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 Author Thread: Whatever happened to TRUTH?
 TheStefano

Joined: 6/15/2008
Msg: 1
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/21/2008 6:54:01 AM
In the morning news, SA is discussing plans to raise oil production but appears to be saying that the supply meets the demand, as do other oil exporters, and it is speculation that has driven the price of oil up; namely, Wall Street, probably that herd of money that pulled out of subprime mortages.

Consumer nations say no, it's a supply problem.

What's the truth?

America says Iran has malicious intent with its building a nuclear reactor, while Iran says it is peaceful, only for energy. Some Americans are also saying we need more nuclear reactors for energy here at home as well.

Bush and Saddam did their "he said/she said" dance years ago and what the truth was at the time, we know now but I wonder what was known then?

It seems that a lot of our big issues today hinge on one thing: knowing the TRUTH. Our difficulties seems to be very speculative and it seems that knowing the truth is a solution to at least some.........is this real, so complex or difficult it is hard to know the truth or do we just live in an age of the LIE?

Why is the truth so difficult to find nowadays? What is the problem? It seems these things should be easy enough to determine the truth of, are they....or arent they?
 teachpeace

Joined: 9/19/2007
Msg: 2
view profile
History
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/21/2008 8:18:29 AM
This is one of my favorite subjects and I believe, in order to unravel some of the 'mystery' with this we need to start with the individual. In one of Walsch's books he lists five levels of truth for the individual. Tell the truth:
To yourself about yourself
To yourself about another
To another about yourself
To another about them
To everyone all the time.
If we were to then take these simple premises and transfer them onto nations, wouldn't it be interesting? Do I absolutely believe that "free market" interests, including the ongoing availability of the Enron loophole, means that another huge group of speculators is willing to see Americans starving so that they can enjoy huge speculative profits? Sure......they laughed about 'little ole ladies in California paying $250 a month for electricity' at Enron. We all know this......we've heard this over and over.
So that begs the next logical question, how do so many people not only get okay with this but defend it? How is it possible for them to see THIS as 'the American way'? Very, very simple; they're lying to themselves about themselves, about others and about who we are as a country. In the face of hardship on the countenances of their families and friends they somehow see themselves as immune from these market forces.........for now anyway. There is this huge cognitive disconnect in these folks fueled by anxiety (always) and only experiences of adversity will teach this bunch.
"The Age of the Lie" would be a great title for a book......M. Scott Peck published the singularly unpopular "People of the Lie" eons ago that came at this topic from the self-help genre and was addressing individual psychopaththology. Redirecting this energy to a national level i.e. 'how countries get sick' is another matter entirely. Just follow the lies......for starters.
What's stunningly obvious today is that many Americans are experiencing this 'waking up' i.e. elevation of consciousness that precedes and /or accompanies embracing what they've known to be the truth all along. There simply needed to be this catalyst/messenger in place to 'bring them' to it. Ergo some of the remarkable changes we're seeing today.
Lovely thread topic Stefano...
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 3
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History
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/21/2008 8:32:07 AM
Well, you'll have to go back and re-read Leo Strauss and Edward L Bernays if you want to find out the answer to your questions.

The latter is the father of "spin" , and the former the man who took Plato's "Noble Lie" and turned it ignoble.


The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.

- Edward Bernays
Propaganda (1928)


Bernays, the nephew of Freud, knew what he was talking about. He's still highly regarded by many, and his theories and practices are still taught today.

He's probably the most important man you've never heard of.

Compare his description of 1928 America to today's world, especially in America.
 TheStefano

Joined: 6/15/2008
Msg: 4
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/21/2008 9:28:37 AM
Well, there is a saying, "We do not see the world as it is, we see it as we are" but I would also say, "We do not tell it like it is, we tell it the way we want it to be".

OPEC sees their supply meeting demand, an oversupply means their prices per barrel come down ........the Bush spinners say it is not Wall Street speculators, it's the lack of supply because of demands from China and India and Russia, etc.....so, of course, we need to increase the supply and what better way than to open up drilling in the US, eh?

Myself, every single time I read something about spikes in the cost of oil it is always due to "market" jitters, or anticipated summer driving or winter heating or a full moon.... sounds a lot like speculators to me, not so much about the actual cost of drilling nd producing the stuff, but supply and demand for the futures and commodities.........paper, not oil.
 teachpeace

Joined: 9/19/2007
Msg: 5
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History
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/21/2008 9:37:53 AM
"We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of..."
Until we're NOT. Were the "mental processes and social patterns of the masses" fully predicted and controlled in the 60's? No, but an unfortunate amount of impetus behind that level of change was invested in three men who were shot. So we became disheartened....that needs to never happen again.
The more interesting focus is what exactly happens to people that fosters and encourages this ability to step out from the masses and say, "This isn't MY truth. This isn't what I'm about" and that becomes "This isn't what we're about." Some of them were just 'made' that way and they know how to lead. We now need to invest in what fosters this level of resiliency.
I think there's a genuine risk that we're overly influenced by the media, the superficiality of Hollywood, the 'quick and easy' solution and the political jargon that doesn't make us think too much and focuses on short term gratification. But the neo-Cons fatally 'lied to themselves about others' in this context. And then, who knew? Along comes this interesting next generation with internet in hand. They're talking to each other and they don't appear to have the older generations' investment in the status quo....makes you wonder who/what they're accepting influence from.
 TheStefano

Joined: 6/15/2008
Msg: 6
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/21/2008 9:47:26 AM
teachpeace, well, it's so sad how "life imitates art", our "truths" become what is massaged into us by the media and commercial influences and they are not true at all.

I think "truth" has become a casualty of the 21st century.
 Megloman

Joined: 5/22/2008
Msg: 7
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/21/2008 9:47:38 AM
Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened.-- Winston Churchill
 teachpeace

Joined: 9/19/2007
Msg: 8
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History
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/21/2008 10:13:09 AM
That level of dissonance is essential, Stefano, and is always....ALWAYS the precursor to change. Most of us can't 'read it and get it.' We have to experience these 'other versions of reality' and embrace this knowledge that only comes from being way off the beaten path in order to develop this understanding. That knowledge, again, is "This is NOT me." This is an incredibly painful stage and frankly, some don't survive it. "The lostness is to be envied" and it is never the antithesis of truth. It is an essential stage on the way to it....very, very simple.
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 9
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History
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/21/2008 10:27:16 AM
Perception trumps reality, every time.

If you think that bacon and eggs is an "All American" breakfast ?

You can thank Bernays for that.


The term "banana republic" actually originated in reference to United Fruit's domination of corrupt governments in Guatemala and other Central American countries. The company brutally exploited virtual slave labor in order to produce cheap bananas for the lucrative U.S. market. When a mildly reformist Guatemala government attempted to reign in the company's power, Bernays whipped up media and political sentiment against it in the commie-crazed 1950s.

"Articles began appearing in the New York Times, the New York Herald Tribune, the Atlantic Monthly, Time, Newsweek, the New Leader, and other publications all discussing the growing influence of Guatemala's Communists," Tye writes. "The fact that liberal journals like the Nation were also coming around was especially satisfying to Bernays, who believed that winning the liberals over was essential. . . . At the same time, plans were under way to mail to American Legion posts and auxiliaries 300,000 copies of a brochure entitled 'Communism in Guatemala--22 Facts.'"

His efforts led directly to a brutal military coup. Tye writes that Bernays "remained a key source of information for the press, especially the liberal press, right through the takeover. In fact, as the invasion was commencing on June 18, his personal papers indicate he was giving the 'first news anyone received on the situation' to the Associate Press, United Press, the International News Service, and the New York Times, with contacts intensifying over the next several days."

http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1999Q2/bernays.html


Like the French say, " the more it changes...."


One of his early public relations strokes was on behalf of Venida hairnets. When women began to bob their hair after World War I, they discarded hairnets, much to the distress of hairnet manufacturers.

Venida, an industry leader, called in Mr. Bernays, who conducted a public relations campaign for the product. Among other things, he got artists to praise the "Greek coiffure" look that hairnets gave their wearers. And he got a labor expert to urge labor commissioners around the country to insist that women working with or near machines wear hairnets for their own protection. Much favorable publicity ensued.

In this, as in similar campaigns, Mr. Bernays's approach was oblique. The emphasis was on hairnets, not on Venida. Indeed, Venida was rarely mentioned at all.

http://www.nytimes.com/books/98/08/16/specials/bernays-obit.html


Perception, not reality.


In the 1920’s it was considered inappropriate for women to smoke. Realizing that they could double their market the American Tobacco company hired a man named Edward Bernays to change that perception. Bernays, who is considered the father of the public relations industry, decided it would be effective to associate smoking with freedom and womens suffrage. He payed models to march in women’s rights parades smoking cigarettes and referring to them as “Torches of Freedom”. Then he made sure all of the major papers and magazines noted this fact and prominently featured pictures of them.

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/05/31/
chesterfield-ad-i-really-dont-know-if-i-should-smoke/


And then you let "free will" do the rest....


"The average citizen is the world's most efficient censor. His own mind is the greatest barrier between him and the facts. His own logic proof compartments, his own absolutism are the obstacles which prevent him from seeing in terms of experience and thought rather than in terms of group reaction.

-- Bernays, Crystallizing Public Opinion

http://www.nndb.com/people/802/000113463/



Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know.

Defense Secretary
Donald Rumsfeld


You know ?
 slysterling

Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 10
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History
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/21/2008 10:50:09 AM
"To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge."
Confucius
-------

Knowing that we know nothing...the only true knowledge consists in knowing we know nothing and in knowing we know nothing makes us the smartest of them all--Einstein
----------------------

They deem him the worst enemy who tells them the truth.-Socrates
----------------------------

The more you know, the less you understand-Shakespeare
--------------------

Those who are unaware they are walking in darkness will never seek the light-Bruce Lee
--------------------
OP:
Whatever happened to TRUTH?

Those who speak do not know. Those who know do not speak.- Confucius
 annasthasia

Joined: 5/4/2005
Msg: 11
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History
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/21/2008 11:02:13 AM
Interesting question...

I once heard an economics professor state, after a very boring lecture and I was in la la land... I zoomed in when he said that according to many powerful leaders ( the ones behind the public leader that no one knows about), 99 % of the people are basically stupid.

Give them the illusion of well being and make sure they have the basic three echelons of the Maslow scale (1- food and water, 2- clothes and shelter, 3 - acceptance in a community) are met and you can manipulate them into doing, buying or thinking the way you want them to.

Also, I heard an other professor who's specialty was in management, state that the truth to any situation is unfolded often 100 years after the fact when all the key players are all dead and the generation that belonged to the era is also long gone.

I found that to be true in the political history of countries. The sad part is that no one wants to know the truth a 100 years or so later. The issues may be different but the style of management of the leaders is the same and the masses always seem sooooo easily manipulated.

Anyway... without being sarcastic, the truth will be known when we are all dead and maybe at that time, our future generations will CARE to know about the TRUTH...



Yes Montreal Guy... "Plus ça change, plus c'est pareil."

 Uptowner

Joined: 2/1/2007
Msg: 12
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History
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/21/2008 11:16:45 AM
Is this about oil?
Our planet is multi billion years old.
The modern concept of the use of petroleum is barely over 100. On the time line, we are at the first moment of the blink. And already, we are in crisis.

The solution is not, "Drill here, drill now, use it faster".
Until we address that, there is nothing to discuss.
 TheStefano

Joined: 6/15/2008
Msg: 13
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/21/2008 2:58:28 PM
No, it's not just about oil. You look at the major things happening in the news today and it's all "he said/she said", like the Jerry Springer show.

I just wonder what happened to all the "objective" people?

What happened to facts?
 Vancer

Joined: 10/29/2006
Msg: 14
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History
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/21/2008 3:20:41 PM
Truth finally bit the dust to Truthiness in 2005.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness
 ontour2008

Joined: 6/7/2008
Msg: 15
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/21/2008 3:30:14 PM
Journalism has failed in this country, and the world for that matter. The lies broadcast by the extremely biased liberal medias are now the perceived truth.
 show me please

Joined: 6/14/2008
Msg: 16
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History
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/21/2008 4:33:48 PM
truth has given way to the pursuit of money. its all about greed. if you want to use the media as an example, with deregulation, the nets threw away the fairness doctrine. now we have networks and cables OPENLY rooting for their candidate in an election, or doing all they can to engineer an election. the newspapers too, tho they are quickly becoming obsolete. the entertainment media has NO ethics at all, and its ruined pop culture to the extent that its now cool for high school girls to get pregnant, or for deadbeat dads to run out on their kids, and be "playas".
 teachpeace

Joined: 9/19/2007
Msg: 17
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History
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/21/2008 6:33:37 PM
You know, Vancer, I checked out that link and, after laughing for about an hour, realized that I think you found the answer to this question!! For the *cough* uninformed, this link: http://www.comedycentral.com/colbertreport/videos.jhtml?videoId=24039 shows Steven Colbert's first mention of the term 'truthiness' and I swear.....it'll give all of us the laugh that we appear to need right now. The link you provided, Vancer, is quite priceless. This show took home a Peabody, you know.....what fun.
Bang the fracking drum, baby.
Obama '08
 MrGoodMan2

Joined: 6/1/2008
Msg: 18
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History
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/21/2008 8:40:57 PM
Truth always takes a back seat where money is concerned.
I suppose it's a question of morality and interpitation.

What better way to ride the up & coming rocky road than to have a big fat bank balance?
So you have to ask yourself one question. Do you feel lucky? Well do ya........Sorry, going off on a tangent there

The question is: If you had the oppotunity to make a lot of money by slighly bending the truth, enabling you and your family to have an easy ride, foresaking faceless nobodies in the process, would you?

The world really does spin to the tune of 'I'm alright jack' so you could say there are about 6.7billion versions of 'truth'

It's the way nature works also, survival of the fittest, so it's not hard to see why it is like it is.
 Romantic Heretic

Joined: 10/24/2007
Msg: 19
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History
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/22/2008 6:51:50 AM
Truth, unfortunately, is what a person says it is.
 BUGGSY

Joined: 4/26/2006
Msg: 20
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History
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/22/2008 7:12:38 AM
Truth?
Y' all can't handle the truth!
 Paumanok

Joined: 6/15/2008
Msg: 21
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/22/2008 7:14:50 AM
Look online for balanced presentations and avoid the propaganda. Then decide for yourself what to believe is true. There will always be an argument raging in the mainstream press because it is nothing more than a display to shape public opinion. Each side is extreme, false and antagonistic. Then off to the side and there for review are reports filed by independents whose journalism is not bought and paid for. But they are available only through some effort to find them. It takes work to be informed if you want truth.
 slysterling

Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 22
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History
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/22/2008 9:20:31 AM
msg.11:"""...99 % of the people are basically stupid..."""
I'd say there's some truth to that statement.

msg.16:"""...its all about greed..."""
ya think? lol. Greed and avarice. Who said money makes the world go round? I have a sneaky feeling that this 'truthiness' problem has been around a lot longer than Stephen Colbert and his satirical look at this trendy new word 'truthiness'. Sounds more like mainstream fodder for the best-seller's list at the local Chapter's to have some new catchy titles for the "New Age" wannabees to sit around in big armchairs drinking Starbucks lattes thinking they've got it all figured out.:

OP: msg. 13: """...What happened to facts?..."""

...In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in Esquire that the White House didn't like about Bush's former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House's displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend -- ...
The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do..."

Without a Doubt
http://www.ronsuskind.com/articles/000106.html

Not to be bothered with Bushco bashing since there's more than enough of that sprinkled thru these forums, but it sounds vaguely familiar to what Suskind later himself refers to:

...power, and its influence on truth. Power, the argument runs, can shape truth: power, in the end, can determine reality, or at least the reality that most people accept—a critical point, for the administration has been singularly effective in its recognition that what is most politically important is not what readers of The New York Times believe but what most Americans are willing to believe. The last century's most innovative authority on power and truth, Joseph Goebbels, made the same point but rather more directly:

There was no point in seeking to convert the intellectuals. For intellectuals would never be converted and would anyway always yield to the stronger, and this will always be "the man in the street." Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect. Truth was unimportant and entirely subordinate to tactics and psychology.

The Secret Way to War
http://foi.missouri.edu/polinfoprop/sctwaytowar.html
--------

Heck, Machiavelli was preaching about the benefits of pragamatic truth all the way back in the 1400's with his Prince, and as was already referenced, Plato chatted it up about lies many centuries ago.

Now how many folks was it again that still believe Sadam had something to do with the Twin Towers? The truth?...Truth is, it's a bit of a stretch to think there is some great awakening going on in today's society. Society seems to be getting dumber with each passing day while they strive to make their's a more enlightened society.

The Disillusionaries - 4 Public Awareness Questions
1. Who is your Vice president?
2. What year did 911 happen?
3. What's your first Amendment?
4. Who is your defence secretary?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=awtj-zxoaoM

Not to be confused with anything of an empirical practical study, all the video goes to show really is that the average person here in north America probably couldn't remember the truth if it hit them over the head, never mind looking for the truth. Most people can't be bothered with it.

Like the one poster said, some folks can't handle the truth, and most folks can't remember it anyway. Like Goebells said, truth isn't all that important if it runs counter to a pre-ordained agenda. But, if you're to believe this quote, then it's all just our own fault for the most part anyhow:

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Sir Winston Churchill
---------------
Truth didn't die in the 21st century...The truth has been an issue for a long long time.

"The strength of a nation derives from the integrity of the home." - Confucius

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." - Albert Einstein

"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods." - Albert Einstein

"In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies." - Sir Winston Churchill

"True genius resides in the capacity for evaluation of uncertain, hazardous, and conflicting information." - Sir Winston Churchill

"Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal." - Martin Luther King, Jr

"Men are swayed more by fear than by reverence." - Aristotle

"A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious... On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side." Aristotle

"Patriot: the person who can holler the loudest without knowing what he is hollering about." - Mark Twain

"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native criminal class except Congress." - Mark Twain

"There is no act of treachery or meanness of which a political party is not capable; for in politics there is no honour." - Benjamin Disraeli

"The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes." - Benjamin Disraeli

"The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants." - Albert Camus

"Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard, solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

"A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual doom." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

"Allow the president to invade a neighboring nation, whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such a purpose - and you allow him to make war at pleasure." - Abraham Lincoln
--------------------------

OP:
Why is the truth so difficult to find nowadays?

It's been that way for a long time. A very long time. Just watch the movie or read the book "All the President's Men" if you think dishonesty in the government is fuelled by some new term truthiness. Even good sales trainers know that successful selling is founded in the Socratic method of directing prospects minds into given channels, usually by asking a series of questions in order to obtain the desired responses. It's all just the basic functioning of the human mind. And really, politics is very much like sales in the sense that whoever's in power has to sell you on his or her ideas. Ethical salespeople know they don't have the right to violate the laws of God or the rights of their fellow human beings in order to have the right to use others people money and lives to further their own personal lives.. Somehow, I don't think the higher powers are often held to the same level of accountability.

"Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see."

Finding out the truth is an issue that has been going on long before we arrived on this crazy comet called spaceship earth and will continue to be an issue long after we've left....It's just one of the great paradoxes of life.

Sara: You're an animal!
Manny: No, worse! Human! Human!...

"No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore I am no beast." (from Richard III.)
Runaway Train
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089941/

MG:
Perception trumps reality, every time.

Or as a longtime, now deceased, prepcook down in the maritimes once told me some 25, 30 years ago: "Bullsh1t baffles brains."
 ghostwalker3952

Joined: 6/17/2008
Msg: 23
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/22/2008 10:52:50 AM
Truth is everywhere.....if you're willing to search for it.

One reason you have to search for it comes from a Hitlerism:
"If you tell a lie long enough, over time, people will look back on as the truth."

Some women (and men) cannot receive a compliment because it doesn't fit what they "believe" to be true.

Hitler also said:
"Tears are words the heart cannot express."

Truth requires:
Someone who "wants" to hear it;
Someone who "wants" to find it;
Someone who "wants" to tell it.

Truth still exists for both absolutes and relative.

How deep are you willing to dig for it?
 WarmthNpassion

Joined: 7/18/2007
Msg: 24
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History
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/22/2008 10:54:54 AM
In my view, this is the best thread of the year. You like many of us wonder about the truth and why it is never clear anymore what is true. There is great power and great wealth is marketing a particular brand of truth. What you hear on the news influences who you cast your vote for in elections, what you buy and basically what you think about almost everything. Can you see how directing your view and the millions like you is a very profitable business? The news media these days is only providing propaganda with the purpose to control your view which provides them with power and wealth.

The actual truth varies but I’ll hit a few major topics:

Middle East: Everything done in the Middle East by the USA is to defend Israel without exception. In 1990, Iraq attacked Kuwait because Kuwait was stealing Iraq's oil through slant drilling. Do you really think that Saddam Hussein would have refused to sell us oil? We are not there spreading democracy or there preventing atrocities, or there to stop terrorism or are we there for the sake of oil supplies.

Expensive oil: The vary nature of the uncertainty of war creates fear which escalates prices. Future exchanges are bidding up the price of oil but these are international so not under the jurisdiction of the USA. The USA is also spending huge sums of money that we do not have to run these wars and that has devalued the dollar and a devalued dollar buys less on the world market. Domestic oil supplies are cheaper but blocked by environmentalist groups. Federal and State taxes on each gallon of gasoline are about 5 times the profit that the oil companies make on a gallon.

Terrorism: What alternatives do simple people have against a super power invading their way of life other than to attack in the only way they have left? The USA is only hated because of our support of Israel. Israel already has our best war machines and nuclear weapons. I’ll give you one guess who gave them all of that stuff along with about 6 billion dollars each and every year.

President: Your choice this year is between a Marxist (Democrat) and a Fascist (Republican). These candidates are pre-selected by special interests in the USA before anyone even gets to vote. The news media is one of those special interests.

Is there anything else I can help you with today?
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 25
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History
Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/22/2008 11:20:39 AM
Well, time for a "history" review. Let's see if we can find some examples of somethings that prove what I'm saying about how reality is gently massaged by the PR specialists to sell us ideas.

Remember those cheering crowds of Kuwaitis, waving those American flags, after being liberated by US/coalition forces in Desert Storm ? How they all went out and bought or made those flags, to welcome the people that freed them from Iraqi repression ?

They never did, that was a PR event staged by the Rendon group.



Spin Cycles: Spinning war
Sheldon Rampton Interview

They have been fairly closed mouth about their work but have on occasion given speeches, and in one speech for example that John Rendon gave to US Naval Cadets, he told the story - he said, "Do you remember how at the end of the first war in Iraq how you saw Kuwaitis lined up waving American flags on television as they were, you know, as they were greeting American soldiers in Kuwait". He said, "Did you ever wonder how those flags ended up in their hands? That was my job back then". That tells you that those iconic moments that you see on television, that people watch and they think this tells us something about the meaning of what is happening in this war - those don't happen by accident. There is someone carefully scripting and staging things and making sure that little flags end up in the hands of Kuwatis so that they are there to wave them.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/spincycles/transcript-rampton.html


Unfortunately with PR, you can get "blow back". There's the danger that you will start to believe the spin too.


I think so and you can see very specific examples of that in the case of buildup to war with Iraq. For example, we now know that a lot of the information that the White House relied upon in making its claims about alleged Iraqi weapons of mass destruction came from comments provided by a group called The Iraqi National Congress. As we've explained in our books and as is well documented, The Iraqi National Congress is actually a group that was set up at the instigation of the first President Bush, following Operation Desert Storm and who did he hire to create this group? Who came up with the name Iraqi National Congress? It was a public relations group, the Randen Group and the task for The Iraqi National Congress for which it was created was to create conditions that would lead to the overthrow of Saddam Hussein's regime.

- Ibid


And another thing to think of :


We have a privileged class of communicators and an audience whose role is either to be passive or to accept the will of the privileged communicator that's different from the dialogue that you expect in a democracy. That hasn't changed; that's been part of war propaganda since war propaganda and wars began. One of the things that I think is somewhat different about the propaganda that sold the war in Iraq is the extent to which the communicators themselves used the jargon of advertising and commercial marketing, so for example you had Andrew Carr, the White House Chief of Staff who was asked why they had chosen September of 2002 to kick off their big publicity push, and his response was "Well, from a marketing point of view you don't launch new products in August". That's a rather striking turn of phrase in a way of thinking about things, it's a very straightforward statement that they're selling just as they would a bar of soap.

-ibid


Rendon's even pretty open about it all, in a subtle way.


John Rendon "insists that information is terrain and someone will occupy it, either the adversary, a third party, or US."

Organizing for Combat

"In the Pentagon, in addition to the normal public affairs structure, the Special Plans Office was deeply involved in this effort, supported (with information) by the Iraqi National Congress. There was the Rendon Group, headed by John Rendon who gave media advice to OSD, the Joint Staff and the White House. Finally, there were connections to large PSYOPS activities.

"The Rendon Group worked for both OSD and the Joint Staff during this war. John Rendon says he was part of the daily 9:30 phone calls with the key information players to set themes."

Joint Chiefs of Staff

O'Dwyer's PR Daily reported in June 2003 that Rendon had gone to work for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, providing "strategic communications counsel, media analysis and consultation support services" to the Joint Chiefs, combatant commanders and top military advisors

Afghanistan

Newspapers reported in October 2001 that the Pentagon had awarded Rendon a four-month, $397,000 contract to handle PR aspects of U.S. military strikes in Afghanistan. Rendon and Pentagon officials declined to discuss details of the firm's work, which reportedly included monitoring international news media, conducting focus groups, creating a web site about the US campaign against terrorism, and recommending "ways the US military can counter disinformation and improve its own public communications."

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Rendon_Group


You know Scooter Libby ?


. Miller was also close to Vice President****Cheney's top aide, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, whose sister, Sandra Libby, happens to be John Rendon's wife.

http://www.prwatch.org/node/5509


That's right, he's Rendon's brother-in-law.


I am not a national-security strategist or a military tactician,I am a politician, a person who uses communication to meet public-policy or corporate-policy objectives. In fact, I am an information warrior and a perception manager.

John Rendon
U.S. Air Force Academy speech
1996


"Reality" is a product of what you see and hear, and how it's presented to you, and who presents it.
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