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| BIG BUSINESS OR BIG GOVERNMENT
Posted: 6/26/2008 9:36:23 AM | Big Business or Big Government for the last 8 to 12 years we have seen what happens when Big Business is allowed to run our country, should we have expected a different outcome? If your ecstatic or excited with the future then you are probably happy and you are probably in the 10% of the population that’s controlling 90% of the wealth . If your not overly excited with the future and may even be concerned then you are probably in the 90% that’s watching as the 10% continues their onslaught on you and your children’s future .
Some one started a rumor and it grew and grew until WE could not see the forest for the trees, the rumor was that big government was bad and that WE should do every thing WE can to discourage them from becoming involved in our daily lives, “Them” who are they? Them seem to be the public servants “WE” elected to represent the best interest of our country, so on election day “WE” go to the poles cast OUR vote and walk away proud that WE have participated in the process of voting and then “WE” moan and groan for the next 4/6/8 years as the elected servants the ones that WE elected, do what big business wants them to do and naturally it’s not OUR fault, what can WE do what did WE expect to happen when the choices WE had really boiled down to picking the lesser of two evils.
OUR country is in the proverbial creek and the paddle is about to fall into the bubbling brine, WE need to awaken the sleeping giant and realize that WE THE PEOPLE are the government of OUR country WE ARE THE BIG GOVERNMENT WE ARE SO SCARED OF it’s like getting up in the morning and looking into the mirror and denying that the person looking back at US is US WE The PEOPLE are the GOVERNMENT the responsibility for preserving and protecting OUR freedoms, OUR economy, OUR safety, the future of OUR nation lies squarely on OUR shoulders.
WE need to take the ball and start shooting baskets or kicking goals or running it, WE need to grab that paddle and keep paddling until WE reach the shore of OUR future. WE need to understand that if WE are helpless it’s because WE want to be. 90% of the people definitely CAN have a positive impact on the future, WE have the smartest minds and the best most skilled workers in the world, WE need to be in the forefront of new technology, WE need to be setting the pace and WE need to be looking into the future. OUR fears and indecisiveness needs to replaced with imagination and determination. WE need to destroy the labels that divide US and reach out to help one another walk through the doors of the future.
WE are the government, WE are in charge, WE are not helpless
Since BIG BUSINESS is not really all that interested in NEW TECHNOLOGY, WE need to invest OUR tax dollars in the future of OUR country, the future is in WE the people, the future is in NEW TECHNOLGY, WE have the minds and the skills needed to make that investment open the doors to the future, a future that WE can be proud of and that WE can be excited about , A future that WE can pass on to the next generation | |
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| BIG BUSINESS OR BIG GOVERNMENT
Posted: 6/26/2008 9:41:35 AM | I think at some point you have been blinded by all of this.
Why do I say that?
Because the media has convinced you that there is really a difference between the two parties we have. When in reality they the same thing.
Both sides are expanding goverment.
Bush has expanded government more than the last 3 presidents combined!
We the people are not big government.
If we allow government to keep on the same path it is going. We will lose all of out rights. | |
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| BIG BUSINESS OR BIG GOVERNMENT
Posted: 6/26/2008 11:18:22 AM |
Both sides are expanding goverment.
Bush has expanded government more than the last 3 presidents combined!
We the people are not big government.
If we allow government to keep on the same path it is going. We will lose all of out rights.
Agreed .
The problem is not BIG BUSINESS .
Business' are very good , they create goods and services , like food , shelter , clothing , tansportation , healthcare etc. etc. Big bussiness is productive and provides people with a good standard of living .
The problem is when big business' form cartels and gain control of the govenment . Then you get corruption and wars and all sorts of chicanery .
So , the problem is BIG GOVERNMENT .
Very limited government and a free market economy and general freedom is the answer. | |
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| BIG BUSINESS OR BIG GOVERNMENT
Posted: 6/26/2008 11:22:28 AM |
I think at some point you have been blinded by all of this.
Why do I say that?
Because the media has convinced you that there is really a difference between the two parties we have. When in reality they the same thing.
Both sides are expanding goverment.
Bush has expanded government more than the last 3 presidents combined!
We the people are not big government.
If we allow government to keep on the same path it is going. We will lose all of out rights.
So I have been blinded? I think the two parties are the same and therefore our choices are? WE the people are the government the problem is WE have forgotten that we are , we have been brainwashed to believe that WE are not the government and that WE can have no say on what happens in OUR government.
I am in total agreement with you WE have to get involved and force change and WE can do it. WE are not helpless WE are the government WE are in charge
Isn't there a "politics" thread you can rant on?
This isn't really news or current is it?
Let’s see what is your definition of news or current? Maybe we have different thoughts on the subject and while you mull that over tell me what your thoughts are on freedom of speech,
Actually I think it might fall under news because it really appears that WE have forgotten what OUR role in government is or maybe WE have decided to hide under a rock until it is all over, At any rate my opinion which counts to at least one person is as valid as anyone else’s and I will as you so politely point out continue to express it (rant and rave) as long as I can
Which brings me to another subject it seems that some people think that the word politics should only be spoken behind closed doors that differences in opinion should not be discussed in public forums, I tend to disagree and think maybe WE should be doing a lot more communicating with one another and I will probably continue this line of thought.
Would you like to make a list of what I can and can not talk about and maybe when and where my ranting might be more acceptable, your input would be greatly appreciated | |
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| BIG BUSINESS OR BIG GOVERNMENT
Posted: 6/26/2008 11:30:07 AM | Hmmm...sarcasm.
Well, since this thread is for actual news and actual current events my freedom of speech entitles me to express the opinion that your rant does not belong here. And since there is a generic "politics" thread available for rantings you may want to consider posting there before this one gets deleted.
Your opinion, as in this case, is not "news" nor should it be considered a current event any more than someone who just got dumped by there boyfriend is considered news or a current event. There are specific areas for those posts. They are there to be used.
And I believe a "current event" as described in the forum rules is one that occured in the last two weeks.
Forum Rules
3. Any new thread in this forum, must be on a topic that occured within the last 2 weeks.
Just trying to help.
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| BIG BUSINESS OR BIG GOVERNMENT
Posted: 6/26/2008 11:38:04 AM |
So I have been blinded? I think the two parties are the same and therefore our choices are? WE the people are the government the problem is WE have forgotten that we are , we have been brainwashed to believe that WE are not the government and that WE can have no say on what happens in OUR government.
I am in total agreement with you WE have to get involved and force change and WE can do it. WE are not helpless WE are the government WE are in charge
We do not need to make the government bigger than it already is.
It is already being used to spy on people. Taking away out constitutional rights.
Chipping away at the 1st and 2nd and 4th amendments.
That is coming from big government.
If it keeps expanding we are gonna lose our rights altogether.
It's like we are in 1984.
Less the government. The better. | |
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| BIG BUSINESS OR BIG GOVERNMENT
Posted: 6/26/2008 11:49:55 AM | The issue presented is current. Just because it is an ongoing problem does not in any way negate the problem or make it old news.
I like words and phrases like we the people, by the people, for the people. This country was not founded for big business or corporations. Corporations are not people.
I know what some will say "Oh yes a corporation is a person." If you are familiar in the least with the history of the 14th Amendment you wouldnt make that statement. Big business bought that designation at the cost of many lives and the good standing of our Supreme Court after the Civil War.
I am not a good corporate citizen, I'm a citizen of the United States of America. | |
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| BIG BUSINESS OR BIG GOVERNMENT
Posted: 6/26/2008 12:10:16 PM | The question isn't either/or.
The question is, where does BIG BUSINEES end and BIG GOVERNMENT begin ?
The Pentagon has become a trade school for defense contractor representatives.
Congress has become a good reference on a resume for a lobbying job.
Colin Powell's personal worth was over $60 million when he was part of the administration. How does a career Army officer get to be worth $60 million ?
And, he was poor compared to the rest of the Bush gang !
Take a look at those credit cards in your wallet. Do you own a grocery store discount card ?
Do you think BIG GOVERNMENT violates your privacy ?
BIG BUSINESS really violates your privacy !
Your whole life is part of a data base traded freely among corporations who want to control your life. The insurance companies can estimate very accurately the day you are going to die and charge you accordingly.
BIG GOVERNMENT is only a front organization for BIG BUSINESS. | |
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| BIG BUSINESS OR BIG GOVERNMENT
Posted: 6/26/2008 1:00:34 PM | Businesses and governments are simply tools. They have no ethical qualities. Only people can make ethical decisions.
They're like a shovel. I can dig a garden or gut another human being with a shovel. Neither act is the shovel's fault. It's mine. The same goes for business and government.
The problem is that too often people replace ethics with ideology. The current most powerful ideology is that business is good no matter what it does and government is bad no matter what it does. Although the inverse ideology holds some sway.
Most of the people who feel most strongly on this question are ideologues of one sort or another. Since they don't believe they can do wrong they never stop to question what they're doing. This ensures they'll do the wrong thing.
Until we replace ideology and certainty with wisdom and doubt these problems will continue. | |
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| BIG BUSINESS OR BIG GOVERNMENT
Posted: 6/26/2008 6:05:11 PM | smokinhp
The issue presented is current. Just because it is an ongoing problem does not in any way negate the problem or make it old news.
I like words and phrases like we the people, by the people, for the people. This country was not founded for big business or corporations. Corporations are not people.
I know what some will say "Oh yes a corporation is a person." If you are familiar in the least with the history of the 14th Amendment you wouldnt make that statement. Big business bought that designation at the cost of many lives and the good standing of our Supreme Court after the Civil War.
I am not a good corporate citizen, I'm a citizen of the United States of America.
Thank you and I am sure there are a 300 million more just like US, WE just have to remind those WE elect to public office that WE are not going to forget them the day after elections
nipoleon
The question isn't either/or.
The question is, where does BIG BUSINEES end and BIG GOVERNMENT begin ?
The Pentagon has become a trade school for defense contractor representatives.
Congress has become a good reference on a resume for a lobbying job.
Colin Powell's personal worth was over $60 million when he was part of the administration. How does a career Army officer get to be worth $60 million ?
And, he was poor compared to the rest of the Bush gang !
Take a look at those credit cards in your wallet. Do you own a grocery store discount card ?
Do you think BIG GOVERNMENT violates your privacy ?
BIG BUSINESS really violates your privacy !
Your whole life is part of a data base traded freely among corporations who want to control your life. The insurance companies can estimate very accurately the day you are going to die and charge you accordingly.
BIG GOVERNMENT is only a front organization for BIG BUSINESS
nipoleon
I think WE need both if WE are going to survive as a nation, WE have over 300 million citizens and every one of them are part of what WE are referring to as big government , WE are the government, WE need to take control and revisit some of the laws and some of the processes used to make them. We have a lot of house cleaning to do.
Since big business does not really seem all that interested in moving on to the technologies of tomorrow it looks like maybe we have to create a competitive atmosphere to jump start them. I am not a John McCain fan but his offer of 300 million dollars for the first one who brings a marketable fuel cell battery into play seems like a good idea WE just need to sweeten the pot a little and increase the competitive urgency a little. WE are the government WE need to break our dependency on oil and a vehicle that would consume much less would be a great first step, this is the 21st Century and WE can step through the door by investing OUR tax dollars in 21st Century technology. If big business is not ready to invest then WE need to take the lead, WE are the government and the future is OUR responsibility. We can set this into motion and keep it going until WE have reached OUR goals
BIG oil has no incentive to invest in technologies that would reduce our dependency on oil, they can look forward to 50 years or more of record profits if they do not kill the golden goose before that. They will become more interested when they have a competitor but at this point WE have to move away from the use of fossil fuels as quickly as WE can. Whether we believe that global warming is real or not it’s pretty easy to look at the horizon over many of OUR cities and see what WE are doing to the air WE breathe and every living organism that shares it with us. WE are the government and as such WE have to get involved in OUR future. The world will become a better place to live when WE break OUR dependency on fossil fuels, WE are the government
Romantic Heretic
Businesses and governments are simply tools. They have no ethical qualities. Only people can make ethical decisions.
They're like a shovel. I can dig a garden or gut another human being with a shovel. Neither act is the shovel's fault. It's mine. The same goes for business and government.
The problem is that too often people replace ethics with ideology. The current most powerful ideology is that business is good no matter what it does and government is bad no matter what it does. Although the inverse ideology holds some sway.
Most of the people who feel most strongly on this question are ideologues of one sort or another. Since they don't believe they can do wrong they never stop to question what they're doing. This ensures they'll do the wrong thing.
Until we replace ideology and certainty with wisdom and doubt these problems will continue.
I am just a very common man but I know WE have the people who can get the job done if WE give them the opportunity, I understand the value of teams and the creation of competitive environments ,my approach is simplistic utilize the minds and the spirits of WE the people , give them the opportunity and the tools they need and they will provide the rest, WE have to remove the stigma that hangs like a shadow over the word Government, WE are the government all 300 million plus of US are the government and that might be considered to qualify US as BIG GOVERNMENT | |
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| BIG BUSINESS OR BIG GOVERNMENT
Posted: 6/26/2008 7:06:14 PM | Some one started a rumor and it grew and grew until WE could not see the forest for the trees, the rumor was that big government was bad and that WE should do every thing WE can to discourage them from becoming involved in our daily lives, “Them” who are they? Them seem to be the public servants “WE” elected to represent the best interest of our country, so on election day “WE” go to the poles cast OUR vote and walk away proud that WE have participated in the process of voting and then “WE” moan and groan for the next 4/6/8 years as the elected servants the ones that WE elected, do what big business wants them to do and naturally it’s not OUR fault, what can WE do what did WE expect to happen when the choices WE had really boiled down to picking the lesser of two evils.
Big government is what enables big business to run our lives. Want to take the power away from the corporations and give it back to the people? Take the power away from the government. | |
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| BIG BUSINESS OR BIG GOVERNMENT
Posted: 6/26/2008 8:02:36 PM | | THANK YOU!...I have been saying this for years! I am one man, I can only vote so many times (I really have no faith in our current government honestly)...Nothing positive is really being done for this country, the public schools are abysmal ( thanks to rotten parents, not teachers) It is time for the American people to unite NOW. The no-good scumbags in Washington (both the Democrats and Repulicans) have no interest in our well being...It is now a grass root situation which I hope will grow. I'm tired of hearing "that's the way it is why complain", so many people I talk to have become so complacent...They acually think it will all work out..People need to talk, express themselves...We the People can make a difference, the idiots in DC are not able or willing to make decisions...In closing DRILL OIL HERE NOW, NOT TOMORROW NOW!!! Probably a stupid statement, after seeing the infrastructure our American Oil companies first hand have in the Middle East (literal towns in Saudi Arabia) makes me wonder if they really want to set up and drill here...It will cost them money to do that, and of course it may drive down the price of oil per barrel, which is at $140 per barrel as of today! It is now speculated it will quite likely go to $170 per barrel! I will close and say again DRILL HERE NOW, NOT TOMMORROW...Bush obviously could care a less, Obama (the peoples favorite) doesn't agree with drilling here, same old liberal bias..We are in fact in hurting status, America needs to wake up, and conserve the best they can! I went on a tangent but can ONLY agre with what the OP stated! | |
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| BIG BUSINESS OR BIG GOVERNMENT
Posted: 6/26/2008 8:10:26 PM |
Some one started a rumor and it grew and grew until WE could not see the forest for the trees, the rumor was that big government was bad and that WE should do every thing WE can to discourage them from becoming involved in our daily lives, “Them” who are they? Them seem to be the public servants “WE” elected to represent the best interest of our country, so on election day “WE” go to the poles cast OUR vote and walk away proud that WE have participated in the process of voting and then “WE” moan and groan for the next 4/6/8 years as the elected servants the ones that WE elected, do what big business wants them to do and naturally it’s not OUR fault, what can WE do what did WE expect to happen when the choices WE had really boiled down to picking the lesser of two evils.
Big government is what enables big business to run our lives. Want to take the power away from the corporations and give it back to the people? Take the power away from the government.
CountIbli
Have you ever heard this United WE Stand Divided WE Fall, if you were able to separate big business from OUR government, you would have no government left but you would still have BIG BUSINESS left, big business that will now run the country without rules without laws, without restrictions of any kind and the big fish will feed on the little fish, of course they won’t feed on you , right?
WE are the government WE that is you and I and 300 million others WE have a choice WE can unite for freedom or WE can let big business dictate to us at any level they want to, we are self governed WE choose who it is that will represent our best interests, if that process is not working WE need to see to it that the intent of the process is followed by those WE elect who will GOVERN OUR nation WE are the government if it is not working WE need to make it work | |
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| BIG BUSINESS OR BIG GOVERNMENT
Posted: 6/26/2008 8:37:18 PM | | Let's do away with Supreme Court....Why can't we go to nation wide voting on a monthly basis? I know, more government to administer this.....But then again the government is full of fat literally, we all know that, maybe some of them can get off their fat butts and actually do somthing for their country i.e. administer monthly voting booths...Seriously, does anyone have faith in our Senate, Congress, or Supreme Court!!! | |
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| BIG BUSINESS OR BIG GOVERNMENT
Posted: 6/26/2008 9:50:02 PM | ....."for the last 8 to 12 years"....
Been going on for decades.....just has been soooooo...obvious in the last decade....
I agree with you.....WE THE PEOPLE CAN CHANGE THE WORLD..........However.........there are fewer and fewer .....PEOPLE....who care about ...." WE THE PEOPLE"...... Most ..... no longer care about....our rights.....or our power to change things....Or anything else for that matter......
My question is ....HOW do we WAKE them up...???? | |
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| BIG BUSINESS OR BIG GOVERNMENT
Posted: 6/27/2008 5:11:21 AM | Saltolibre
THANK YOU!...I have been saying this for years! I am one man, I can only vote so many times (I really have no faith in our current government honestly)...Nothing positive is really being done for this country, the public schools are abysmal ( thanks to rotten parents, not teachers) It is time for the American people to unite NOW. The no-good scumbags in Washington (both the Democrats and Repulicans) have no interest in our well being...It is now a grass root situation which I hope will grow. I'm tired of hearing "that's the way it is why complain", so many people I talk to have become so complacent...They acually think it will all work out..People need to talk, express themselves...We the People can make a difference, the idiots in DC are not able or willing to make decisions...In closing DRILL OIL HERE NOW, NOT TOMORROW NOW!!! Probably a stupid statement, after seeing the infrastructure our American Oil companies first hand have in the Middle East (literal towns in Saudi Arabia) makes me wonder if they really want to set up and drill here...It will cost them money to do that, and of course it may drive down the price of oil per barrel, which is at $140 per barrel as of today! It is now speculated it will quite likely go to $170 per barrel! I will close and say again DRILL HERE NOW, NOT TOMMORROW...Bush obviously could care a less, Obama (the peoples favorite) doesn't agree with drilling here, same old liberal bias..We are in fact in hurting status, America needs to wake up, and conserve the best they can! I went on a tangent but can ONLY agre with what the OP stated!
I agree WE have become complacent and that has allowed big business to influence too much of what happens in our country, WE are the government and WE need to tell those WE elect to office what WE need, until then they will listen to the squeaky wheel
The oil companies are stock piling oil leases (10,000) they probably won’t drill, why would they want to invest money to increase product availability when they can just keep raising the price at the pump. If they can purchase the available drilling rights now it will be at today’s market price if they are forced to work the leases they have before being allowed to purchase additional leases they will have to pay the market value at the time they purchase.
WE need to move away from fossil fuels in the future the near future in order to reduce OUR dependency on foreign oil and to protect OUR economy and OUR environment, WE don’t need to, WE can’t afford to, and OUR environment does not need another 50 years of fossil fuels
If the oil companies are allowed to drill any where they want it will still take 7 to 10 years to bring that new oil to the pump, WE should have new technology developed and being brought to the market place by then reducing the need and eventually eliminating most of OUR dependency on fossil fuels
Saltolibre
[quote ]Let's do away with Supreme Court....Why can't we go to nation wide voting on a monthly basis? I know, more government to administer this.....But then again the government is full of fat literally, we all know that, maybe some of them can get off their fat butts and actually do somthing for their country i.e. administer monthly voting booths...Seriously, does anyone have faith in our Senate, Congress, or Supreme Court!!!
Our supreme court justices should reflect a cross section of our citizens that will ensure debate and compromise between those serving, maybe we should look at how they are being appointed
WE should have faith in OUR supreme court, OUR senate, OUR congress and OUR President, if WE don’t WE are to blame for allowing them to represent other then the will of WE the people
boredbroad
....."for the last 8 to 12 years"....
Been going on for decades.....just has been soooooo...obvious in the last decade....
I agree with you.....WE THE PEOPLE CAN CHANGE THE WORLD..........However.........there are fewer and fewer .....PEOPLE....who care about ...." WE THE PEOPLE"...... Most ..... no longer care about....our rights.....or our power to change things....Or anything else for that matter......
My question is ....HOW do we WAKE them up...????
I think WE are being woke up now, that the sleeping giant has opened it’s eyes and is ready to re exert it’s energy into protecting the future of OUR country, WE have to destroy the myth that big government (WE THE PEOPLE) is the problem, it’s not, and if properly used may actually be the solution that WE need to jump start OUR slumping economy and enter into the technology race | |
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| BIG BUSINESS OR BIG GOVERNMENT
Posted: 6/27/2008 5:29:05 AM | >>>for the last 8 to 12 years we have seen what happens when Big Business is allowed to run our country, should we have expected a different outcome?
Funny- sounds like the last few years the Government, not businesses, have been making a grab for power.
>>>then you are probably happy and you are probably in the 10% of the population that’s controlling 90% of the wealth .
And how would this be any different with Big Government?
>>>the rumor was that big government was bad and that WE should do every thing WE can to discourage them from becoming involved in our daily lives,
And lets ask who started those rumors?
Thats right- the victims of Big Government- from the founding fathers to the victims of nazi and soviet rule, to modern dictators.
>>>“Them” who are they?
The same question could be asked about Big Business.
>>>US WE The PEOPLE are the GOVERNMENT
Then why doesn't the Government alway reflect the will of the people?
I must say, though, considering how much importance you've put on "WE" and "OUR", can I assume you're a communist? It would make sense- the best way to push for collective freedoms is to deny the individual exists- you do not matter, but 'we' do- and only people other than yourself are allowed to define who the 'we' is and is not.
In this case, the 'we' is clearly not the individual- the individual chooses who they take their business to, and who they do not- the individual chooses to invest in new techs that help them- the individual has complete control over Big Business- the only flaw, of course, is the existance of Big Government- if I don't like Northwest Airlines business tactics, I don't spend my money in Northwest Airlines- but Northwest Airlines still exist not because of the will of the people, but because money for forcefully taken from one group of people and given to another group of people. Big Business isn't empowered against the will of the people- they exist solely and entirely BECAUSE of the will of the people- if the people did not want it, it would not make money and would cease to exist.
The only exception to this is, ironically enough, a product of Big Government- where they take your money and invest it in things you would not normally invest it in, claiming it is the will of the people when it is the will of Big Government.
More Government means more harmful businesses- Less Government means less harmful businesses. They are branches of the same tree. | |
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| BIG BUSINESS OR BIG GOVERNMENT
Posted: 6/27/2008 6:37:50 AM | Jiperly
>>>for the last 8 to 12 years we have seen what happens when Big Business is allowed to run our country, should we have expected a different outcome?
Funny- sounds like the last few years the Government, not businesses, have been making a grab for power.
>>>then you are probably happy and you are probably in the 10% of the population that’s controlling 90% of the wealth .
And how would this be any different with Big Government?
>>>the rumor was that big government was bad and that WE should do every thing WE can to discourage them from becoming involved in our daily lives,
And lets ask who started those rumors?
Thats right- the victims of Big Government- from the founding fathers to the victims of nazi and soviet rule, to modern dictators.
>>>“Them” who are they?
The same question could be asked about Big Business.
>>>US WE The PEOPLE are the GOVERNMENT
Then why doesn't the Government alway reflect the will of the people?
I must say, though, considering how much importance you've put on "WE" and "OUR", can I assume you're a communist? It would make sense- the best way to push for collective freedoms is to deny the individual exists- you do not matter, but 'we' do- and only people other than yourself are allowed to define who the 'we' is and is not.
In this case, the 'we' is clearly not the individual- the individual chooses who they take their business to, and who they do not- the individual chooses to invest in new techs that help them- the individual has complete control over Big Business- the only flaw, of course, is the existance of Big Government- if I don't like Northwest Airlines business tactics, I don't spend my money in Northwest Airlines- but Northwest Airlines still exist not because of the will of the people, but because money for forcefully taken from one group of people and given to another group of people. Big Business isn't empowered against the will of the people- they exist solely and entirely BECAUSE of the will of the people- if the people did not want it, it would not make money and would cease to exist.
The only exception to this is, ironically enough, a product of Big Government- where they take your money and invest it in things you would not normally invest it in, claiming it is the will of the people when it is the will of Big Government.
More Government means more harmful businesses- Less Government means less harmful businesses. They are branches of the same tree.
First welcome to the United States of America and thank you for your input here in America
“We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America”
OUR constitution starts with the words WE the people not I the people, in a free society it IS the will or should be the will of the people that governs and ensures equality and equal opportunity for all of it’s citizens not a select few
The Viet Nam conflict which for your information I served in was a perfect example of what happens when a government is being run by Big Business, 50,000 young Americans dead and I don’t know how many others from all of the countries involved including Canada, the last 12 years here in America is a perfect example of what happens when a government is being run by big business and not the people that make up or should make up WE the People
Since America is falling out of the technology race or at least seems not to be keeping pace maybe it’s time for WE the People to get involved to make sure that our tax dollars are being used to the betterment of OUR society, WE found a way to develop the atomic bomb now maybe WE can find a peaceful way to develop the technology of the future that will bolster our economy , provide a solution to the energy and environmental crisis WE are facing and provide jobs not eliminate them.
If my concern for my fellow citizens and the future of my country makes me a communist then I am probably a communist, I do believe that a free society has to have laws to protect those who are at the bottom of the food chain as well as the 10% at the top of the food chain
The will of the people 90% not the will of one person or a small segment 10% should decide who and what laws governs, people is plural WE not singular I, Communist countries are run by the government but not a government elected by the people and not a government that listens to the will of the people- I would say that with an approval rating of 30% with an economy that is heading towards depression that the government of the United States is not being run by WE the people nor in the best interest of WE the people.
WE needs to be brought back into the government and then the government will work as it was designed to for WE the people | |
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| BIG BUSINESS OR BIG GOVERNMENT
Posted: 6/27/2008 7:06:03 AM | >>>“We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America”
So yes, you are a communist.
Also, I notice you mention the constitution and present something in quotes- but what you are quoting is not the constitution or the declaration of independence- what is it you quoted there?
>>>OUR constitution starts with the words WE the people not I the people, in a free society it IS the will or should be the will of the people that governs and ensures equality and equal opportunity for all of it’s citizens not a select few
So why are the select few who are successful are, according to your creed, slaves to the rest of the country? Shouldn't we all be equal, and if I succeed, it should be my successes and not yours?
I find it funny that you use the constitution to promote pro-government idealism, though- you use the very document that was created and enforced with the ideal that no government is to be trusted, and it is only through giving the people freedom from government that freedom can truly exist.
>>>The Viet Nam conflict which for your information I served in was a perfect example of what happens when a government is being run by Big Business,
Really? Did the Government start that war, or did Big Business?
>>>the last 12 years here in America is a perfect example of what happens when a government is being run by big business and not the people that make up or should make up WE the People
You still don't get it, do you?
If the country was run by Big Business, then [B]IT WOULD BE RUN BY THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE[/B]- you are not forced to do business with anyone without your own volitional consent- and the only exception to this rule is when the government takes your money and invests it in businesses you would not normally agree to do business with- when the Government intervenes, then a country ruled by big business is no longer a country run by the will of the people. I cannot stress this point enough- you are the promoter of your own demise.
>>>maybe it’s time for WE the People to get involved to make sure that our tax dollars are being used to the betterment of OUR society, WE found a way to develop the atomic bomb now maybe WE can find a peaceful way to develop the technology of the future that will bolster our economy , provide a solution to the energy and environmental crisis WE are facing and provide jobs not eliminate them.
Those are noble goals, and I really think you should prosue them- WITH YOUR OWN MONEY.
You talk about our freedoms being taken from big businesses, meanwhile you demand at the end of a gun that we empty our wallets to your idealism- I got news for you- if I owe my life to you, that makes me a slave- thats not freedom. You are literally promoting slavery in order to discard slavery- you are the dissertation of doublespeak.
>>>I do believe that a free society has to have laws to protect those who are at the bottom of the food chain as well as the 10% at the top of the food chain
Then why are the bottom 10% entitled to the wealth of the top 10%? Where are the top 10% rights? Why is it legal and only legal to steal from the successful and give it to the mediocre, the lazy, and the looters?
You preach of unlimited charity and a desire to help others- but all you demand is suffering- hell, your beliefs REQUIRE suffering- and to make these changes you demand are necessary not on the basis of your own charity, but on the forced charity of others- and you call it freedom. Admit it- this isn't about helping those who need money- its about punishing those who have it. | |
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| BIG BUSINESS OR BIG GOVERNMENT
Posted: 6/27/2008 7:29:51 AM | wow, that last "Jiperly" post was one of the most rambling and non-sensical so far. I read it three times and all the arguments either don't make any sense or are a far cry from addressing the issues that were suggested.
For example:
If the country was run by Big Business, then [B]IT WOULD BE RUN BY THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE[/B]- you are not forced to do business with anyone without your own volitional consent-
HUH???? How did you make that huge leap? If the country IS run by BIG BUSINESS, then clearly it is being run by the will of the smallest percentage of the voting public and the mandates set forth by BIG BUSINESS will be in the best interests of BIG BUSINESS not the majority of the public. Your arguments are inane.
Peace | |
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| BIG BUSINESS OR BIG GOVERNMENT
Posted: 6/27/2008 7:54:45 AM | WE need to The fatal flaw of democratic government is that there is no WE, there are only competing WE's that become US's and THEM's. Conflict and competition result from the laws of physics, which state that not everyone can live in the same waterfront mansion or get the last pork chop on the plate. You can try to arrange people into universal, blissful harmony, but then you have created mindlessness and lost freedom entirely. You can idealize some sort of society where laws and customs and enlightenment minimize conflict, but then you would still argue over whose ideals were to hold sway. No, I'm afraid that the best we can do is own up to the limitations of humanity and then kick butt when we have to and run like hell if it comes down to it.
Big Biz is the result of the minion millions wanting job security. Big Gov is the result of trying to organize life according to geography so that collective warfare replaces personal combat over every last little thing.
WE doesn't exist except when trying to rally support for battle against THEY. In the immortal words of Pogo: We have met the enemy, and they is us. | |
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| BIG BUSINESS OR BIG GOVERNMENT
Posted: 6/27/2008 8:02:48 AM | well said,...Paumanok,...
but let me add we the people has never existed, except as an admirable concept to strive for,...like heaven,.....
If it did then people who weren't independently wealthy could run for the highest office in the land too,.....
big business or big government,....it's a symbiotic relationship,....the one feeds the other,.... | |
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| BIG BUSINESS OR BIG GOVERNMENT
Posted: 6/27/2008 8:12:30 AM | Respectfully, I disagree that it is a choice between either big government or big business. Fact is that our government has never been bigger and it is still growing bigger everyday. Big business in fact LOVES big government because big government installs lots of red tape that small business cannot afford to competitively cope with while the huge corporations can deal with red tape effortlessly. Big government actually creates an atmosphere for big business to flourish because it drives small firms out of business. The painful truth is that our big government is what causes big business.
The reason I am not for big government is because government doesn’t produce anything it just consumes. Government is also the most inefficient possible entity to deal with any problems. If you are looking for the absolutely most expensive way to deal with any issue, just have the government come up with a solution for it. Once a department of the government is created, it lives forever too so even after the objective has been reached, that department justifies a new mission so that it survives and grows forever. Back in the Great depression, FDR created the rural electrification department and now that the whole country has electric and has for more than 40 years, that department is still alive and well and consuming our tax dollars. The department of education doesn’t educate anyone yet it only returns 1/3 of the money it takes in and consumes the other 2/3s. You really want more of that? Geez!
Another thing, big business and big government feed off of one another to the detriment of the citizens. Big business lobbies big government for things to help it and typically none of that is to the benefit of the public. Politicians only win elections with huge sums of money and that money comes from special interest groups with strings attached. Those public servants are not there to serve the needs of the public at all.
Lastly, when government is reduced in size along with the red tape that it creates, small business becomes extremely competitive and takes market share from big business. Consumers actually are given a choice between different products in the stores instead of the one and only product that the huge corporation used to provide. Essentially, the point here is that reducing big government results in reducing big business.
The happy news for you, OP, is that smart people like me are far and few between these days primarily because of government run education so your side (i.e. those that want the federal government to take care of everything for them.) is winning. The funny thing to me is that you seem unhappy with the results of your winning. Perhaps a lightning bolt of inspirational thought will hit you and others like you one day so that you all will see that big government is what causes big business to gain control. Perhaps the government needs to create a new department to study the concept. LOL | |
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