| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/14/2008 8:58:23 PM | June 11 of this year was a historic date. The government of Canada formally apologized to the Indians for it's policy in the genocide of the native population. Has this event changed your view of the legacy of poverty and disfunction that it has left behind?
In my view it was a big step for the government to take. I hope that it alleviates the systemic racial prejudice that has been ingrained in Canadian culture by making people more understanding of why things are the way they are today.
I hope that it doesn't end at just an apology. I would like to see full disclosure of who did what, to whom, and where the missing bodies are. I would like to see all the perpetrators brought to justice. I would like to see the churches lose all their wealth over this one.  | |
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| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/14/2008 9:39:46 PM | | SR - I knew this would be of interest to you, but if you read down to Bravo, for the conservatives.... you can get the scoop there. All days are historic by the way. It is just that some are more historic than others. | |
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| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/14/2008 11:50:25 PM | | The apology is way too late, and not freely given. The damage has been done and will never be undone. The results of what the First Nation people have been coping with is evident everywhere every day. Money and good wishes don't heal hearts, minds and bring back the dignity of a very proud people. Does anyone ask why they still are fighting treaties, reservations still exist and why they are still trying to settle land claims??? It's all about power and money.... | |
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| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/15/2008 7:29:54 AM | This apology basicly amounts to a little bit of responsibilty.......
Which in turn will give lawyers more ammo to spend another 50 yrs in court ....
Which in turn will perpetuate the battle for more yrs.......
Which in turn will generate more strife and dislike if not hatred.......
No one really wins here except the legal community.......as always.
History is history.......doubtfull any apology could ever correct the wrongs of yesteryear.....
I wonder if anything will ever change in my lifetime, doubtfull too. | |
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| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/15/2008 9:43:22 AM | Yep I reckon' an apology was in order, HOWEVER, today's government had nothin' to do with what a government did years ago. Did Harper take blame for the situation, 'cos in my opinion (and as opinions go they're like rectums, everyone has one and they all stink!) if he did it gives the First Nations People more ammunition for any and all future land claims or for that matter any claims for any monies they may think they deserve. May sound calious, but that was then, this is now.
Make the church pay, they did it, for years as a matter of fact not only to First Nations children!!!!!!!!! | |
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| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/15/2008 5:04:44 PM | "Oh Canada,
....our home on Native land..."
hahahahahaha.... 
All days are historic by the way. It is just that some are more historic than others.
Xavery, thanks for pointing that out. You are one heck of a brilliant teacher. Trust you to miss the whole significance of the apology, just as you don't get that the Indians were right all along and our Canadian government and YOUR church are wrong, wrong, wrong.
Oh well, one day it may sink in. | |
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| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/15/2008 5:25:55 PM | Sure they're wrong. Sure, sure, sure, I agree, down with the church, down with the government. But what I'm really not getting on board with is- WHEN MAY I CEASE PAYING RESTITUTION FOR THE SINS OF MY FOREFATHERS?
Call it apathy. | |
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| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/15/2008 5:40:53 PM | SR - I actually am glad the government apologized formally to the First Nations People. I understand that they were incredibly wronged and that because of Residential Schools they lost ... so much, their language, relatives, history... and so on.
I get it.
It is not my church. My issue with a few First Nations people and their appointed white leader was that they barged into a church service at one of the most sacred times of the year - Easter.
I am pretty F...ing brilliant as you pointed out, SR. What about you? | |
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| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/15/2008 5:50:00 PM | And foreigners barged into Canada long ago and took what didn't belong to them... so your point is the poor little Bunny went without chocolate again...
Can see Xavery that you lost the gist of what the whole apology was supposed to represent. Easter is the least of the worries that people have to deal with, their lives happen every day not just during Spring time... | |
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| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/15/2008 7:01:58 PM | | It was government policies that allowed several churches to run residential schools on government funding. It is not just "the Church" that is responsible but rather several different churches. I remember being hit with a ruler by a teacher in public school in elementary school before corporal punishment was abolished in the public school system in BC which was nothing like what people in the Residential Schools endured being boarded away from their families, communities and everything familiar to them and not being allowed to speak their language or practice their own spiritual beleifs and having their names changed to wipe out their identities. The abuses that happened to First Nations children in Residential schools were horrible and the intergenerational trauma that many of their descendants are experiencing today as a result, are a collective responsibility as they are part of our collective history as Canadians and we have to acknowledge what was done and move foreward rather than get hung up on what the collective we might be willing to give back to the people that the collective we took from them. Personally, I think that an apology is a good beginning. | |
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| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/15/2008 7:15:44 PM | My daughter and I were discussing what "apologizing", saying your sorry really means On Friday night. We often have long talks about many things and during these discussions have learned a lot about myself . I have several children and it is really quite revealing to how they each have a different perspective on what "saying sorry" really means.
I was trying to tell her that if one is really sorry and sincere in their apologies, that sometimes people will feel/see/sense that one is really sorry. It all depends on how compassionate and caring that person is in all their actions, not just one particular instance. What I have usually found is that when I am truly sorry for any hurts/harm that I have caused, the people I have hurt come to believe that I am sincere and we have a better relationship because of this. I truthfully try not to hurt people, but know that I have and this has caused and still causes me pain, but nothing compared to the pain that I have caused.
I think Harper apologizing is just a political ploy to enamor him to the voters; I don't see him as a person with much compassion (if any) for others who have suffered and are still suffering. These words need to be put into action that really show he is sincere in making amends. But I don't think this is going to happen; it would take too much money and time.
A friend was discussing with me when I asked how so many wrongs done to so many and for so many generations, that there are still people who will still side with the ruling parties that perpetuate to this day these wrongs, regardless of the evidence that it did indeed occur? Her reply, it's in their genes, there is such a thing as a compassionateless gene; there are people who are incapable of understanding and seeing the harm they have done and their future progeny will also believe the same thing. There is much written about this. People in power seem to lack this basic understanding of compassion and atonement.
For any who have not walked/lived in native people's shoes and experienced their pain and suffering, we cannot make sweeping claims as to what they deserve and merit. Too many people are just too happy to not acknowledge what has been done and it disturbs me to see so many say "what happened in the past is not our fault and we shouldn't be held accountable." If we don't acknowledge this horrible past, and make amends (in all ways) now; to me it means that it is still ongoing and as long as one (or the government or corporation or church) can get away with it , then the "problem" does not get rectified. After all, isn't that what Christianity is all about?
Corinne | |
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| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/15/2008 7:41:58 PM | I was down at the Vancouver Friendship Center when the apology was projected over a large screen TV. CTV seemed to be more concerned about the fact that we were enjoying the sandwiches provided by the hosts then the actual event itself. How could they know how we felt about this very public apology, no one wanted to be interviewed.
I sat with other men and women at the Friendship Center and felt their pain. Some First Nations present were overwhelmed (these were the few that carried the pain of their parents who have passed on). There are no words to describe the anger and frustration for some residential school survivors who’s stories have still not been heard. For those that lived the residential School experience, the apology was acknowledged and heard. To accept it would mean to move on. What will they move on with?
There is much healing to be done with our people when it comes to the rebuilding of families as well as traditional languages. A lot of emphasis of the traditional way of being is exercised on traditional territories still negotiated by the majority of our people with the elected governments. In the meantime, there is a resurgence of language. Giving our voice meaning by learning our language is more urgent now then ever as some languages are becoming extinct. Language is a great predictor in realizing the depth and soul of people. The philosophy of a people is built into the language.
Personally, I’ve spent a couple of years in residential school and did not feel the impact of physical nor sexual abuse. I did however feel the impact of racism. I realized that when I entered your institutions, your facilities, my history is not my own but a stereotypical view of who you think I am or who I should be.
My issue with a few First Nations people and their appointed white leader was that they barged into a church service at one of the most sacred times of the year – Easter
I question how your virtue came about Zavery.
The church service was entered with respect, it wasn’t about breaking the statues and burning them like they ( your institutions) did with our people’s regailia and totems. The church was aware that this protest was going to happen. Their ‘white’ leader, as you put it was graced with respect by the people he led into the church.
Sacred? The point of the church protest was to bring to the media that these parents, sisters and brothers want those accountable for the missing children and to bring their broken bodies home where they deserve to be buried.
Sacred you say? Your anger Zavery is disproportionate or maybe the interpretation of it. It is not about the honour of your institution. Where is your attitude coming from and is it yours to carry?
Edit: Xavery, I did not see the procession into the church and making a statement to the ‘institution’ that was accountable as being wrong. It was done with integrity.
What was done without integrity is the genocide. Those children missing are still missing. Don’t give me that crap about respect for a church service. IF your child went missing 10 years ago and all signs drew you to the conclusion that your child is dead. How would you deal with it? Would you go on a rampage? That is how you equate the very action of the church protest. I think you need to seperate how you deal with issues from that of the protesters. Fact is, the protest was done with respect.
Oops double post
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Xavery
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Joined: 4/22/2007
Msg: 13 | |
| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/15/2008 7:42:17 PM | Chaps - The thing is the foreigners, our forefathers, barged into Canada long ago.
You think that I missed the gist of what the apology was meant to represent. Perhaps, it is because I am not in a time warp. These things happened in the past! We live in the present. Surely, it is unfair to make my life difficult just because there is a slim chance an ancestor of mine may have hurt you. I am not my ancestors. For this reason, I agree with JustIncredible.
I think it is wonderful the Canadian government apologized. I am sorry that some First Nations People feel the apology is not good enough. We can only be sorry so much. I believe First Nations people have been treated horribly by Europeans and their offspring.
I do, however, want to reiterate I am not my ancestors andt that not all European settlers abused First Nations people nor did all white people support young native children being educated in Residential Schools.
Chap - What exactly do you believe the apology represents? (I wasn't aware that it was meant to be symbolic.)
Wolves - I am very happy for you, and believe me, I am not your enemy. I am not a member of the Catholic Church either. My point was weeks ago when I wrote the church crashing thread is that I think it is wrong for one group to invade another group's sacred space.
I am not really angry - maybe, a little frustrated and yes it is my frustration to carry and work through and make peace with. You see, it is hard having to constantly apologize. If I am feeling it, chances are others are.
My virtue comes from speaking my truth. I am being sincere with you, Wolves, and I am sorry if you do not like it.
You asked about where my attitude is coming from and is it mine to carry. Who else would carry it? Yes, it is mine.
Since when was my named spelled with a Z? ............speaking of respect. | |
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| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/15/2008 9:39:14 PM |
Sure they're wrong. Sure, sure, sure, I agree, down with the church, down with the government. But what I'm really not getting on board with is- WHEN MAY I CEASE PAYING RESTITUTION FOR THE SINS OF MY FOREFATHERS?
With respect to restitution payments, whenever the government allocates funds or writes policy to support First Nations, Inuit or Metis it comes out of the pockets all tax payers - not just white people's. So it's not like you're being singled out here. The government has taken the position that previous policies have harmed many of the indigenous peoples of Canada in ways that still effect them today. Those who disagree with their approach to rectifying the situation are free to vote for a different party come election time. So I guess we will all stop paying when paying is no longer a politically advantageous policy for the party in power. | |
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| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/15/2008 9:42:52 PM | | Runs with Wolves - I think your statements have expressed what I have been trying to say. I agree with you on all counts. Think more people should read your words before they start disappearing off into the sunset with the "Oh well it happened " attitude. | |
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| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/15/2008 9:56:14 PM | ClutchCanuck83: What makes you think i'm white? Should it matter?
I don't think it will matter what government is in power. It's like Quebec, where there will never be a successful referendum because the people will never be able to adequately reflect the will of the party in power. | |
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| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/15/2008 10:32:33 PM | | johnny 7103: why don't you qualify your posts with some reasoning, instead of unintelligible commetary? I look forward to hearing your point of view. | |
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| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/16/2008 10:22:12 AM | I notice there is some question of having to accept on behalf of the government the apology that was rightfully given to our people by the wrongs committed. I could not begin to say that you need to accept this historical event. I will however ask you to hear a story of how a tree eventually grows strong.
My grandfather never went to residential school. He was abruptly pulled out a classroom the priests brought him to by his father. I have been fortunate in having been raised by my grandfather and honour his wisdom by sharing this story with you. . Allow this story to help you be compassionate to those survivors you might see in the downtown east end before you make a judgments and see my people through the wisdom and eyes of healing my grandfather eloquently spoke of.
My grandfather was asked to come in to speak to a number of students studying to be teachers at a local university. After being asked a number of questions about children and practices of parenthood, he was asked about children who have been violated sexually and physically. They asked about how one begins to heal. His reply was to look at the child like the growth of a young tree with strong foundations and nurturing environment. In its early life the young tree may have been broken with threads of connection to its roots for survival. The tree survives with a slight bend or break where it may have been impacted causing it to be weak. Over time, it begins to heal. Often the winds and the storms threaten it’s very existence causing it to bend almost to the point of falling because of its’ weak connection. The healing over the years n decades allows new growth to support the trees’ upright condition. The young tree grows tall and beautiful. Every time a significant storm happens, the connecting fibers protect the young tree from fracturing. It will survive. My grandfather asked the teachers to see themselves as the connecting fibers enabling the child to stand tall. He emphasized that the break or bend will scar and will always be there.
To be human is to live with humility not tolerance. Be those connecting fibers allowing people to live with dignity. Hear our stories and allow for the healing to begin. Be those connecting fibers.
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| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/16/2008 11:13:52 AM | Thank you for sharing your Grandfather's wisdom about the need to be those connecting fibers for the children who we meet. I will remember your story.
I went to a workshop a few years ago where the presenter talked to us as a group of service providers for youth about how tightly woven webs of service for youth that include their family and community as well as the people who are paid to be in their lives, are like Dreamcatchers, and if the threads in the Dreamcatchers are woven tightly enough, we can prevent our youth from falling through the cracks. It really does take a whole village to raise a child and I think that it is very important to keep on doing what we can and to never underestimate the power that we have to create change. Words of encouragement are remembered by people when they hear them. When we all work together we can make a difference. | |
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| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/16/2008 2:57:34 PM |
To be human is to live with humility not tolerance. Be those connecting fibers allowing people to live with dignity. Hear our stories and allow for the healing to begin. Be those connecting fibers.
Amen.  | |
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| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/18/2008 2:09:15 PM | An apology is a start as one of the first nations women I work with said to me when we spoke of it. She was a residential school survivor. When she heard the apology she cried.
As a mental health counsellor on a reserve in Victoria I have heard many sad and tragic stories.
I believe it will take several generations to correct what was done to the first nations people. What I believe we must remember is the aim was to assimilate the native people into the white culture. Yes it was done by the government and the church but it was individuals who were cruel and abusive. Individuals who were given permission because it was believed that there was something wrong, bad and awful for a race of people to have a different language culture and spiritual beliefs from our own. Like Hitler and the Holocaust. It is a time in our history that is not proud. It damaged families and individuals and decimated a proud culture. It is a terrible legacy especially for the children who were affected and for their children as well. I think much time, attention, money, love (agape) needs to be given to the First Nations people. The apology is only the first step. We need to learn and understand not only the experiences of the people who went to the residential schools but to also learn about the culture and walk among the native people with respect. There is much poverty and depression on the reserve where I work. There is also many people who are educated and hard working. They are working for better living conditions like enough adequate housing, enough food and better education system that supports learning for their children, better health care etc. If you want to know the whole story walk whith them for a while. | |
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| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/18/2008 3:55:08 PM | I wonder if the Canadian Government applied the same gusto in resolving Native Rights as they did in dismantling and dissolving them if perhaps we might see a better Canada.
We all shook our heads while watching that shit, knowing, just knowing that lives where stolen and pasts erased by the fist of religion and self proclaimed righteousness.
I as a Canadian want to see these issues resolved, not strewn upon the world like Canada's black eye.
When I say sorry to someone I mean it, it is a moment of humility that should not be taken lightly, one that should not be known without a handshake and a form of awakening.
I did not steal these People's way of life, but Canada did, and as I proclaim myself to be Canadian I will seek an answer that allows Peace, thereby ensuring my Future...
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| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/18/2008 4:57:55 PM | I couldn't have said it any better than Truthisee, so I won't try to.
Thanks for saying that Truth.
A.S.is
..and then I remembered a Powow I attended about 10 years ago in which the elders did a dance of forgiveness. I met humility that day. It was a changing weekend. People just need to get quiet and listen to each other ..
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Xavery
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Joined: 4/22/2007
Msg: 25 | |
| Canada formally apologizes to the Indians...
Posted: 6/18/2008 9:44:18 PM |
I did not steal these People's way of life, but Canada did, and as I proclaim myself to be Canadian I will seek an answer that allows Peace, thereby ensuring my Future...
Truth - With all do respect, you have taken a rather poetic appoach to this entire problem by more or less peronifying Canada as a thief. " I did not steal these People's way of life, but Canada did..." Is a country not its people? Without people there would be no countries. The other problem with what I have quoted is it shifts responsiblity from people to something quite amorphous.
I like what you said about a black eye and I too have come to a conclusion that we need to know more about what happened and the matters should be thoroughly investigated. We all have a right to know. | |
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