2008 9:19:10 PM | | Yeah the canadian system is ok, but you get what you pay for. It may have worked out good for kirk, but he would have had the same or better care in the US with private insurance. The only time My familly needed the Canadian medicare system it weas not there for us. We were told their was no treatment. We paid cash went to seattle and got the treatment done. If you want government rationed healthcare like we have in Canada, be warned your quality will suffer greatly. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/11/2008 10:13:09 PM | ^^^^ funny, the canadian doctors i hang out with in the summer don't have the same opinions but they do say that sometimes people have to wait for care and they choose to do something different. they have also told me that people aren't losing everything they've ever owned because of catastrophic illness.... how much effect has that had on our society....
... i've seen people in the ER who were as worried about how they were going to pay for the bill as much as they were about their child that was being treated... or watch a womans children watch her bloat on her own fluids until she died because her insurance denied her claim and she couldn't have a liver transplant.....it is heart wrenching to see such things and will give you a different perspective on universal coverage..... | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/11/2008 11:29:34 PM | The results of dozens of peer reviewed studies on the effect of public healthcare, the reality that americans pay more for their healthcare per capita and get poorer results than most european countries and Canada...
all meaningless, because somebody found a youtube video.
Give me a break.
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/12/2008 6:07:56 AM | kirk1965, good points and thanks for the answer. I'm not sure, though, that that access is true in every country as it is in Canada, it's not in France. I think most would just stabilize a person in an emergency and that's it.
Anyway, it seems to me that if taxes are higher because of it, that means that here in the US we pay a lower tax AND health insurance premiums. Mine for a family plan are about $1,200 a month and I pay 20% of it out of pocket.... so if you total that with the taxes I pay, I'll bet its less that what I would pay in taxes in Canada.
A nice thing about that is if one has high insurance costs, and they keep going up and up, a single payer system spreads that out over everyone.
Since Canada's cost per capita is about half of the United States, I would say that everyone benefits from it. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/12/2008 2:00:11 PM | .
Now there is a thought.
We can just ship all our illegal aliens sucking our health care dry up to canada then we can see how long they will brag about how cheap their health care is
I love it when people put down utube... utube rocks and those that put it down ususally do so because the info within alwqays goes against them and shows them to be wrong. to bad so sad!
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/12/2008 5:58:51 PM |
A nice thing about that is if one has high insurance costs, and they keep going up and up, a single payer system spreads that out over everyone.
...not to mention that you won't get denied because of a prior condition... which was the reason the insurance company that denied the liver to the lady i watched bloat gave for denial..... | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/12/2008 6:35:05 PM | Yes i do think that universal health care would be good for America.
I was born and raised Canadian. Canada's health care system seemed to work good to me. I don't really understand why Americans are so against it.
To me i think it would be a reliefe to be able to go see a docter without having to worry about selling the house inorder to pay for it. There is lots of people in America that don't get proper health care because they do not have the money to pay for it. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/12/2008 6:47:17 PM | Universal health care is wonderful provided the infrastructure is there. Your idiot senate wants to make it happen yesterday for kids. Sorry, socialism requires infrastructure, and lots of it.
What your country should be doing - and I've said this a million times - is crack down on those crooked health insurance companies. They're given far too much leeway to deny coverage and it has to stop. Otherwise, what the hell are you paying for?
Now, regarding wait times and whatnot, the U.S. is on par with Canada; you're neither better nor worse, and the insurance companies are lucky they don't get called on it. However, if your insurance companies were given a hefty kick in the ass, your healthcare would indeed be world class. Instead, if I'm not mistaken, you're somewhere in the 40's. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/12/2008 6:50:27 PM | | And just WHO do you all think is going to PAY for the Universal Healthcare???? We are ALL going to be paying for other peoples Healthcare so it's not going to be FREE for some of us. I am totally against a Socialized society with Socialized Healthcare.. you think our Healthcare is bad now.. just wait. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/12/2008 6:58:47 PM | "I am totally against Socialized Healthcare run by the Government.. and this coming from a Medical Professional."
Well, you're really just saying the same thing twice. "Medical professionals" tried their damndest to prevent health care from happening way back when T.C. Douglas was trying to make it happen. It's no surprise they're still trying to protect their big fat piece of the pie. It's called "screwing the little guy." | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/12/2008 7:08:33 PM |
What your country should be doing - and I've said this a million times - is crack down on those crooked health insurance companies. They're given far too much leeway to deny coverage and it has to stop. Otherwise, what the hell are you paying for?
However, if your insurance companies were given a hefty kick in the ass, your healthcare would indeed be world class. Instead, if I'm not mistaken, you're somewhere in the 40's.
I couldnt agree more with this!
Insurance should be regulated. When I was a child back in ancient times health care did not break the bank and my father was the sole supporter of the family.
Then the government got involved.
Since they are involved and we are stuck with insurance and ludicrious bills and can no longer just pay out of pocket like my father did, then we need to both regulate insurance providers and also disallow previous conditions to change the price tag etc.
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/12/2008 7:24:53 PM | | NwMike, if the government werent involved, you can bet your ass you'd pay through your nose and lose every nickel you have. I'm not sure what makes you think the medical establishment is so benign and the government so evil, but.........whatevah, dude. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/12/2008 7:39:11 PM | Well, you're really just saying the same thing twice. "Medical professionals" tried their damndest to prevent health care from happening way back when T.C. Douglas was trying to make it happen. It's no surprise they're still trying to protect their big fat piece of the pie. It's called "screwing the little guy." Actually not too many people are making billions of dollars in the Medial field with the cost of Malpractice insurance..someone is making money.. perhaps it's the Attorneys who sue for malpractice? You can get excellent healthcare in America for a price.. remember that Surgeon, Internal Medicine, Oncology..etc..etc...physician has to cover his butt due to protection from lawsuits, frivilous or not. Also remember that medical practitioners do not get paid in full by Medicaid patients..someone else is picking up the slack and that would be us. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/12/2008 9:42:55 PM | "Also remember that medical practitioners do not get paid in full by Medicaid patients..someone else is picking up the slack and that would be us."
Congratulations on your iron-clad grasp of the blindingly obvious!! You can file that one under "Duh!"
That's how 'socialized medicine' works. Those who CAN afford it help to cover those who can't. Get it? Which part of that did you have trouble with?
I realize that so many people much prefer the good old "If they can't afford it, f*ck 'em" type of medical "care." but the more developed countries seem to feel that protecting the more vulnerable members of society (remember that word 'society'?) is a worthwhile undertaking.
Really quite sad to see so much of the "Me first" attitude manifesting itself on some of these forums. It goes a long way to explaining the trouble that the U.S. finds itself in these days. A complete loss of any sort of moral compass. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/12/2008 9:47:23 PM |
And just WHO do you all think is going to PAY for the Universal Healthcare???? We are ALL going to be paying for other peoples Healthcare so it's not going to be FREE for some of us. I am totally against a Socialized society with Socialized Healthcare.. you think our Healthcare is bad now.. just wait.
.... i will and when your cervical cancer kicks in we'll all just say "best of luck to you glam".... | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/12/2008 10:21:17 PM | If you contracted cervicle cancer in canada it will be free as long as you can live long enough to get treatment. lol Thats about the gist of the system.
Canada's medical system is cheaper per capita although it has been documented that this is related mostly due to illegal immigrants in the US getting free healthcare through free emergency room visits. The other problem in the US as far as I can see is tort laws inflate costs.
The Canadian system works ok for Canada if implemented in the US the states would be broke within five years. Try to imagine paying for two iraq wars perpetually. Additionally this would be the final nail in the coffin in regards to the US being a super power. All hail China | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/12/2008 11:18:03 PM |
And just WHO do you all think is going to PAY for the Universal Healthcare???? We are ALL going to be paying for other peoples Healthcare so it's not going to be FREE for some of us.
First of all, our health care isn't FREE.  We do pay for it in taxes, you know.
Second of all, if you are in an HMO right now , you are STILL paying for other peoples health care, you are part of a large group of people paying premiums - and some of them get sick, you know ?
Canada's concept is to just make one MASSIVE group, for basic health care coverage. The mass is greater, so it's more balanced, and doesn't feature thousands of people doing the same job at the same time, for various private firms.
Nor do we consider it a "profit center", which I think is also a good idea. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/13/2008 12:22:29 AM | .
Another problem is why should healthy me pay for anyone elses freaking health care? In my family ya live till your 80 - 90++ and drop dead. Now I am supposed to pay in for 70 years of my life for everyone else?
Most federal taxes in this country are not mandatory and many people know this, getting a universal health care package set up in this country would force taxes on those who otherwise did not need to pay. Thankfully they are voters too.
Listen to the vids in the op and look how the feds dont give a rats ass about the states as it is, look at all the hospitals going bankrupt and people really think we should authorize them to collect for UHC? Shit, instead of leaving the boarders open they would start free touring trips and start boating people in, at tax payer expense of course.
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/13/2008 1:27:00 AM |
And just WHO do you all think is going to PAY for the Universal Healthcare???? We are ALL going to be paying for other peoples Healthcare so it's not going to be FREE for some of us. I am totally against a Socialized society with Socialized Healthcare.. you think our Healthcare is bad now.. just wait.
This all boils down to a simple moral question that everyone has to answer for themselves. This person above has answered it....selfishly, but she's answered it. The question is simply this: do you believe that a fellow human being had a fundamental right to medical care if they're sick or injured regardless of whether they can pay for it? Yes. Or no. Let's just start out on that one and let's also see how "christian" everyone is. Go for it. But stick to just that one question. This isn't a deli so please, no red herrings. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/13/2008 5:33:41 AM |
The question is simply this: do you believe that a fellow human being had a fundamental right to medical care if they're sick or injured regardless of whether they can pay for it? Yes. Or no.
No not any more than they have the fundamental right to be fed, or clothed, or housed, or given a new tv.
They do have the right to provide for themselves. Maybe if we the ones who have to foot the bill have the fundamental right to stop them from producing, migrating and if we have the fundamental right to put them to work to offset the costs of our tax bills then sure we can give them the fundamental right to free health care and a new tv set.
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