| what the hell is wrong with the two party system?
Posted: 6/19/2008 9:27:43 PM | | I honestly don't understand how individuals can relate to either party. the democrat party is way too far left, and the republican party is way too far right. why don't people want to meet in the middle anymore? we have no good politicians in washington. the democrat party seems to think that it's their right to interfere with our wallets, and the republican party seems to think that it's their right to interfere with out personal life. this is not the country that I grew to love. I honestly believe that these two parties are going to suffer no matter who wins. people are tired. the two party system is a total failure. one might have a good idea, but it's shot down by the other party. after this election, does anyone think that a third party has a chance? we need an unpolluted candidate to run for office. despite what person gets the white house this election, I actually have some hope for the future. perhaps we can return this country to greatness. if we keep voting for the status quo, it won't happen. | |
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| what the hell is wrong with the two party system?
Posted: 6/19/2008 9:47:22 PM | | Not sure why it is. Just know we'll have 2 parties for a long time yet to come. Get over it and you'll be much happier. Whoever makes it into 'the house' isn't going to affect my life in the least because I won't let them. | |
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| what the hell is wrong with the two party system?
Posted: 6/19/2008 10:03:01 PM | Two party systems are not a bad thing, necessarily, unless there is a polarization of the political landscape. Once that starts to occur, for whatever the reason, then extremist views become more popular. What your opponent is for, you have to be AGAINST. 
The previous model of American politics allowed for far more diversity, so that each side could expand to fill one hundred and eighty degrees of the horizon. That hasn't been the case for a long time now.
"Left" and "Right" have become "Communist"and" Fascist" , both sides apparently seem to be lead by Satan himself, and both are strongly committed to the destruction of America. It's frankly surprising anything ever gets done, considering how mutually committed they all are to this aspect of destroying America.
In truth, a third party solution is perhaps something that America needs right now, if this is to be the case. A 'third way" might really inspire the other two to reflect on their current course. | |
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| what the hell is wrong with the two party system?
Posted: 6/19/2008 10:44:23 PM | Two party systems are the natural result of the first past the post system that is used in the UK, Canada, and the United States.
It sucks, but the only way to fix it is to fix the underlying system. | |
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| what the hell is wrong with the two party system?
Posted: 6/19/2008 11:00:05 PM | I honestly don't understand how individuals can relate to either party. the democrat party is way too far left, and the republican party is way too far right. why don't people want to meet in the middle anymore?
What do left, right, and center even mean anymore? George Bush, the "conservative", has run up the debt, interfered with local schools, and expanded the power and scope of the federal government. That hardly sounds conservative or right wing to me. And the Demoncrats are busy falling over each other denouncing the occupation of Iraq, yet consistently vote to fund it. That doesn't sound very liberal or left wing to me.
after this election, does anyone think that a third party has a chance?
No. Every 4 years it's the same old same old. One may hate both the candidates but a vote for Nader is a vote for the hated Repuglicans. A vote for the Libertarian candidate is a vote for the hated Demoncrats. People won't vote for third party candidates because it hands the election over to the greater of two evils.
we need an unpolluted candidate to run for office.
He or she won't stand a chance. The system is rigged so that third party candidates have extreme difficulty getting on ballots, the Demoncrats and Repuglicans drain their coffers with frivolous legal challenges, the major media ignores them, and the people don't vote for them.
despite what person gets the white house this election, I actually have some hope for the future. perhaps we can return this country to greatness.
The system is broken and cannot be fixed from within. | |
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| what the hell is wrong with the two party system?
Posted: 6/19/2008 11:09:28 PM |
In truth, a third party solution is perhaps something that America needs right now, if this is to be the case. A 'third way" might really inspire the other two to reflect on their current course. I like your train of thought.. but how can we be guaranteed that the 3rd party would stay neutral and not be intimidated by the other two parties in any way. | |
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| what the hell is wrong with the two party system?
Posted: 6/19/2008 11:35:09 PM | | *sigh* you guys have got to read some theory, a third party will never come into power unless it literally eats the corpse of an existing one. It's the same story everywhere with our system. UK only has two parties ever in power, Canada is the same, USA is the same. The Republican party could only come into fruition upon the death of the whig party. | |
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| what the hell is wrong with the two party system?
Posted: 6/19/2008 11:50:52 PM | | A third party doesn't have to come in to power to be effective . Having other policy options on the table might force the ruling party to come up with better policy rather than just having to do the opposite of the other party. The NDP in Canada has a Socialist agenda that will probably never get in to power , but they have made positive contributions to policy and help keep the bigger two parties in check. | |
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| what the hell is wrong with the two party system?
Posted: 6/19/2008 11:58:15 PM | | If we had a third party then the corporations would have to pay off more politicians. The corporations run the media thereby, controlling the status quo. We won't elect some one we don't KNOW so, the media wont let us KNOW any one the corporations don't want us to know. It's sad but, money runs our country. | |
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| what the hell is wrong with the two party system?
Posted: 6/20/2008 1:26:23 AM | An exerpt from George Washington's farewell address:
I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the state, with
particular reference to the founding of them on geographical
discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you
in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of
party, generally.
This spirit, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature, having its
root in the strongest passions of the human mind. It exists under
different shapes in all governments, more or less stifled, controlled, or
repressed; but in those of the popular form, it is seen in its greatest
rankness, and is truly their worst enemy.
The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the
spirit of revenge, natural to party dissention, which in different ages
and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a
frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and
permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually
incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power
of an individual, and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing
faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this
disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public
liberty.
In the words of Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?" | |
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| what the hell is wrong with the two party system?
Posted: 6/20/2008 4:12:40 AM |
UK only has two parties ever in power, Canada is the same, USA is the same. The Republican party could only come into fruition upon the death of the whig party
Canada actually has 5 parties in power - The NDP, The Liberals, The Conservatives, the Green Party and the Parti Quebecois.
However, all of them are polarised, and the most "conservative" is actually the Liberals, where the Conservatives and PQ (if you aren't Quebecois) are right wing and everyone else is generally far left. | |
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| what the hell is wrong with the two party system?
Posted: 6/20/2008 4:39:56 AM |
Canada actually has 5 parties in power - The NDP, The Liberals, The Conservatives, the Green Party and the Parti Quebecois
How many of them have formed a government? 2, The conservatives, and the Liberals. In first past the post systems you'll have other parties, but they'll never hold the reigns of power. (Green Party in the USA, Liberal Democrats in the UK, NDP Parti Quebequois in Canada)
A third party doesn't have to come in to power to be effective . Having other policy options on the table might force the ruling party to come up with better policy rather than just having to do the opposite of the other party. The NDP in Canada has a Socialist agenda that will probably never get in to power , but they have made positive contributions to policy and help keep the bigger two parties in check.
they're increasingly marginalized, They receive less seats than their voter proportion deserves, and lets be honest, they haven't kept the Liberals in check for 3 decades. | |
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| what the hell is wrong with the two party system?
Posted: 6/20/2008 4:43:04 AM | | For the present system to look good, you have to compare it to the other choices. Given the fact that this government provides the people with the ability to change the government, if it is not working for them, they should change it so that it does. Or else they can sit on their rear ends and make noises complaining, sounding like their favorite TV show complainers. | |
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| what the hell is wrong with the two party system?
Posted: 6/20/2008 5:16:19 AM | I've felt that we've needed a third (or fourth or fifth) party for quite a while now. In every election (except for the two times "W" was running I voted democrat) I vote for one of the third party guys. I was really rooting for Ross Peroit the first time around (I was still a little naive and actually thought he had a chance). Sure, he was a little nuts, but in a good way. If more people would just vote third party instead of religiously voting for whoever has the proper letter after their name (D or R), then maybe we can get a few independants into office, and once there's a few it'll be easier to get more in there.
Hmm... maybe all the third parties should team up and have their own primary, and pick one third party person to run in the main election. Whatever parties didn't get their candidate chosen wouldn't really get what they want in office, but they aren't getting it anyway. At least by throwing all their support to one person they stand a chance of changing the system, which would make it possible for them to eventually get their way somewhat in political issues. | |
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| what the hell is wrong with the two party system?
Posted: 6/20/2008 5:30:33 AM |
Hmm... maybe all the third parties should team up and have their own primary, and pick one third party person to run in the main election. Whatever parties didn't get their candidate chosen wouldn't really get what they want in office, but they aren't getting it anyway. At least by throwing all their support to one person they stand a chance of changing the system, which would make it possible for them to eventually get their way somewhat in political issues.
Third parties by their nature are either very specific in their platforms (Green Party) out of the mainstream (Communist party) or local (Bloc Quebecois)
It's like trying to herd cats, really what needs to be done is a system reform whereby votes are never wasted, like most modern democracies. | |
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| what the hell is wrong with the two party system?
Posted: 6/20/2008 6:09:09 AM | | You mean like removing the electoral college? I agree, but unfortunately it's not very likely to happen any time soon. The status quo supports the two parties, if some independants can manage to get in despite that, then they'll be in a position to shake things up a bit from the inside, making it a bit easier for the next independant, and so on, until the needed reforms are done and can be pushed through congress. | |
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| what the hell is wrong with the two party system?
Posted: 6/20/2008 6:26:36 AM | | .... but wait charles, don't these parties have to come up with a coalition so that there is in effect a multi party system? i mean, don't the major parties still have to play ball with the other minor parties? | |
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| what the hell is wrong with the two party system?
Posted: 6/20/2008 7:00:49 AM |
but wait charles, don't these parties have to come up with a coalition so that there is in effect a multi party system? i mean, don't the major parties still have to play ball with the other minor parties?
Hasn't been a coalition government in a very very long time. We're currently in a minority government, but this is actually a very rare situation. The one strength of the first past the post system in a parliamentary system is that it usually produces majorities this is a strength because it provides stability for the ruling party until the next election starts.
Unfortunately what it does produce is governments that represent the wishes of a often tiny fraction of the voters.
so what's the point of forming coalitions? isn't that why the Italian parliament falls apart every few years?
The Italian government is a poor example, their system is broken in its own way, namely they have too low of a cut off % for representation.
Look to Germany for a more reasonable system of modern governance. Proportional representation , and relative long term stability, combined with regional representation. | |
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| what the hell is wrong with the two party system?
Posted: 6/20/2008 8:28:28 AM |
If the third party were to remain neutral what would be the point of having a third party? We don't want the extremist fringes of the left and right to be joining the 3rd party.. that would not be progress. | |
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| what the hell is wrong with the two party system?
Posted: 6/20/2008 9:38:48 AM |
We don't want the extremist fringes of the left and right to be joining the 3rd party.. that would not be progress. If the third party was centerist then the extremists of either end wouldn't be interested in joining it. But that doesn't mean they'd have to be Switzerland. Side with the Ds when they're being more sensable on one issue, and side with the Rs on some other issue when they're the ones making more sense. | |
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