| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/20/2008 5:10:10 AM | The Associated Press
A New York Times report published Friday quoted U.S. officials as saying more than 100 Israeli F-16s and F-15s staged the maneuver over the eastern Mediterranean and Greece in the first week of June. It said the aircraft flew more than 900 miles, roughly the distance from Israel to Iran's Natanz nuclear enrichment facility, and that the exercise included refueling tankers and helicopters capable of rescuing downed pilots. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has said he prefers that Iran's nuclear ambitions be halted by diplomatic means, but has pointedly declined to rule out military action.
Is it the US's responsibility to support Israeli objectives?
Is the middle east conflict more about protecting Israeli sovereignty than democracy and oil?
Will siding with Israeli incur the wrath is Russia, China?
What do you think? | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/20/2008 5:20:36 AM | Training missions and secret plans do not automatically mean action is imminent. all armies train for the possiblities...or they lose if the possiblity happens.
Still, both governments are full of people who want to show Iran a lesson...and ignore what power it has in Lebanon and Iraq. Perhaps that's why Israel jumped so quick into a peace treaty w/ Hamas this week? give the contrarians one less issue to raise?
most importantly...the exercise was out in the open for the world to see. Saber-rattling, perhaps? A sign that Iran hasn't been forgotten about? | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/20/2008 5:22:02 AM | better to piss off the Russkis and the Red Chinese than to have Iran deliver us a nuke by one of their proxies such as Hezbollah.
The Israelis are the only friendly nation in the Middle East, and I include the supposed "friends" of ours, the Saudis. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/20/2008 8:00:00 AM |
Is it the US's responsibility to support Israeli objectives?
Due to the indoctrination of the American electorate by the unrelenting propaganda that has been waged in the US (for the past 40-years) about Israel and the Middle East ... most Americans seem to think that we do have such a 'responsibility'... and their 'thinking so' is proof of the power of 'perception management' ... because the ideologies that comprise the 'special relationship' between Israel and the US are fabricated and completely counter to the classic ideals of National Sovereignty.
In his farewell address to our fledgeling Republic, our first President George Washington warned of the grave dangers to a nation of harboring a 'passionate attachment' to other sovereign nations ... it creates all sorts of calamities and carries a distortion and corruption into all internal political processes.
Sage advice from one of our founders that we have, to our peril, since ignored; as everything that Washington had predicted has come to pass and is easily recognized if one cares to look at the situation 'dispassionately'.
Is the middle east conflict more about protecting Israeli sovereignty than democracy and oil?
Well it is certainly NOT about promoting any sort of democracy, not American, or Israeli, or Iraqi.
Yes, in regard to protecting Israel's tactical hegemony, and then yes it does have a bit 'to do' ... with oil, however not in the general sense that is commonly understood, but in the following regard ... within the tenets of religious Zionism is the notion that a significant portion of land that is currently occupied and ruled under Arab control is actually and 'rightfully' a part of Eretz Israel ... from the Nile to the Euphrates. So within the hardcore religious segment of Israel's settler movement exists the notion that those Arab nations are actually usurping Israel's God given inheritance which includes all of that land and all of the resources extracted from those lands ... the oil.
Will siding with Israeli (against Iran) incur the wrath is Russia, China?
Of course it will ... but China much more so than Russia, as any interruptions to Iranian oil will hurt China much more.
Caw | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/20/2008 8:48:53 AM |
The Israelis are the only friendly nation in the Middle East, and I include the supposed "friends" of ours, the Saudis.
With friends like Israel, who NEEDS enemies? We have pumped trillions of our tax dollars to them, given them our most advanced equipment, had to rationalize and defend any and every act they do--and veto like crazy in the UN, had to take enemy stances against every other nation in the area on their behalf (who were then driven to the USSR, against us), and in the process, we have invited/challenged the oil nations to punish us, economically.
Israel has spies in our government, and when we find one, we just complain and send him home with a frown (it wouldn't be nice to keep 'em in jail!). They intentionally sink our ships and we say we, you know, sorta wish they'd, well, stop it. And when we pointedly tell them not to do something, they just laugh, flip us off, and do it, anyway--and we just smile, shake our heads, laugh, and say, "those rascals!"
Our relationship with Israel is really the tail wagging the dog. We have no policy over there that is not first approved by Israel. So, it's kinda fruitless for us to debate these matters. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/20/2008 9:17:53 AM |
Our relationship with Israel is really the tail wagging the dog. We have no policy over there that is not first approved by Israel. So, it's kinda fruitless for us to debate these matters.
I would add support from the neocons with dual nationality. A clear conflict of US military interests. I think we know with high certainty the US will support Israeli actions.
The issue centers on consequences of US support of Israeli aggression on Iran.
Will the US congress appropriate billions for military support of Israeli?
How will Russia react?
How will China react?
How will NATO react? | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/20/2008 9:32:07 AM | better to piss off the Russkis and the Red Chinese than to have Iran deliver us a nuke by one of their proxies such as Hezbollah. The Israelis are the only friendly nation in the Middle East, and I include the supposed "friends" of ours, the Saudis.
Oh my GOD! Of course they're friendly, the States basically stole the land for their Homeland and has continued to support and arm them as they oppress another people. AIPAC, just approved the next president, one that will kowtow to Israel's every whim...because basically if he didn't, he would simply disappear from the running. I think Israel is a far bigger threat to start the inklings of the next World War than Iran is at this point. But the media has done it's job of doping the general public, with yet more stories about evil Islamic doctrine...
Peace
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/20/2008 10:35:18 AM | You know maybe a war with Iran will be a good thing…
Gas will shoot to 10 or 12 bucks a gallon
Our economy will completely collapse as goods can’t make it to market
Heating oil will be so expensive this winter that 1000s or maybe even 10,000s of poor American seniors will freeze to death in homes they can’t afford to heat
We will go trillions more into debt debasing the dollar even more leading to it being dropped as the worlds reserve currency which will further the complete collapse of our economy
10,000s of our soldiers will die in counterattacks on our forces in Iraq and Afghanistan
Will further alienate ourselves from the rest of the world and create a new rallying call for even more terrorist around the globe
And if retaliation for our attack leads to a attack on the homeland we can look forward to martial law and a furthering of our sink into a police state too!
Ummm… shoot… what was the up side of this again? | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/20/2008 10:42:17 AM | Maybe the US is just... being sucked... dry.
Consider the current financial crisis, the war debt the neocons have conned us into, the incredible sums given to Israel (per capita more than any other forgein nation, I understand)... that we may well be sucked into yet another conflict is perhaps a small metaphor, or a piece reflecting the whole... | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/20/2008 11:43:59 AM | June 20 (Bloomberg)
Iran Promises Blow Job
A senior Iranian cleric reacted to reports of the Israeli exercise by saying his country would respond to an Israeli attack on nuclear facilities with a "heavy blow".
Economic Impact of Impending Blow Job
Crude oil rose today following the Times report that Israel held a rehearsal for a potential bombing attack on Iranian nuclear targets, and as the weaker dollar enhanced the appeal of commodities as a currency hedge. Oil traded at $134.89 a barrel at 1 p.m. in New York, up $2.96 for the day. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/20/2008 12:55:54 PM |
better to piss off the Russkis and the Red Chinese than to have Iran deliver us a nuke by one of their proxies such as Hezbollah.
The Israelis are the only friendly nation in the Middle East, and I include the supposed "friends" of ours, the Saudis.
Yeah, your right. Why worry about one small nuke. Let's piss off the countries that have thousands of big ones. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/20/2008 1:16:30 PM |
Is it the US's responsibility to support Israeli objectives? > NoseyNeighbor
When Israel tells America to jump, the only question is 'how high?'
The thorny issue of Israel, a cancer in the backside of the Western world, in my opinion, is now coming to the fore. There will be a physical assault on Iran in due course. There is no question about it. America and the rest of the Western nations (the so-called Coalition of the Willing - whoever is available and who wants to keep in with Israel) will join forces in attacking Iran. Remember that Israel has nuclear capability. The hypocrisy here is astonishing. But then, Israel never let morals get in the way of their objectives.
- Soul Union | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/20/2008 10:03:51 PM | From Mehr News: The US. Israel Provide factual Information About Iran/ Lavrov
Tehran. June 20 (MNA) -"We have been repeatedly asking our American and Israeli colleagues, who insist that Iran is certainly involved in making an atomic bomb, to provide factual information about this matter." Russias' Foreign Minister said.
Irans' nuclear standoff should be resolved through engaging Tehran in dialogue, Lavrov said at his Friday address to an international conference.
"We have been repeatedly asking out American and Israeli colleagues, who insist that Iran is certainly involved in making an atomic bomb, to provide factual information about this matter, so far we have seen none, and the same conclusion was made by the International Atomic Energy Agency," Russias' Foreign Minister added.
Sergey Lavrov said Iran should be engaged in dialogue and encouraged to cooperate with the UN nuclear monitoring agency.
"Atomic weapons, so far we have seen none" he said.
As long as the IAEA reports to us progress in its' relations with Iran, as long as Iran closes the issues which were of concern to the IAEA and this process continues, we should avoid any steps which could undermine this very important process," he said, speaking in English.
"The key to involving the Iranian issue is involvment," Lavrov said.
"We must involve Iran, engage Iran in resolving the Iranian nuclear program,...but also engage Iran in constructive, respectful, serious dialogue on Iraq and Afghanistan, on the middle east in general." | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/21/2008 2:01:40 AM | | The Russian as always threw the monkey wrench in Iran. They armed Iraq and their military equipment proved junk. All the junk Saddam had from Russia and China sucked. Same thing with Iran. Iran can scream about big blows like Iraq used to. In the end, they will start from scratch. Israel has been more than patient so have we. It's time to bomb Iran once and for all. Russia will make money again by rebuilding Iran's reactors. Then those reactors will get destroyed again. We can live with high gas prices, we're already doing it. No fear about temporary higher prices. Bush better hurry up before Israel gets the all glory. Perhaps a joint venture since Iran brags about being this great superpower with all of that Russian military crap. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/21/2008 4:18:39 AM | Ummm..how can we (the US) be "sucked into" a "crisis" that we created?
Israel is a client-state of the US and exists primarily because the US sees fit to support them militarily and economically.
Iran is a country that the US has spent the last 30 years "punishing" because they dared to stand up to us.
Any "conflict" that exists between Israel and Iran is essentially a proxy war perpetrated by the US.
Say Hello to $7 gas. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/21/2008 9:11:24 AM | One must consider who is running the US.
Learn more about international corporations/banks, AIPAC, the current neocon administration, English and American history in the 1800's, and you will gain an interesting perspective. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/21/2008 10:12:28 AM | The last months of Bush are a very dangerous time. He knows the Iraq fiasco will prevent any support for his desire to attack Iran. He needs either, A) to convince a front man to provoke them (Israel) and then come to their rescue as the world savior, or B) a real or fabricated precipitating event. Given the unstable, thin ice state of things, this does not need to be a cardiac arrest like 9/11. Just a little sneeze like the death of a few soldiers or a torpedoed oil tanker blamed on Iran will do the job, resulting in congress singing on the steps, and a defend the homeland speech hours before throwing us into another hopeless conflagration.
Scary times for thinking individuals. May lightning strike me, but perhaps it really is better right now to be part of the dumbed down masses and join the 15 y.o. girls with mistakes in their tummies and air in their heads.... | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/21/2008 12:19:24 PM | Our current leadership and both major presidential candidates have made it quite clear that Israeli sovereignty is more important then our own.
War with Iran will do one thing for sure. No-one will worry about gas prices anymore. The economy will collpase completely and no-one will have anywhere to drive to anyway.
Of course, total collapse of the US dollar may be the plan anyway. Much easier to implement drastic measures for global financial centralization when the primary currency is destroyed. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/21/2008 4:45:30 PM | Yes, the US will go gleefully into any conflagration with our ally Israel. It is stupid, but our alliance with Israel has never served our interests well. It is the agenda of the Evangelicals that the Jews be in Jerusalem when "judgement day" comes. Add to that the rightly earned paranoia that Jews have about their survival as a race and it is clear that it is a religious and fear-based public policy that has guided our relationship to Israel. So much for separation of church and state. Not to mention our future economic needs which it has been determined will require us to be in the Middle East in perpetuity because of our dependence on oil. Our policy with regard to Israel is quite possibly going to lead us to an Armageddon of our own making.
I can't believe more Americans don't understand the danger we are facing. Certainly it is partly that the Jewish lobby has become a powerful force in our political life, such that the average Americans voice is lost in the chorus. It is also that the Evangelicals seized their opportunity when Bush stole the White House. I am unclear whether even an Obama Presidency will stray far from conventional wisdom (or lack there-of) regarding Israel, and dealing with Iran is a vital part of that policy. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/21/2008 4:49:24 PM | | israel gets about 3 billion dollars a year from us in aid; egypt gets about 2 billion. to wreck the us economy would only take one nuclear weapon, taking out an area like greater atlanta. israel would serve as a military platform should the middle east erupt against us for whatever reason. while i dont see bush as any kind of agent for any religious group, and he has become a shrinking violet under the hot light and glare of the media..... of course with the election of a democratic candidate, we probably will just lose country by country to the enemy as we started doing under jimmy carter, the one term georgia governor ; an equally unqualified and inexperienced president who campaigned on the "change" and "outsider" platform. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/21/2008 5:24:23 PM | | show_me_please: are you implying that only a Republican can keep us safe? Surely not. It would mean you think Bush has done a good job and we are safer and even most Republicans have seen the light and are no longer drinking the koolaide. Had we had Gore in the White House, we would have never invaded Iraq, we would not have lost the respect of the world, and Iraq wouldn't be the hotbed of terrorism it is today. Oh, and we would already be working on addressing global warming, but I digress. We would be economically better off and the world a safer place if we didn't have the the neo-con agenda being implemented by the real evil-doer...."dubya". | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/21/2008 9:25:16 PM | If Al Gore was president he would have gone nuclear on Iraq and Iran. When a liberal in power is forced to act tough, he over does it with everything at his disposal. Clinton in Kosovo for instance and Johnson in Vietnam.
Liberals don't fight, they only want to talk. It's the nanny persona developed by having a controlling, feminist for a wife. Then to prove their manhood, they F' up.
The sheer repetition of lies about Bush is wearing people down. There is not a liberal in this country worthy of kissing Bush's rear end, but the weakest members of the herd run from Bush. Compared to the lickspittles denying and attacking him, Bush is a moral giant, if that's not damning with faint praise. John McCain should be so lucky as to be running for Bush's third term. Then he might have a chance. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/21/2008 9:54:04 PM | Lets nuke Iran-- that way we can all pay 7 buks a litre for gas-- and 20 dollars a gallon for water-- ahhh the pollies would love those extra taxes:):) | |
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