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| Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 6/24/2008 5:04:20 AM | This question just occurred to me. I've just finished reading a post that said, "Have you ever seen 1000s of teenagers worship together."
Devout Christianity is an essential part of the American reality. Yet in Hollywood shows I never see any action depicting religious activities, especially not on the grand scale that some devout centres are having.
If religion is displayed in the movies, it's either scandalous (a priest who sodomizes boys, or a Christian training camp for fundamentalist warrior-children to be released into crusades; etc.) or just plain part-of-anyone's lives, even those of the secular (weddings, funerals).
So where is the action about regular, well-accepted, normal Christian life? Hollywood is so very secular. The moral dilemmas, everything, never hinges upon faith, it's always about a conflict that can be described in secular terms.
Why is that?
I am asking this because I'm genuinely interested in finding out something I don't know. | |
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| Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 6/24/2008 8:08:28 AM | Hollywood is "entertainment".
It is fantasy. It's like reading a fiction novel.
It contains half-truths and a whole lot of speculative conclusions based on that fantasy.
And their bottom line is to "make money" by feeding on the base nature of mankind.
Lets face it.
Honesty, integrity, a good name and reputation don't make as much money as depravity or sexual lust. | |
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| Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 6/24/2008 8:51:45 AM |
If religion is displayed in the movies, it's either scandalous (a priest who sodomizes boys, or a Christian training camp for fundamentalist warrior-children to be released into crusades; etc.) or just plain part-of-anyone's lives, even those of the secular (weddings, funerals).
So where is the action about regular, well-accepted, normal Christian life? Hollywood is so very secular. The moral dilemmas, everything, never hinges upon faith, it's always about a conflict that can be described in secular terms.
Why is that?
Because nobody wants to watch it. At least on the scale you wish it to be seen. It does not sell. Such material is NICHE MARKET. Kind of like how you get a tiny bit of christian devotional material in a big chain bookstore, but if you want the dearth of you you go to a christian bookstore.
The only people that want to see Christian life take centre stage are other Christians. The world is more than just christians.
The kind of thing you want to see does not sell, so it does not get made. When it does get made it ends up straight to video or on religious tv stations.
The REST of the world wants to see religion as a background part of life, like it should be and actually is for most people. | |
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| Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 6/24/2008 9:43:17 AM |
Devout Christianity is an essential part of the American reality. Yet in Hollywood shows I never see any action depicting religious activities, especially not on the grand scale that some devout centres are having.
If religion is displayed in the movies, it's either scandalous (a priest who sodomizes boys, or a Christian training camp for fundamentalist warrior-children to be released into crusades; etc.) or just plain part-of-anyone's lives, even those of the secular (weddings, funerals).
So where is the action about regular, well-accepted, normal Christian life? Hollywood is so very secular. The moral dilemmas, everything, never hinges upon faith, it's always about a conflict that can be described in secular terms.
Why is that?
Devout Christianity is an essential part of the American reality ?? In what Universe? Another perfect example of how christians seem to think that America is supposed to revolve around them and what they believe. America is NOT a christian nation no matter what some think. Even if 80% of Americans were christian it STILL wouldnt be a christian nation because thats not what this country was built on. America is a ccountry that was open too all people from all parts of life. And they bring here their cultures and rituals and we become this big "Melting Pot"! Perhaps you've heard the term? But some people seem to think that because the Protestant Pilgrims were here first they get to claim this land for Jesus.
The Identity of this country is established in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. And NO WHERE in either of those two documents does it state that America is a "Christian Nation" (You can look it up) Hence the concept of "Seperation of Church and State" Now before someone says "Thats not written anywhere", it dosent have to. The Constitution couldnt work if there wasnt.
Religion (Especially christianity) is something that belongs in your heart and mind and remains a personal relationship or ideal that you carry around with you. It dosent belong in the public school systems or anywhere else in public because the "public" is the "State". And Hollywood?..... is part of the "State" Which means it will create whatever will sell. And as everyone knows..."Sex Sells" And nothing is more BORING then religion, christianity, god or jesus. Except of course to christians. Thats why we dont see it expressed as normal everyday life... because it isnt! | |
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| Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 6/24/2008 9:43:19 AM | | While I agree there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in just movies/programming, I think your use of the word "never" and descriptions of the only references to Christian life are inacurate. Altho it is has been out for a few years, the movie "End of the Spear" comes to mind... and a powerful film it was. Recent programs that come to mind include "Joan of Arcadia," "Touched by an Angel," "7th Heaven" and "Promised Land." The movie "The Exorcism of Emily Rose" may not be exactly what you had in mind but the good guys and God win. What else could you possibly want? And I heard the Joshua book series (or at least the initial book) was being made into a movie. You might want to look into that. I thought the books were excellent. | |
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| Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 6/24/2008 1:44:13 PM |
But some people seem to think that because the Protestant Pilgrims were here first they get to claim this land for Jesus.
... No, it was pagan Vikings and Catholic spainiards that were here first of the europeans. | |
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| Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 6/24/2008 4:25:49 PM | It wouldn't be excluded if the 90% of Americans who claim to be religious would watch it.
But even religious people get tired of religion all the time.
For most of them Sunday morning and Wednesday evening is enough.
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| Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 6/24/2008 5:18:42 PM |
The Identity of this country is established in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. And NO WHERE in either of those two documents does it state that America is a "Christian Nation" (You can look it up) Hence the concept of "Seperation of Church and State" Now before someone says "Thats not written anywhere", it dosent have to. The Constitution couldnt work if there wasnt.
Thank you ~  If this country were not founded under the concept of separation of church/state, there wouldn't have been need for our "Founding Fathers" or a Declaration or a Constitution because we'd have adopted and accepted England's particular views on everything. It took brilliant minds to disassemble that situation and evolve into a civilized (per se) singular country based upon one thing: FREEDOM.
~OT~ Hollywood is about making money, entertaining the masses and giving the paparazzi a job. Nothing more. If someone wants religion, they go to their temple, chapel, house of worship or their backyard ~ depending on personal preference. JMO  | |
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| Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 6/24/2008 7:33:21 PM | Hollywood is for entertainment. Not religious enlightenment. Think about that one movie there...WTF was it??? The one depicting the crucifixtion of Christ...all done in Aramic with English subtitles....can't remember the name of it...never saw it myself. The Passion of the Christ"? Maybe...anyways...think about this...there HAS to be a blooper reel out there somewhere...think you'll ever see it? LOL!
Want to watch "christianity"? Watch the sunday sermons on TV. | |
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| Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 6/24/2008 9:30:45 PM | I don't think religion is excluded, as such, but I don't think it's as entertaining as other matters. That said, there are lots of religious themes in movies. A constant theme is good conquering evil, a 'religious' theme if ever there was one. The Lord of the Rings Trilogy and The Narnia Chronicles were written with 'religious' themes, and were faithfully transcribed into celluloid (or whatever they use these days). Though not all Christmas movies are focused on Jesus, they still maintain the goodness of the message of Christmas (call it the Christmas Spirit if you like). Some would disagree, but I think the Harry Potter movies express a positive 'religious' theme. In fact, when I think of it, religion is rarely portrayed in a negative light except where that portrayal is fair and factually accurate. So I don't think 'religion' gets a bad rap by Hollywood.
I was thinking about movies that didn't have religion as it's main theme, but included religious components. On a lighter note, I loved "Talladega Nights" and the whole "Christmas Baby Jesus" prayer thing. It still cracks me up when I think of their discussion. If you've seen it you know, what I mean. if you haven't, rent the movie anyway and have a good giggle.  | |
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| Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 6/24/2008 10:29:37 PM | In some parts of Holly wood there is mention of a new religion, people meeting and manifesting ambitious spirits, which want to usher in a new religion. Robin Harfouche was shocked by that and left, and nearly died, but lives to tell.
http://robinharfouche.com/ | |
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| Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 6/25/2008 12:47:00 AM | So where is the action about regular, well-accepted, normal Christian life?
Good question. So where IS the action about regular, well-accepted, normal Christian life? Perhaps if the OP shared a little more detail about the sorts of regular, well-accepted, normal Christian-type "action" he's looking for in the movies, we'd be better able to provide cinematic examples of it.
I mean, Lord knows we don't see nearly enough characters in the movies who pray to get rich, even, rescued or laid... among other things.
And good post, RO! I totally agree...except for the Harry Potter bit. The idea of that a school for fledgling sorcerers would even acknowledge (let alone celebrate) the true meaning of Christmas seemed more than a little off to me. Much like marble cake (where even a little chocolate is too much for folks who prefer vanilla... and there's not nearly enough to begin to satisfy true chocoholics), the ill- considered melding of wizardry and Christianity (vis-à-vis Christmas) in the Harry Potter franchise leaves a bad, bad taste in my mouth. | |
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| Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 6/25/2008 4:22:30 AM | | I just have to say this to those one or two who say America is not a christian country.... "in god we trust". where is that written then if not all over the biggest symbol of america there is! Its hardly a muslim country is it? or a buddist one? or a hindu one! your president is christian and so were the majority of the past ones too! Not every member or citizen of a country has to be christian for it to be considered so. | |
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| Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 6/25/2008 8:41:39 AM |
the ill- considered melding of wizardry and Christianity (vis-à-vis Christmas) in the Harry Potter franchise leaves a bad, bad taste in my mouth.
LOL! Well, considering the concept of Christmas was just a way for the early church to incorporate the festival of Saturnalia and entice those of a different belief system, I'd say turn about is fair play. | |
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| Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 6/25/2008 8:58:58 AM |
I just have to say this to those one or two who say America is not a christian country.... "in god we trust".
"God" is a pretty vague term. Could you be more specific?
where is that written then if not all over the biggest symbol of america there is!
And I submit that symbol IS the god of much of the populace.
Its hardly a muslim country is it? or a buddist one? or a hindu one! your president is christian and so were the majority of the past ones too! Not every member or citizen of a country has to be christian for it to be considered so.
It's a melting pot with no specific religion specified by the governing authority; therefore, it is not a Christian nation. It is a FREE nation... or so we like to think as long as our lil' social circle ain't the one being persecuted by the powers that be. YOU are free to "consider" it a Christian nation. I am free to wish it was so... or most the time until I meet other supposedly Christian folk who lack the fruit of the spirit. But neither your belief nor my wish will make it so.
BTW, the Muslim god, Allah, is the same god of Abraham Christians and Jews worship. I cannot comment on the writings of the Quran with which I am not familiar, but this is what I have heard about the origins of Allah. So the whole "In God We Trust" and "not Muslim" thang tends to sound ignorant. You might want to scratch that talking point from your lecture. | |
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| Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 6/25/2008 9:54:26 AM |
just have to say this to those one or two who say America is not a christian country.... "in god we trust". where is that written then if not all over the biggest symbol of america there is! Its hardly a muslim country is it? or a buddist one? or a hindu one! your president is christian and so were the majority of the past ones too! Not every member or citizen of a country has to be christian for it to be considered so.
It doesn't matter what's written on your money, only what's written on your hearts.
(Imagine sheep and goats separation day)
"But Lord, Lord" we had 'In God We Trust' on our money!"
"What was that?"
"I'm not sure, but it sounded like he said, "DUH!!!!!!!!!!"" | |
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| Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 6/25/2008 10:06:20 AM | Devout Christianity is an essential part of the American reality ?? In what Universe? Another perfect example of how christians seem to think that America is supposed to revolve around them and what they believe. America is NOT a christian nation no matter what some think. Even if 80% of Americans were christian it STILL wouldnt be a christian nation because thats not what this country was built on. America is a ccountry that was open too all people from all parts of life. And they bring here their cultures and rituals and we become this big "Melting Pot"! Perhaps you've heard the term? But some people seem to think that because the Protestant Pilgrims were here first they get to claim this land for Jesus.
In the same universe that you and I live; or will the fact that they are Christians annul their own nationality?! Aren’t Christian Americans the same as the “you American”?
I really don’t understand the answer you provided above; but let me guess, you celebrate diversity?!
The Identity of this country is established in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. And NO WHERE in either of those two documents does it state that America is a "Christian Nation" (You can look it up) Hence the concept of "Seperation of Church and State" Now before someone says "Thats not written anywhere", it dosent have to. The Constitution couldnt work if there wasnt.
The identity of this country is constantly being established; day after day and the saddest thing, it has not a thing to do with the constitution…
However, you are right about one thing, you cannot advocate patriotism to your country and Christianity at the same time; well, at least not true Christianity anyway…
Religion (Especially christianity) is something that belongs in your heart and mind and remains a personal relationship or ideal that you carry around with you. It dosent belong in the public school systems or anywhere else in public because the "public" is the "State". And Hollywood?..... is part of the "State" Which means it will create whatever will sell. And as everyone knows..."Sex Sells" And nothing is more BORING then religion, christianity, god or jesus. Except of course to christians. Thats why we dont see it expressed as normal everyday life... because it isnt!
I disagree; it belongs wherever a Christian is; and if they happened to be of American nationality oh well, unless of course, Christians do not have the same rights you do…
Please do define normal, and given that it is your world and you are just letting us live in it, I am assuming you are the one who set the standars for normality?
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| Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 6/25/2008 10:26:58 AM |
I don't think religion is excluded, as such, but I don't think it's as entertaining as other matters. That said, there are lots of religious themes in movies. A constant theme is good conquering evil, a 'religious' theme if ever there was one. The Lord of the Rings Trilogy and The Narnia Chronicles were written with 'religious' themes, and were faithfully transcribed into celluloid (or whatever they use these days). Though not all Christmas movies are focused on Jesus, they still maintain the goodness of the message of Christmas (call it the Christmas Spirit if you like). Some would disagree, but I think the Harry Potter movies express a positive 'religious' theme. In fact, when I think of it, religion is rarely portrayed in a negative light except where that portrayal is fair and factually accurate. So I don't think 'religion' gets a bad rap by Hollywood.
Yes and boy have they succeeded; all those mentioned above are religions or of religious nature.
Harry Potter??! You have got to be kidding me!
Religion does not equal God; any God, whichever beliefs you have.
It is also religion which dictates almost everyone’s way of life, therein lies the problem…
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| Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 6/25/2008 11:36:01 AM |
Harry Potter??! You have got to be kidding me!
Nope. Though I only read a few chapters from the books, and relied on the movies for my info on the series, my children enjoyed the Harry Potter books, and I've spoke to adults and children I love and respect who also enjoyed them. But I am partial to English countryside scenes, old villages, and steam trains so it may be more of a romantic attachment than anything.
A local church held a Harry Potter themed Backyard Bible Class one summer that was a huge success and got tons of kids talking about good, evil, sin, God, Jesus, doing the right thing, etc. Anyway, I don't buy into the "Harry Potter is EVIL" scare-mongering. I think that good literature is good literature and books are an essential part of expanding a child's imagination and education. But that's me. Others who don't like Harry Potter should feel free not to read the books or see the movies. | |
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| Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 6/25/2008 4:26:16 PM |
Nope. Though I only read a few chapters from the books, and relied on the movies for my info on the series, my children enjoyed the Harry Potter books, and I've spoke to adults and children I love and respect who also enjoyed them. But I am partial to English countryside scenes, old villages, and steam trains so it may be more of a romantic attachment than anything.
A local church held a Harry Potter themed Backyard Bible Class one summer that was a huge success and got tons of kids talking about good, evil, sin, God, Jesus, doing the right thing, etc. Anyway, I don't buy into the "Harry Potter is EVIL" scare-mongering. I think that good literature is good literature and books are an essential part of expanding a child's imagination and education. But that's me. Others who don't like Harry Potter should feel free not to read the books or see the movies.
And that my friend is precisely what most churches are all about these days, promoting everything that, according to the bible, it is disgusting to God, but who cares, as long as you get a full house I guess...
I agree with literature being essential for a child's education; however, if you want to give your kids great literature, give them the bible or do you really think that God would have you choose Harry Potter instead?...
Just a thought...
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| Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 6/25/2008 4:51:14 PM | Thanks all for your input. It was good reading. Educational and revealing. Both of philosophical import and of affiliation to the polarized camps my question has brought out, though I meant to ask a really simple question.
Someone even asked for a clarification of my question.
What I meant to say is that in the movies we see people going to school; at work; at home, eating dinner with the family; travelling short and long distances; at a resort while on vacation; in shops, restaurants, post offices and banks; driving cars and riding a bike. These are the "normal" and "accepted" behaviours that are typical in the everyday operations of the overwhelming majority of people in civilized, industrial countries, which the United States is one of. No matter whether you're Christian in Germany or an atheist in Japan, a Christian in France or an atheist in Argentina, chances are you are doing a few of these activities almost every day in your country.
Consequently and very rightly so, these activities get their fair share of coverage in movies by Hollywood.
But:
In today's movies there are no scenes of prayer as a part of daily life, nor church attendance. People don't have the priest or the minister over for tea and they don't go to him with the agenda of finding a satisfactory answer to their moral dilemmas. I sort of expect that to be seen in American movies, but I haven't in any movie that was made in the last 20-30 years. I thought it was normal in European movies, as people and cultures there are very secular; few countries remain there that are overwhelmingly Christian, if you use the definition "most people, at least 60-80 percent of the population in these countries, are honest and heartfelt practitioners of Christianity". Poland and Italy may be examples of Christian countries in Europe.
In the USA the definition applies; I did not mean to entice an argument of what constitutes a Christian country, but the 80% practicing and believing Christians within the entire population well stands. (I heard the true figure moves around 90%.)
But this was not the point. And I wasn't looking for why they don't make more movies such as "The Ten Commandments" or "Ben Hur". I was looking for why there is a complete absence of religious behaviour depicted. Kids are not asked to say their evening prayers, but in "Leave it to Beaver" they were; nobody worries about the Lord's day and how they'll get to church and do things there, but if I remember well, in "Gillighan's Island" , at least in some episodes, Sunday worship was an issue. (Please don't ask me which episode. I saw them last in the 1970s.) Even in a cute and very loveable commercial, a cute and very loveable woman up for bat in a friendly baseball game at a company picnic said quietly, just to herself (I remember this exactly, word-for-word; she was cute): "Please, please, please, let me have a hit!" In almost all Westerns there were minister-types. (Again, please don't hold me to produce an actual statistical report on this.) In today's swashbucklers there is no trace of fearing the afterlife or praying for survival, or burying the dead with respect. In war movies made in the fifties there were. (Statistics? Anyone?)
So this is what I meant by the dearth of religiosity depicted in Hollywood movies. Religious activities are a part of everyone's lives in at least 80% of Americans. It's hard to produce a conflict around religion, other than popularized crimes and existentialist struggle. This latter nobody would watch on Thursday evening with a beer, as many pointed out in this thread. But there is absolutely no trace of religion in people's everyday lives in American movies and TV. The families don't go to church, there are no minister types, there are no prayers, no nothing about religion or God.
Even in British crime shows and whoddunnits there is a healthy dose of religious behaviour -- not in-your-face or overpowering, but just enough to balance the movie and make it a believable representation of a slice of life. Even Mr. Bean had an episode of falling asleep and intermittently waking up during a sermon.
So if you haven't got too tired of discussing this topic -- anyone not bored to death to answer this question? | |
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| Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 6/25/2008 6:46:26 PM |
posted by: angelseeker
I just have to say this to those one or two who say America is not a christian country.... "in god we trust". where is that written then if not all over the biggest symbol of america?
Man, the arrogance you christians have....Exactly whose god are you referring to? I said america is not a christian country..I didnt say it was a god free country! Are you forgetting the jews? Dont they live here too? "In god we trust" can refer to any god you feel like plugging in there. Half of the founding fathers of this country were Masons. They believed in a god too, just not the christian god. They believed in a power greater then themselves but didnt regard jesus as anyone special, and regarded the bible as "an important religious book in a world full of important religious books" Why do you think they argued for weeks before deciding on a final version of the contitution? Because the founding fathers who were christians wanted the church to have c0ntrol. I believe Thomas Jefferson won out.
So the god thats printed on your money is whatever god you want it to be. But if I were you, I wouldnt go up to a muslim and tell him that allah is the god of Abraham | |
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