| Divorcing a sociopath
Posted: 6/14/2008 11:06:08 AM | I've come to believe my ex is a sociopath,
Our divorce has been going on for 3 years, and it would take a novel to communicate what he has done/is doing. Over the court of the last couple of years, the "wheels seem to be coming off the bus" and his behaviour is becoming increasingly surreal. We have 3 children, aged 7, 10, and 13 with joint custody - he sees them every second weekend and half the summer. Last week we were in court to delineate some of the points, and to deal with him refusing to consent to our kids passport applications. He swore in an affadavit that he did not do this; also included the fact that he had called and asked me if he could take the children to their grandfather's funeral despite the fact that until the day before court I didn't even know he has passed away. Then, after court he scooped our children from school despite the fact it wasn't on the sked. When I called him about it on his cell, he said "Stop yelling at me," making sure he used my name. I was confused - what? Didn't say anything -- then he said again louder, "Name, stop yelling at me. The kids are here now and are witness to the fact you are yelling at me."
Anyway, there's ample evidence this man has some mental issues. (He's reported me for child abuse to Social Services last fall) and again last week to the police. Each time is proved groundless. He tells the children that I abused his daughter from his first marriage. He will not stop.
My lawyer says sole custody is almost never granted, and I don't have a chance. I don't even know that that would help anything. I want to instigate some psych assessments, I'll do it too ... I worry he is poisoning our children and exposing them to all manner of mental manipulations. I just want to do some damage control and don't know how. Ex is very controlling, and he cannot stand that I have not agreed to each of his demands, just to keep the peace as I had done when we were married. I limit my contact to him to a minimum as a result, yet he will send me emails continually attacking my character, then will send me and his office emails that I am not allowed to contact him, when in fact I am not.
Help! Any advice/feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks. | |
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| Divorcing a sociopath
Posted: 6/14/2008 11:40:10 AM | That's too bad that he's making things difficult. Can you ask your lawyer about full custody at least? How does your kids feel about this? I think to get sole custody, you'd have to prove how unfit and unstable he is.
Perhaps ask the police if you can file a report againsthim for false accusations?
Perhaps when he picks up the kids, see if you can have a friend over to be a witness if he lies and accuse you of harrasing him.
Im sure your kids feel stuck in this situation and don't know who to beleve. Has he always behaved this way or just recentlly? I think you just need to assure your kids that you love them, and you want what's best for them and that you try to make things friendly with their dad and try to avoid fights. | |
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| Divorcing a sociopath
Posted: 6/14/2008 12:02:57 PM | Here in Alberta, there's sole custody or joint custody (meaning 50/50) but I am the custodial parent.
In sole custody, he still has access to the children. The custodial parent just have more control over decisions regarding the children and can't be blocked by him in trying to do something like taking the kids to Disneyland.
The kids are torn; the oldest doesn't repeat anything to me his father says but the two youngest do. I think it is causing our middle child, who is particularly vulnerable, considerable emotional anguish.
I've talked to the police about his harassment; unless he is doing something on a daily basis it isn't considered harassment.
Exchange of the children is usually not a problem.
What I am concerned about is the children, and the ongoing venom he spews about me being a child abuser every time they go there.
For three years I have taken the high road and not engaged with him. His response is to turn up the volume. He has made it impossible for me to have any type of communication with him. I do not badmouth their father and have never done. But lately I am having to defend myself, ie "No I did not give your half-sister a black eye."
"No I did not tell your father that you can't go to grampa's funeral and he didn't ask me."
Nothing so far has been able to turn this around. I cannot allow my children to be subjected to this for another 5-10 years. He will use them as pawns to get at me. He will not stop. | |
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| Divorcing a sociopath
Posted: 6/14/2008 12:35:37 PM | OP the thing is that a lot of times this behavior doesn't just occur. There are often glipses of it from the onset of the relationship which are less magnified. It is when a major catastrophe occurs within the relationship like divorce when those things become more apparent. I'd also think that there is something odd about a divorce taking three years unless one spouse or the other wasn't with it. In the US I think a year is a standard waiting period. Also alot of times one person in the relationship is typically more passive agressive with their behavior. From what you say in the post I'd say your spouse would not be considered the passive agressive type rather more of the less passive aggressive type. Possible hot head from what you suggest. It is not to say that implies you are the passive agressor but I'd allow him some space.
If it has taken this long for a divorce I'd say the relationship is where it should be in court. Because you as a couple don't seem to be able to manage your relationship without court orders and a way to reinforce what you have agreed to as a couple. I'd say since you are already going for a divorce you may want to get organization with the custody issue you say you are having to. | |
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| Divorcing a sociopath
Posted: 6/14/2008 1:19:43 PM | Welcome to the practise that many woman having been utilizing for years.
Try having to deal with false accusations and then innuendoes to avoid legal repercussions as they have been legally instructed in respect to the one free pass rule.
Document everything that occurs.
Get a digital recording device and start using it with all telephone calls. And to insure your protection you carry it with you at all times.
Look for a book named Divorce Poison by a Dr. Richard Warshak who explains how a parent can minimize the effectiveness of hostile or aggressive parenting.
On the other side he sees his children how often?
Every other weekend for ten months? Friday and Saturday night?
40 days? i.e. 4 days a month x 10 months
as opposed to your 280 days? i.e. 28 remaining days x 10 months
but you share your summer holidays 50/50
But then different people have different agendas in respect to what defines reasonable access...........Can I ask if your reasons for not allowing 50/50 is cs?
If I was the non custodial parent I would be pretty upset seeing my children 15% of the month. But then there are those who can justify that with themselves? | |
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| Divorcing a sociopath
Posted: 6/14/2008 1:29:18 PM | Westpark, Ithink she wants sole custody due to his behavior towards her and the kids.
Perhaps Op, he's trying to get sole custody hence making all these accusations. Find out if it's legal to record phone conversations.
Have you thought of counseling for the kids. If he's making accusations about child abuse, why not get your kids together and go over what he's accusing you of? like the black eye, ask your daughter did you get a black eye from me? ask your kids have you ever abused them in any way, then I'd tell them that you don't know why he's talking about stuff I don't do but you guys know me, and if you have any doubts go to the resource not the messenger since things can get miscommunicated. perhaps play a game of phone, forgot the nam e of it, but you whisper in your kids ear about something and they have to report it to the next person, and usually it's not what the original person says.
get the reports of accusing you of child abuse and so forth, document everything. | |
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| Divorcing a sociopath
Posted: 6/14/2008 1:51:55 PM | I've been documenting for three years; and am beginning to think it is futile.
I am not trying to keep them from their father. The access is as he has asked. He picks them up Fridays at school (or Thursdays a couple of times a month when school is off Fridays) and has them to Sunday night at 7 p.m. I pick them up from him. The only point of access we could not agree on was some floater time I offered him. I had offered floater time on one of my Saturdays every month. He wanted to chose the Saturday (without asking me) and wanted 10 a.m. until 8 p.m.; I tried to negotiate two terms -- we choose a Saturday, perhaps a month in advance, that would be agreeable to both of us and that it be a seven hour chunk, not the entire day. After all, giving up part of a Saturday meant that for me it leaves me with one weekend a month to go away for the weekend, etc. He refused. So I offered weeknights after school , his choice. Not interested.
Do not lump me in with useless parents who try to block access for no reason than to hurt the other parent. And keep in mind that for the custodial parent, it's not all fun and games. My weeknights with three children is usually all work -- supper, homework, any sports running to and fro and then bed. Weekends are precious to me for the same reasons they are to him. However, I can appreciate the NCP's feelings -- it would be very difficult for me to see my kids once every two weeks.
If I was to seek sole custody and receive it, their father would still be able to see the children same as they are now. The only potential benefit is that he would have less avenues for limiting me just for the sake of causing trouble (ie refusing to consent to passports).
Further, in my situation: I make about $25,000 a year; their father makes $125,000. Yet since Sept. he hasn't paid a dime toward ballet, football for both boys, and other costs such as this. He defaulted on 80 per cent of his child care last month.
I've never attempted to block his access, other than the Saturday as described above.
What I'm looking for here is some suggestions from someone who may have had custody issues with this type of person as I am seeking to mitigate the damages to my children, and not restrict their access to their father.
Thank you for the book suggestion, I will follow up. | |
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| Divorcing a sociopath
Posted: 6/14/2008 3:15:48 PM | Hi
I have an Opinion on this .. and it won't be the same as everyone else's, but you asked for opinions - so i will give you mine as best i can.
I was/am in exactly the same situation as yourself, my husband and i are seperated and have been for over 2yrs now, it has been a very rough seperation and it culminated in me taking serious action a few weeks ago when he put an advert in the paper where we used to live slating me. I wa never a mother / woman that condoned restricting access - i had always pushed him to have our son as often as possible but that always caused the argument about how i was only doing it so that i could go out and get drunk and party ( wtf ?? ) nothing to do with the fact our son missed his dad and wanted to see him...
So i have made the decision to stop our son from seeing his dad, i know everyone will disagree with this but i have to take the decision as to what is best for my son, do i let him stay with his dad who is prepared to go to such lengths to put me down like that in public, if he does that in public what does he do in his home with him..?? he never rings, and never contributes towards him - he leaves our son deeply upset and hurt and i have to take all of that into consideration. He has'nt even argued the case to see him, just said "ok" when i told him, so to me it says it all.
I can't say what i did was an easy decision, i cried over it and what it could mean to me and my son, but i know that what i did was necessary - it gives my son a chance to get back on track and him a chance to try and sort himself out . It's not an easy decision to take, but i feel this is all you have left open to you as an option as you seem to have done everything else.
Hope things work out for you .Good Luck. | |
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| Divorcing a sociopath
Posted: 6/14/2008 4:58:20 PM | ^^^^^I don't know how you have managed to cut your X out of your son's life but it doesn't sound like the OP's X would allow that and in most jurisdictions, unless you can prove a parent is unfit, like a total crackhead or something else totally ridiculous, they will not terminate parental rights and you are lucky if you can get supervised visitation. You could even lose the kids in reversing the contempt of court.
Documentation is not futile. When I went into court to get custody of my stepson I had a 2" thick stack of papers, two school officials and my X and myself. His mother had a sheet of notebook paper, her SO did not attend the hearing, and she had no clue about simple timelines or anything else. Courts are impressed by people that do their homework and if you have things on tape, it is a bit more difficult for Mr. Personality to play the innocent victim.
You need to document every single thing that he does. You need to record every single conversation, get one of those hand-held recorders from Wal-Mart, they are like $20. That not only gets his crazy shit on tape, it ensures that he cannot truthfully tell the court you yelled at him on the phone, the kids are witnesses, because you have an actual recording that he is lying.
Your lawyer should be able to ask the court for psych evaluations of your X and the children but be prepared, you are going to need to undergo them as well. The only thing you can do is control yourself and try to mitigate things with the kids. Outside of proper documentation and recording, I can't see where you can do anything else until the court-ordered psych evaluation. | |
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| Divorcing a sociopath
Posted: 6/14/2008 7:46:39 PM | I feel for you if he is really a sociopath. From the sounds of things you may want to check out what a narcissist is as well. Either one by themselves are very dangerous and when the two are mixed it can be a very hard situation to deal with. The powers these people possess are not understood by those who have not been in a situation where they have become their prey. Once they have enclosed you within their circle it is very hard to get out. Rejection is something that sets them off. They can cause a lot of damage with their powers of minipulation. Think of people like Jim Jones, Charles Manson, David Korech, etc. They have the ability to coerce people into doing and believing just about anything they want. They have an ability to skate along the edge of the law and are very difficult to do anything with from that aspect.
These people are the primary culprits of Parental Alienation. If you would like to know more about what you are dealing with please feel free to contact me outside of this thread. Somethings are best left unsaid in a public forum such as this. Either way, I wish you the best and encourage you to continue documenting, seeking answers and watching out for your kids.
Kenny | |
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| Divorcing a sociopath
Posted: 6/14/2008 8:45:11 PM | he sounds like a piece of work lassie!.. think ur ex & mine could be related!..  ..
as far as ur ex exposing ur children 2 his mental probs.. y not have it court ordered 2 have him assessed?.. i mean if u can prove that ur kids could possibly get hurt by their father..
and as 4 the emails he sends u.. keep them.. its evidence that he`s mentally unstable & the children aren`t safe in his care.. oh & the next time u call him either on his land line or cell fone.. record it.. u may not be able 2 use it in court (depending on where u live).. but its not written in stone that u can`t write (date & time) word 4 word that he says 2 u.. just remember (& 2 be sure that 4 sure ur kids r around.. don`t want 2 be accused of them not being there) 2 let ur legal documents know ur kids were present..
i went threw something similiar 2 what ur going threw now a few yrs back.. my ex had custody of our 2 children.. everything ur ex is doing now is what my ex did back then.. drove me right up the wall!.. on the advice of my lawyer.. i had 2 document everything my ex said, done, written, or other 2 me & in front of our children.. it got very tiring.. but i stuck it out & 4 nearly 3 yrs i fought that man w/everything i had inside`ve me!.. in the end his games fizzled out & he got tired of playing them (he had no idea how strong i was & that i never once backed down from everything he had thrown my way).. on dec.8/2004, i had won custody of my 2 children.. the battle i had endured was worth it!.. my had had contact w/our children 4 over a yr.. then he 'decided' that he didn`t want 2 be apart of their lives any longer & removed himself out of their lives.. that was 2 yrs ago..
my children think & miss him every day of their lives & often ask about him.. but in the end i think & feel their both better off w/o him as he was mentally unstable..
when my children come 2 me & say 'i wish i had a dad'.. i tell them 'u do!.. me!'..  .. i often remind them that his love 4 them has never stopped & it will never stop.. i think that brings them some comfort..
and lassie.. i`m sure ur kids will get tired of their dad`s antics 1 day & decide 2 let him know 'enuff is enuff!'.. just be there 4 ur kids as a sounding board when they do get tired of their father`s ranting..  .. | |
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| Divorcing a sociopath
Posted: 6/14/2008 9:42:54 PM | It might help to separate his behavior that relates to the divorce or trying to control you from his other behavior. If he is only "sociopathic" with regard to his attempts to control you or control access to his children then he might just be someone who really "hates to loose," is a right-fighter, or is unable to see a woman as an equal (or he does, but his pride can't admit it.)
Some of what he is doing might have been things suggested to him as ways around the court system. Anyone can learn these techniques. Just as you are learning from posters here to keep records and tape recordings, he is using one-sided conversations on a cell phone to mislead his children. Putting them in the middle is never right, but he might see them as what makes the stakes higher. The higher the stakes (access to his children, and his money, and his posessions) the worse behaviors sometimes seem justified. Just as some women leave town with their children to avoid an abusive man, some men will do all kinds of things they normally wouldn't because emotions run higher about one's children.
You haven't said much about what he has done, and in a public forum that is certainly justified. So far it seems to be mainly lying, and dragging things out to 3 years in the courts. You don't say if he is addicted to anything, is physically abusive or is breaking the law in any obvious way. If not, he is just being emotionally abusive, by putting the kids in the middle of a bunch of lies or exaggerations and drama.
I would say that it is very important to try not to listen to what the kids tell you. Don't worry so much about what they think. It doesn't help to make their future emotions one more item on the table, so to speak.
By taking the higher road, you might have things more difficult, but you shouldn't let him force you into going the same route he is. Then not only has he done all this to you, he has also taken away your dignity also.
I know that you are used to doing things with the court system so far, but sometimes the only ones to truly benefit from this are the lawyers, not you, or the children. He is using a tactic of draining you by dragging things out. But in the end, there are less resources for the children because both of you require lawyers so much. The lawyers have made it so that once you are used to using their way of doing things, you can't easily do it any other way because the mutual animosity is so high after the first go-round.
I know this might sound ridiculous, but there is an off chance this might help. Research how to mediate your divorce, and read up on assertiveness. He is obviously being aggressive and manipulative. It might be the only way he knows how to negotiate (i.e., get them before they get you, mentality), and you might have been, at least up until now, too agreeable, in other words, you aquiece to keep the peace. There is a third way, which is assertiveness.
For example, perhaps during your marriage, he figured out that your currency in the relationship was peace, so he learned to break the peace to get what he wants because you gave in initially just for some peace.
But assertiveness is just as civil and dignified, but it is firm and can be very effectual. By being assertive, rather than compromising, (although some compromise can be a part of it) you can model a better and cheaper way of negotiating. And even if he doesn't change his style, you can change yours. You can only change yourself. But sometimes as you change, other things fall into place.
With someone who is controlling, telling them you want Saturdays from 10 to noon, almost guarrantees that he is going to absolutely have to have them Saturdays from 10 to noon for some VERY important reason (that he just thought of.)
This doesn't mean that you have to hide your agenda from him, just de-emphasise it. You need to let him save face. Particularly in front of lawyers and other authority figures, or men in general. Find ways to negotiate that don't work that way.
For instance, you might need a certain day of the week but you let him pick the times and days first. There is every chance that he will pick a day that works for you, unless you have already told him somehow. (This might be too late for you, now.)
If the day doesn't work, by chance, you can try to go with it in front of the lawyers, but later, predictably, he changes his mind and the days change, and before you know it, you might have the day you want down the road, simply because he really could care less about a certain day (until you said something about it mattering to YOU.)
This takes the emphasis off of who gets what in terms of posturing, and puts it more into what's best for the children, because you take the emphasis off of what works for you, and that is all he might care about--is obstructing you.
This is just one example, but there are many more ideas in "Getting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In" by Roger Fisher, William L. Ury and
"Getting Past No" by William Ury
If his "currency" is money, then to get him to negotiate in a different way than you have been doing, (which isn't working very well for either of you, by the way) emphasize that this is a much cheaper way of doing things, and if it doesn't work, you can always go back to using the courts again.
Get a sitter for the kids. Meet in a neutral place. We would meet in a quiet room in the public library (you can get some that are almost sound-proofed for people studying.) Each of you bring on paper what you want to discuss. Set some rules, like set a time limit of one hour, or a half-hour if you can't do an hour. Have the ground rule set that if either of you gets out of hand (even if you are very quiet, naturally, say this to make it "fair") you stop. Just simply get up and leave. I mentioned that it would have cost $300 to have both our lawyers present for the same amount of time. So anytime someone leaves and doesn't resolve something, it costs $300. Go over each point, one at a time, and remind yourselves how much you are saving when each point gets done without a lawyer. When you are done, you hand what's left that you couldn't resolve to the lawyers, if anything, and they write it up. This might take several meetings because it is so easy to get side-tracked.
If either of you doesn't show, you have lost nothing, just go home and try again another time.
The advantage of doing this is that the person used to doing manipulative things can't use the children or anyone else, for that matter, in the mixed up communication game. If its just you and him, there is no one else to impress, or coerce or manipulate or con. And you probably know all his tactics already, so you won't be misled by them. | |
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| Divorcing a sociopath
Posted: 6/15/2008 1:30:34 AM | Few times is any divorce “easy” or simple. Divorce bring all of our negative feeling out in the open with the one who is “we believe” the source of our pain, suffering and lost. People who goes thru divorce will behave in way that are unlike that which we may have seen in that person’s life. But after going thru the 7 stages of lost we begin to behave as we did before. Okay so why am I telling you this?
If your ex is indeed a sociopath (i.e. Personality Disorder) you would have witness strange behavior from that person over a long period of time and in fact which may be the very cause of this divorce.
**Sociopaths are "outstanding" members of society in two senses: politically, they command attention because of the inordinate amount of crime they commit, and psychologically, they elicit fascination because most of us cannot fathom the cold, detached way they repeatedly harm and manipulate others. Proximate explanations from behavior genetics, child development, personality theory, learning theory, and social psychology describe a complex interaction of genetic and physiological risk factors with demographic and micro-environmental variables that predispose a portion of the population to chronic antisocial behavior. Recent evolutionary and game theoretic models have tried to present an ultimate explanation of sociopathy as the expression of a frequency-dependent life history strategy which is selected, in dynamic equilibrium, in response to certain varying environmental circumstances. This target article tries to integrate the proximate, developmental models with the ultimate, evolutionary ones. Two developmentally different etiologies of sociopathy emerge from two different evolutionary mechanisms. Social strategies for minimizing the incidence of sociopathic behavior in modern society should consider the two different etiologies and the factors which contribute to them.
One way to be sure is to ask that both you and your ex (or soon to be) get tested for any personality issues such as anti-social tendency i.e. attributes. There are a battery of tests that deal with this issue in custody case as well as domestic and criminal cases. I should also like to suggest that maybe it would be a good ideal to have a therapies see your children as well. The emotional state of our children is that which is best for our children.
**Linda Mealey
Department of Psychology
College of St. Benedict
St. Joseph, MN 56374 | |
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| Divorcing a sociopath
Posted: 10/4/2008 9:42:41 AM | I know how you feel about the phone calls you experience! My ex has done the same thing, MANY times! When there is NO arguments happening during a phone call, all of a sudden they (for some weird reason) they will start yelling at you and blaming you about "whatever"! It comes out of nowhere......
What I think that is all about is that there is someone else that is listening to them talking on the phone (comes into the room), so they decide that NOW is a good time to PRETEND that you have said something to tick them off.....weird isn't it???
I would just start to laugh.....then hang up! Go ahead....keep yelling to a dead phone line, for the benefit of the other person listening to them :)
It's sick! VERY, very sick!
I put up with this behavior for years (no choice...he would be the one calling me). The other thing he would do is make fake phone calls to the FRO....this being done in front of his (next) ex! It took a couple of YEARS before I FINALLY had a chat with his ex.
He didn't want to pay child support, so for HER benefit, he made pretend calls, turned our phone calls into.....ummmm......whatever you want to call them :) Once her and I had a good talk (in person), she realized that he had been lying to HER about supposedly paying child support, ALL of this being done so that he wouldn't have to pay her his portion of the rent & bills! She kicked his sorry @ss to the curb :)
The lengths people will go to get out of responsibility!
Is he a sociopath? Probably.....but he's also a TOTAL alcoholic! He's really quite harmless (not physically violent), but is in desperate need of councelling!
Thank god his @ss is no where near me anymore, but, I do still get the pleasure of his ranting phone calls on occasion.
Who says life isn't interesting?
I look at his continuing behavior as a great way to remind ME to NOT jump into the arms of any old guy (just the RIGHT guy).... who needs that shi*t?
So if anyone is wondering WHY I'm so picky.........there's one of them :) | |
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| Divorcing a sociopath
Posted: 10/4/2008 10:41:10 AM | Well Lassie, your hands are sure full but there is light at the end of the tunnel.
It took me five years to get my divorce. The ex and his mother continue to bad mouth my family and myself. The threats continue but as you said, nothing can be done unless he makes the threats to my family directly or finally gets caught vandalizing the property.
Always remember children are a lot smarter than what people want to give them credit for.
Our children will return home from their father's and complain about the stories they are told; they say they know he is lying. It's too bad he behaves in that manner because he is just distancing the children from him. The children know what is going on.
Hang in there, I don't know about the Alberta courts, but where I'm from at age 12 children are able to decide if they want to continue seeing the other parent.
Just be sure to document everything. Keep positive for the children.
Check into getting a no-contact order (I have one) to make your home into a safe comfort zone for your children.
Remember you can't control what goes on at his house, but you can try to provide a safe haven for your children while they are with you. I don't bad mouth his family; they get enough of that when they are with their father.
We've been through the nasty phone calls, the surprise visits (we were kicked out of our home for almost a month) and the harassment. I was told that due to the no-contact order, if he touches any of the children again, he automatically looses them.
Good luck, and no matter how naughty your children may be somedays, always give them that hug and kiss at night. I continue to do so myself. You never know how much time you have left and I want the children to remember our good times together.
Good luck, keep your chin up and always have a smile for the children. | |
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| Divorcing a sociopath
Posted: 10/4/2008 2:47:29 PM | Best guess is to have the kids go to a shrink and discuss their feelings about their father and the relationship they have with him and what he does (as well as their relationship with you), and see what the impact is on their lives. In the end, that's really the only grounds the courts will consider, and you can at least try to restrict his visits to supervised visits only, etc.
document his behavior, contact him only through your attorney if possible, or by some other means that leaves a record of your contact (email, mail, etc.) don't allow him to contact you on the phone directly - let him go to voice mail, then call back if needed.
It sounds like he's trying to get your kids involved in the divorce - and have them take sides in the issues.
There's little you can do about him, but with enough evidence of his increasingly irrational behavior and its demonstrated impact on the children, you may be able to limit the damage he's able to do.
I have an ex that is the same way - she's been ordered by two different judges to mental evaluations. She also killed my dog (got charged with felony animal neglect, plead it down to a misdemeanor so she could leave the state), trashed the house (10 cubic yards of garbage was removed from the house and yard) and neglected our children.
For me to gain custody, it took 2 years of her antics, accusations, documentation and testimony from the children's teachers and principal and a report from a Guardian ad Litem and a psychiatrist who examined the kids (and started the evaluation on their mother) before the courts finally decided that she may not be good for them.
She still has supervised visits, but she no longer gets any say in how the children are raised.
It's a long road, and taking the high road is tough - you don't want to involve your kids directly, but you do have to let them know that the accusations that are flying around are a product of your ex's faulty logic processes, and not a reflection of reality...
Good luck | |
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| Divorcing a sociopath
Posted: 10/5/2008 4:47:32 PM | Mental illness.
Not only does it sound like he has one, but in your course of living with him and since, you have likely picked up some of his traits (its normal to do so) and also picked up a host of coping behaviors. Your kids have done so too.
Yes, you can train an old dog a new trick.
The trick(s) you need to learn are those for PROPERLY dealing with a person with this particular disorder. You can do it with self-help books or with a professional or with both. Learn the destructive tactics so you can avoid them. Learn the triggers so you can control them. And learn the constructive tactics so you can defuse any bad situation. And finally, teach your children, so they can see through the lies and distortions.
...Either that or you are the one with the mental illness and you are blaming him and projecting. And since us forum junkies only see one side of the story, we quickly hand you all the sympathy you could ever want.
Its a wonderful world, ain't it? | |
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| Divorcing a sociopath
Posted: 10/6/2008 6:59:54 AM | | Document everything. Report him to the courts weekly if he is not paying court ordered support. And keep in mind that YOU chose to have 3 children with this self diagnosed sociopath, and the judge is smart enough to see that. His behaviors sounds more like typical mid divorce BS to me not mental illness. | |
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| Divorcing a sociopath
Posted: 10/6/2008 3:59:13 PM | I don't have legal advice for you (although I hope you realize how important it is to get good legal advice!) but I can say that whatever you do to bring sanity and stability to your children's lives is very valuable. My feeling is that regardless of what the custody situation is, the important thing is that the children get to know both of their parents. My lawyer's wife is a psychologist and she is a big proponent of the children knowing their parents no matter what - because in the absence of real knowledge, children tend to idealize the absent parent - which from the sound of your ex - would be a double whammy for them.
My advice is to get as much support for yourself as you can and just keep loving those kids up as much as you can. | |
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| Divorcing a sociopath
Posted: 10/6/2008 4:35:40 PM | HI well sorry I do understand ,My 1st EX is /was a pshcyopath..It took a lot of prayers & 4 years after the divorce..But I did get sole custody...By keeping on him.I recored every conversation cell or otherwise,kept a log/record of everytime he went off the deep end,sent DCS for no reason, didn't send child support on time,dropped insurance..left her/my girl alone..or with someone else...had my daughter talk to me about what went on..Not tring to feed her per say for info just ask about her time with him...I would call at least once a day when he had her...But he was abusive to us both in many ways...he was arrested several times...finally it just got to a point where he gave her up ...basiclly......Just keep good records,record...we were in court every 3-4 month for about 5 years...but it did pay off in the end..I proved my point my case...And got an court ordered eval.. on him Plus anger management classes,did him no good but he did have to do them...anymore (?)..just email me... | |
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| Divorcing a sociopath
Posted: 10/6/2008 4:41:45 PM | Lassie, I told you not to marry my ex-wife's brother.
How I fixed things with my abuser.
1) No emails.
2) Do not answer the phone. Listen to the message on the voice mail and decide if you need to respond.
3) Communication is only in writing. Keep letters short; think post it note size. Only state the facts. Child A is going to the doctors at place X at time Y.
4) DO NOT RESPOND TO BAD BEHAVIOR. This is a big one. Do not respond at all or do him any favors if her treats you poorly.
5) Only respond to him if he treats you well.
6) Never ever deliver anything to the abuser. Politely mention if he wants something to come over to your house and you will leave the item on the doorstep.
7) Never bluff. State what you want and back it up. For example, my ex-wife refused to cooperate on a passport even after agreeing in the co-parenting therapist office. The day she stated she refused was the day I called my attorney.
8) Carry a visible tape recorder. My ex-wife used to yell at me in front of the child only when there were no witnesses. I got a tape recorder and simply held it in my hand. I didn't even turn the thing on but once she noticed I had one she stopped yelling.
It has taken me years but I have learned to deal with an abuser. The interesting thing I have learned is they think it is all your fault. | |
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| Divorcing a sociopath
Posted: 10/6/2008 5:48:57 PM | The laws in Canada are WAY different than they are here in the United States.
My last wife used to blow up my phone as many as 150 times in a single day.
Here's some steps I took (And I used them today when she attempted to call me and text me with her sillyness.)
And I'm not stepping on toes here, I definately agree with the last poster with several of his statements, but there's a few others.
ANY hang up calls associated with his number(s), document each and every phone call...time, date and duration...keep a running log. If there's crank/hang up calls, report them to the police every day and contact your phone company to advise them you are getting these types of calls.
Anytime that you use a recording device with phone calls, make damn well certain that some point during your conversation...especially if he or she is using profanities, abusive or threatening language that you advise him or her that they are being recorded. In the United States, you could potentially be charged and tried under federal wire tapping stautes...big problem. If you do advise them they are being recorded, you may be able to introduce this into evidence during court proceedings....voice mail is a given and can not be held against you in court in any way.
Definately ignore bad behavior! Many times he or she will back off and realize that they are doing something stupid and may actually leave you alone.
If you are exchanging hands with the children, do it in a neutral location...generally police station lobby's or their parking lots. This limits additional abuse you may have otherwise endured.
I have been married 4 times. 3 of the women I was married to were mentally defective in some way...either abusive and or mentally ill. It doesn't make me a bad guy, but it does make me an idiot for not realizing they were mentally defective sooner lol!
My current wife and I are splitting on good terms. She did state to me that she used me to get out of a bad marriage and knew over 4 years ago she didn't love me and had nothing in common with me, but couldn't tell me until several months ago. I didn't hold it against her and we have both moved on...peacefully. | |
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| Divorcing a sociopath
Posted: 10/7/2008 2:16:59 AM | I just came to the realization the my ex too is a sociopath..thankfully we were never married but when we first got together he wanted to get married right away (we had a child togehter and I didn't let him know about it for a year...long story) anyway when he found out about the baby he came to me and wanted to start dating...this was a year and a half ago and I should have just ran the other way at the beginning...ever since then he has just lied..cheated and stolen from me,,he does not finacially support his son and when I wanted him to take him for a day he would refuse yet all the time he would tell his family and friends I didn't let him see his son...this would go on everytime I broke up with him he is 24 and has 7 kids out there
Last year one of his ex's sued him for child support and he refused to pay saying he wasn't allowed to see his kid so why should he..the same line he always said about me..he used it for all his kids (I'm not allowed to see them) well this summer he ended up signing over all parental rights to her so he wouldn't have to pay child support
Everytime he came back to me it was to have a place to live..to use my car..to borrrow money..etc..yet claiming how much he loved and miss our son
Things got really nasty over the past month because we got back together and he had the nerve to ask me to get "unfixed" so he could have another baby!!! I refused and later I found out he had asked another girl the same thing!! He has since ran off to Quebec telling me he would be back in 4days (it's been 3wks) I broke up with him because I found out he was living with someone else
The point of all this is that everytime this happens he blames me and won't see his son and he has now started calling CFS on me because he says I suck as a mother and once he even called the cops on me because I ticked him of for something minor..he is on my phone plan and he even told me he would sign over all rights to his son to me if I didn't cancel his phone...this guys is mentally disturbed and the worst part is that I was starting to see myself as not sane because I couldn't believe that any human being would act like this!! he thinks the world of himself yet he has no job..no car and no home (I admit I should have seen the red flags but I convinced myself that he wasn't really like that)
Thank you for posting your story because I now know I am not alone in dealing with a psycho like him
As for your children..I know what it is like to want to keep their Father in their lives and thankfully my son is only two and wont remember him but I have older children and the pain they have seen him put me through has left then scarred and angry
I think the best thing to do is cut your losses and never look back...my loved ones have been telling me this for months ( HIS parents as well) you and your kids need peace of mind and no one will get it if he's still in the picture
GOOD LUCK!! | |
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