NERO1
| | Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 1 | |
| | Oklahoma City Bombing -- Conspiracy?? Page 1 of 1 | Your thoughts? Did you think there was anything more to it all? Or did (or do) you take OK City at pretty much face value?
What follows below is from this site, http://www.lewrockwell.com/yates/yates33.html (I'm not in agreement with much of what is found on the main page of this website, nor am I personally "endorsing" any one of the theories discussed below, for the record, but I think it's all still worth being looked at and this article here had been sent to me quite some time ago by a friend with whom I used to discuss possible OK City "conspiracies"...or lack thereof..... and I think it rather neatly sums up the more usual theories on OK City which one hears)...
The Oklahoma City Bombing:
A Morass of Unanswered Questions
by Steven Yates
It is official: for whatever reason, thousands of FBI documents related to the Oklahoma City bombing did not make it into the hands of Timothy McVeigh’s defense team. Some are calling for a full investigation into the FBI’s handling of what was their most important and visible criminal investigation of the last decade. As of this writing, McVeigh himself is toying with the idea of fighting his execution by the federal government, postponed by Attorney General John Ashcroft until June 11.
The question comes up: are the missing FBI documents the product of a foul-up of monumental proportions even for a government agency or the result of deliberate concealment? A lot of conspiracy theories have circulated around the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building on April 19, 1995, not all of them consistent with one another, some of them plausible, none of them proven. Although I have no specific theories of my own, I’ve had the suspicion from the start that someone in the federal government had advanced knowledge that something nasty was going to happen in Oklahoma City that day. As to the details, I am as much in the dark as anyone who wasn’t there. Compounding the matter is the fact that – so far, anyway – McVeigh himself isn’t talking. He seems to have dismissed all conspiracy theories and reports of "John Doe No. 2’s" with the remark in a recent interview that "You can’t handle the truth. And the truth is that it is pretty scary that one guy can do this all alone."
Perhaps McVeigh temporarily forgot about his official partner Terry Nichols. But is he covering for others who have never been identified, at least not publicly? Several of the FBI documents apparently refer to a mysterious figure named Robert Jacques (sometimes the name appears as Jacks). There are allegations of connections with a white supremacist compound named Elohim City, near the Oklahoma-Arkansas. I am rather dubious that this is significant, because Terry Nichols was twice married, once to a Mexican woman and the other time to a woman from the Philippines. This doesn’t sound like white supremacist behavior to me.
Other allegations connect the Oklahoma City bombing with Osama bin Laden, the Middle East terrorist. Multiple allegations insist that McVeigh was sighted the morning of the bombing, and was never by himself. The FBI allegedly has 22 or more surveillance tapes from cameras mounted on the front of the Murrah Federal Building that survived the blast and would have shown the front of the Ryder truck itself including the driver’s and rider’s seats – presumably revealing whether McVeigh was alone or in the company of others up to the final seconds before the blast. The FBI has refused to release these tapes, although an independent investigator named David Hoffman has sued to obtain them under the Freedom of Information Act.
Does McVeigh even know all the players? It is clear, first of all, that McVeigh held the federal government responsible for the holocaust at Waco. His own anger was enormous. Could it have been used by others, some of them having infiltrated his circle of associates to learn of his plans and then acting without his knowledge? These questions are rhetorical, obviously. We just don’t know – at least, not yet. At least one item that was circulated my way on the Internet suggests that McVeigh cut a secret deal with the feds some time ago. In exchange for his continued silence, the federal government would spare his life at the last minute. I don’t find this idea all that plausible, either. I have a hard time seeing McVeigh, a soldier who faced death in the Gulf War, cutting deals with a government he despises to save his life here. Clearly, whatever one thinks of him, there are things of more value to him than his own life. Perhaps he sees himself as either a martyr or a prisoner of what he perceives to be the cold war going on between patriots and an out-of-control federal government. (Of course, the explanation for McVeigh’s silence could be more prosaic, relatively speaking: a desire to protect his family from possible retaliation.)
John Ashcroft has pledged not to delay McVeigh’s execution again. But if by some chance it should become clear that others – perhaps agents of the federal government itself – were involved in the worst bombing ever to occur on American soil, a bombing that killed 168 people including 19 children and injured hundreds more, heads will roll. The execution of Timothy McVeigh could well be postponed indefinitely as his lawyers demand a new trial. This, of course, is yet another ‘if,’ and we may seem to be piling still more rhetorical questions on top of speculations here. But there are an awful lot of unanswered questions floating around. I tend to think many people dismiss "conspiracy theories" as a kind of reflex, because they have been trained to do so. Some readers may have seen the Internet tract entitled Thirty Oklahoma City Bombing Questions That Demand an Answer Now! This tract raises questions no one has yet addressed, and about which there has been dead silence. Here is a sampling of unanswered questions that suggest that the federal government had advanced knowledge that the Oklahoma City bombing was coming, and that it could not have happened the way the official accounts say it did.
1. A number of federal employees were killed in the explosion, but no BATF employees. There were, as everyone knows, BATF offices in the Murrah Federal Building. But very shortly after the bombing, we learned that no BATF personnel were even injured – because none were in the building. Why were all BATF personnel away from their desks on a regular weekday morning? Did someone tip them off in advance? This, obviously, would have required advance knowledge of what would take place that morning. (One story of BATF "heroism," that of a Resident Agent Alex McCauley who supposedly fell three floors in an elevator and then helped rescue others, turned out to be a hoax; there is such a person, but like the rest of the BATF personnel he was nowhere near the building when it exploded.)
2. At least one independent report cites "over 70 witnesses" who claimed to have seen Timothy McVeigh on the morning of the explosion in the company of others who were never identified. This includes those who rented McVeigh the Ryder truck in Junction City, Kansas. The manhunts for "John Doe No. 2" were finally discontinued. Some of the composite sketches of other "John Does" seemed to be people of Middle Eastern origin. Who were these people seen by dozens of witnesses, and why did none of these witnesses testify at McVeigh’s trial? Was there a behind-the-scenes campaign to block the airing "conspiracy theories"?
3. U.S. Judge Wayne Alley, whose office was located in the Federal Building, reported the next day of having been warned in a Justice Department memo about an unspecified "terrorist act" to be directed against the Federal building? Who issued this memo, and what happened to it? Judge Alley’s statement was published in the Portland Oregonian. Since then he has refused to repeat the allegation and refused all requests for interviews. Why? Along very similar lines, the Oklahoma City Fire Department was allegedly warned by the FBI the weekend before the bombing to be on alert for something that would take place over the next few days.
4. "Norma" (not her real name), a witness who worked down the street from the Federal Building, reported seeing what appeared to be bomb squad personnel in the area at 7:45 a.m. – over an hour prior to the explosion. Were these really bomb squad personnel, and if so, what were they doing there if no one had advanced knowledge that the Oklahoma City bombing would take place? Other witnesses claimed to have seen bomb squad personnel around that morning, and still others claimed to have seen suspicious activity in the Federal Building itself the day before – which fits with the idea that someone had planted explosive devices inside the federal building. It might be worth noting that according to Thirty Oklahoma City Bombing Questions "Norma" was one of several such witnesses who have since quit their jobs and relocated, also refusing to talk about the incident any further. Were these people threatened?
5. Geophysicist Charles Mankin, Director of the University of Oklahoma’s Geological Survey in Norman, just southeast of Oklahoma City, contended that according to two different seismographic records in the Oklahoma City area there were two distinct explosions, the second coming approximately eight seconds after the first. Along these same lines, several witnesses reported two distinct events, describing how the first event enabled them to dive for cover before the Ryder truck exploded, possibly saving their lives. Within 24 hours such reports would also vanish from the official accounts. Why? Again, no one alleging a two-explosions account of the Oklahoma City bombing was called to testify.
6. It seems clear that Timothy McVeigh wanted to be caught. According to one account, he actually stopped and asked directions to the Murrah Building, placing himself on the scene. Within 48 hours after the explosion, he was stopped by police while speeding toward the state line at almost 100 miles an hour in a car with no license plate. Why has he done so little to defend himself this whole time, knowing full well that silence and inaction could cost him his life? (We may well have answered this above.)
7. Very damning to the government’s conclusions was the revelation that McVeigh used an ANFO (ammonium nitrate and fuel oil) bomb. According to Military Explosives, a Department of the Army and Air Force Technical Manual No. 9-1910, an ANFO requires a 99% or greater purity of ammonium nitrate, as well as a specific dryness, before it can be mixed with the fuel. FBI testimony held that McVeigh used 50 bags of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, which comes in much weaker concentrations than the 99% purity necessary for explosives. From this one can infer that that even under ideal conditions, McVeigh’s concoction could not have created a blast capable of destroying the Murrah Building’s concrete structure, nor would it leave a crater the size of the one at the Murrah Building. In other words, the government’s own source materials lead to the conclusion that the Oklahoma City bombing could not have happened in the way the FBI says; it is physically and chemically impossible. Are the details here correct? No one in the government has to my knowledge come forward with a refutation of this account.
8. Still more damning is the testimony of Retired Air Force Brigadier General Benton K. Partin, former Commander of the Air Force Armament Technology Laboratory, a demolitions expert with 25 years experience in the design and development of explosives and bombs. He stated, "When I first saw the picture of the truck bomb’s asymmetrical damage to the Federal building…, my immediate reaction was that the pattern of damage would have been technically impossible without supplementary demolition charges at some of the reinforced concrete bases inside the building, a standard demolition technique." Partin went on: "[R]einforced concrete targets in large buildings are hard targets to blast. I know of no way possible to reproduce the apparent building damage through simply a truck bomb effort." In other words, again the truck bomb alone couldn’t have done it. Interestingly, General Partin’s lengthy statement earned him a smear, a false accusation associating him with the John Birch Society when his report was picked up and reprinted by the John Birch Society publication The New American – something not of his doing. General Partin had to threaten lawsuits to end the smear campaign. His detailed evaluation was entered into the Congressional Record, but has been completely ignored by federal investigators and by the news media. Why?
9. Also demonized as "cranks" and "right wing extremists" were other explosives experts and professional demolition contractors (such as former FBI agent Ted Gunderson) who reviewed the circumstances surrounding the destruction of the Murrah building and concluded that it was a professional job, with top-grade explosives and devices planted inside the building. No one I know of has come forward to refute the substance of these allegations.
10. The reaction to the bombing by both the Clinton Regime and the Republican-controlled Congress was swift. The former immediately blamed "right wing" talk show hosts and militias – despite no evidence connecting Timothy McVeigh or Terry Nichols with either. We saw long articles in leading newspapers like the New York Times dragging "angry white males" (critics of affirmative action) into this thing. A number of "domestic terrorism" bills were introduced in Congress in a matter of days, covering such topics as the banning of firearms to authorizing Federal wiretaps on private citizens and monitoring their activity on the Internet. The million dollar question: was this a pre-arranged and carefully organized response to a tragedy deliberately planned at the highest centers of power to discredit the militia movement and other critics of the federal government’s progressive abandonment of Constitutional government? Was it part of the ongoing campaign to disarm U.S. citizens through so-called gun control laws? Did the federal government sacrifice some of its own employees (and their children) and ruin the lives of many other people just to discredit its critics? The militias were among the first to denounce the bombing. Their leaders took no credit for it, wanted nothing to do with it. They reiterated that their posture was defensive. But since 1995 the number of citizens’ militias has dropped from over 500 to under 200, suggesting that if this was the motive, it worked.
There are additional allegations of curious events taking place when rescue workers first appeared on the scene following the blast. Some of these allegations involve sightings by rescue personnel of unexploded devices being removed from the debris. Others involve a severed leg that was never matched to any of the known victims. It is difficult to verify these accounts completely. The federal government sequestered the area immediately; no one who did not have official approval was allowed in. Eventually, of course, what was left of the building was bulldozed to the ground, its secrets (if there be any) buried.
One of the first rescue workers on the scene, an Oklahoma City police officer named Terrence Yeakey, had expressed deep concern about some of the things he saw to family members. One day not long after he turned up dead. His death was ruled a suicide. Shades of Vince Foster: a very unusual "suicide" it was. The man apparently cut his wrists, made another cut on his elbow and then cut both sides of his neck around the jugular vein. Having already lost a great deal of blood, he was able to walk out into a fenced-off area at the outskirts of the city where he shot himself. His service revolver was not the weapon used. No autopsy was done, despite it being standard procedure to do an autopsy when a police officer dies under unusual circumstances.
The obvious question: was Officer Yeakey about to reveal information about the Oklahoma City bombing? Members of his family think so, but of course no one can prove it. Officer Yeakey’s briefcase had disappeared. It turned up later, but had been in the hands of the police who did not want to release it to his family. There was plenty of time and opportunity for someone so inclined to have removed incriminating documents or photographs. It should be added that Officer Yeakey had the respect of his fellow police officers and those in the communities he served. He was not a nut.
While the federal government has more and more relied on brute force to accomplish its goals, domestic as well as foreign, it is still hard for most ordinary people to believe that even the Clinton Regime or Janet Reno’s Justice Department could be involved in something as evil as this. I cannot blame people for being skeptical. These were the federal government’s own employees – and their innocent children – not to mention the countless other people working there or who just happened to be in the building or in the vicinity when the bomb(s) went off. Many skeptics will dismiss this as paranoia gone out of control. A flip response is that a little paranoia never hurt anybody, and that just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean someone is not out to get you. Seriously, I would prefer that the skeptics be right, but I am not convinced they are.
The problem is that the official account of what happened in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995, has more holes than Swiss cheese. Every independent investigation I am aware of has concluded that others besides Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols were involved, though they diverge on the details. Some pick up on obscure remarks in McVeigh’s recent letter to Fox News as pointing to a connection between the bombing and the leading terrorist Osama bin Laden, suggesting that Terry Nichols met with bin Laden’s agents in the Phillipines two months earlier to help plan the bombing.
Jayna Davis, an NBC reporter in Oklahoma City, claimed to have turned up evidence that McVeigh was involved with Iraqi immigrants. There was a group of around 5,000 Iraqi soldiers who had deserted Saddam Hussein’s army and were able to win asylum in the United States following the Gulf War. One such group was settled in Oklahoma City. It was this group that had become the target of Miss Davis’ investigation. She was sued by one of its members. The federal lawsuit went on for two years. Jayna Davis finally won. Neither the lawsuit itself nor the outcome was ever reported in any national media.
McVeigh’s silence is admittedly the most troublesome aspect of all the theories we have. There is no way to get inside his head and divine his motives. But we have already seen that there are reasons why he would be silent. His claiming sole credit for the Oklahoma City bombing doesn’t make it so. Exactly what is the truth here? Did the BATF have advanced knowledge of the Oklahoma City bombing? Had they perhaps infiltrated a local terrorist cell and simply allowed the terrorists and McVeigh to do their dirty work for them, knowing that the Clinton Regime and the media were ready to blame it on militias and "right wing extremists"? Again, I would insist: we don’t really know. But the best thing the FBI could do at this point is come clean about what we haven’t been told about the Oklahoma City bombing, and to do so now – because obviously the official story doesn’t add up. If by some chance there is a connection to terrorist movements originating with immigrants or even overseas, members of the public have a right to know about it! It could significantly impact the public’s willingness to tolerate continued open immigration. As an alternative, the least the FBI and the media can do is consider allegations such as those above and show in detail that they are erroneous – or at least discuss the issues they raise. Anything is better than the official silence that has been in place now for six years running.
May 19, 2001
Steven Yates [send him mail] has a Ph.D. in Philosophy and is the author of Civil Wrongs: What Went Wrong With Affirmative Action. He is presently compiling selected essays into a single volume tentatively entitled What Is Wrong With the New World Order and Other Essays and Commentary and a work on a second book, The Paradox of Liberty. He also writes for the Edgefield Journal, and is available for lectures. He lives in Columbia, South Carolina, and is starting his own freelance writing business, Millennium 3 Communications. | |
|
| |
| Oklahoma City Bombing -- Conspiracy??
Posted: 6/19/2008 3:59:07 PM | There are many problems with the official story of the bombing. Let's start with McVeigh's whereabouts on April 17.
McVeigh had been filmed by a security camera at a nearby McDonald's 24 minutes before the time stamped on the truck rental agreement, wearing clothes that did not match either of the men seen at Elliott's.
There is no plausible explanation of how he traveled the mile and a quarter from McDonald's to the rental agency, carless and alone as he claims, without getting soaked in the rain.
The three people interviewed agreed John Does 1 and 2 were dry. According to Stephen Jones, who has seen the interview transcripts, it took 44 days for the FBI to convince the car rental agency owner that John Doe 1 was Timothy McVeigh. And in the end they did not dare put him on the witness stand, for fear of what might happen under cross-examination.
There is also an unanswered question with regard to the truck, namely what was the Army doing with a Ryder Truck just before the Murrah blast?
The biggest problem with the official story of the bombing are early news reports of the incident:
Other live news broadcasts reporting additional bombs can be heard in this 862kB mp3 file. Additional bombs are also reported in this CNN transcript and public records.
The Murrah building was not destroyed by a single truck bomb - the Eglin blast effects study and General Partin's Report prove this is the case.
Things that go BOOM in the night!
Before proceeding to the acoustical data, let me explain a little something about explosives and how people perceive them.
I work in special effects. In films, great use is made of low velocity explosives such as untamped black powder and ANFO because they are low velocity explosives. With a great whoosh and roar they belch forth with fire and smoke in a manner that has caused folks to drop their popcorn in matinees ever since sound came in.
Movies have conditioned people to expect a certain look and sound to explosions, all based on very low velocity explosives. In a stunning ironic twist, moviegoers seem to perceive the slower explosions as more powerful.
Demolition experts will tell you that high brissive or high velocity explosives actually are more powerful, as they build up a powerful shock wave. However, except for actually collapsing a structure, such explosives are unsuitable for film. The blast is over so quickly it can be missed while the film is moving between one frame and the next. There is very little visible smoke and flash, and the "crack" of a C-4 cutter charge is downright disappointing to hear.
Thus, the average person's awareness of what an explosion is supposed to look and sound like is based on the movies and low velocity explosives only. In not knowing what high velocity explosives sound like or feel like (as the shock wave moves through the earth), many people might not understand what they have heard or felt on April 19th.
With that in mind...
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/ok.html | |
|
| Oklahoma City Bombing -- Conspiracy??
Posted: 7/23/2008 12:53:39 PM | Let's say the BATF saved themselves and no one else; which would make them mass murderers. So, if they're ruthless murderers, why not take the opportunity to leave a few behind that you'd just as soon cut from the roster, political cronies, and such?
I think it's ludicrous to think that any part of the federal government had anything to do with the bombing; certainly they didn't know specifics.
If they did know specifics, they would have stopped him, or at least tried. Stopping him would have been a huge public relations coup following the disaster at Waco.
I think you're chasing butterflies.
This is like those that think Roosevelt engineered Pearl Harbor.
If he knew Pearl Harbor was going to get hit, wouldn't it have made sense NOT to have most of the Pacific fleet and a big chunk of the army there? Wouldn't it have made more sense, even if you wanted the Japanese to succeed, to have your aircraft fueled and ready for combat, your carriers at sea ready to intercept the task force at least on its journey home? You would want them to cripple your fleet and kill 3,000 sailors and soldiers? That's not strategy, that's insane.
These are simplicites that show the silliness of conspiracy theories. Simple logic generally dispels them, because they're complexities aren't coherent.
My vote is against conspiracy on this one. | |
|
| Oklahoma City Bombing -- Conspiracy??
Posted: 7/23/2008 1:16:00 PM | Newwayhome, conspiracy or not... WHY pull news coverage of others bombs being removed? This was seen right on the news casting, where rescue for survivors had to be stopped, and the bomb squad actually pulled the bombs out... It's all hush hush now, why?
I know it is nicer to think that our own government wouldn't do anything that would harm their own people, but the reality is and has been our US soldiers have gone into many battles with inferior and worthless battle gear.
Desert Storm is a perfect example of this, where the "gas masks" were so worthless, that they had a better chance of survival by putting their head between their legs..
It has been REPEATEDLY proven that Bush and high ranking officials were warned over and over of an impending attack, even the day before it happened, but he sat reading a story to kids about goats???
So what is more insane? Sitting there continuing to read a story to children, or getting your a$$ up the moment you hear that a plane has taken a plunge into the world trade center.
As much as people feel safely tucked in at nite, because the news said we are all safe, one has to really wonder what the daily reality really is.... (shakes head, shrugs...) | |
|
NERO1
| | Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 6 | |
| Oklahoma City Bombing -- Conspiracy??
Posted: 7/23/2008 1:25:34 PM | ^ ^ Personally I've never really believed the gov't had anything to do with this one, per se. If they "heard chatter" , or what have you, ahead of time, that's possible. But I don't believe they knew exactly what was coming at all. Just as I don't believe any of the theories about the gov't being behind 9/11 either. What I do think, going back to OK City, is that there were more people involved in it than just McVeigh and Nichols.
Personally I think they were tied in with a weird combination of white supremacist / anti-gov't radicals, and foreign Islamic radicals. Nichols was married to a Fillipino buy-a-bride and it has been proven now that he spent undue amounts of time in Cebu City (formerly a haven for expat Muslim radicals from various parts of Asia, and so on). Cebu City was the former base of operations of the first WTC bombing ringleader, Ramzi Ahmed Yousef. The OK City truck bomb was the exact same "U-shape charge" and delivery method (parking it in what they believed to be a key spot near the base, etc) as the first (failed) WTC bombing in '93.
Nichols is believed to have actually met with members of the Abu Sayyaf terrorist group (a sort of early associate group of alQaeda's) in Cebu City, under the code name "the farmer". The topic of discussion at those meetings? The manufacture and best method of delivery for massive truck bombs.
I believe McVeigh knew full well about these associations (he practically died telling his lawyer, 'I can't tell you who was really involved in this' to his dying day). He possibly "worked with" a couple of them on the days leading right up to the bombing, and was also on his own tied in I believe with various white supremacist and anti-gov't radicals. Many people saw him in the company of other men on the days just before the bombing.
Thinking about it from just a simple, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" kind of principle, it would make sense. Politicized foreign Muslim militants who wish to see a blow stricken against the US gov't; "homegrown" radicals and racists who believe the fed'l gov't is "Jewish-controlled" "ZOG" (Zionist Occupational Gov't); and old-fashioned anti-fed'l gov't militia-type elements.
There's no real reason why certain violent radicals from out of each of those kinds of groups might not set other important differences aside and work together, if the situation presented itself, in order to strike a powerful blow against the most hated enemies which they share : the US gov't and (as they perceive it) the US taxpayer who helps fund that gov't, as well as of course the (again as they perceive it) "Jew" who secretly controls so much of the US gov't in their warped belief system.
There is even some sort of bizarre "outreach" thing they have , on the Internet now, something along the lines of "Solar Order" or some weird name like that, wherein white supremacist / separatist groups are seeking to make common cause with the oppressed Palestinians (despite the racial difference -- they reason that Hitler did it in WWII by befriending the Grand Mufti), and so on. It's a strange, but IMO potentially quite dangerous, "alliance" of sorts .... one which would share , presumably, the deep-seated hatred of the US gov't and of Jews and Israel as well. | |
|
| Oklahoma City Bombing -- Conspiracy??
Posted: 7/23/2008 2:25:38 PM | When it comes to 9/11 there is a lot that is coming out about it... Whether our government personally knew or not isn't the point, but rather there was NOTHING put into place to handle a situation that occured. There was mass confusion as to what to do by the air plane controllers.
These threats against the US was not a secret, especially since the world trade center was bombed on Clintons' watch.
My issue is this, WHY were the tv clips of the other bombs pulled? Why were their supposed bomb squads out and hour earlier?
Why were there no Israelies in building 7?
The questions are unending, THUS the conspiracy theorist pop up...
The American Government has been well aware for an extremely long time of the discontentment of other countries, and these countries have shown exactly what they are capable of. Is our country so niave, that they think we are impervious to attacks that happen in other countries?
McVeigh, full stated he wanted to die, rather than tell anymore than he knew about what really went on in Ok. So we know from his statements that there were more people involved. (sorry you said that already)
The thing that annoys me the most is that "the truth" about things are covered up on a regular basis, and I would like to know WHY this is done? Is giving the American people a false since of security more practicle than telling them the truth?
There is civil disrest and distrust in this country, I see and hear it happening more and more. That is when a country turns on itself, and a chaotic civil war breaks out...
That bothers me... | |
|
| Oklahoma City Bombing -- Conspiracy??
Posted: 7/23/2008 3:26:27 PM | And I suppose that the recent revelation that the black population in America is declining since deaths now outnumber live births reinforeces your belief that:
AIDS was genetically engineered to wipe out blacks; more of them are dying from it than any other race.
Abortion clinics are purposely located near black neighborhoods so that more blacks get abortions than whites and/or so that blacks are encouraged to get abortions.
Heroin, cocaine, and crack cocaine (now crystal meth) were, one by one, introduced in the ghettos to kill the black population.
It's easy for criminals to get guns because the government wants it that way; how else are they supposed to kill each other? (Self-cleaning oven theory.)
Recent municipal improvements in black neighborhoods were meant to lure whites back to the city; which has worked. Boston, Seattle and San Francisco are all experiencing 'black flight'. Black majorities in Washington and Atlanta are threatened.
If you connect the dots, it's obvious as hell. A concerted effort on the part of somebody to destabilize black society in America and wipe it out. I mean, we even kill their leaders, right? Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Medgar Evers.
Thing is, it's all bullshit. It's just coincidence; and where it's not, it's the result of poverty or culture or something else, but it's not a conspiracy, even though the signs of it are undeniable.
Is this making any sense? | |
|
| Oklahoma City Bombing -- Conspiracy??
Posted: 7/23/2008 5:29:09 PM | I am really not sure what you talk about all this stuff against the black people...
We were talking about OK city bombing. Did talk a bit about 9/11, however this hasn't had anything to do with black people, and aids being created to kill blacks, or abortion clinics...
It has been WELL documented about the other bombs in OK. 9/11 has also brought up ALOT of questions. I am not talking about conspiracy about race, so where does this fit into OK City Bombing????
People should ask why??? If something doesn't make sense. I stated conspiracy or not, there are still questions that people DO HAVE A RIGHT to know the answers to, and not just sweep them under the rug as though they didn't exist.
If you have issues against, or for black people, ask the question...
I know life on earth is a coincidence too, or is it a conspiracy????? | |
|
| Oklahoma City Bombing -- Conspiracy??
Posted: 7/23/2008 5:48:19 PM |
It has been WELL documented about the other bombs in OK. 9/11 has also brought up ALOT of questions. I am not talking about conspiracy about race, so where does this fit into OK City Bombing????
It fit's into OK city bombing when the government thorugh the controlled msm planted it the minds of the American people . (Similarly to the non-existant wmd's.)
It's very effective camaflauge , the people fear this kind of stuff , so that it serves to demonise conservatives and it acts as a powerful cover up , both at the same time .
People should ask why??? If something doesn't make sense. I stated conspiracy or not, there are still questions that people DO HAVE A RIGHT to know the answers to, and not just sweep them under the rug as though they didn't exist.
People find asking tough questions to be uncomfortable .
| |
|
| |
| |
| Oklahoma City Bombing -- Conspiracy??
Posted: 7/24/2008 11:54:25 AM | I think it's ludicrous to think that any part of the federal government had anything to do with the bombing; certainly they didn't know specifics.
If you don't think the government would do such a thing then I suggest you do some research on the Tuskeegee experiment, Ruby Ridge, the Gulf of Tonkin Incident, and MK-ULTRA.
If people are further interested in the OK anomalies I suggest reading OK Bomb by Jim Keith. | |
|
| Oklahoma City Bombing -- Conspiracy??
Posted: 7/24/2008 12:21:05 PM | I have never been at the birth of a new conspiracy theory before. I hope this one turns out to be as funny to read about as the ones on New World Order and the illuminati but not so offensive as the 9/11 ones. I have to give you Americans due credit though. You do conspiracy real well. You see it everywhere.
Keep up the good work and I watch this one with interest. Cheers | |
|
NERO1
| | Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 15 | |
| Oklahoma City Bombing -- Conspiracy??
Posted: 7/24/2008 12:42:51 PM | | ^^ It's an old story, so don't bother watching too closely. There won't be any new developments. It's a dead issue. Just random conversation, at this point. | |
|
rsx11s
| | Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 16 | |
| |
| Oklahoma City Bombing -- Conspiracy??
Posted: 7/24/2008 12:56:43 PM |
I have to give you Americans due credit though. You do conspiracy real well.
I have to not only argue with my countrymen but defend them as well? I'm an American, I don't buy into conspiracy theories, and I don't formulate them. What I said above about a conspiracy to wipe out blacks are words that have come out of the most prominent black leaders in this country, they didn't come from me first.
I put them there so that people can see that even when there is overwhelming evidence for a conspiracy, it might not be true. It might just be coincidence and things out of context and a handful of faked documents.
I know about Tuskegee and Ruby Ridge and MK-Ultra and I'm still not impressed. There's nothing there that's as heinous as the forced sterilization of gypsies, which many European countries still practice in the 22nd century.
O.K.C. was a disaster with no victory for anyone involved.
All you have to do is look at any given conspiracy theory and see what the so-called conspirators had to gain. If foreknowledge of an event could have led to a better outcome, then surely the suspected participant was in fact not one at all. Logic. All it takes is a little logic. Unfortunately, this is an element missing from most all conspiracy theories. | |
|
Hoop
| | Joined: 5/1/2006
Msg: 18 | |
| Oklahoma City Bombing -- Conspiracy??
Posted: 7/25/2008 9:29:47 AM | I don't think I've seen Arlington Road, I'll have to rent it.
I heard something.. caught the tale end.. on the radio about the X Files, it brought to mind that pilot back in 2001
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUKQz-xm0is
These 'showings' appear to be reinforcements of some such chosen 'thought'
In the X Files example, it appears to have been PLANES. | |
|
| Oklahoma City Bombing -- Conspiracy??
Posted: 7/25/2008 9:41:14 AM | ^^^Very good movie. Tough one to watch if you're a big Tim Robbins fan.
Since this is all just after the fact discussion, I'm wondering when they talk about conspiracy nuts and whatnot, why that description doesn't seem to fit one expert that tried repeatedly and unsuccessfully to not have the crime scene demolished and carted away with extreme haste in much the same manner that crime scene of the WTC was done several years later:
""Red Flags From an Expert ""
"""...Too many facts, he said, "simply just don't add up" to support that convenient explanation. For Partin, the reported "facts" contradicted not only the laws of physics, but a lifetime of personal experience as well.
...General Partin was not offering another "wacko conspiracy theory." He was offering solid, compelling, methodical, scientific analysis backed by a sterling career and impeccable credentials. Twenty-five of his 31 years of active service in the Air Force were involved in intensive research, design, development, testing, and management of weapons at all levels....
...General Partin' s analysis focuses on a number of crucially important and glaring inconsistencies in the forensic evidence of the Murrah Building that continue to challenge the official truck bomb scenario...."""
Lots more there at:
http://www.generalpartin.org/redflags.htm
Must just be a bunch of coincidences... | |
|
| Oklahoma City Bombing -- Conspiracy??
Posted: 7/25/2008 1:53:03 PM | The opinions of figures in authority are not necessarily facts. Using those opinions to sway an audience interested in facts is called an appeal to authority, it's considered an unfounded argument but it does make for good propaganda.
I understand the confusion that it creates for people when crime scenes are erased. I have no doubt that all evidence needed from both bomb sites (we know the two, I don't have to name them) was collected; and probably required excavation of the ruins to do so.
Police are generally inept. Anytime police are involved with something there are going to be mistakes and what ifs. The F.B.I. on the other hand, their job is to keep my country safe. I think they're doing it.
Here's a good one I just read in Time Magazine: we invaded Afghanistan so we could steal their emeralds; we know where Osama is, but if we capture him we have to leave and if we do that we can't rape the country's natural resources.
I got a million of them. | |
|
| Oklahoma City Bombing -- Conspiracy??
Posted: 7/25/2008 6:43:46 PM | | Yep only the Lame Street press tells the truth. The Government never lies or makes mistakes, Globull warming is real Al Gore is great, frogs are all dying ignore the thousands you see in the county, Polar bears well be extinct if the Globull warming hoax was true, no conspiracy just the facts, OK bombing was just like the lame street press told you move along, the dollar is control by the Federal Gov. and the bankers sorry don't bother with facts everything is fine. | |
|
| Oklahoma City Bombing -- Conspiracy??
Posted: 7/25/2008 10:24:49 PM | Anything that starts with "go watch the movie" is about as credible as watching The Wizard of Oz to see what happens to you if you get caught in a tornado.
And me saying..I think Bigfoot is responsible for the OK city bombing pretty much fits in here too. | |
|
| Oklahoma City Bombing -- Conspiracy??
Posted: 10/28/2008 1:19:58 PM | it was all Bilderberg, CFR, Trilateral Commission, One World Government, Mossad/CIA/KGB/FBI/Illuminati/MI6/MI5, etc., etc.
and they are all busily monitoring these postings and will make sure that anyone who posts suggesting a 'conspiracy' will have a 'fatal accident' soon..very soon.
Be afraid, very afraid..
OR remember to take your medication.. | |
|
| Oklahoma City Bombing -- Conspiracy??
Posted: 11/29/2008 4:29:56 PM | Every heard of the 1989 Don Johnson movie "Deadbang"?
He plays a California cop who chases neo-nazis to OKC where they plan to blow up a federal building. | |
|
|
Home
login 
