| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 5:52:13 PM | | Can there be be religion without law? That is a question that many people today are uncomfortable with. Many are happy or content with the seperation of church and state. What does this mean in the grand sceme of things? Every president of this country has been a Christian but Christianity has little to do with the dealings of this country. As a Muslim I believe in religion running the affairs of the country in all countries, especially the so-called Muslim countries. If Christianity was the official religion of the state and I'm not talking about what is made up, I'm talking about what Jesus came to teach. I'm talking about the prophets that he followed because he didn't teach something new. Were are the ten commandments, would they not make our life easier and safer? Either God new what he was doing when he gave those laws to Moses or man knows best, take your pick. People will accept any lie because it is what they want to do. If you say that you follow and obey the prophets like Jesus, Moses, and Mohammed then the next question is and please think before answering for yourselves, would any of these religous men allow strip clubs? Would they allow regular clubs were people drink and dance? Would they approve of these man made wars which are only for money and power? Would they marry two men or two women and say in the name of God? The only way you can answer this with an affirmative is two ways either you really do not know or you are lying. If you read the scripture you can clearly see the truth, if you want to. I'm also talking about Muslim countries too were in some places a young woman gets raped by five men and they ignorant arrest her. Religion is law period. The holy books are to tell us how to live pure and simple. If you have know law you have know religion even though you have followers in all these religions. I hope people will thing and not get angry or defensive. Search for real answers for your own good .A whole society was destroyed for homosexuality not something I made up, it is in your book. Don't try to water down the teachings by being poitically correct feeling you might hurt someones feelings there feelings would be hurt more if they don't obey God's laws. | |
|
| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 6:26:28 PM | Being gay and knowing that experience. Knowing that I am not a harmful person. Knowing that I am helpful to people who rely on me for their survival. Knowing the help and love I give to my enemies. I know that I am not evil. So I know that your scriptures are wrong. To send me to Hell for the mere reason that I like the same sex would be an evil beyond one you could even imagine, because you don't know what it is to be gay, and you don't know what it is to be me. You think you have all the answers regarding me and what should or will happen to me after I die because you read it in a book you imagine to be the word of God. But that view is without reason or positive feeling or good will or good sentiment. You can call hate and ignorance and ill will Holy but so can I, but it is what it is. I can also call you evil and against God. I can get a gun and blow your head off and say that it is good thing. But those who love you and need you in their lives would call it something else.
Unless I'm f'cking with you, stealing from you, hurting you or your family, don't worry about it. | |
|
| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 7:59:19 PM | ^^^^ I am with bob...
I am an original...
I am a nice guy...
I am not religeous...
I believe in being me...
I believe in treating the next person I meet with equality and fairness regardless of their beliefs or personal preferences...
I am a nice guy...
I do what I believe to be morale and just in every significant and unsignificant event in my life...
I do not need religion to make me a good man...
I am a good man... | |
|
| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 9:13:30 PM | | You are affended because of your choices I mentioned many things, so since you opened your mouth I was talking about religion which most people have. I must ask you do you have a religion? And once again would any of the prophets approve of your actions. Ask your parents and grandparents, if you don't believe in scripture that is your hang up, that is between you and your lord. Answer the question, do you believe in God ? If so what is your religion? And what is your holy book? | |
|
| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 9:15:08 PM | | I'm talking to people about morals if you don't believe in God then why does this bother you? | |
|
| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 9:30:21 PM | Did not bother me at all what you said...
You posted your views in a public forum where people will share what they feel and think about a particular subject...
Does it bother you that we do not share your views? | |
|
| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 9:41:11 PM | | ps.... At it's base morality has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with being kind and respectfull to the other human beings on this planet. | |
|
| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 9:42:45 PM | Dear Oldschoolamir,
I'll take the risk and be candid with as best of a response as I can muster to what I believe is a sincere OP that you made. Myself, I am a Christian. Do I do this perfectly?....FAR from it!, but I try as best as I can to meet the intents/instructions/standards. Do I wish more other people would try too??? You BETCHA! Do I think our world would be a better place if more did? Again, you bet! But, do I control that? No. Do I think that I, or me and my other Christian friends should? ....No. Do I/we get disappointed in the things we see every day? Yes.
But control by law (to a 'religious level)? .............Um, no. That's not a solution either. Here's why:
"Law and Legal System" needs to govern safety and fairness for the community's citizens. Generally speaking, I think most of our current system mostly does that within reasonable expectation levels. But, if on the other hand we 'raised' the levels of our laws to the standards of most religions, I think we'd run into a few problems:
A. Which religous standards? Even within "Christian Domain" there are different interpretations and understandings of what is and isn't sin or good. And if we go out to different formal religions the differences between interpretations can get even bigger.
B. At what point would the law leave off? As most religions say that sin or bad actually starts in the mind, long before a visible action takes place, would the law then need to legislate and enforce itself on people's thoughts? That's not good. George Orwell, "1984".
....and then though what I personally think is actually the most important reason:
C. It would take away the religion. I'm not just talking about "religious freedom" as guaranteed by out Constitution, because by making laws based on a certain religion you'd be taking away that freedom, .....................but I'm also talking about it from the religious side of the table too. Something very important about religion is the process of personally choosing and accepting it yourself; the process of becoming a believer and follower of it. If instead the religion becomes 'law', then the opportunity to accept with one's own free will has been taken away..............and THAT would be a tragedy. Eventually, personal relationships with the foundations of religion would be no more, and then at that point, God himself might as well then call it a day. He seeks our love freely given from us individually, and not because we are forced to follow or love Him or do or don't do certain things by others. ------Or, in other words -----
-----------For religion to work, there has to be freedom to make some amount of mistakes too (still within the legal allowable code of course).
I hope this might bring some good thoughts OT.
Sincerely,
o4 | |
|
| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 10:01:30 PM | | not at all, it is funny that the other people did not respond. The people who are strippers or who go to the strip clubs don't try to justify their wrong they just don't respond but the ones who try to justify what they do are funny to me, it is just an opinion know hard feelings. | |
|
| |
| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 10:07:38 PM | ^^^^no worries
I have been to many a stip club even a whore house on my 18 th birthday in nevada...
Guess you can just chalk me up as a universal human being who has done just about everything I was put on this planet with an interest to try... | |
|
| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 10:13:15 PM |
not true morality comes only from religion.
I don't understand this can you define what morality means to you... | |
|
| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 10:15:19 PM | This is pretty much how I see Morality
Morality (from the Latin moralitas "manner, character, proper behavior") | |
|
| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 10:19:51 PM | | Thank you for an intelligent response, now do you believe that God gives you freedom to do what you want. I whole point is with true religion being implimented you have chasos. It was the seperation of church and state that allowed slavery and the genocide of the indigenous people of this land. Mexican people slave everyday picking fruits and vegtables so the people of this nation will have food and who are the people who speak up for there rights of equality? Very few. With all the believing people in this nation why is that ? People of religion have an obligation to speak but instead they hide behind the state, is this belief? Will they on the day of judgement be able to use this as an exuse, there was a seperation of church and state. Right is right and I agree with you that there are so many Christian sects but there are many thing in which they agree. Read again what I wrote and focus on all the problems that exist and imagine if true Christianity was in place. Scholars of the religion true scholars are needed to explain true religion just like in Islam of true scholars are in jail or dead and there lies the problem. You can not have true religion without law. Thanks once again. | |
|
| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 10:27:18 PM | | What I'm talkng about is, is it ok with your religion? If ok Ihave know other commit. | |
|
| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 10:29:29 PM | All religions are composed of individuals and each individual has the potential to do harm to another when they do not have morality. Every religion on the planet has had their evil doers. A religion chosen to be in bed with the goverment as I think you want would only alienate 3/4 of the rest of a very diverse nation causing a divide and more problems.
My opinions...
Man I talk a lot... | |
|
| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 10:31:36 PM | | I believe there is universal morality bu if you don't believe in God once again this does not apply to you. | |
|
| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 10:32:50 PM |
morality comes only from religion.
But not all religion produces morality by simple application of law either.
Take for instance the Pharisees and Sadducees of Jesus's time. These religious leaders were following the law of what to do, when to do, how to do, etc.......but Jesus was quickly able to point out that what they were doing was identifiable as just only that: wrotely doing the 'requirements' of the 'law', but in fact, they were NOT doing what God wanted which would have been rather acting with love and faith from their hearts and souls. Now, while this is not an exact mirror image of "morality comes only from religion", it does point out however that not all that comes from 'religion' is morality either....and one step further, it is a strong example of an instance where being caused to act in a way because of "law" (even law inspired by religion and morality) was in fact, not rendering the performances of what would have been correct under the Principal. | |
|
| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 10:37:01 PM | I am a man, not a child desperately needing approval from sources outside of myself. I am no more looking for approval from prophets any more than they are looking for approval from me. They are not better than me. Not believing in scripture is not my hang up but yours since it is you that wish to convert religious beliefs into law. We've seen what has happened when Government rules via Religion. It is bloodthirsty madness.
Yes I believe in God. Religion is a pathway for some. It is a personal choice and not to be forced on another. My Holy Book is within me, and not defined by others. Others can inspire and show me A way. But they cannot define THE way. God is not written on paper by hands long since dead.
When I stand before my Lord I will feel shame for all the times I could have responded with love and kindness and didn't. I will feel happiness for all the times I responded with love and kindness when it would have made sense not to.
As for the after-life and Heaven, I cannot say for sure. But don't be too surprised when strippers and hookers and drunks and gays walk in before you. | |
|
| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 10:37:09 PM | | Some people have different values and opinions of what is good, many slaves owners felt that they were giving the poor slaves a better way of live. | |
|
| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 10:50:05 PM | | If that is what you believe what religion do you believe in? I never mention me going to heaven and you won't affend me with any ignorant statements. I'm talking to people who believe in God. There is know reasons to believe in God if you don't belive that he placed us on this earth without laws, what happen if we don't obey those laws is a religous question. You appear to be your own God. God sent us prophets to teach us the law I'm sorry if you do not understand this point. If you don't have a need for there instruction then you do not believe that they were sent by God.So once again what do you believe? | |
|
| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 10:52:25 PM | RE Freedom: I think that God gives us the freedom to choose whether to accept and follow him or not. If one accepts and follows him, then he directs what to do in many instances (but not all) about things; and so in that sense, one surrenders some freedom of actions to him in trade for his presence in one's life. [and btw, from my experience, I'd say it's a pretty good deal too!]
RE Slavery: Although I am deeply opposed to slavery, in fact, the bible does not outlaw it, and in some instances even goes so far as to dictate how to act if you are a slave or if you are an owner. In short, if you are an owner, then you are also responsible for caring for your slaves and leading them as God would want them to be treated, and if you are a slave, you are to be loyal, hardworking and obiedient to your benevolent master. Of course today we reject the concept of slavery all together.....is this an example of morality that was not born of religion? I'd have to ponder.....
RE Mexicans working orchards in U.S.: At this moment, ie not having thought about it much more than just off the top of my head at this time, I'm not certain that this is a religious issue. It certainly is a legal issue. And a moral issue. And even an economic issue. .......and the mix of all of these aspects of issues may lead to a terrible conclusion for us all if our laws don't untangle this problem. - We may in fact some day find the issue escalating to even much higher ethical and moral encounters and situations than we are even experiencing today .......................which in turn might even beget religious response???? .........Need to think about this one more........ | |
|
| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 10:58:21 PM | You are all in error....and confusing RELIGION with what God has set forth...whether you believe in God or not! Religion is man made...period!!! There is no Mohamad, there is no Buddah, there are no Hindu gods and the list goes on! Look at historical facts here...there really was Jesus...he really lived and died and rose again...it is based and proven in history and only those who are afraid of Him deny it and make up dumb stories! I am Christian, I live a Christian life as best a human can...but I am not religious! I follow what Jesus says for us to be and do...which is "love they neighbor" as He loved us. God on the other hand, is more complicated however He is the final judge as He made all things. There is a book...it is called The Bible...one can find all the answers to the past, present and future in it...there is no argument...God made us, he will do what He wants with us and those who refuse to follow His Son, Jesus Christ...you can read that too! If you do not believe it...then why so much anger from those of you who say it isn't so? Because it is evil against the spiritual...Anger is evil...it destroys...look around you...it is everywhere! How can one say he is good, kind, loyal and all of this stuff I see here if you are cursing and hating someone for the mere mention of God? Do not be decieved...being gay is evil and perverse, it is unnatural and sick! Sex outside of marriage is just as evil and sick, Adultry is evil and sick...it destroys...look at the diseases it spreads and how does it spread? Certainly not thru monogomy! Sexual sin destroys lives and families....does any one see this at all?Despite our lusts, we cannot hate the person that sins...but we must hate the sin as God has commanded! We as Christians must tell others and if they do not believe...then it is in God's hands...God is the final judge! Those that do not believe will see God on judgement day and will have to answer for their actions...those that have been faithful will reap the rewards we have been promised...those that have not been faithful will reap eternity in suffering like no other...eternity does not end...and there is no going back! Read Romans, Hebrews and for Gay people add Jude...! For wisdom read Proverbs...! As far as Political Correctness...that is man made too...I prefer to be God Correct...!
 | |
|
| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 10:59:07 PM | My law is simple don't do anything to someone else that I wouldn't want done to me...
In most cases most don't like what I like... But you get my drift... And that is true morality... And if their is a God and I have to stand before him or her I am going to look up at him or her and say I lived the best life I could. I was as kind and respectfull to others as I hoped they would be to me.I was true to my interest and experienced everything I could.
Can I come in?
Do you have steak and beer?
I talk a lot can I get gag!  | |
|
| Religion without law?
Posted: 6/24/2008 11:06:15 PM | | View the order, God sent prophets so they are much higher in degree over these people who you mentioned. Just because a person says they are whatever or wholy that action proved that they were not. Just like the founders of this country who claimed they were for freedom yet they killed and enslaved people to get where they were. They came hear fleeing religous persecution and the first thing they did was to kill innocent people. Don't take my word for it read the books. Christian crusaders? I think not they used the word Christian but were far from the teachings of Jesus. Would Jesus ok his followers to go to war in Iraq especially since there is a separation between church and state? Who are the majority of people in the history of this country that have gone to war? Christians !they do not challenege their beliefs and ask is this consistant with their beliefs because if they did know one would go. The separation of church and state serves that purpose. You must put the interest of your government over your religion which means that you have chosen the state over your God. The state becomes your object of worship then in case you did not know. Remember the ten commandments when God said he is a jealous God.What does that mean? You have to dig deep to find this meaning if and only if you care and believe. | |
|
Home
login 
