| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 11:56:09 AM | | Hi all... I have been in abusive relationships in the past... More than half of my past relationships have been this way... I am wondering if anyone can tell me how to tell if a new guy is going to become abusive. What are the earliest warning signs? Do you think it is beneficial to tell a new bf about the past and how it affected you? If you don't tell them they are more likely to show signs of abusiveness early in the relationship? Does anyone have ways to bring out the abusiveness sooner so that you can see it for what it is and get out faster before it becomes serious? | |
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| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 12:07:32 PM | | I would suggest you seek councilling. When a person has been in an abusive relationship, there are self esteem issues that need to be dealt with. There are some really good books out there about being abused (verbally/sexually, etc) and many good relationship books that will direct you to the path you should be following in your next relationship. Each of us are responsible for our own happiness, what we will accept as appropriate behaviour in a relationship, and how we let others treat us. I think its great that you are looking to make changes in your life, and I wish you the best. | |
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| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 12:15:21 PM |
Does anyone have ways to bring out the abusiveness sooner so that you can see it for what it is and get out faster before it becomes serious?
Amazingly enough, I've seen women before with this very flawed logic... I'm not sure how this particular bizarre way of thinking originated but it's self-destructive and will not help you. I'll tell you what I've told others who've voiced similar concerns, be careful about the demons you seek because you very likely will find them. Seek the good in people, not the evil... only a fool goes looking for pain.
I think you should consider intensive counseling with a qualified therapist that will be better equipped to help you than anyone here will be. Major issues with fear and trust such as you have, are nothing to play around with. Respectfully, you will likely be sheer poison to any man that loves you, until you can deal with your insecurities and move beyond your past. | |
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| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 12:16:31 PM | I agree with hay.. about the counseling thing.
I believe that "victims" of abuse send out unconcious signals to perpetrators.. Many perpetrators are just like predators and they can see someone's vulnerablities. Another way I look at it is "hooks and loops".. you have a hook or a bent in your soul that attracts that.. they have a hook or bent to seek that out.. and when your paths cross you are attracted to each other.
Same analogy for someone who is an enabler like me.. being attracted to an alcoholic or drug addict. You could put me in a room with 1,000 men.. and only one of them is an alcoholic.. and I will find him and fall in love with him..
So I believe your first order of business is to begin to look at you and your past.. your childhood.. and where the abuse began and get some healing..pull in those hooks so to speak.. learn about yourself.. get some self esteem.. then you can figure out how to tell an abuser.
I do know of plenty of books on the subject and studies done..
You might want to google it.. under "signs of an abuser" or "how to tell an abuser".. | |
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| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 12:21:50 PM | Look for self control and attitude towards things ,if he gets mad easy.
Everyone has the abilty to be abusive, its a choice they make NOT to be.
Therefor if they cant control themselves the possibility is there always. | |
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| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 12:36:24 PM | I have listened, heard and read about these situations countless times and if it's one thing I've learned about men who are abusive, is there are little or no warning signs.
They are excellent actors or can really supress their anger well into an established relationship.
I have only known one man personally, who was abusive (second to my dad but he only hit me not my mom that I know of) and he was such a nice guy. He was the bf of my sister so I really looked up to him in my early teens. He had dirt bikes and fast muscle cars, etc. He really won me over and my family as well.
I think that made it harder for her to leave the situation, cause we all seen him as great guy.
Do you think it is beneficial to tell a new bf about the past and how it affected you
I think it depends. Personally, I would want to know, but I can see other guys seeing that as baggage and weighing down the relationship.
If you don't tell them they are more likely to show signs of abusiveness early in the relationship
I'm not sure guys who are abusive even realize they are, they need help as much as you do. I've confronted my dad many a times about using excessive force on me as a child and he just blows it off as though I'm exaggerating.
I think if you mention it, if anything, they might subconsciously try and hide it for even longer which is no good, cause then it's even harder for you to leave.
Basically, the sooner it happens the better, if you seem to attract abusive men. At least if you catch it early, you can give him an ultimatum(sp):
1) You get professional help in dealing with your anger and stop hitting me
2) You leave and find something/someone more deserving of your time
? Does anyone have ways to bring out the abusiveness sooner so that you can see it for what it is and get out faster before it becomes serious?
Not sure if it's the same, but as a kid I would deliberately do things that I knew irritated my old man, right in his face which would get him fired up quickly.
Obviously what irritates a father and what irritates a BF are going to be quite different.
1) Does he hit a cat or dog harder than nessecary just for being a cat or dog?
2) Does he have little remorse for when he kills an animal by accident, like running over a rabbit while driving.
In my experience, men who have little empathy for life, especially other than human life, have a tendancy to be more abusive.
OP: I think you need to re-evaluate the men you are attracted too (if this is a common occurance). I realize chemical attraction is a b*tch and you can't just change they way you feel, but maybe consider going for guys who 'sorta' do it for you as opposed to the guys who really get you warmed up.
Cheers and good luck in the future. | |
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| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 12:54:25 PM | You can tell that a man is going to be abusive because you are attracted to him and he is attracted to you. Just like some of the other posters have said... you need to seek counseling, not another relationship.
You unconsiously seek out these men and they know right away that they can control you.
I am lucky... I just fall for boys who will take me for granted!
Good luck  | |
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| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 1:18:59 PM | | Learning your boundries...counselling first. It starts with you. | |
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| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 1:28:37 PM | | If you can't get to counselling, read books. I finished a great one recently called "The emotionally abusive relationship". Full of interesting information about why relationships become abusive, the behaviours that may encourage a previous non-abuser to start abusing, and strategies for the abused and the abuser to get out of the cycle. Good luck | |
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| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 1:49:57 PM | More than half of my past relationships have been this way
One posters stated that this type of dysfunctional relationship starts and ends with you. Which is true. Many adult grow up in a dysfunctional family environment and not knowing any different type of life style continue in this emotional state. In short these people are pre-condition for abuse. Still other grew up in normal emotional supporting family and never realizes that they are being abused. Any type of abuse must first and foremost be recognize as abuse and then deal with on a personal level. Okay, now back to your question. Are their red flags when first dating someone if that person can or will be abusive? Well to be honest this is both easy and very hard to answer.
Easy answer: Yes there are ways to know if you might become a victim of family domestic violence. One must first understand what behavior to look for in a person. This requires learning new skills both with understand us (history, temperament and so on) and those that might be possible abusers.
Hard answer: Past abuser hide their history of abuse, blaming the victim for the cause of abuse. They are great at concealing their true nature. They promise never to abuse again only to fail because they never accept responsibility for the abuse. Many time blaming abuse on drugs, alcohol again with the promise to quit. Abuse happen because these people feel threaten due to their own insecurities and need to control the object (you) to feel good about them. Understand that abuse is nothing less then a form of control and manipulation. The abusers live in a state of denial but please understand that the abused also share this denial. Believing thing will get better over time, which it never does. Until the abused accept their share of responsibility for any domestic violence (this can be verbal, emotional, sexual and/or physical) the abuse will never stop. This cycle will continue until something or someone stops it.. | |
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tru218
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Joined: 1/20/2008
Msg: 11 | |
| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 1:59:29 PM | Take everyone else's advice: work on yourself first. YOU are repsonsible for being in an abusive relationship. You are in NO WAY ready for yet another one, good OR bad.
p.s...I just read your profile. You really need help, dear. Advertising that you are likely to "freak out" and disappear says VOLUMES about your issues. GET HELP YESTERDAY!!! | |
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| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 2:02:41 PM | | maybe you are just a naughty little girl that needs to be punished? | |
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| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 2:06:24 PM | ~OP~ Age old questions, I'm afraid. For me, it was just one sentence which moved on to total isolation, verbal crap and then physical. It took some doing to get to that point, but it happened. I was NOT his victim, however. In the beginning, when it felt "wrong" I knew my options and opted to stay. My bad!! I agree with others. Stop dating and figure out "who" you are, why you seem to get into such situations and learn about boundaries. Then you can easily spot the symptoms (signs) and get OUT before you find yourself in that situation once again. JMO  | |
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| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 2:14:44 PM | I don't understand why this thread is being threatened with deletion. This is a real and serious issue and I am so pleased that people are bringing out in to the open, exposing such appalling behaviour & discussing it in such a sensitive way.
I read a really good book - I think it is called something like - Why is he angry. There is also a good site - if you type in 'you are not crazy'.
It does all start with you. It is a valid fear you have but if and when you realise he is an busive type, you have nothing to lose - get him out of your precious life. Only surround yourself with people that validate who you are and cherish you. They have good things to say about you and don't make you feel bad about yourself.
Do not allow anyone to make you doubt yourself or to treat you badly. How dare they.
Counselling is a good suggestion as is reading and research. These damaging people have no place in our lives and we have to set the boundaries on how people treat us. This is your time to change the pattern - it is tough but you need to teach people how to treat you. As Canadian Beef so wisely says - these people are fantastic actors - charmers - but they will show their colours at some point.
Me? I am no longer fascinated by people with 'psycologies' that suck us in.
There is so much to say but I hope this helps
Try not to be driven by needing to be in a relationship. This is your time for you - go girl xx | |
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| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 2:19:53 PM | | In my experience there are signs. You really need to take a break and get some counseling and focus on your needs at this point. If you keep getting into relationships without healing you will always end up with an abuser. | |
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| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 2:24:27 PM | I see a lot of counseling comments and I think the one thing that you need to ask yourself is how long are these abusive relationships lasting? If your staying with these guys for roughly the same amount of time then maybe you should get some counseling. However, if you're tolerating the abusiveness less and less and leaving these guys sooner when they show the abusiveness then it's you're choice in men. Making the decision that you deserve better and will not put up with abusiveness to me says you don't need counseling.
I agree 100% with Canadianbeef's comments especially:
I have listened, heard and read about these situations countless times and if it's one thing I've learned about men who are abusive, is there are little or no warning signs.
They are excellent actors or can really supress their anger well into an established relationship.
I think if you mention it, if anything, they might subconsciously try and hide it for even longer which is no good, cause then it's even harder for you to leave.
Dating is about putting your best foot forward. If some guy ever dates a woman and starts into pyhsical or verbal abuse chance are pretty high that would be the last date. But if there's already an established relationship then the chances of the woman staying is much higher. If the guy knows he's abusive and is a moron and doesn't get help for it and you mention it he will try to hide it.
Best warning signs from what I've seen relate to anger too. Does he get angry easy? What does he do when he is? Does he throw/bang things? Being violent towards things can easily turn to you. | |
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| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 2:26:43 PM |
I don't understand why this thread is being threatened with deletion.
Interesting Paris. I do hope you are wrong about that. Yes I do agree that any type of abuse in very serious and we all need to address this subject. Any type of abuse should never be tolerated in sociality on any level. With education understanding and teaching new skills in avoiding a abusive relationship is a concern for one and all. | |
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| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 2:29:42 PM | | the best advice i could give you is give yourself time to heal and become a strong independent woman before considering to date again. abusers are very clever at hiding who they really are and often pick out vulnable women. if you become a strong person then you will be clear in your mind what you will and wont put up with | |
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| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 2:32:26 PM | It is so untrue that there are little or no warning signs because most abusers subtly start grooming the woman from the very beginning. In most cases, women experience something like Verygreen describes, you get butterflies or a creeping sensation in your spine and you ignore it.
If he has problems he will blame them on other people and paint himself the victim, making you feel sorry for him and making you want to help and heal him.
He will start isolating you from your friends and family by trying to make you feel guilty for wanting to spend time with anyone else but him. He will be critical of things that logical normal people will not be critical of. He will as he becomes more sure you are not going to go anywhere, start telling you are crap so that by the time you realize that he is an abuser whether he has hit you yet or not, you are too afraid and intimidated to leave.
If someone tries to control you, says you cannot talk to Bob who has been your platonic only friend for years, says he doesnt' want you hanging out with Sheila because she is mean to him, doesn't want you hanging around your mother because you are not spending enough time with him. If you have been abused, look back at these things, get the counseling as others have suggested, but at the very least google and buy some books.
There is information all over the Internet and many fine books by people that want to help others not become or continue to be victims. You deserve better, if you start feeling like you are settling, you probably are and should get out then, not months or years down the road. | |
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| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 2:35:46 PM | Abuse is a way of controlling people.
I went out with someone for a year and there was never the slightest bit of abuse.
No sooner had she moved in with me than it started !
Anything I said was suddenly very stupid and my views meant absolutely nothing and she did just exactly as she liked whatever the effect on me.
Sadly only time will tell with abusiveness. | |
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| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 2:50:03 PM | It is so untrue that there are little or no warning signs because most abusers subtly start grooming the woman from the very beginning. In most cases, women experience something like Verygreen describes, you get butterflies or a creeping sensation in your spine and you ignore it.
Yes, there are in fact 20 ( just a few) here on *Dr. Dr Joseph M Carver, PhD web site and welcome those of us concern about this issue to visit his site.
*http://counsellingresource.com/quizzes/loser/index.html | |
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| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 3:25:29 PM | I have friends in the same boat and one thing that bothers me about them is they keep choosing the same type of guy. They dont look at the actions of someone, they hear their words and intentions. They are terrible at choosing boyfriends but you cant' tell them the truth at times because they wont hear of it. They cling to a bad guy like ants to sugar and in reality, they are part of the problem for choosing such poor guys.
I have other friends that pick great guys and do well and have never had this problem.
Some women also poor their sole with their past and it blows guys away.
you need to stop being so into relationships and start finding out why you are making such bad choices. Some women dont take responsibility for their poor choices in guys.
If I'm dating someone and they pour their guts out about abuse right away, i run. You need to seek counseling to find out why you are choosing these guys, and ways to deal with it.
I for one have been careful in my choices of dates, and I'm not going to pay for someone elses mistakes or someone else abusing someone. I'm me, not them.
If you have a pattern of picking this type of guy, its on you. Talk to counselors and get into the deeper meaning. You are the common denominator to all the abuse. It doesnt mean you deserve it, but you are choosing to be in it and stay in it. Looking for an abuser in a relationship is very strange to me. Its almost like that is your obsession now. You need to stop picking abusers instead of picking a guy then hoping he doesnt abuse you.
Its better to be alone than with a bad person. | |
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| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 4:50:45 PM |
I have friends in the same boat and one thing that bothers me about them is they keep choosing the same type of guy. They dont look at the actions of someone, they hear their words and intentions. They are terrible at choosing boyfriends but you cant' tell them the truth at times because they wont hear of it. They cling to a bad guy like ants to sugar and in reality, they are part of the problem for choosing such poor guys.
I have other friends that pick great guys and do well and have never had this problem.
Some women also poor their sole with their past and it blows guys away.
you need to stop being so into relationships and start finding out why you are making such bad choices. Some women dont take responsibility for their poor choices in guys.
If I'm dating someone and they pour their guts out about abuse right away, i run. You need to seek counseling to find out why you are choosing these guys, and ways to deal with it.
I for one have been careful in my choices of dates, and I'm not going to pay for someone elses mistakes or someone else abusing someone. I'm me, not them.
If you have a pattern of picking this type of guy, its on you. Talk to counselors and get into the deeper meaning. You are the common denominator to all the abuse. It doesnt mean you deserve it, but you are choosing to be in it and stay in it....You need to stop picking abusers instead of picking a guy then hoping he doesnt abuse you.
Its better to be alone than with a bad person.
I really could not say it any better than that. Please take heed, the advice is good. | |
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| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 5:44:13 PM | | You state right in your profile that you are a professional victim and that you may run and hide in your shell that you have a history of freaking out and you don't have control of your life. I can just imagine what you say to men in person. When you present yourself as a victim of course men looking for victims are going to move in on you and since you are attracted to men who are abusive, no matter what you tell yourself about not this time, you are sending out the signals plus you have no boundaries. Get professional help, good help, don't just settle on a therapist, get someone you can work with but not one who lets you treat yourself as a victim and not one who's into controlling clients. Beware of bad therapists many go into it because they have so many issues themselves. Something important, don't date until you've gotten some good therapy and don't fool yourself that you are 'cured' before you finish the therapy. A man isn't going to save you from yourself, you have to get in there and do something about your issues and why you think in the victim mode. | |
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| abusiveness
Posted: 6/22/2008 5:49:12 PM | You should get counseling before anything else. It would be too easy for you to slip back into an abusive relationship if you don't fix you first. Really don't risk your well being.
The most telling signs of an abuser are his temper and if he calls you names, leave, don't ask questions just leave.
A man that truly cares for you, no matter how angry he is will never call you names. | |
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