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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window      Mod Threads Home login  
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 Author Thread: Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
 Bluesman2008

Joined: 4/2/2008
Msg: 1
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Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/20/2008 1:32:12 AM
These people are sickening. Screw the 4th amendment. We don't need it, right? Right. The best government telecom money can buy. If you're as outraged as I am, contact your representatives in government and TELL THEM! If we don't make our voices heard, this country will circle the drain and go the way of the dinosaur.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/19/AR2008061901545_pf.html
 NwMke

Joined: 8/1/2007
Msg: 2
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Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/20/2008 3:19:40 AM
.
Yeh and unfortunately we can only vote them out AFTER the damage is done and you know it wont come up again to be repealed.
.
 MacKevinized

Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 3
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Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/20/2008 5:08:41 AM

Under the surveillance agreement, which is expected to be approved today by the House and next week by the Senate, telecoms could have privacy lawsuits thrown out if they show a federal judge that they received written assurance from the Bush administration that the spying was legal.

The proposal marks a compromise by Republicans and the Bush administration, which had opposed giving federal judges any significant role in granting legal immunity to the phone companies.

The legislation also would require court approval of procedures for intercepting telephone calls and e-mails that pass through U.S.-based servers -- another step that the White House and GOP lawmakers previously resisted.


I like the idea that there's proof of the bush administration telling the phone/isp companies they had to comply. After all they were probably bullied into making illegal taps by bush and his cronies.
This will redirect those lawsuits to be pointed directly at bush and his administration. They were the ones who ordered the illegal activities.

It is really reiterating that wiretaps need to be under court approval.
 ronjo58

Joined: 2/10/2006
Msg: 4
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Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/20/2008 5:37:33 AM
Well the Democrats sure heard your voices. It seems they will agree to these bills as long as they get spending money. From the same source that was posted:

[http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/19/AR2008061901545_pf.html ] :

Taken together, the bills -- two of the last major pieces of legislation to be approved by Congress this year -- suggest that Bush still wields considerable clout on national security issues but now must acquiesce to Democratic demands on favored domestic priorities to secure victory.
 teachpeace

Joined: 9/19/2007
Msg: 5
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Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/20/2008 7:37:10 AM
I'm wondering if it's worth is ronjo even tho' I know plenty of people that desperately need that extension on unemployment benefits....
 jack-d-ripper

Joined: 2/25/2008
Msg: 6
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Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/20/2008 8:09:14 AM
.

This Sucks.... Much like the War funding....



.........."Senator Russ Feingold, the Wisconsin Democrat who pushed unsuccessfully for more civil liberties safeguards in the plan, called the deal “a capitulation” by his fellow Democrats. "

.........“The lawsuits will be dismissed,” Representative Roy Blunt of Missouri, the No. 2 Republican in the House, predicted with confidence.



June 20, 2008
Deal Reached in Congress to Rewrite Rules on Wiretapping
By ERIC LICHTBLAU

WASHINGTON — After months of wrangling, Democratic and Republican leaders in Congress struck a deal on Thursday to overhaul the rules on the government’s wiretapping powers and provide what amounts to legal immunity to the phone companies that took part in President Bush’s warrantless eavesdropping program after the Sept. 11 attacks.

The deal, expanding the government’s powers in some key respects, would allow intelligence officials to use broad warrants to eavesdrop on foreign targets and conduct emergency wiretaps without court orders on American targets for a week if it is determined important national security information would be lost otherwise. If approved, as appears likely, it would be the most significant revision of surveillance law in 30 years.

The agreement would settle one of the thorniest issues in dispute by providing immunity to the phone companies in the Sept. 11 program as long as a federal district court determines that they received legitimate requests from the government directing their participation in the warrantless wiretapping operation.

With some AT&T and other telecommunications companies now facing some 40 lawsuits over their reported participation in the wiretapping program, Republican leaders described this narrow court review on the immunity question as a mere “formality.”

“The lawsuits will be dismissed,” Representative Roy Blunt of Missouri, the No. 2 Republican in the House, predicted with confidence.

The proposal — particularly the immunity provision — represents a major victory for the White House after months of dispute. “I think the White House got a better deal than they even they had hoped to get,” said Senator Christopher Bond, the Missouri Republican who led the negotiations.

The White House immediately endorsed the proposal, which is likely to be voted on in the House on Friday and in the Senate next week.

While passage seems almost certain in Congress, the plan will nonetheless face opposition from lawmakers on both political wings, with some conservatives asserting that it includes too many checks on government surveillance powers and liberals asserting that it gives legal sanction to a wiretapping program that they contend was illegal in the first place.

Senator Russ Feingold, the Wisconsin Democrat who pushed unsuccessfully for more civil liberties safeguards in the plan, called the deal “a capitulation” by his fellow Democrats.

But Democratic leaders, who squared off against the White House for more than five months over the issue and allowed a temporary surveillance measure to expire in February, called the plan a hard-fought bargain that included needed checks on governmental abuse.

“It is the result of compromise, and like any compromise is not perfect, but I believe it strikes a sound balance,” said Representative Steny Hoyer of Maryland, the House Democratic leader who helped draft the plan.

Perhaps the most important concession that Democratic leaders claimed in the proposal was a reaffirmation that the intelligence protocols are the “exclusive” means for the executive branch to conduct wiretapping operations in terrorism and espionage cases. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi had insisted on that element, and Democratic staff members asserted that the language would prevent Mr. Bush, or any future president, from circumventing the law. The proposal asserts that “that the law is the exclusive authority and not the whim of the president of the United States,” Ms. Pelosi said.

In the wiretapping program approved by Mr. Bush after the Sept. 11 attacks, the White House asserted that the president had the constitutional authority to act outside the courts in allowing the National Security Agency to target the international communications of Americans with suspected terrorist ties, and that Congress had implicitly authorized that power when it voted to use military force against Al Qaeda.
 glamour6

Joined: 4/7/2008
Msg: 7
Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/20/2008 8:22:30 AM
I see some of you are still stuck in the pre-911 mode.
 Crash1967

Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 8
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Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/20/2008 11:52:51 AM
....i'm stuck in a due process mode....
 ronjo58

Joined: 2/10/2006
Msg: 9
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Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/20/2008 12:18:30 PM
[....i'm stuck in a due process mode.... ]

The major means of survival is the willingness to change battle plans when a new threat comes along. I am against taking away due process. When it comes to our citizens and residents. I am for the geneva convention rules when it comes to our enemies. But it seems the terrorists do not want to play by our rules. I am convinced that they mean business and do not give a rats behind about our due process,unless it applies to them in their favor. The same with geneva convention rules. In spite of this, we have to show that we are better than they are. At least while we are winning. When it comes down to ultimate survival though, all gloves will come off. All the talk won't mean anything then. You can tell it to the wind.
 itechman42

Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 10
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Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/20/2008 1:32:44 PM
when a new threat comes along.


What will be the next threat to come along in the eyes of this or a future administration? US Citizens strongly opposed to some extreme policy and gathering dissension against said policy via blogs and web site campaigns? I guess that administration could consider the blogger to be an "enemy combatant"... they could almost make even a valid argument of such.

There has always been viable means in place to monitor suspected terrorists with due process. There's no new and better apparatuses in place by the Patriot Act, simply no due process and nothing limiting it to just terrorist communications.

Brush up on your Orwell, then look around. I have trouble distinguishing between his once fictional world and the one in which we live now. His very writings show what happens when ideals such as the Constitution are replaced or ignored to rely solely on the human frailties of leaders. Frailties such as greed, fear, narcissism, etc.

Believe it that when Bin Laden and his buddies sat around planning 9/11 and it's desired outcome, this very issue was a desired result among others. What many people consider as us fighting the threat is actually the threat being realized. This is another direct hit by the terrorists and another front to fall to Al Qaeda.
 BobInGlenwood

Joined: 11/23/2005
Msg: 11
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Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/20/2008 4:06:41 PM
i agree with you,its an entirely new world .. i myself have nothing to hide that any government agency would care about .. many seem to think the CIA wants to find out how their aunt mable makes her secret sauce .. the same people who are crying now are the same ones who will blame the government for not doing enough if a terrorist kills their loved ones
 evnstevn

Joined: 1/11/2008
Msg: 12
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Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/20/2008 6:46:23 PM

the same people who are crying now are the same ones who will blame the government for not doing enough if a terrorist kills their loved ones

Don't look now but your boys didn't do diddly squat even after a daily briefing landed on a certain someones desk titled, OBL Determined To Strike Inside US. Only later did they poke out their chests and barrel into a disaster disgracing us as a country of torture along the way. And still there is no shortage of right-wingers willing to excuse it all.

 glamour6

Joined: 4/7/2008
Msg: 13
Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/20/2008 6:58:54 PM

i agree with you,its an entirely new world .. i myself have nothing to hide that any government agency would care about .. many seem to think the CIA wants to find out how their aunt mable makes her secret sauce .. the same people who are crying now are the same ones who will blame the government for not doing enough if a terrorist kills their loved ones
I think the diagnosis would be similar to paranoid schizophrenia emphasis on paranoia.
 Crash1967

Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 14
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Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/20/2008 9:09:39 PM

the same people who are crying now are the same ones who will blame the government for not doing enough if a terrorist kills their loved ones


... for as much as the "right" blames the left for government interference in their lives i find it odd they expect the government to take care of them on a military level. if you are dumb enough to live in a place that would be a target and not know how to defend yourself or your family then you deserve what you get.... ya'll talk about responsibility but it seems it has its VERY definite limits.....nobody told you to live in a metropolitan area or be dependent on a system that is built out of toothpicks..... it is your choice... grow up and take responsibility...

... you rely on the government and its institutions to feed you, clothe you, and defend you... that is your weakness....

not even your average afghani expects so much out of its government....
 glamour6

Joined: 4/7/2008
Msg: 15
Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/20/2008 11:18:49 PM
Not to change the subject but those who live below sea level should also not expect the Government to bail you out, house you, feed you and cloth you indefinately.
 ronjo58

Joined: 2/10/2006
Msg: 16
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Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/21/2008 6:18:50 AM
[What will be the next threat to come along in the eyes of this or a future administration? ]
I will never understand why people turn a blind eye to the obvious. Iran and Israel are on the brink of war. Think that might be a threat? A Presidential candidate with extreme liberal policies and suspected Islamic background,may be elected. Socialism may very well be a realism. Especially under a democrat congress and a democrat President. The recent comments of two liberal Senators strongly indicate this:

Maurice Hinchey (D-NY) has called for the federal government to seize control of oil companies. In a Washington Examiner editorial piece, Rep. Hinchey said, “We [the government] should own the refineries. Then we can control how much gets out into the market.”
Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) took the same approach, saying to oil industry executives: “Guess what this liberal (referring to herself) will be about? This liberal will be all about socializing - um, uh … will be about … basically … taking over, and the government running all of your companies.”
source:American Family Association | P O Drawer 2440 | Tupelo, MS 38803 | 1-662-844-5036

Maxine Waters let this be known quite clearly didn't She?
 evnstevn

Joined: 1/11/2008
Msg: 17
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Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/21/2008 6:58:08 AM
The ''socialism is horrible'' argument only works if you don't bother to look at countries with better standards of living than ours. Yeah, in many categories they're much better off than we are.

Your statement that Obama has a "suspected Islamic background" shades the truth which is typical of right-wingers.

 Crash1967

Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 18
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Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/21/2008 11:30:14 AM
.... well, stevn.... the fear machine is in good working order......
 jack-d-ripper

Joined: 2/25/2008
Msg: 19
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Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/21/2008 11:43:19 AM

Maurice Hinchey (D-NY) has called for the federal government to seize control of oil companies. In a Washington Examiner editorial piece, Rep. Hinchey said, “We [the government] should own the refineries. Then we can control how much gets out into the market.”



The oil companies don't want to build refineries, ...1 permit request since 1975.... what is your answer......

???

What about the 4th ? The Dem's suck and are in the pocket of special interest.....
 ghostwalker3952

Joined: 6/17/2008
Msg: 20
Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/21/2008 11:21:31 PM
Your privacy rights went out the window when Reagan was in Office.

It was cemented in when the Patriot Act was signed.

Google gangstalking sometime. It's a global pandemic affecting millions of people that are forcibly stripped of ALL privacy.

Privacy?
Not.
 Bluesman2008

Joined: 4/2/2008
Msg: 21
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Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/22/2008 12:34:19 AM
Obama will reverse all that nonsense as soon as he takes office. He'll restore the constitution.
 Bluesman2008

Joined: 4/2/2008
Msg: 22
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Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/22/2008 1:29:10 AM
Yes he will.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/06/21/politics/horserace/entry4200105.shtml
 readyornot57

Joined: 1/19/2008
Msg: 23
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Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/22/2008 7:30:38 AM
I think there is much more possibly of a Republican party policy killing me than a terrorist killing me.

For example, how many people have died in the U.S. as a result of Republican policy of non existent gun control laws in the past twenty years?
How many died from Republican love for the tobacco industry?
How many died from Republican blindness towards the lack of affordable healthcare?

Compare that to how many died from terrorism over the past twenty years.

More importantly, how many will die in the future because of Republican desire to not do anything about clean air and water. Their special interests groups would be so upset.
Compare that against all the terrorist bulls##t and you will see that Republicans can kill more Americans than any terrorist group could ever dream of.
 readyornot57

Joined: 1/19/2008
Msg: 24
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Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/22/2008 7:34:46 AM
Bob in Glenwood......have you ever heard of the term "political prisoners"
I would not put that past the conservatives wackos.

Conversely, I would protest on YOUR behalf if Obama jailed you for your political beliefs.

that is the difference between us.
 glamour6

Joined: 4/7/2008
Msg: 25
Well, there goes your privacy rights right out the window
Posted: 6/22/2008 7:36:34 AM

More importantly, how many will die in the future because of Republican desire to not do anything about clean air and water. Their special interests groups would be so upset.
Firstly.. one has to be alive to enjoy air and water so a good national security plan must be in place so all of us have the benefit of breathing and drinking.. however imperfect the air or water is.. we can work on that but we must preserve ourselves first.
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