| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/27/2008 7:44:24 AM | Alright, the potty training thread made me think of this.
I know a woman that is currently breast feeding a 4 year old. He will be 5 in 2 months. The child actually refuses to drink out of a cup. She is also breast feeding a 2 1/2 year old. Must have a lot of milk! Anyho...so thoughts on this?
(And I'll put this out there too...yes, it is Welder's ex and she uses the 'I still breast feed my kids' as an excuse (one of many) for them not to see their father).
~Welder's Girl~ | |
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/27/2008 8:07:01 AM | As a former extended nurser... not really sure what you're asking here. For the record, extended nursing is beyond 12 mo. My first breastfed for 16 mo, the second was 39 mo.
There are many reasons behind why someone would want to do it, and many reasons behind why someone would not want to do it. Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing?? Those are pretty much different depending on who you talk to.
From my experiences tho, both of mine were drinking from a cup and taking the majority of their nutrition in other forms once they hit 12-24 mo. My second was not much of an eater, often going 2-3 days without eating solids, even at 2 yrs of age. Add to that the fact he has eczema and is uber sensitive to bug bites, I felt it was better for him to nurse as long as possible.
Sounds like Welder's ex is using it as an excuse. She wants to be in control over access to the kids, and this is something that many will not challenge. However.. the 5 yo is going to have a hard time in school if she doesn't get him drinking from a cup of some sort... I mean.. she'd have to be "on-call" for both the children all the time. Does she work? If she does, what do the kids do during the day?? Not drink anything at all until mommy shows up? That isn't healthy for the kids... hello.. dehydration..
I don't have a problem with her nursing at those ages. I do have a problem with her using that as an excuse to keep Welder from seeing the kids. | |
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/27/2008 8:43:35 AM | | i fed my second up till he was about 4, but only at night from about 2 and a half, i think its rubbish about it only being beneficial for 12 months, as it doesnt suddelny become un nutritious. surely its better than powdered milk and baby processed food?? not diggin at anyone as i used them too. Its sad that its very rare you see a mother breast feeding in public.. i think its each to there own... so carry on feeding as long as you like boll** to anyone who doesnt like it........oh and if my sons sees this he aint gonna be happy with me... had to buy him a skate board to try and wean him off, so my daughter reminded me.. lol !!! | |
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/27/2008 8:51:21 AM | Actual breastfeeding of the nearly 5 year old, or pumping?! Sheesh...I think that is way extreme! What will she do when the child enters a school environment?!
I have known two different ladies who breastfed a little past 3-4 years...and I thought that was just ugh. In fact, one of them...we were in a park with our kids...and that's how I met her...her almost 4 year old approached her and lifted her shirt!
I breastfed mine...am pro-BF completely...but once they reach 12-18 months, I think that is IT. I stopped BF mine for teeth reasons...one of my buggers bit me so hard I thought I lost a nip! LOL
Here is an article on such http://www.breastfeeding.com/reading_room/wean.html which seems to be pro-BF for longer times...so, to each their own, but for me...it's just inappropriate.
Welder needs to exercise his parental rights...she needs to either pump and send along with the child, or wean. | |
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/27/2008 8:55:26 AM | That is one lucky little fellow....
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/27/2008 9:08:51 AM | | I think that there are definite health benefits to breastfeeding for longer than the traditional amount of time...I just do not believe that it should be straight from the source. It's not associating it with the sexual aspect of the breast or anything as such...it's just odd to me. To each their own, really. But I think in the OPs case, since it comes between a father/child relationship...the benefits of breastfeeding can be reduced by the benefit of the relationship forming. Period. | |
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/27/2008 10:30:28 AM | Harley---she actually breast feeds. No pumping. Her lawyer just told our lawyer that they have doctor's orders for her to continue breast feeding, as it is detrimental to HER health. WHAT? They are using this as a huge ploy to try to get around him having any visitation. Just one of many things, but I fould it quite appalling to be honest with you. Welder asked her why she was still breast feeding and her reply was 'The same reason that I still sleep in the same bed with MY parents. Because I can.". That's a whole 'nother issue when a 22 year old is sleeping with her parents. Ehhhh. But when Welder was on the phone with her (we had her on speaker phone), we could hear his son saying 'mommy, give me the boobie'...I mean, he started SCREAMING his head off about it.
Anyho...I guess I just find it a bit odd that a kid that will be starting school next year is still latched on to his mom's breast.
And to answer whether or not she works...she worked for 2 months, long enough to rip Welder off on child support. As soon as the CS went through, she quit. So, no, at this time she does not work.
~Welder's Girl~ | |
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/27/2008 10:40:58 AM | | Ew, ew, ewwww! That's just beyond co-sleeping!!!! | |
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/27/2008 12:16:36 PM | Lucky little devil whitewitch64....I thought that coffee you made me was a little bit on the milky side!  | |
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/27/2008 12:34:58 PM | Some cultures routinely breastfeed up to the age of 5. I breastfed my first two children until around a year, the third child until he was 2. The benefits to breastfeeding are for the children not the mother. If she is breastfeeding the younger child then there is no reason substantiating continuing to feed the older one in terms of her health, what a nut.
The problem with breastfeeding until this age is she has not taught the child to drink out of a cup, which all of mine did while they were breastfeeding. If he is not already in pre-school and having an issue he will be in kindergarten next year and even if she is homeschooling the kid, she is creating a problem because it is just not socially acceptable in most western countries to breastfeed a child until that age. She really should have stopped with the oldest one while she was pregnant with the younger.
This is an issue that should be addressed with the court because while they cannot order her to stop breastfeeding, they can order the visitation whether the child will drink from a cup or not. I suspect away from mom with no other alternative, the kid will learn to drink like a child instead of a baby.
You ought to talk to child services because I would assume that the kids are sleeping with grandma and grandpa too? Even if they are not, there are certain things that are just not considered appropriate for children. Here, they require that there are no more than two children to a room, that a door cannot be removed from the hinges, etc. I would expect the same things work there, check out what violations exist at that home and if nothing else, it can be addressed with her lawyer in terms of her discontinuing screwing Welder out of visitation. | |
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/27/2008 1:16:28 PM | | Romans had a belief that if they fed from a nursing mother before a battle it would give them great strengh, The Roman Emperer Titus was a firm believer in this! | |
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/27/2008 2:26:05 PM | Bizarre?
I've met the odd Mum who breastfed till 5 years + to boost the child's immunity as they were transplant patients etc but I'm sure everyone will agree children that need transplants are exceptional cases. School was not top of the priority list for these kids - staying alive was if you see what I mean. Health conscious 3rd world mothers often breast feed for extended periods because they don't have th same access to clean disease free drinking water and immunisations that we take for granted. Other parents do it from personal choice but don't let it interfere with allowing their kids a normal social life etc.
I don't get why she can't express so the kids can see their Dad? An awful lot of working Mums do this as a way of giving far younger babies the best start in life they can.
The lady above who mentioned this kid is at risk of dehydration when they go to school had a very valid point. Drinking from a cup, using a knife and fork and being able to spend a few hours away from the primary care giver are all skills we have to give our kids before they get to school for the child's sake.
Weighing up the benefits of having a relationship with a father and still direct feeding at nearly school age it seems a no-brainer - Daddy wins!
Strikes me she's on a power trip which will eventually backfire badly on her when the kids wise up to her game playing. She needs to understand fast her kids aren't pawns.
As for her still sleeping with her parents at 22. Why? | |
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/27/2008 2:33:59 PM | | wow... I think I would request a second opinion from a doctor of my choosing and possibly some involvement from a mental health professional. I won't say that I am totally against breast feeding for older kids but, I think they should be able to drink from a cup as well... and be able to spend time away from mommy! | |
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/27/2008 2:38:30 PM | Packagedealx3.. there ARE benefits for a mother to breastfeed for longer. It does help lower the mother's risk of developing breast cancer. Not to mention it does help keep her chemically stable. Nursing releases a couple different natural hormones that help stave off depression and keep mom in a *happy* state... calmer, relaxed, happy.
And.. why should she have stopped nursing the older one while preganant??
My oldest couldn't have cared less about the nursing when I stopped doing it. The youngest was a addicted... and I tried to wean him several times, but because of his health and my familial history we just had a very casual attitude about it. He stopped nursing in public at about 2 yrs, and really only nursed at home 3 or 4 times a day until the last 6 mo, and then he was nursing first thing in the morning, and again before bed.
Funny thing is.. he still prefers to drink his food then to eat it. | |
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/27/2008 2:57:30 PM | | In the OP it's evident that mom is not exercising the parental veto. Extended Nursing into age 5 is not unhealthy, but a kid who is nursing and not drinking out of a cup has some sort of autonomy issue. The root is probably somewhere between not getting to stay with dad and having to share the well with a sibling. | |
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/27/2008 4:16:49 PM | | She could be pumping milk for the children to bring when they come for a visit. The fact she is breastfeeding them should not prevent visitation. You may have to supply the pump though. | |
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/27/2008 8:22:17 PM | My comment about stopping nursing when pregnant was because at 2 1/2, most people would stop breast-feeding but you don't want to do things with a baby on the way that can be construed as her stopping breast feeding the older child so she can feed the younger child. This was why I transferred my 2nd child from the crib when he would have stayed in it longer because I didn't want him to think the bed was a bad change related to the baby taking his place so I accomplished that when I was still pregnant so the events would not be connected.
She was certainly not obligated to stop breastfeeding the first baby but at that age, it would have been a logical time to stop. With my first weaning was actually necessary but with the other two, they just sort of stopped on their own but if my 3rd had not stopped himself by the time he was 2 I would have weaned him because that was plenty of time for both he and myself to benefit from breastfeeding.
I generally support breast-feeding unless someone just isn't able to produce enough milk and if people are unable to pump at work and keep the child on breast milk if they are in a daycare situation, your body does adapt to morning and night feedings as they age anyway, that is also an option when breastfeeding is difficult logistically. I don't think it is horrendous if things go beyond the age of 2 but when you have other children she should have considered what the consequences would be if she failed to wean the older one before the younger one arrived.
In this instance the crux of the problem seems to be that she has no intention of weaning the child, he needs to learn to drink from a cup before he starts school even if she still refuses to wean him, and she is above all using this as an excuse for her child not to visit with his dad and that is unconscionable even if she is supposedly doing this for the benefit of herself and her child, and seriously, she is still breastfeeding the younger one, she will reap the benefits whether she still breastfeeds the older one or not. | |
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/27/2008 10:20:02 PM | Actual breastfeeding of the nearly 5 year old, or pumping?! Sheesh...I think that is way extreme! What will she do when the child enters a school environment?!
I have known two different ladies who breastfed a little past 3-4 years...and I thought that was just ugh. In fact, one of them...we were in a park with our kids...and that's how I met her...her almost 4 year old approached her and lifted her shirt!
I breastfed mine...am pro-BF completely...but once they reach 12-18 months, I think that is IT. I stopped BF mine for teeth reasons...one of my buggers bit me so hard I thought I lost a nip! LOL
Here is an article on such http://www.breastfeeding.com/reading_room/wean.html which seems to be pro-BF for longer times...so, to each their own, but for me...it's just inappropriate.
Welder needs to exercise his parental rights...she needs to either pump and send along with the child, or wean.
The WHO recommends breastfeeding until age two and as long as both child and mother are comfortable after that point. It is lame that she's using it as an excuse to keep her kid's father away from them.
How is it "inappropriate"? I think it's inappropriate for people to allow their four year olds to suck on paci's out in public (it actually icks me out), but I don't push that opinion on anybody.
I don't think that "exercising parental rights" includes dictating when to wean. I'm about 99% sure that the courts will agree with me.
I am a member at breastfeeding.com 
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/27/2008 10:32:14 PM | have you seen the youtube video, Breastfeeding... at 8 ?
pretty interesting | |
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/27/2008 10:39:09 PM | ~Welder's Girl~
As to the original question, I think the age at which breast feeding stops typically is case by case ( could be off but usually the average I think is around 12-24 months mostly drinking from the cup). I nursed my oldest, but can't use that for reference as she just decided on her own at 8 months that she was going to drink from a cup like a grown-up. (She was very early in all of her milestones).
However on the element of the attorney using nursing as a ploy? Nix that. My personal opinion is that at age 4, it's a wee bit old at a minimum for the child to be continuously nursed and actually, as evidenced by your post describing the child's reaction? Uh uh...huge red flags there with the mama. Major red flags - she still sleeps with her parents? Um....major HUGE boundary issues there unless they are destitute and there is no other choice. I'll leave that alone and let you read between the lines.
Frankly, if I were in Welder's situation, document document document and sue for full custody. Child is already behaviorally begging for security, clearly defined structure and someone to parent him. If the mom is sleeping with her parents, where on earth is the child sleeping? Or dare I even ask? Read between the lines and watch as well as document the child's behavior as well as the surrounding circumstances.
His judgment call (Welder's)l, but there are enough red flags a-waving ( and please don't see this as a judgment on anyone nursing an older child as not intended as such) that it warrants a call to the abuse registry on suspicion alone. JMHO. | |
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/27/2008 10:47:46 PM | My sister sent me a video from the bbc with an 8 year old girl that still wants to be nursed at 1-1.5 k of calories spent a day making the milk you would think the woman would be thinner.
I must know if you are in the states because in the usa men have rights to their kids | |
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/27/2008 10:49:45 PM | The WHO recommends breastfeeding till at least 2. There are still many health benefits for mother and child past the age of two.
The human body is actually designed to breastfeed till around age 8, by which point the child has lost their 'milk' teeth and in turn the ability to latch I find it bizarre that society has been conditioned to think something so natural is wrong or ick.
I'm (was really youngest no longer breastfeeds) quite a militant breastfeeder but think she is being quite extreme. | |
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/27/2008 11:40:38 PM | I really think you need to quit taking everything to lawyers as well; and just get into court. The lawyers are no doubt making big bucks going back and forth on all these issues.
I have heard some lawyers will even instigate in some cases... just so they can remain on the payroll. | |
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/29/2008 10:04:47 AM | Package: Welder did question her on where the children are sleeping. Supposedly, they share a bedroom (which, by our state laws are fine until they reach a certain age). However, they do only live in a 2-bedroom house. But there is a room that could be turned into an extra bedroom if need be. That's why I really don't understand why she sleeps with her parents. She told Welder once that she slept in there that way she got some sleep besides listening to the various noises that little kids make. Hey, I understand that, but sleep on the couch! Welder said that that was one of the biggest downfalls of their relationship was that she was never willing to move out from their home and that she would rather sleep in the bed with her parents then to sleep in the bed next to him.
Fatih: As to WHY she still sleeps with them. I really don't know to be honest with you. My personal opinion on that front is that it is disgusting. I slept with my parents til I was 9 and then my sister came along. My sis is 16 and I know that SOMETIMES she will go take a nap with my mom...but it's usually when her bed is covered with stuff b/c she is trying to clean her room. And it happens maybe twice a year. But from what she has told us...it's an every night thing in their house.
Aggie: I actually bought a pump when my daughter was born 3 months premature. It was cheaper for me to buy, then to rent. It's hospital grade and was used only a few times since I didn't produce milk. I offered it to her and she declined saying "My kids will only eat off my tits" YES...she said 'tits'.
angelah: Unfortunately, you are correct about the courts view on 'weaning'. Her lawyer is petitioning the judge for HER to come and stay at OUR house if he is granted visitation. Which, just isn't going to work for me. I feel like it is an invasion of my privacy and will definently put a damper on our activites and lives if we have to board her every other weekend also.
angelheart: I agree with you. I think with the combination of things at their house, it just doesn't set right.
Yabba: Yeah, I know that lawyers play shiesty little games. Right now he is working on a flat fee, rather than by the hour. So, hopefully things will get resolved soon.
What I was saying to angelah...I've actually told Welder that if a judge agrees to some f'ed up stuff as her having to come stay at our house on the weekends that the kids get to visit, then I am moving out. Because that, to me, is a bit overboard on letting a court control MY house in regards to an adult. I've stood by him through a LOT of stuff, but that is one thing I will not tolerate.
~Welder's Girl~ | |
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| Breast Feeding?
Posted: 6/29/2008 1:42:46 PM | If she truly still needs to sleep with Mummy & daddy despite being and adult mother of two herself and the children are so infantilised that at nearly school age they can't be alone with their own father or drink from a cup then I really don't think you have to worry about lawyers much longer.
I forsee the school stepping in with referrals to child psychlogists re the eldest kid, follwed by threats from child protective services a little further down the line. If your man is "normal" I think he may eventually be begged by the authorities to take custody rather than have the state pay for long term foster care.
"Odd, strange, peculiar, wierd etc "is how her set up and parenting is gonna come across to your average school teacher. If the child is lacking in what are considered really basic LIFE skills they are obliged in most developed countries to refer the child (and by inference the primary carer) to specialists for further investigation. | |
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