| Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
Posted: 6/20/2008 4:57:48 AM | Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
A Quebec father has decided to appeal a decision by a judge who ruled he had no right to stop his 12-year-old daughter from going on a school trip, even though the girl has already gone on the outing.
The dispute began in May when the girl had a disagreement with her stepmother. That prompted the father to forbid the girl to go on a three-day outing with her classmates to celebrate their last year in elementary school. The girl then moved to her mother's house.
The parents, who live in the Gatineau region of Quebec, are divorced, and the father has legal custody.
Last week, Quebec Superior Court Madam Justice Suzanne Tessier ruled the girl could attend the outing despite her father's wishes. She went on the trip this week.
Kim Beaudoin, a lawyer handling the father's case, said the judge's ruling raises unsettling questions for families.
"It's dangerous to let kids play their parents. They have to learn to respect rules," Beaudoin said in an interview on Thursday.
Beaudoin said her client feels the judge had undermined his authority over his daughter.
"He doesn't think a judge should be allowed to take away a punishment," she said. "And he doesn't think another parent should be allowed to say 'Well, come live at my house, and you won't have to live that punishment.'"
Miriam Grassby, a family law attorney in Montreal, said it's not that simple.
"In Quebec, even if a parent has legal custody, both parents retain parental authority," she said. "If one parent has custody, the parents still have to make the decisions jointly."
The girl's lawyer, Lucie Fortin, maintained on Thursday that she exhausted all other avenues - including negotiating with Ms. Beaudoin - before presenting the petition to the court.
"This trip will not be possible next year," said Ms. Fortin. "It's the end of elementary school. It'll never come back. It's once in her life."
She also said it is an isolated case, and disagreed that the ruling would open the door for other children to rush to court whenever parents try to punish them.
"It's very, very rare," she said, adding that she finally decided to present the petition to the court last Friday because the girl's trip was planned for Monday
Ms. Beaudoin is preparing to file a formal appeal. | |
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| Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
Posted: 6/20/2008 7:07:42 AM | This is totally insane.
I have a strong feeling the mother may have encouraged her daughter to take legal action.
What kills me is that any court even heard the case, let alone ruled against the father. I believe the public should step in IF there is any type of abuse going on, but in this case the father did nothing wrong aside from removing a couple of PRIVILEGES to punish the child for her actions.
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| Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
Posted: 6/20/2008 7:24:40 AM | | This "Judge"..And I Hate To Call Her That..Should Be Removed At Once...We Have Enough Problem's Now Trying To Keep Our Young People Out Of Jail...Without This Type Of Foolishness Being in The Media Spotlight...This is A Family Matter..Not A Matter For The Court's...What Will Be Next? | |
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| Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
Posted: 6/20/2008 3:29:34 PM | | Wow. I guess up in the great white north, things are different, than here. The father had every right to deny the little spoiled girl to go, and what in the hell does the court have the rights to get into this. I guess they were there when she needed her diaper changed, being breast fed, teething, kindergarten, new school clothes, maybe even helped cut the umbilical chord HUH??? I feel Dad did all the right things, and I will back him up in every way. Hey, you Canadien judges, lawyers, and rights advocs, should stick to hockey. You got that down pat I think. | |
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| Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
Posted: 6/20/2008 3:43:50 PM | nascarnut56, I think it's because it is so boring up here.
Watching a news breaking story on a sidewalk being vandalized is rivoting stuff.
I bet the lawyers were bored and this was fun for them.  | |
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| Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
Posted: 6/20/2008 3:51:24 PM | | Looks like Canada is losing its freedom, like we already have here in the US, there are way to many stories here to throw stones at Canada.we have simliar rulings on all kinds of issues where its clear the average Amercian is under a form of tyrany and most dont even know it.In our schools they can teach any crap they want (like we come from monkeys) and so many other things(teachers teaching kids about sex) by age 12 13 etc.of course its nuts for a judge to tell a father or mother what they can do with thier children(unless they were sexual abusing or beating a kid All the time) they say here a parent cant hit a child, thats bull shit kids sometimes need disipline, no im not saying aways or a beat down. Canada must be folling big brother US cause we "ve been wacked here for qiute some time | |
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| Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
Posted: 6/20/2008 3:51:37 PM | How ridiculous is it for the courts to allow a child to "play" their parents. So what this is a once in a lifetime trip, there are consequences for behavior and the sooner a child realize this the better. Missing the trip was not a cruel punishment.
The courts should be helping parents uphold parental authority, not undermining it. | |
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| Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
Posted: 6/20/2008 4:14:02 PM | | I look at it this way her dad had every right to take that trip away. My mom took prom and senior trip away from my brother. Its a parents right to disipline their child as long as it is safe and reasonable. This situation is both. | |
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| Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
Posted: 6/20/2008 4:31:32 PM | | This is insane. Since when do the courts decide whether a child can go on a class trip or not? So now we're going to have teenagers taking thier parents to court because they didn't buy them designer jeans or let them play Wii at a friends house or didn't get them what they wanted for thier birthdays... ugh, this judge is a wacko. Does she even have kids of her own? Although the mother is mostly to blame, she should have never let her daughter get as far as to go to court. To me this is obvioulsy the mother trying to "over rule" the father and get in good with her daughter. The judge should have sat the girl down and told her that this matter has no place in a courtroom and to listen to her dad and to "suck it up sweetheart, lifes not fair". | |
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| Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
Posted: 6/20/2008 4:34:12 PM | | And further more, as I peruse through the newspaper here, we had parents tie a boy to a tree, for what I don't know of yet, and the boy died. Now what the hell is that? Capital punishment is in order for that here, and I would surely support that verdict. An eye for an eye is what i always knew of. I sure hope they get the death penalty for that, but I bet an insane plea will get them food and water. | |
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| Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
Posted: 6/20/2008 4:35:24 PM | Some divorced parents make it too easy to set up conflicts where the children are the tools of war.
And some children know being a tool of war has some nifty advantages.
My biological mother and father got along okay after their divorce.
My stepmother and father did not at all. They had a silent war of attrition going on.
My step sister and I both got spoiled and/or used at times as a result. Hilarious. | |
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| Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
Posted: 6/20/2008 4:53:16 PM |
She also said it is an isolated case, and disagreed that the ruling would open the door for other children to rush to court whenever parents try to punish them.
Wow, well it may have been an isolated case, but give them an inch and eventually they'll take a mile. I completely agree that the court had no business making that decision. Had it been a punishment where it involved abuse or something along those lines, then of course the court should be involved but I don't think that was the case. I also agree that the mother most likely had something to do with that. Stupid, stupid people... | |
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| Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
Posted: 6/20/2008 8:07:38 PM | LOL! This is NOT an isolated case at all...it has been and is being done on a daily basis now in Quebec courts. The ONLY reason this one comes out is because someone in the media FINALYY listened to a custodial parents complaint against the court. The big reason for listening... "a custodial" parent. Forget all that BS about having "parental rights" and crap...non-custodial parents do NOT have rights, and the courts will NOT back them up. The kids get a lawyer for themselves in todays courts. It's all about "what's 'best' for the kids". Not what is best for the fmaily...sometimes what is "best for the kids", such as punishments that take priveledges away is considered "too much" in todays PC society.
Sorry folks....the family takes another blow from the courts...and there ain't thing one to do about it. Non-custodial parents will be using this to have the kids "go live with them". Lot of crap about to hit the courts.....and more screwed up kids "controlling" the parents.
Gee..thanks Judge.....LOL...hope the SAME comes to YOU! | |
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| Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
Posted: 6/21/2008 1:49:21 AM | How did this even make it in front of a judge in the first place ?
Of course the judge is overstepping her authority here. We're not talking about a crime having been committed, we're talking about a kid who didn't get her way. This is ridiculous ....just ridiculous.
Gee...glad to know that this is where are tax dollars are going. How did we ever manage to stack the benches with so many moronic judges who can't put anything in perspective or take a step back to look at the big picture? If the judge had done her job , she'd have dismissed the case outright simply because it wasn't within her mandate to hear it in the first place. No, it's not the end of the world but it's definitely another nail in the coffin of common sense.
So you can't hit your kid. You can't punish them by making them skip a meal. You can't yell at them. Now apparently, you can't even take away privileges in an effort to discipline them. How the f*ck are parents supposed to raise the next generation if they tried to do so according to what the courts have ruled ? Do Canadian judges get their jollies by undermining a parent's authority ? Is this part of some secret agenda to outlaw parenting of any type ? I mean, that sounds crazy but here we have a court ruling that a father can't discipline his own daughter by taking away something she had no charter right to in the first place. Does it say somewhere in the Charter of Rights that "...all children must be allowed to attend special field trips even if they blew up the house next door ..." ?
I have no idea what this girl did to earn this punishment. Maybe the punishment her father doled out didn't fit her "crime". Maybe it did. I do know that as long as her father isn't violating any laws, it's not a court's place to tell him (or any parent) how to raise his child.
Unfreakingbelievable. | |
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| Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
Posted: 6/21/2008 8:52:32 AM |
Ummm..which is worse...a 12 year-old suing her parent...or the media circus that would surround what has to be a VERY dysfunctional family?
Granted it is a dysfunctional family, by many definitions most families are. As for the media circus. I have not seen many reports about this case. I am glad the OP posted it for more of us to see. I did a search and took a while to find anything else about this.
This is something that should be brought to the forefront. This case and any others like it are showing where parents have no rights to raise their kids.
With the courts allowing this type of case to even be presented to the judge is only to continue to add to the number of dysfuntional families. | |
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| Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
Posted: 6/21/2008 10:12:38 AM | Maybe if I took my daughter to court, they'd make her clean her room? 
Ummm..which is worse...a 12 year-old suing her parent...or the media circus that would surround what has to be a VERY dysfunctional family?
Uh... 12 year old suing her parent.
You say this is a VERY disfunctional family, when in fact the family is probably no different than any other family out there (divorced or not). The issue is with the court system and the fact that this claim was even heard by a judge and that she goes on to over step the fathers decision over a stupid class trip. This had absolutly no place in court. I'm glad this was in the media, it lets us parents know where the future of disciplining our kids might end up... in front of a judge and jury. Scary. | |
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| Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
Posted: 6/21/2008 1:05:43 PM |
The dispute began in May when the girl had a disagreement with her stepmother. That prompted the father to forbid the girl to go on a three-day outing with her classmates to celebrate their last year in elementary school.
I am going to take a minority view here, and say that parents shouldn't use this kind of punishment without thinking long and hard about the real lesson they are teaching. The trip is obviously a huge deal to a kid of that age. If the child and her stepmother don't get along, does Dad think this is going to improve their relationship? Or is he setting the stage for a lifetime of resentment? | |
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| Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
Posted: 6/21/2008 1:32:05 PM |
I am going to take a minority view here, and say that parents shouldn't use this kind of punishment without thinking long and hard about the real lesson they are teaching.
I don't think it's up to anyone else to determine what kind of puishment is appropriate in an instance like this. We can't impose our values on other families. Many children get left out of activities that other children participate in, such as Muslim children not being allowed to attend high school dances. Should the courts intervene in those situations too?
If the child and her stepmother don't get along, does Dad think this is going to improve their relationship?
I'm sure this court decision is going to ease all tensions between the stepmother and the daughter. | |
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| Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
Posted: 6/22/2008 7:49:38 AM |
I am going to take a minority view here, and say that parents shouldn't use this kind of punishment without thinking long and hard about the real lesson they are teaching. The trip is obviously a huge deal to a kid of that age. If the child and her stepmother don't get along, does Dad think this is going to improve their relationship? Or is he setting the stage for a lifetime of resentment?
We don't know what the disagreement was about. For all we know the child could have been way out of line, and yes a punishment such as taking away a privilege may have been the correct punishment for it.
As for it being a huge deal, sometimes this type of punishment is the only way to help sink in to a childs mind that what they did was wrong. Many kids are not phased by taking away T.V. privilages or being grounded to the house. So, this could have been the only thing the father could find that would solidfy the fact his daughter did something wrong. We don't know and we were not there.
The point is, why is it ok to allow the courts to make a ruling on this. No one was physically abused or neglected. There was no reason that this should have ever gone to court! | |
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| Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
Posted: 6/22/2008 9:06:39 AM | | See there; I just knew the Lackasensesillyus virus which has made the USA legal system terminally ill would eventually spread into Canada. You're nice people, you don't deserve this bug. And Canadian friends, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there is no known cure, the symptoms just get worse and more widespread, infecting more courts, more politicians, and more areas of your life. I'm so sorry......... | |
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| Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
Posted: 6/22/2008 9:08:44 AM | Although the article did not say what the mother's wishes were, my guess is that the girl’s mother was for the trip or it would have never made it to court. Just because the father has primary custody doesn't mean that the mother cannot have her way on the raising of her child. Was the girl’s mother motivated to “stick-it” to her ex-husband? Did the fact that the judge was female bias her decision in favor of the mother over the father? What kid has the kind of money it takes to retain an attorney? This is not a very well written article.
This would never happen in the USA just because it takes so many months to get in front of a judge what with the overbooked court calendar. Here in the USA, the trip would have been long over by the time the court even heard the case. All I can tell you is that when the day comes that my kid has their attorney contact me to negotiate terms of their punishment, my kid better have enough money left over for a couple of armed body guards.
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| Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
Posted: 6/22/2008 1:42:36 PM | The thread in the parenting forum on this indicated that the girl had inappropriate pictures on the Internet. Now, most parents are not going to take away something that special if this has never been discussed, so we can assume that she was both engaging in dangerous behavior and already breaking rules with which she was familiar, so I suspect this punishment was chosen because it would actually get through to the girl that the issues is serious.
My daughter put up pics that, because of the styles, showed some cleavage. She was not even thinking about that, just whether the faces of she and her friends looked good. When I told her to take them off, she looked at them and they were gone just about as quickly. People tend to pass judgment without considering that what the media labels a disagreement, might be a bit bigger thing, like the "incident" they had at my son's middle-school that was actually a riot that resulted in nearly 40 arrests. | |
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| Quebec girl takes father to court over class trip
Posted: 6/22/2008 2:12:36 PM |
as I peruse through the newspaper here, we had parents tie a boy to a tree, for what I don't know of yet, and the boy died.
That is so sad - the poor kid! Left him there all night and day - tied to a tree! What kind of idiots do that? I hope they release the cause of his death | |
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