| George takes N. Korea off terrorist list?
Posted: 6/26/2008 7:49:14 AM | ...so its not about oil eh?
we are ramping up in the Persian gulf, shaking sabers, and making threats to Iran who has never had a nuke nor the means of delivering them, has not HALF as bad a record in regards to human rights as NK yet NK gets a pass because of papers they gave to China?
I'm issuing a proclamation that lifts the provisions of the Trading with the Enemy Act with respect to North Korea. And secondly, I am notifying Congress of my intent to rescind North Korea's designation as a state sponsor of terror in 45 days.
give me a break..... | |
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| George takes N. Korea off terrorist list?
Posted: 6/26/2008 8:25:04 AM | OP, how could it possibly be about oil? Does North Korea have any oil? NO! What does North Korea have that most of the West wants it to not have? A nuclear profileration program!
May I suggest that you read Secretary of State Rice's column in today's Wall Street Journal about the six-way negotiations that have led to this action by President Bush before you have a nervous breakdown. | |
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| George takes N. Korea off terrorist list?
Posted: 6/26/2008 9:26:03 AM | Let me first say that what I am about to discuss in no way reflects my own personal opinions about the topic I am only answering the question.
OP, how could it possibly be about oil? Does North Korea have any oil? NO!
Exactly NK has no oil. So despite the fact the NK has nuclear capability, and has missiles capable of endangering its neighbors, and mistreats its people. We have not threatened it as we have say Iraq or Iran. That is the ops point I believe. | |
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| George takes N. Korea off terrorist list?
Posted: 6/26/2008 9:28:21 AM | Gee, we pulled an Obama and talked to an enemy....wow. So, NK may be getting rid of nukes, and we keep selling 'em to India.
The thing with NK is, we didn't end the war there. They want an official end, to start up trade with the largest consumer market in the world until recently. They're eating grass outside the cities. They have always acted out, in order to get our attention.
Cuba shoulda started a nuke program :) We could be buying their sugar by now to make into fuel...
hmm, what are the odds NK will stop making counterfeit American currency? then again, considering the value of our currency.... | |
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NERO1
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 6 | |
| George takes N. Korea off terrorist list?
Posted: 6/26/2008 9:32:33 AM | Sanctions are being lifted on North Korea, yes. And they are being taken off the "terrorist-sponsor" nations list. The same as happened with Libya a few yrs ago when a settlement was finally reached with regards to the bombing (by Libyan secret service operatives) of the Pan Am 103 which was done in retaliation for Reagan bombing Tripoli.
It means , among other things, Americans can or will soon be able to "legally" travel there (if so inclined), do business with companies there, etc. This happens. It's part of the "carrot and stick" approach basically. Furthermore the people over there (No.Korea) are starving --- the non-elite, that is, the peasant workers and such outside of Pyongyang. This is a very good development. | |
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| George takes N. Korea off terrorist list?
Posted: 6/26/2008 1:00:03 PM | Maybe... N Korea has managed to act in a manner that was not as offensive... and thus EARN being taken off the terrorist list and having trade opened up.
Stranger things have happened.
I remember something about a wall around Berlin that the Soviets said would stand forever.
Maybe peace has broken out between the US and North Korea...
We've managed to keep a cease-fire with them for 50+ years (with far fewer incidents than we had with Iraq in any one year when we had a cease fire with them...)
I'd prefer to try to look at this as a GOOD thing. | |
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| George takes N. Korea off terrorist list?
Posted: 6/26/2008 1:22:38 PM | fire knight hit upon my point, which was badly made, too much of a hurry and too dumbfounded how we are rewarding a country with a horrid human rights record that shows no sign of improvement, through China, which is about as brutal as they come (just look at recent actions in Tibet), while NK can deliver nukes enough to mess with the E. Asian world and at the same time are getting ready for war with a country with no nukes, never shot a missal at anybody, doesn't have near the record of human rights abuses.....
sure its all about money and trade, just like its about oil when it comes to Iran. its a double standard. | |
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| George takes N. Korea off terrorist list?
Posted: 6/26/2008 1:56:18 PM | Oh I don't know about that Crash. It seems to me that if Iran would agree to stop enriching Uranium the EU would lift their sanctions. And if Iran would stop funding Hesbollah and Hamas we'd probably take them off the state sponsors of terror list. Maybe North Korea has finally done the right thing. Kim Jung can't starve his people forever, he'll run out of people.
There was a great article on NPR about people who were emigrating from the north to the south of Korea via China. Compared to North Korea, Iran is a bastion of sanity | |
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| George takes N. Korea off terrorist list?
Posted: 6/26/2008 1:59:42 PM |
Compared to North Korea, Iran is a bastion of sanity
...thats my point... we're getting ready to go to war with Iran and giving NK a pass because their buddies the Chinese told them to heel? | |
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| George takes N. Korea off terrorist list?
Posted: 6/26/2008 2:31:37 PM | Yep China calls the shots. Without China NK starves in very short order. NK does exactly what China wants them to. Right now China wants them play nice.
Iranian fundamentalist president wants to start Armageddon, kind of like Tim McVeigh only with bigger bombs.
I went to a conference where the AF commander of missile systems talked about the threats posed by NK and Iran, who are sharing technology.They will shortly have missiles capable of reaching orbit, ICBMs. Reportedly Iran got the plans for the NK nuclear weapons and all they need is some weapons grade uranium to be a real pain in the a$$. | |
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| George takes N. Korea off terrorist list?
Posted: 6/26/2008 4:12:33 PM |
Iranian fundamentalist president wants to start Armageddon, kind of like Tim McVeigh only with bigger bombs.
Did you ever stop to consider that maybe Iran feels threatened and that could be why they are arming themselves?
I dunno, maybe their neighbour Iraq getting invaded for oil had something to do with it?
Or maybe the cosntant saber rattling by GWB might be a reason?
Seems to me that if there is a bully threatening you, you have two choices;
-eat the crap, bend over and take it
-or be ready to defend yourself | |
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| George takes N. Korea off terrorist list?
Posted: 6/26/2008 4:15:24 PM | And let's not forget that Israel, the ONLY nation in the middle east that DOES have nuclear weapons has already launched 1 "pre-emptive" war back in 1967. Maybe if Israel signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, let IAEA inspectors in, and obeyed the dozens of UN resolutions they are openly in violation of the rest of the M.E. wouldn't be so hot to get their own nukes.
just sayin. | |
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| George takes N. Korea off terrorist list?
Posted: 6/26/2008 5:24:12 PM | has anyone stopped to think of all of the low paid labor that North Korea will provide to the world once sanctions are lifted?
Santa will get a lot more elves | |
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| George takes N. Korea off terrorist list?
Posted: 6/26/2008 6:07:24 PM |
And let's not forget that Israel, the ONLY nation in the middle east that DOES have nuclear weapons has already launched 1 "pre-emptive" war back in 1967. Maybe if Israel signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, let IAEA inspectors in, and obeyed the dozens of UN resolutions they are openly in violation of the rest of the M.E. wouldn't be so hot to get their own nukes.
Yep.  | |
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| George takes N. Korea off terrorist list?
Posted: 6/26/2008 6:48:41 PM | I have no affection for George Bush, but if can take North Korea off the list of impending nuclear states, then it will be MAJOR foreign policy success.
Regardless of your political stance we should all hope he is successful.
PhillyFellow | |
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| George takes N. Korea off terrorist list?
Posted: 6/26/2008 6:53:01 PM | excellent point andy....
armenijhad doesn't really control all that much... i mean, he's no Kim Jung.....
good point too barrie - we have Iran covered on two sides. fact is Iran has never been as dangerous as NK but they have OIL and loads of it....
China is calling not only the shots for NK but they have us by the nards as well..... perhaps that explains it more than anything else? | |
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NERO1
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 20 | |
| In re: Iran's oil........
Posted: 6/26/2008 8:32:39 PM | Regarding Iranian oil, there's not as much of it anymore as there once was, certainly nowhere near as much as the Gulf countries and Iraq (which has the largest remaining proven reserves, so far --- although American bungling during the invasion ....... disbanding the Iraqi army, going in there without enough troops, etc, led to rioting, anarchy and destruction which led to the crippling of much of Iraq's potential pumping capacities and so forth....it will take years to recover from that).
Going back to Iran however, largely due to the fact that their oil first started being pumped way back in the very early 20th century (via the arrangement they signed onto with Britain, through Churchill, the Anglo-Iranian oil company ....now BP), they are about 25 to 30 yrs ahead of Saudi Arabia for example as far as finally starting to exhaust their supply of the crucial natural resource. They're pumping far lower right now, already, than they even are contracted for with OPEC. In a few more yrs, it's likely they will run really low, and that's when there could well be more headway made as far as seeing internal democratic revolution of some sort , against the ayatollahs.
There is certainly a burgeoning democratic underground there, and amongst the Persian diaspora (although many of them would likely rally to Ahmadinejad if their nation were actually invaded and occupied.......yet another good reason not to).
In any case, Khatami (Ahmadinejad's predecessor as president) came to the US , hat in hand, looking to open up diplomatic relations with America for the first time in nearly 30 yrs. The Iranian gov't rarely has humbled itself thus, and the Islamic Revolutionary gov't never has ......least of all towards the US. It was virtually unprecedented. AIPAC lobbyists and other hawkish elements in Washington,DC, saw to it that he got promptly rebuffed (and ironically Israel now is looking at having to deal with Iran's reactors themselves...).
Unable to deliver change, Khatami was replaced by voters with the hardliners we see there today. It's a shame it went that way. In any event, there IS the very real possibility they may indeed be telling the truth (or mostly) about needing nuclear power for future civil and domestic purposes, seeing as though they clearly realize by now their days of coasting by on oil revenues are already essentially behind them.
Iranian domestic oil crisis :
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/25/AR2006122500486.html | |
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| George takes N. Korea off terrorist list?
Posted: 6/26/2008 8:35:11 PM | | Of course he would them and the chinese own america now. Do any of you realize how much money the US owes the orient for this fucked up war ? | |
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| George takes N. Korea off terrorist list?
Posted: 6/27/2008 1:52:00 AM | Looks to me like the 'end of the world' believers are going to have a job explaining this one away.
There appears to me to be a momentum gathering towards world peace.
The war in Iraq and Afganistan will be over soon, Israel and Hamas, Israel and Syria can you ever believe that would happen?, The UN about to deal with Mugabe once and for all, the war on terror will soon end too as the peace dividend denied to us after cold war will not be allowed to be taken from us again.
With China and it's new position as a good and stable regime with no military asperations having taken great strides towrds being open and free. Even they cannot stop the march to freedom the internet brings to us all. We are now more one wold than ever in our history. Borders which have stood for millenia are now removed and nations who have fought many wars are now friends and only do battle on the sports field or in the Eurovision song contest.
I think we are all living in a momentous time in world history and the world we all live in will be unrecognisable by 2012. (That year is starting to look to me like one that will be written about in history books.)
Welcome North Korea, welcome to a better and more peaceful world. And thank you. | |
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| George takes N. Korea off terrorist list?
Posted: 6/27/2008 1:54:46 AM | Not one for the pessimists eh!
There appears to me to be a momentum gathering towards world peace.
The war in Iraq and Afganistan will be over soon, Israel and Hamas, Israel and Syria could you ever believe that would happen?, The UN about to deal with Mugabe once and for all, The war on terror will soon end too as the peace dividend denied to us after cold war will not be allowed to be taken from us again.
With China and it's new position as a good and stable regime with no military asperations having also taken great strides towards being open and free. Even they cannot stop the march to freedom the internet brings to us all. We are now more one world than ever in our history. Borders which have stood for millenia are now removed and nations who have fought many wars are now friends and only do battle on the sports field or in the Eurovision song contest.
I think we are all living in a momentous time in world history and the world we all live in will be unrecognisable by 2012. (That year is starting to look to me like one that will be written about in history books.)
Welcome North Korea, welcome to a better and more peaceful world. And thank you. | |
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| George takes N. Korea off terrorist list?
Posted: 6/27/2008 1:58:14 AM | We don't have an ethical foreign policy.....We don't have an ethical foreign policy....We don't have an ethical foreign policy....We don't have an ethical foreign policy....
This is the point, isn't it?
The war in Iraq and Afganistan will be over soon, Israel and Hamas, Israel and Syria can you ever believe that would happen?, The UN about to deal with Mugabe once and for all, the war on terror will soon end too as the peace dividend denied to us after cold war will not be allowed to be taken from us again.
omg. And Santa Claus is going to bring me.....what?
Seriously, beachbum, if you are right about all this, then I'm thrilled.
.....
But...in the meantime...I don't know what your evidence is for your assertion that the difficulties in the various countries you mention are coming to an end.....but even if we did have reason to adopt a halcyon view of the immediate futures of the Israeli/Palestinan conflict, the Isreali/Lebanon conflict, the Isreali/Syria conflict, our occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq....etc....and even the UN's "once and for all" (huh???? wtf you talkin' about) dealing with Mugabe......
I'd hold off on all of it until we got safely out of this admin and avoided McCain's, and thus could be assured of no WWIII-starting invasion of Iran.
But if you have some kind of inside info on all these things....I'd love to hear it.
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| George takes N. Korea off terrorist list?
Posted: 6/27/2008 2:41:20 AM |
They want an official end, to start up trade with the largest consumer market in the world until recently.
I'm not sure but I don't really think NK wants that at all. I don't believe you can have free open trade with any country without sharing your culture and I don't think for a minute NK wants anything whatsoever to do with western or European culture. That would be an incredible threat to little Kim. When people start getting a good whiff of freedom and democracy, crazy thoughts like that in the masses would be a direct threat to this little dictator.
But McSame should be sent the memo - sometimes talking to your enemy is a good thing. It's called diplomacy and shame on him for criticizing Obama's desire to do just that. Shame on him. | |
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