| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/19/2008 7:32:39 PM | Global T.V. has been running a series this week on how some these people are committing crimes and getting minimal sentences for repeat offences.
Some of these people actually have more then 100 convictions.
But because most of the convictions result only in Provincial sentences. (2 years less a day) At maximum. They are out with only a fraction of the sentence served. Having little, if any chance of rehabilitation.
With the chronic nature of the crimes that are committed the Vancouver police are asking for a Thirty Strikes and Your Out system. This would mean that after thirty convictions the courts would be sentencing these people to Federal prisons. Were they would be able to receive, counseling, drug rehabilitation, and job training. Unlike they are receiving in Provincial prisons.
I believe this to be a good idea. It will get the offenders off the streets for more then a few months. And it could actually serve as a deterrent.
Everyone of us have heard of some one going to jail just to be released a short time later to commit more crimes.
I don't really see any deterrent for these people to stop what there doing with the current system. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/19/2008 7:40:04 PM | | Tell me about it. Been robbed twice from the same guy after i identified the perk from a photo line up at vpd office. court restricted him from coming near my work place and me. Couple months later he robs me again. Our system is flawed. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/19/2008 7:46:47 PM | | I have never given chronic offenders a lot of thought. I think if this is what the police are suggesting will work then it is a good idea. 30 seems like a lot of offenses. Why not 4 or 5? I suspect some offenders meet their buddies in prison and learn how to commit more crimes. If people are offending chronically, it sounds like a life style. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/19/2008 8:03:41 PM | Apologies about the sarcasm, but there is little else left one can say about the state of the penal system. It would appear that it costs more to house criminals than is worth the safety and welfare of the citizens of this country. So the courts let the insurances carry the burden and the victims suffer the consequences.
Somehow it feels the chains and shackles (we could use humane GPS locater collars now) labor camps of yesteryear were a good idea after all. It served many purposes, all could easily be sentenced, society was paid back by the offenders and the offenders had opportunity to think about their conduct far deeper than any psychologist can reach.
This will certainly not be a deterrent for repeat or habitual offenders, but at least while serving a sentence the costs to society will be minimal.
The reasoning here is why should society care about those who don't care about the society they live in? | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/19/2008 9:20:11 PM |
but there is little else left one can say about the state of the penal system.
The answer is right there in the name.....run/managed by d1cks. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/19/2008 9:33:38 PM |
The answer is right there in the name.....run/managed by d1cks.
aren't they supposed to be kept inside?
I trust you derived at penal from "penitentiary" and not the adjective of the Latin word for 'dick'... oh what pun | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/19/2008 9:49:43 PM | Have to say I am very much in agreement with the idea expressed by ML. Truthfully, the only way I can see the penal system result in anything close to punishment is in work gangs. Perhaps we could do the hard labour instead of the working out in the ultra modern gym for the felons to tone and sculpt their bods.
Seriously, so long as the system remains as it is, the only people being punished are the law abiding citizens that are forced to support these thugs. Lets make em work for us instead! | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/19/2008 9:59:00 PM | think they r going to try the AMERICAN system real soon.... have the same time serve for whatever the crime was... maximum minium . No matter how small or how big the crime was u get the same sentence...
god, i need brush up on this, i can't remember all the nitty gritty's as I've been outta the loop for a long time.
All i know is that the judicial system is flawed, everyone is tired overworked and under paid and most time the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. Everything is going amuk!! | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/19/2008 11:48:14 PM | Did you see when the judge was questioned he said they are not to blame, that the Gov't has to make the changes.
The conservatives are trying to do just that but the Liberals and NDP will not let them go far enough.
But the judges could do a lot more . This seems like a make work program for judges and lawyers.
The police are getting frustrated and have every right to be. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/20/2008 9:22:03 AM | Minimum sentences do not help, three strike laws don't make a difference. It has been proven time and again that when the laws gets tougher and the Judges get tougher, society pays more, a LOT more.
The idea of chains, shackles, and work gangs, made more modern with electronic aids may work. That way we might keep the criminals productive and our streets a little safer. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/20/2008 11:22:18 AM | The chronic offender knows when they commit a crime & get caught, its a mini holiday in our jail. The criminal spends a few days, gets plenty of food, water, sleep and drugs somewhere in the sytems. Then after a few days, they're released and repeat it all over again.
Our legal system is flawed from charging the criminal and our laws need to be changed to match the crime & if this repeat offender has over 100 conviction, the red flags are waving for serious time in our prison system. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/20/2008 4:15:25 PM | With the chronic nature of the crimes that are committed the Vancouver police are asking for a Thirty Strikes and Your Out system. This would mean that after thirty convictions the courts would be sentencing these people to Federal prisons. Were they would be able to receive, counseling, drug rehabilitation, and job training. Unlike they are receiving in Provincial prisons.
I believe this to be a good idea. It will get the offenders off the streets for more then a few months. And it could actually serve as a deterrent.
Everyone of us have heard of some one going to jail just to be released a short time later to commit more crimes.
I don't really see any deterrent for these people to stop what there doing with the current system. - bluecollarguy101
One of the reaosn this used to happen is the distance to the Federal prisons, made it mroe difficult for families to visit.
At one time (years ago), there was no women's Federal prison, closer than Kingston Ontario. So it has become customary
for that to be taken inot consideration, during sentencing.
My question is this: Why are counseling, drug rehabilitation & job training, NOT avavilable in provincial prisons, in the
first place? Seems to me that almost all of these people, could be helped by such programs. Why go to the expense
of changing the law to give chronic offender stiffer sentences, plus it would also help those offenders who are not
chronic yet, a little prevention here, might be a very good idea? | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/20/2008 4:44:00 PM | Ahhhhhhhhh, the judicial system or lack of rears it's ugly head once again in our forums........
If you're really interested in why such light punishment for pretty much any crime in this province can be summed up in one word..."money".
You can rent a home, do 500k dammage having a grow up and get off on probation with 0 restoration, nothing, not much of a deterent eh?
It costs money to keep people incarcerated, just like it cost to have the mentally ill housed and looked after, take the downtown eastside homeless problem for instance, most have serious issues and the inability mentally to maintain prescribed meds.
These people are arrested on a weekly or daily basis for various crimes.....just nuts.
How much are they really saving with such a weak justice/social system in the long run? | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/20/2008 6:45:04 PM |
The idea of chains, shackles, and work gangs, made more modern with electronic aids may work. That way we might keep the criminals productive and our streets a little safer.
Making them work for the privileges that they are getting would be a start. It seems to me that it is much to easy for them. As smitten2meetu said its a holiday. They get feed, housed, and recreation amongst other things. At the expense of the taxpayer. And what do they contribute?
Why go to the expense
of changing the law to give chronic offender stiffer sentences, plus it would also help those offenders who are not
chronic yet, a little prevention here, might be a very good idea?
I think that these have realised that this a very lucrative job now. They go out and commit these crimes knowing that there will be little repercussions. There should be a cumulative affect in our system.
The more crimes that you commit the stiffer the sentence you get. But this isn't happening. Especially here in B.C. Criminals are hearing of our lax sentences, and comfortable prisons and coming here from all over the country. And this is only costing the law abiding citizen more grief.
Remember these people aren't commiting just one or two crimes. Some of them have over 100 and counting. I also think that 30 is a high number.
As I said earlier I is no deterrent in our justice system. Prison is meant to be a punishment. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/20/2008 10:32:05 PM | | I'm reading that many of you think that the solution is to lock them up and throw away the keys...seems like you think that this would work better than providing better childcare, better education programs (especially for those with disabilities), equitable employment, job training, housing subsidies, cheap nutritious food, drug treatment programs and affordable family oriented recreation. Why not build bigger jails and hire more guards? That ought to create more employment for some people. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/20/2008 10:37:00 PM | | It makes me glad to know that the mounties will occasionally take a chronic offender out in the woods and blow his head off, dump him in the ocean. At least I hope they do. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/20/2008 11:00:07 PM | ^^^^right.......would explain all the unclaimed feet now wouldnt it?
I agree that the reason for the status being as it is all comes back to the almighty dollar. Save a buck today that will cost 100 bucks 10 years from now, cuz who is going to be holding the buck in 10 years??? It is such a pathetic sign of our times. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/20/2008 11:22:10 PM |
I'm reading that many of you think that the solution is to lock them up and throw away the keys.
In some of these cases this maybe the only answer.
Remember we are talking about chronic offenders.
providing better childcare, better education programs (especially for those with disabilities), equitable employment, job training, housing subsidies, cheap nutritious food, drug treatment programs and affordable family oriented recreation.
Of course these are great preventative measures. But many of these options are not available now. And I don't believe these people would take advantage of them if they were. To many of these people this has become a way of life.
So how do you suggest we deal with them?
Allow this revolving door we call our criminal justice system to continue. With minimum sentences for chronic offenders who will continue to use the system to there advantage. Or should we put them somewhere with the resources that can help them.
I don't think that they are getting any help when they are incarcerated for a few months and allowed back on the street with no real help or support.
These people have shown that the provincial system is not helping them. Should the rest of the population suffer. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/20/2008 11:27:47 PM | | So...let me get this straight...Justin, you think that the kid who shoplifts and does B and E's deserves to be shot just because he/she does this more than once??? You are making Canada sound like a 3rd world county where kids do get shot for minor crimes. Lucky you that you had people in your life who gave you all of the wonderful opportunities that you have had in your life (like learning to play the guitar) and taught you to take advantage of these opportunities. Glad that you are not mentoring any youth in your community if this is really the way you think. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/20/2008 11:37:38 PM | Amen dude.......^^^.......There's far too many bleeding heart liberals today.....
Way to many people unwilling to take the responisiblilty for their actions, why??
Our justice system is gutless.
Look at that gutless lead singer from Nickel Back did when he was caught pig drunk driving his sports car at an outrageous speed, caught dead to rights.......plead not guilty, huh??
Another so called role model for others to mimic, I'm so glad money does't always buy you a free ride, shoulda locked the idiot up instead of the slap he did get.
Yes, some should be locked up forever if they cannot demonstrate their willingness to obey the law, nuff said. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/21/2008 12:56:47 AM | yeah, CelticLass, the liberal in me says rehabilitate, but the conservative in me says executionate!
LOL
See the sarcasm for what it is.
OE: Oh yeah, I mentor lots of kids all the time, mainly on the use of crack pipes and IEDs.
I have no sympathy for someone who's appeared in front of a judge more than, say, 3 times? After that, he's just another cog in the judicial system that requires civil disobedience to perpetuate the entire legal system. Just think, where would lawyers be if there were no criminals? They'd have to make a real living... | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/21/2008 1:11:37 AM | Has anyone read about this sherrif and why he doesn't have repeat offenders. I think the VPD should copy what this county sherriff has done with the chain gang prisioners. I think any chronic offfender would be scared to repeat any crime and return back here. Read the article its interesting and included two websites.
http://www.mcso.org/index.php?a=GetModule&mn=Sheriff_Bio
http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/27/tough.sheriff/
To those of you not familiar with Joe Arpaio, he is the Maricop a County Sherriff (Arizona) and he keeps getting elected over and over again.
These are some of the reasons why:
Sheriff Joe Arpaio created the "tent city jail" to save Arizona from spending tens of millions of dollars on another expensive prison complex.
He has jail meals down to 20 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them.
He banned smoking and pornographic magazines in the jails, and took away their weightlifting equipment and cut off all but "G" movies. He says:
"They're in jail to pay a debt to society not to build muscles so they can assault innocent people when they leave."
He started chain gangs to use the inmates to do free work on county and city projects and save taxpayer's money.
Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination.
He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again but only allows the Disney channel and the weather channel.
When asked why the weather channel, he replied: "So these morons will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs."
He cut off coffee because it has zero nutritional value and is therefore a waste of taxpayer money. When the inmates complained, he told them, "This isn't the Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back."
He also bought the Newt Gingrich lecture series on US history that he pipes into the jails. When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series that actually tells the truth for a change would be welcome and that it might even explain why 95% of the inmates were in his jails in the first place.
With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record for June 2nd 2007), the Associated Press reported: About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed wire surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip down to their government-issued pink boxer shorts.
On the Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing pink boxer shorts were overheard chatting in the tents, where temperatures reached 128 degrees.
"This is hell. It feels like we live in a furnace," said Ernesto Gonzales, an inmate for 2 years with 10 more to go. "It's inhumane."
Joe Arpaio, who makes his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is not one bit sympathetic. "Criminals should be punished for their crimes - not live in luxury until it's time for parole, only to go out and commit more crimes so they can come back in to live on taxpayers money and enjoy things many taxpayers can't afford to have for themselves."
The same day he told all the inmates who were complaining of the heat in the tents: "It's between 120 to 130 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and they have to walk all day in the sun, wearing full battle gear and get shot at, and they have not committed any crimes, so shut your damned mouths!"
Way to go, Sheriff! If all prisons were like yours there would be a lot less crime and we would not be in the current position of running out of prison spaces.
Sheriff Joe was just re-elected as Sheriff in Maricopa County, Arizona | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/21/2008 8:22:06 AM | | Yup...I'm a bleeding heart...ouch...bandaids please. Enjoy your wheatties this morning... hope you have lots of nails to add to them to keep up your image as you wouldn't want to tarnish it. It must be hard for those poor overworked lawyers to prosecute celebrities when even the premier of BC can get away with drunk driving (and not even be made to resign by his own party) maybe family law would be easier for them. So...just because people with power and influence and $$$ can get away with criminal behavior, this means that all the kids who mess up because they have such difficult beginnings in life should be shot when they shoplift a couple of times??? Did I get that right Justin and Tempter??? | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/21/2008 8:44:52 AM | Let's not point our fingers at the people that have to deal with the end result of our upbringing of our children in our society. Easy to blame these people for not giving longer sentences,etc.
How about we go back to teaching the young ones,,,,(while they are young) that if YOU do something, YOU are accountable. Not your Mommy. Not your Daddy. Not your teacher. Not your neighbour. Well you get my drift.
If your kid acts out and deserves punishment in school, in a sporting event, in whatever,,,,let the punishment happen,,,without us, as parents whining about how "unfair" the punishment is.
I believe if the acccountability is taught,,,,AND enforced during the younger years,,,,people will actually understand that there are certain things they shouldn't be doing when they are "adults". Of course the bleeding hearts will disagree with me,,,but I submit to you, that we are breeding the criminals all by ourselves. No one to blame except the people we see in the mirror. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/21/2008 9:34:28 AM |
Has anyone read about this sherrif and why he doesn't have repeat offenders. I think the VPD should copy what this county sherriff has done with the chain gang prisioners. I think any chronic offfender would be scared to repeat any crime and return back here.
Yes I have seen this on a news special. It seems to work. Its not easy and that's the whole point of being punished.
I believe if the acccountability is taught,,,,AND enforced during the younger years,,,,people will actually understand that there are certain things they shouldn't be doing when they are "adults". Of course the bleeding hearts will disagree with me,,,but I submit to you, that we are breeding the criminals all by ourselves. No one to blame except the people we see in the mirror.
In this day and age how hard is it to actually enforce rules. Yes we can teach by example but with parents ether unable or unwilling to apply some form of minor discipline, and a school system that does not properly grade students work.
We have created a society that is saying you didn't do good enough but that's alright.
Or you broke the rules but we forgive you. Don't worry there wont be any consequences.
So...just because people with power and influence and $$$ can get away with criminal behavior, this means that all the kids who mess up because they have such difficult beginnings in life should be shot when they shoplift a couple of times??? Did I get that right Justin and Tempter???
They are just expressing there frustration with the system and how it seems to be failing to protect the victims. As am I.
You have made some good points on how to prevent this problem from happening in the future.
But you still haven't offered any suggestions on how to deal with the problem we have now.
What should be done with chronic offenders who have proven time and again that they have no respect for the the justice system or the people they are victimizing? | |
|
Home
login 
