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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/27/2008 6:50:57 AM | Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Ever heard the expression ""Well we know who wears the pants in that relationship""
In every aspect of society there is always a leader and subsequently followers. It can never be different. At work you have or are the boss, the leaders of our countries, teacher in the class, tour guides, captain of a ship ...
Only one person can lead when men and women close dance. Sure you can both lead but one leading to the right and the other leading to the left will NOT be a dance that is fluid.
I feel that many time the boundaries are mixed up and so it creates mixed signals in relationships because unlike every other aspect where the lines are clearly defined, in relationships the lines become blurred.
Masculine energy and feminine energy has been lost to many people and this could be a big reason that people feel taken for granted.
An example might be, if you are a woman, the leader (boss) at work do you come home and lead the show there? If your partner is a leader (boss) at work do you come home and lead the show there also. Well how does that work. If you and your partner want to share the leader roll, then who gets to decide who gets to lead and when, and who get to follow and when.
It is not a person being above or below anyone, not in the least, but more a matter of how things will be delegated in your own environment with your partner. So often we hear that men THINK things and women FEEL things. But this is actually a mistake, thinking and feeling is not exclusive to man or woman but to male and female energy.
To have a relationship work you need masculine energy AND female energy. You might say no, but look closely towards gay relationships, there is most often a definite difference between the couple even in a single sex relationship. Two men, one will be more feminine and one more masculine, same as in two women together. The masculine side is represented and the female side is also represented.
There is nothing to be ashamed of, everyone is different that is all. If a man is a feeling man, so sensitive ... runs home from work to talk to his partner about the people at work who were nasty to him and he seeks comfort from the woman then he is showing clearly that his feminine side is stronger. His FEELINGS have been hurt and he come to the woman for comfort. Well then she had better be prepared to be the masculine side of the relationship to take care of this man's feminine qualities. That is balance in a relationship, no matter who is in which roll, as long as it is balanced.
These men need a thinking woman to help them solve their issues and make them feel better. (The opposite is true for women).
But what if the woman has these strong feminine qualities, and she is the one to come home upset, and her man has such strong feminine qualities ... who will step up to the plate?
Now you can see what will happen when two people, man and woman (man/man ; woman/woman) are both leaders at work and both want to be leaders at home. Strong masculine qualities.
PLEASE I AM NOT REFERRING TO YOUR ""ROLL"" OUTSIDE OF A RELATIONSHIP. I am talking about inside the relationship.
Lets assume, (for those who might get upset) that masculine is CONSIDERED the leader roll in a relationship. How can you have a connection with two people butting heads? Two people leading the dance thats not going anywhere.
Here is where I feel that the clash is inevitable ...
A man wants a woman who has feminine qualities, but he himself has the inability to be a leader (Capitan of the ship) of a relationship. Expecting the woman to take the lead and do all that is necessary to move the relationship forward into new and better things ... he is the crew. (one captain remember) Well this woman now has a problem, because they are the SAME. Both so wrapped up in FEELINGS, wow just like girlfriends.
IF woman wants a man who has masculine qualities, but she herself has the inability to be a follower (crew on the ship) of a relationship. This woman actually expects her man to step up to the plate, BE A MAN, but guess what she is already stepping on the plate and there is no room for the man. We have two masculine energies in this relationship. Both so masculine tied up in THOUGHTS, wow just line men friends.
Clashing in every way. Being unfulfilled with our partner because they are LIKE us and there is just no balance. Criticism is sure to follow. When a woman takes on the masculine, she should accept that a balance for her would be a man who would be more feminine, otherwise how the hell are they ever going to get alone.
BUT these woman want men with those great masculine traits and then dismiss these men as they consider themselves stronger ... push the man away. Disregard his natural leadership qualities and then perhaps this man is not only feeling taken for granted he also feels he has no place in this relationship. It's a masculine "friendship" intimacy becomes lost.
AS WELL, masculine men often chose women who have strong rolls in the work place, they are thrilled, but only to find that they are also like this at home. Can't leave the work way back at work. You have this man trying to be masculine, up against a woman with masculine tendencies. Clashing would be the description for a relationship such as this.
I went out with a man a few times, he had a job that was very high up in a large company ... seemed to me he was a very masculine man. Well I am drawn to this for I am very feminine ... ((NO NOT WEAK just feminine. Does that make me weak in a relationship? NO ... It actually means I am strong. I can appreciate men being men AND masculine and I appreciate me being a woman AND feminine.)) ... Well after a time, and me listening to all those who hurt his feelings, and the way he complained about his X ... I had to say to him, You are a great guy, but going out with you is like going out with my girlfriends.
The feminine aspects of him were just not a turn on for me. If I had more masculine tendencies he would have been a great catch !!! Good looking, really nice guy, completely in tuned with women ... could chat up a story with my gal pals and fit right in. The thing was I am not able to give masculine attention ... I am a woman and I am the one who wants/needs that masculine attention.
So ... I know long and drawn out ...........
Who are you, do you possess more masculine/feminine qualities ... if so, looking back what type of partner have you mostly chosen to date. Did you notice if they were more similar to you was it a cause of friction. Was that perhaps a reason you did not feel fulfilled in your relationship?
If you were of the same either masculine or feminine did you kind of loose the passion ... did it revert to a more of a friendship? Or did that person just not fulfill you needs? Left you feeling misunderstood and empty ???
Could that be one of the big problems here? Men wanting women who are strong and independent ... well maybe those women will never depend on you for anything ... then perhaps you just don't feel needed anymore. Maybe its who you chose that makes you feel emasculated.
Could that be one of the big problems here? Women wanting men who are tuned into their feminine side, yet are screaming out WHERE ARE the manly men?
Opinions are ALL welcome. | |
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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/27/2008 7:16:30 AM |
Who are you, do you possess more masculine/feminine qualities ... if so, looking back what type of partner have you mostly chosen to date. Did you notice if they were more similar to you was it a cause of friction. Was that perhaps a reason you did not feel fulfilled in your relationship? I often think that perhaps I would have made quite a good bloke. I even get women reading my forum posts and emailing me going "if only you were a man and single...". (When I was younger, I did wonder whether I might be gay or bi but so far I've never been remotely attracted to a person who happens to be female and I don't think it would happen.)
In tests for male/female brain orientation I come out as balanced halfway between: neutral. This reflects how I feel: not particularly one or the other. However, in a romantic relationship this is sometimes difficult. I am best suited to the more evolved and less caveman-like types as I am a thinking-feeling-reflecting type and love is very much about a meeting of minds; but I definitely am turned off by men who are feminine or girly in their behaviour. Being sensitive and emotional is not something I regard as feminine. Wearing pink hair bobbles, smelling or strawberries and fussing about your hair would make him more feminine than me and it starts to feel wrong: I'm not attracted to women and I'm not attracted to girly men. Men can be incredibly sensitive and intuitive and emotional and gentle souls without being girly.
My special someone is extremely sensitive and compassionate and the most emotionally intelligent person I've ever met. He's also not remotely girly. He works in construction, he's significantly stronger than me, spends no time faffing about over his appearance or clothing (at the moment I am trying to stop him making holes in all his aged t shirts to put his headphones wire through), he's a bit hardier than me and takes care of me by noticing when stuff is a bit too heavy for me heavy and insisting on carrying it, for example. If he wasn't as masculine as he is, we'd be friends, but the male-female dynamic that is necessary for a romantic relationship wouldn't be there. It just doesn't work for me to try to be with a man who is more feminine than I am.
I don't think that it's about being needed or not needed, I think it's just to do with the dynamics of attraction. Sensitivity and femininity may often go hand in hand but not always: there are sensitive and masculine men -- masculine does not always mean Ugg the caveman. | |
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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/27/2008 7:34:11 AM | | Well, I really think that roles typically are assumed in relationships based on chemistry with the couple. It is elementary to think that a guy is going to be in charge for the simple fact he is a guy. And vice versa. So I believe the real issue is whether a person knows their strengths and weaknesses. And if so do you accept them. I'd also consider that some people assume roles while single that they may not have normally been placed in. And once in a relationship they may be use to playing that same role. But at the end of the day I believe you get into a role that not only you are able to handle but that you are good at. The issue at that point to me is still whether you accept those things about yourself and if you chose to place blame for those things you may not accept onto your boyfriend or girlfriend. | |
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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/27/2008 7:35:51 AM | | I take the leadership role when it comes to spelling words like role instead of roll. I am the dominant speller in a relationship. I also tend to let haphazard conjecture roll off my back when I realize it has been cobbled together without reference to any of the existing knowledge freely available about its subject. | |
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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/27/2008 7:42:11 AM | | I tried to be 50/50 in my last relationship, because after 12 years of marriage, I thought that's what women wanted now. I tried letting the ex-gf make decisions about where we went, what we did, just basic relationship stuff, and when we broke up, she said things that were questioning my masculinity. So I can't tell you HOW it should be. I took the lead in my marriage and was accused of being "controlling". I let up and let it be 50/50 with the ex gf, and was told I wasn't being a "real man". So I don't know what the hell women want. | |
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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/27/2008 7:48:11 AM | I disagree with your premise that one person has to lead. In a relationship it is a give and take. If one person leads all the time then it is oppressive and the other person isn't getting to express their own unique needs and wants. I think in a healthy relationship people share in making decisions that affect them both and compromise on issues that aren't of great importance. It is an outdated concept that one person is the decision-maker and that makes for a good relationship. Whether the male or female is making the decisions all the time, it leaves one person unfulfilled and resentful.
I also disagree that having less defined rolls is the reason for disharmony. I'm sure many men resent women who demand an equal role in the relationship, but that isn't the fault of the woman, but of a man who defines his role so narrowly. There is a lot of this kind of analysis, most of it from the "men's rights" movement. I say hogwash! A relationship that validates both people and allows each person autonomy and equality is really the healthiest choice. | |
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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/27/2008 8:28:48 AM | If I find myself in a relationship where I am put in the position of being in charge, ie if he is irresponsible with money, then I do it - but only because I have to. I lead and I can lead very well, I can take care of things, I am pretty good at taking care of myself, my children, my job and my home after all!
But being the leader in a relationship with a man is too much for me, I would never have a chance to follow someone else, to be taken care of. Oh I want to take care of him of course, but things like foot massages, running his bath and cooking splendid meals for him. But I don't want to be his keeper, Mummy or Mistress. I don't like being in charge of my partner and it makes me secretly unsatisfied, spiteful and resentful. The relationship is therefore doomed unfortunately.
I would put up with a lot of flaws in a man if he took care of me. | |
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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/27/2008 8:29:22 AM | Rune3 did a pretty good job of stating what I was going to say about 'sensitivity'. Being a sensitive person (to me) entails being compassionate, empathetic, understanding, considerate, thoughtful, respectful. It doesn't mean being a wuss, pushover or girly-man. I am a sensitive, as well as, masculine man.
OP: "In every aspect of society there is always a leader and subsequently followers. It can never be different. At work you have or are the boss, the leaders of our countries, teacher in the class, tour guides, captain of a ship ..."
I agree with you OP, that there are leaders and followers....in work and in life. But I also disagree with what I am getting from the gist of your premise. For example, I have people at work that I supervise. Been in a supervisory role the past 14+ years. But I do not go home at night and keep my 'boss' hat on. When I enter my home, I leave work at work, and sort of assume my relationship role. Look at it this way....am I a boss at work? Yes. However, I also have a boss at work. So I do not go through my day or week as only the boss....rather, I go through it as both, boss and employee simultaneously. There is a balance constantly being maintained....just as there is in a relationship (or should be IMO).
From your examples above....leaders of our countries still answer to someone, i.e. the voters....teachers in the class still answer to Principals, Superintendents and school boards....Captains of ships answer to Admirals of fleets, etc.
People, whether in the workplace, or in a relationship want to feel valued. Part of feeling valued comes from feeling respected which comes from knowledge that they are safe to offer their opinions, have a voice in decision making....that they make a difference. If they don't feel this way, it won't be long and they will be looking for another job....or partner.
~ds~
*Edit to say "assume my relationship role" when I am in a relationship. | |
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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/27/2008 8:38:09 AM | | I agree that it is give and take in a relationship. Otherwise one person can try to control the other and that is not healthy, resentment will build which in turn will lead to arguing and problems. Usually, there is a dominant personality but it shouldn't be to the point of bossing the other person around. We each have strengths to bring to the relationship and hopefully learn to work as a partnership/team. | |
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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/27/2008 8:47:14 AM | I struggle with how you want to define energy as either male or female. The only reason why we tend to characterize traits as either female or male is pretty much societal based on both a religious and patriarical(sp?) history. I can fit into either catagory dependant on my surroundings, emotional and physical health and variety of other factors on a daily basis.
Frankly I dont think there is such thing as male or female energy. I think that both men and women have been brought up to believe that to show anything other than the standard is a negative, so we have forced ourselves into the gender boxes and suppressed who we truly are. If this wasnt the case over the past couple thousand years, I think it stands to reason that things wouldnt be as they are now. | |
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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/27/2008 8:52:10 AM | Someone once said that a relationship is like a dance...sometimes you lead, and other times you follow.
And from my own personal experience, the best relationships are the ones where this is done effortlessly without missing a step, or stepping on each other's toes.
JMHO | |
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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/27/2008 8:57:52 AM | My idea of a good relationship is people walking next to each other because as I am perfectly capable of functioning on my own, I do not wish to be led by someone nor do I wish to lead another person.
Most people have strengths and weaknesses, people with an area of strength should handle that thing but there are also instances when both people are strong in a particular area and in those cases, I would suspect you would split up the duties or alternate who takes care of them, i.e. if you have the time, do it.
I was married to a man who was interested in who was wearing the pants and he can really take his pants and this whole concept and shove it up his rear. A lot of men who complain about being emasculated do not take responsibility for their failure to step up and do things or take care of things, instead preferring to blame their problems on their SO.
A man comfortable in being one does not base this opinion of himself on how I treat him. I treat people well so as long as he reciprocates and/or appreciates, that is not going to change. This has to do with working as a team, helping each other, rather than keeping a tally card or sitting on your ass while the other person is carrying the load. If that is a real man, I will take a pass because my experience is that this describes an overgrown child. | |
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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/27/2008 9:28:34 AM | There is no "pants-wearer" in a relationship. Each person has a role to play, each has strengths and weaknesses. Sometimes the man is better at finances, sometimes the woman is. Each relationship finds its own ground. My sister and her hubby take turns being "dominant" in certain things--he drives not because he's a BETTER driver, but because he's a WORSE passenger. She plans vacations because she does a btter job at it than he does, although he gets the better rates once she decides what will be done.
I really do believe men struggle with this concept more than do the women. | |
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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/27/2008 9:37:08 AM | | I think it's just a question of give and take. Having someone tell you what you should do and who you should be isn't the key to a happy relationship. Agreeing to disagree occasionally is, which is why so few people actually have happy relationships. It should be about having equal respect for each others opinions, and not trying to undermine any one side of the party. If you can say "I like a strong man/woman, a man/woman who stands by his/her principles, but who is prepared to accept that my/their principles also have value and vice versa", then you could be on the road to potential happiness within a relationship. That is of course if he/she is of the same mindset. | |
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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/27/2008 9:42:04 AM | Fifty fifty does it for me, give and take, take and give.
Anyone gets bossy I get bored and wonder off the joy of being single dont have to be bossed about by anyone ever. | |
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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/27/2008 9:51:40 AM | I don’t believe that there should be a lead in a relationship. I know that it happens, but it happens when one partner backs down mentally. It may be a natural thing, a coping mechanism.
I wouldn’t want to control anyone; in fact, I expect others to control themselves. I get irritated when others go passive all the time. You can see it in wolf pacs where there is always a dom/sub fight happening. The sub drops to the ground to show submission. While this may be fun while playing in bed, it is not something that I would want a woman doing during daily events. I want a woman with a strong and capable character. But, that does not mean that I would want her to be controlling or Bittchy towards me; towards others would be ok,,lol.
A good leader knows how to read others; knows when to give support and fill in when needed, but also knows when to back down and let others do their thing, as long as they know what they are doing. I believe that a relationship should be between two good leaders. Once they learn to read each other then their lives are much better than when they were single.
Men wanting women who are strong and independent ... well maybe those women will never depend on you for anything ... then perhaps you just don't feel needed anymore.
I think that strong and independent is a good think, but feeling needed is a good thing also. If a woman tells a man that she does not need him, then there is something wrong. Why would a woman say that to a man? She is either insecure and is trying to be independent, or she really is heartless, or maybe he is a pansy and is hovering while she is wanting him to back off. Whichever the case, one of the two is not reading the other properly. | |
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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/27/2008 9:57:48 AM | A man wants a woman who has feminine qualities, but he himself has the inability to be a leader (Capitan of the ship) of a relationship. Expecting the woman to take the lead and do all that is necessary to move the relationship forward into new and better things ... he is the crew. (one captain remember) Well this woman now has a problem, because they are the SAME. Both so wrapped up in FEELINGS, wow just like girlfriends.
IF woman wants a man who has masculine qualities, but she herself has the inability to be a follower (crew on the ship) of a relationship. This woman actually expects her man to step up to the plate, BE A MAN, but guess what she is already stepping on the plate and there is no room for the man. We have two masculine energies in this relationship. Both so masculine tied up in THOUGHTS, wow just line men friends.
... If you were of the same either masculine or feminine did you kind of loose the passion ... did it revert to a more of a friendship? Or did that person just not fulfill you needs? Left you feeling misunderstood and empty ???
Could that be one of the big problems here? Women wanting men who are tuned into their feminine side, yet are screaming out WHERE ARE the manly men?
I think that there might be some misunderstanding about your use of the term leadership and the way you have applied it to men (given that most of us would agree that there are some areas in which women usually lead), and many people might be put off by your phrase "Both so wrapped up in FEELINGS, wow just like girlfriends, " especially when combined with the idea that masculinity is "tied up in thoughts."
Your statements make it sound as if having feelings is a feminine trait, and thinking is a masculine trait. I know you didn't mean it that way, but you have expressed a difficult concept in a way that makes it easy for people to misinterpret your meaning.
Having said that, I think there is assertiveness in masculinity that is generally different from assertiveness in femininity within male-female relationships. It is inherently masculine to take charge of situations, but always with consideration for others' opinions, safety, and desires. In addition, it is masculine to be protective of others and to plan ahead and make things happen.
I don't see femininity as submissive at all. I see femininity as cooperative with masculinity, as well as nurturing and protective. In this post, I've stated that both men and women are leaders and protectors, but each in their own way. Masculinity and femininity are different, and each brings something necessary and valuable to relationships.
Your post brings to mind a recent experience I had with a man. In a heartbeat, I grew very close to him emotionally. It took no time at all for us to become the best of friends, but that's all there ever was for us. He wasn't feminine enough for our relationship to work as "girlfriends," but he wasn't masculine enough for our relationship to work as romantic. His lack of masculine energy (to use your term) limited our relationship to the point that I ended it. He was simply unable to make things happen. He would not drive our relationship, so it went nowhere. It stalled, and now it's over.
For a man to be "tuned into my femininity," he won't be expressing femininity at all; his masculinity will complement my femininity, and that dynamic will strengthen our relationship. | |
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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/27/2008 10:03:41 AM | I enjoyed this article. It did make me think of how I show up and what I am getting in a relationship.
I do think you should have someone proof read the posting prior to submitting. There are several errors.
roll vs. role
loose vs. lose
alone vs. along
It's vs. In
Don't take this wrong, it was a great article! | |
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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/27/2008 10:49:32 AM | I didn't read all of that, sorry.. it was too long, but I'd still like to comment on the topic...
When I was very young, I was meek.. I attracted tough, aggressive men because I was not at all in touch with my own masculine/dynamic energy...
When I first began to develop that side of myself, it was at the expense of my feminine side for fear of being "too" vulnerable.. so the men I attracted began to change... soft, compliant and needy.. I became the one who took the lead and wore the pants..
I have now learned to balance my own masculine/feminine energies.. therefore nothing less than equality will ever satisfy me again :) | |
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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/27/2008 11:07:55 AM | | ~OT~ The man in my life is the lead. Period. I don't want the job. I want a voice in the relationship, I want to be heard and considered, but I don't want to be the leader. It takes a strong (in all aspects of life) man to accept that responsibilty. I do so treasure those who are willing and able to do so. JMO | |
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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/27/2008 1:19:45 PM | Wow... PretaPorter really read my mind when she shared her thoughts.
I feel *exactly* the same. I am quite capable of leading but I get resentful of being the leader 24/7. As I say abou tmy ex, he couldn't find his as* with 2 hands.
Seeking a partner now, I have really looked for man who can hold his own and is capable of being the leader. dominant in bed and out. Who is strong enough to take the crap that I dish out, and dish it right back to me if needed. Who I can lean on but will also leean on me.
My current guy...he's got about half ofthat down. He's strong, capable, a nurturer so he is quite happy for me ot lean on him. He still needs to learn to trust me - to lean on me sometimes - and to communicate how he feels. He's great about responding to when I am upset about something b/t us, but he won't share when he is upset. Grrr...
Anyway, I feel that it is a give and take, but also there is a natural "strength" in a person and that strength determines who will lead, at least when there is a big disparity.
I also disagree that 2 leaders or 2 followers won't be happy. Because I don't think we are all either or. I think we exist on a continuum... I might be more leader-ey than someone else, but less than another person.
Kaylie | |
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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/27/2008 1:35:11 PM | I'm the pants most all the way! 
But, that said, I dig his manly stuff and he digs my girly girl stuff. It is a dance, but it's a moody dance; sometimes we switch up dependent on who needs what. I think genuinely caring about someone kinda softens all the edges.
I dunno why or what it's about...maybe it's a southern thing, but the women in my family, and most all the families I know of, rule the roost. We're so dominant we scare 'em silly!  | |
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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/28/2008 8:20:35 AM | ~OT~ The man in my life is the lead. Period. I don't want the job. I want a voice in the relationship, I want to be heard and considered, but I don't want to be the leader. It takes a strong (in all aspects of life) man to accept that responsibilty. I do so treasure those who are willing and able to do so. JMO
If you expect a man like that you need to be stronger than him emotionally. There's a cost for everything. He will be leaning more on you can lean on him. Are you willing to be the emotional backbone/emotional protector and be the nurturing one? Most woman aren't willing to take on such a hefty emotional responsibility so what do you expect from men.
There is nothing to be ashamed of, everyone is different that is all. If a man is a feeling man, so sensitive ... runs home from work to talk to his partner about the people at work who were nasty to him and he seeks comfort from the woman then he is showing clearly that his feminine side is stronger. His FEELINGS have been hurt and he come to the woman for comfort. Well then she had better be prepared to be the masculine side of the relationship to take care of this man's feminine qualities. That is balance in a relationship, no matter who is in which roll, as long as it is balanced.
These men need a thinking woman to help them solve their issues and make them feel better.
If the guy is the leader he's is the one that should be getting comfort. She should be the one that makes him feel better. This is agreed upon by society too. Why did all home ec text books say to let the husband relax and let him talk about this day first?
BOTTOM LINE: The leader (the one who has more responsibilities and makes the most decisions) should be the one being comforted , not the comforter. Why would the one with more responsibilities comforting the one with less? That's an emotional leech. If I am the leader my feelings come first. You make me feel better first, then you. | |
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| Who takes the Lead in your Relationships?
Posted: 6/28/2008 9:05:52 AM |
Why would the one with more responsibilities comforting the one with less?
I don’t think that you fully understand what it means to be a leader. As a leader you have to make sure that everything is done before you rest. That is strength.
How in the hell are you going to call yourself a leader when you come home and say me,me,me? That is a leech.
What you are talking about is the man being the breadwinner, and the woman being the leader at home. | |
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