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| Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 6/28/2008 11:42:11 AM | Scenario: He comes home from the bars at 2:30 in the morning.. his eyes blurry and his lips roaming around his face like outta-control strips of liver and she just knows that he is on the warpath... He wants to fight. She stands quietly, knowing that anything she might say or do will be fodder for his cannon. He drunkenly decides that she thinks she's too good for him and lunges at her, intending to beat the hell out of her. She breaks away, runs out the door and calls the police. (IF she's lucky...) The police come and take him away....(End of scenario)
Have you been in this circumstance? If you have, what happened to you in the months to follow? Did the Crown (here in Canada) or the Prosecutor's office (in the States) contact you to discuss the matter with you before the trial? Were you treated respectfully by the police and the other authorities you came into contact with? Were there agencies who helped you or refused to help you? Did you end up free or having to return to the offender?
Let's talk about what actually happens and perhaps even, answer some people's questions about "why doesn't she JUST leave?" | |
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| Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 6/28/2008 1:22:52 PM | The 3-legged dance of "victim"...is always perplexing. Having some professional experience with this...its very difficult to ascertain why each individual doesn't press charges, get permanent TRO/injunction, take self-defense/concealed permit training, counseling for their own battered psyche...and leave.
Inculcated to "stay no matter what" by mis-applied judeo-christianity, unhealthy esteem/identity issues, dependency (usual financial, but can encompass emotional, "love", identity...), codependency, enabling, poor/no boundaries, to name a few reasons... all contribute strongly.
I've heard everything from "i wouldn't do that to the kids father/mother (yes, definitely not gender exclusive)'-BUT THEY WOULD DO THIS TO HIS KIDS MOTHER???? to...
But I love him...
when He's not drinking, he's wonderful...
He's a good (provider, father, lover, man....)
Marriage is till death (it might be...sooner than ya think)
I've got no way to make a living (not worth dieing for)
He'll kill me if i leave (might anyway, odds are good)
But i believe the biggest cause is that some women too readily accept responsibility for their mates feelings and emotions...and hence internalize and accept the behavior, believing it their task to "fix" him by not "making him mad".
Sad, NO ABUSE is acceptable. END OF STORY.
Pathological abusers..are effective at finding codependent enablers...and marry them
...isolating victims, creating dependence, cutting off support, controlling, usually very jealous, manipulative, guilt-inducing, all to further perpetuate this all-too-pathetic behavior.
Sadly, the kids...suffer far worse than if mom LEAVES NOW WITH THEM,
learning themselves firsthand to either abuse..or be victimized themselves. | |
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| Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 6/28/2008 2:00:16 PM | The 3-legged dance of "victim"...is always perplexing. Having some professional experience with this...its very difficult to ascertain why each individual doesn't press charges, get permanent TRO/injunction, take self-defense/concealed permit training, counseling for their own battered psyche...and leave.
Okay.. let me see if I can help you to understand "why each individual doesn't press charges, get permanent TRO/injunction, take self-defense/concealed permit training, counseling for their own battered psyche...and leave."
First of all, many individuals press charges. But those charges travel from the police officer's desk to the Crown Counsel or prosecutor's office and it is there that it is determined whether or not, they will have any kind of effect by someone who wasn't there and is likely, almost completely ignorant of what life is like for abused women and children. They are lawyers... earning excellent incomes, living in elite developments and most of them have no experience whatsoever with the elements of poverty or abuse. These are the people who are making the decisions.. NOT the victims.
get permanent TRO/injunction
Do you know that restraining orders are completely useless (except for wiping your butt with...) and that someone who has already been through the legal system on abuse charges will just laugh at them? Even worse, some abusers will consider that R.O. a red flag that challenges his "power' and that alone, will make him take another run at his victim just to "show her" that they mean nothing?
Since police have the right to arrest anyone they find committing an offence or who they can reasonably believe has committed an offence, the restraining order doesn't give them any extra rights.
Just to make this point clear... the guy I had arrested for breaching the restraining order that was to keep him away, called me from the detachment with the police officers standing right there! And from the correctional centre he was sent to...
take self-defense/concealed permit training
What good is that going to do when he lights fire to your house in the middle of the night?
counseling for their own battered psyche
Do you know that if a person is in trauma therapy but the traumas are ongoing, the therapist can't do much more than cognitive talk therapy with the victim? When a victim is still "in crisis", trauma therapies like EMDR can't even be employed.
I've heard everything from "i wouldn't do that to the kids father/mother (yes, definitely not gender exclusive)'-BUT THEY WOULD DO THIS TO HIS KIDS MOTHER???? to...
But I love him...
when He's not drinking, he's wonderful...
He's a good (provider, father, lover, man....)
Marriage is till death (it might be...sooner than ya think)
I've got no way to make a living (not worth dieing for)
He'll kill me if i leave (might anyway, odds are good)
How do you take a whole gender and UNteach them that the world teaches women to be loving, compassionate people? Particularly, when many of them are feeling so disempowered by their own lack of education, dysfunctional families and twisted role models... In many cases, you are asking young mothers with children to willfully force their children and themselves into hardship while at the same time, expecting them to be "responsible" parents.
While you are working from the logic of your "safe chair", that abused woman is sitting in front of you with HER logic smothered by her own sizable fears and it stands to reason that she is going to "rationalize" her reasons for remaining. At its root, she is scared half silly and you do no one any favors, to deride her rationalizations without dealing with whether or not, she may, in fact, have some extremely valid fears!!!
But i believe the biggest cause is that some women too readily accept responsibility for their mates feelings and emotions...and hence internalize and accept the behavior, believing it their task to "fix" him by not "making him mad".
There can be no doubt that most people, particularly women, tend to see themselves as "the hand that rocks the cradle". When they find out that they have NO control over anyone else, they suddenly realize that no matter what they say or do, they cannot control that "other person". So... knowing that they CAN and DO control themselves, they push the responsibilities and the blame over to themselves so that they CAN fix it. It makes sense when you realize how the thought processes work...
It IS their responsibility to keep themselves and their children safe... So if they try "not to make him mad", that is the responsibility they are often fulfilling... While you see it as a warp in the thought process, when a person is in "survival mode", that's what life is about... surviving.
Sad, NO ABUSE is acceptable. END OF STORY.
Pathological abusers..are effective at finding codependent enablers...and marry them
...isolating victims, creating dependence, cutting off support, controlling, usually very jealous, manipulative, guilt-inducing, all to further perpetuate this all-too-pathetic behavior.
Sadly, the kids...suffer far worse than if mom LEAVES NOW WITH THEM,
learning themselves firsthand to either abuse..or be victimized themselves.
The true resolution to this problem cannot be found by tearing down the thought processes of those who are caught by being pressed into survival mode. The answer is for our judicial system and our governments to be willing to take some responsibility for actually helping women and children get out of these messes instead of helping them to be harmed further or in some cases, killed. | |
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| Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 6/28/2008 2:56:45 PM | NICE dissection and evisceration of my post!
....when is the autopsy? Should have buried it first i guess lol
You rail at the legal and judiciary; you seem to have a few irons in the fire...but lets leave those aside for now.
my answer was more at another question posed, namely :"why she doesn't leave".
Baiting question, angel?
I hope not everyone feels less empowered by your attitude.
Victims...need support, options, choices.... NOT fatalistic and skewed pessimism.
They sure need NOT to be told there is "NO HOPE", instead need support in making decisions that help break the vicious chains of this downward spiraling maelstrom, and that (though not a perfect system) does begin empower them.
I snub not their rationale, nor judge it flawed. Paint not with such dark and broad swaths, friend.
I see no warp in logic...having sat with many victims in the ER...simply to be their sometimes only other concerned human contact (obviously after proctoring needed medical care). I neither deride personal rationalization: I CLEARLY SAID THE INDIVIDUAL reasons are unknown; these are generalizations garnered from many years in the trenches.
Your attack is particularly vitriolic: as if i were somehow an extension of your abuser?
Nor do you know me! Yet you have thus castigated me for my "smug, easy chair empty platitudes"....
And thankyou for so magnanimously "helping me understand" why the INDIVIDUAL doesnt leave...
....and i posit again....you know not what chair i sit (easychair, electric chair, or milkstool)
Have you considered....that maybe i have a personal perspective?
My friend, be not so jaded...
blessings | |
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| Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 6/28/2008 3:25:05 PM | Yes i was in a relationship where i was slapped around the head quite frequently the more i took it the worse it got i left or i was thrown out repeatedly i left went back left went back i was kicked i have had black eyes cracked ribs. He got me into debt for his selfishness but i couldnt see it at the time. But when my daughter was born it kindof helped as i had her to think of before it was just me but the bruises would fade and i so loved him it was like nothin on this earth. But after living apart (i left when she was one) and being kept from him due to social services ive grown stronger. It still hurts when i see him with someone else but i have my daughter to consider and i wouldnt want him to turn on her. Ive been on my own nearly 4 years now and he is in debt so the clock has turned he is also on his own (serves him right) ive just found out he has been sleeping with under age girls so theres another thing why im glad im not with him.
As for your question regarding going to court i had a lot of support from the police and there is also witness protection before attending court. The worse thing was ihad to relive the whole thing in court while he just sat there with asmug grin on his face.
But after being slapped in the face and kicked in the back at 7 mths pregnant his mom stood up for him and he got away with it.
So there you go but dont let that put you off. Every individual case is different and i wish you the very best of luck.
angie | |
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| Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 6/28/2008 3:27:42 PM |
NICE dissection and evisceration of my post!
....when is the autopsy? Should have buried it first i guess lol
Awww... I'm so sorry... I thought you posted in a public forum not just to give your thoughts but also to get some feedback about your own thoughts. Had I more consideration, I would have just left you to address the twisted thought processes of the victim... Unfortunately, I had not... more consideration that is...
You rail at the legal and judiciary; you seem to have a few irons in the fire...but lets leave those aside for now.
my answer was more at another question posed, namely :"why she doesn't leave".
Baiting question, angel?
Who better to question the legal processes than one who has been through them? I make no apologies for having the candor to address my own "irons in the fire" without leaving them off to the side as if they are of no merit.
I didn't ask the question, "why doesn't she just leave" and now that you mention it, you actually quite overlooked the intention behind this thread. It wasn't my intention to address the thought processes and rationalizations of the victims but rather the obstacles they have faced or may faced by the systems that are supposed to help them. So no... that wasn't a baiting question, since it wasn't the question...
I hope not everyone feels less empowered by your attitude.
Victims...need support, options, choices.... NOT fatalistic and skewed pessimism.
They sure need NOT to be told there is "NO HOPE", instead need support in making decisions that help break the vicious chains of this downward spiraling maelstrom, and that (though not a perfect system) does begin empower them.
I snub not their rationale, nor judge it flawed. Paint not with such dark and broad swaths, friend.
You know.... It's not a "bad" thing for people to face reality, even if it is found to be somewhat "disempowering". Many people in society question why the victim remains without accepting that the system itself is flawed in many, many ways... We can all run around pretending there are sufficient services in place for women and children to leave violent and disturbing situations or we can actually face that the system is not only overtaxed and insufficient... but is also NOT being controlled by the victim.
If you try to help someone who is in this situation by telling them that there are sufficient resources only to have them find out there's a waiting list for the transition house or a 30 day limit to how long they can stay there... or pretend that a restraining order is some kind of miracle safety wall when it isn't, you can actually create an illusion that a woman may very well rely on. Isn't it far better for people to start facing the reality of the situation instead of to continue to try to empower by creating false hope in someone?
I realize.. probably more than others... how desperately people NEED to believe that we have systems in place to help victims of domestic violence but whenever that system gets close to being scrutinized, someone always comes up with "thanks for shooting down everyone's hopes"... I'd rather women didn't rely on false hopes and self-castigation than that they do, and end up dead.
You are right... Victims need actual help and support... Not skewed optimism that isn't supported by fact and reality!!!
Your attack is particularly vitriolic: as if i were somehow an extension of your abuser?
Your perception of my initial response to you as being "vitriolic" is YOUR perception... I don't consider a forum response an "attack"... As a matter of fact, it was anything but... I simply responded to your "apparent" need to gloss over the intention of my thread and perpetuate the idea that the victim is the decision-maker in the matters concerning their situation. I was neither nasty nor disrespectful... But calling my response "vitriolic" and deferring it to my own implied "flawed thinking" due to my own victimization, makes me wonder how much actual help you can render to those you think are defective and acidic instead of realistic and factual. Your own ego seems to be at some risk.. and only you know why....
Nor do you know me! Yet you have thus castigated me for my "smug, easy chair empty platitudes"....
Isn't that a rather gross exaggeration of my reference to your "safe chair"???
My friend, be not so jaded...
Kindly spare me your judgment as to my character. Being "affected" is not the same as being "jaded" and in future, I am sure many of us on the forums would appreciate if you would actually address the topics being presented.
Have a nice day!  | |
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| Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 6/28/2008 9:22:40 PM | Thanx for the exhortation for a good day my canadian cohort...i have, do, and will...
(btw i sure do miss those magical kelowna apple orchard spring blossom days, Robert Frost anyone?)
Nevertheless, i will not belabor your disavowal of the closing question in your original post,
nor anything else thereafter....
......but i WILL send ya a virtual bakers dozen red roses!
The heartfelt passion you feel for this subject is palpable, kudos to you for highlighting it.
my heart goes out to all the victims of this all-too-prevalent crime,
particularly the innocent children. | |
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| Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 6/28/2008 9:45:50 PM | "Do you know that restraining orders are completely useless?"
They are not completely useless. They can't protect you, however they can be used in court, at least in the US. Violating a restraining/protecting order is considered a misdemeanor crime and you can be prosecuted for it. Even if it gets dismissed in court, it does go on your record, and background checkers such as myself can report it to future employers.
I agree that the system does suck. I see plenty of people accused of domestic abuse getting off on the charges and repeatedly committing the same crime over and over and over again with impunity. I think the system should have way more services in place to help victims who are being abused.
However, the system can only do so much. The victim has to want to get out of the situation. The victim has to decide s/he is worth more than her/his abuser tells her/him s/he is, that s/he deserves to be treated well. The victim has to decide to testify against their abuser (which many of them won't). The system can't make the victim leave and unfortunately can't completely support the victim once they do. Hell, nobody gets a free ride from the system! Even people on welfare get only a pittance that they can barely survive on. I agree that the system should do more to help these victims and owes them more than is offered, but the system should not be considered wholly responsible. | |
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| Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 6/28/2008 9:45:57 PM | It was a long time ago now, but I was in a similar situation. I had two small children and had never worked outside the home since getting married. Repeated physical assaults usually ended up with promises it wouldn't happen again, but empty promises are easier to make than to keep. Finally after 13 years, I had no other choice but to have him removed from the home and go thru years of court appearances, delays and denials. The legal system? It's a merry-go-round of lawyers, fees, judges who don't listen or understand - that goes round and round. After a while, you tire of it all and just want to get on with your life, and I did.
I am shocked that women still find themselves in this situation, but I think we all need to learn that the very first time we are physically assaulted that we make it very clear it will not be tolerated. If it happens again, leave. Go somewhere safe, ask for help, there are far more resources available now than there were 25 years ago. What really is disturbing is that so many women's shelters all across the country are usually full, and sadly, other women are turned away, and where are they supposed to go?
The police are supposedly better trained now to handle domestic violence situations, but we need to better educate young men and women at home and at school that violence is just not acceptable.  | |
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| Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 6/28/2008 9:55:41 PM |
Have you been in this circumstance?
Yep, the baaastards took him to his buddy's house ~ he was back within a span of two hours and the rest isn't pretty. Must love small towns, big drama and no protection for those who truly do need it. They offered to get me an ambulance ~ how very gracious! PFT.  I will never, as long as I live count on law enforcement to do anything for me. The legal system? It paid my bills ~ that's all. Protection Orders, No Contact Orders, bunk. I have witnessed it for over 22 years. When I was on the receiving end, I recounted the countless failures of the system in my mind re: domestic violence cases. I'm happy to report, the violence did me a huge service. New career, new outlook and a completely confirmed theory: trust your children, yourself and your instincts ~ everyone/thing else is subjective.  | |
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| Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 6/29/2008 12:02:42 AM | Angie.. thank you for contributing your experience to this topic... I am glad to hear karma is working well for him. but sorry that you had to go through such misery while you were becoming a mother. Unfortunately, it's not rare that an abuser will pull his family into court to testify but it surprises me that the obvious family ties wouldn't have actually weighed against his mother's testimony. Thank God you are now looking back and seeing what you could have ended up with. I have heard that some witness protection programs are now helping women change their identities and that's a real plus where women are in serious danger. The victim's assistance programs also have some excellent support being offered but most of it is a helping hand underneath your arm on the way into court and little more... I think women need more help than that... God bless you and your little one...
They are not completely useless. They can't protect you, however they can be used in court, at least in the US. Violating a restraining/protecting order is considered a misdemeanor crime and you can be prosecuted for it. Even if it gets dismissed in court, it does go on your record, and background checkers such as myself can report it to future employers.
I should clarify what I meant by completely useless... Restraining orders and peace bonds can be issued by the J.P.'s or the courts when someone is believed to be stalking, harassing, threatening or hurting another person... By then, an offence has been committed. No one can just walk in and ask for a restraining order because their bothersome mother-in-law keeps showing up on the doorstep. So generally, when a restraining order is issued, there is already an offence being dealt with. If the prosecutor's office decides not to proceed with charges against an offender, then yes.. a breach of that restraining order is considered contempt of court but.. here's the thing... Whatever happened to cause the breach is yet another offence. So now, you have 2 offences where someone has been victimized twice... Where the restraining order is part of a probationary or parole term, it is the breach of the probation or parole that gets dealt with in court...
The fact is that people who think they are above the law, have very little respect for restraining orders and as I said, many will see them the same way as a bull sees a red flag... Just one more way of showing a victim that they don't have to obey the laws or the rules of decent civilized behavior. In many cases, the courts actually rely on restraining orders to operate as some sort of deterrent INSTEAD OF actually deterring the offender and that is where restraining orders can become a false panacea that does nothing but create another problem.
However, the system can only do so much. The victim has to want to get out of the situation.
I think it's more than the victim having to "want to" get out of the situation. In many cases, she has to believe that she actually CAN get out of the situation without her children, her family, her career, her possessions and herself being harmed. If the transition houses are full, if she has no money and none of the agencies are offering more than a pittance, if her family or friends might be at risk for taking her in or if she in fact, has PTSD from her traumas, then all her "wanting" to get out of it, isn't going to change a thing about what is truly possible.
If "the system" can spend billions of dollars on foreign aid and seeing to it that our politicians, hockey stars and actors live in the lap of luxury, I daresay it can certainly pour more capital into being willing to incarcerate the offenders and into actually helping these women get up.
I am shocked that women still find themselves in this situation, but I think we all need to learn that the very first time we are physically assaulted that we make it very clear it will not be tolerated. If it happens again, leave. Go somewhere safe, ask for help, there are far more resources available now than there were 25 years ago. What really is disturbing is that so many women's shelters all across the country are usually full, and sadly, other women are turned away, and where are they supposed to go?
It IS shocking to find that in 2008, even WITH all of the resources they have in terms of women's shelters, there are people who can't get any help. Financial help is the hardest to come by and no one can live on social assistance in this day and age. If the abuser is so violent that he also threatens her friends and family, few women will go to them and also put them at risk.
In the past few years, here in Canada, our government has ceased funding for many of the women's groups that were focussed toward helping women become empowered and the only time anyone sees any movement in this area at all is when there's an election coming up.
It is shocking and horrific to hear of so many extremely serious situations being plea-bargained just before the trial begins and so many people being allowed out on bail, despite their lengthy criminal histories... Crown counsel here in Canada and the prosecutor's offices in the States need to start taking lengthy criminal histories into account before letting an accused stay free.
Yep, the baaastards took him to his buddy's house ~ he was back within a span of two hours and the rest isn't pretty. Must love small towns, big drama and no protection for those who truly do need it. They offered to get me an ambulance ~ how very gracious! PFT. I will never, as long as I live count on law enforcement to do anything for me.
I'm so sorry VeryGreenEyez... I know precisely how you feel because being helpful AFTER the beating just doesn't cut it does it? I also learned some major lessons about how protected I am (NOT) while I dealt with the offender... Had I listened to the suggestions I was given by law enforcement, I probably would not be sitting here typing this message right now and I mean that with all my heart. I wish I could say they'd been different but all of them, to a man, simply shrugged when I said, "Okay... which one of you is going to hang out in my house 24/7 to make sure that AFTER I testify and the judge gives him 3 months and time served (which equals, "you're free to go"), I remain safe?" All of them.. shrugged and turned away... They know... And so, unfortunately, do we...
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| Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 6/29/2008 7:28:57 AM | ^^^^^Thank you. I was in that very same boat. There is NO protection by legal means/ law enforcement (as you are clearly aware.) I made an exit plan that was twarted twice (once BY law enforcement, AUGH  ) and once by sheer coincidence. I actually relied on one friend that I knew would not betray my confidence. He was a life-saver (literally.) The up side: we're (you and me) still here !! I healed physically, mentally and emotionally ~ he'll always be a pathetic drunk/abuser. I think the best revenge is a life well lived after the fact. Good luck OP ~ so sorry you endured something similar!! | |
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| Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 6/29/2008 7:42:16 AM | Heres my story. In january of this year (after being broken up for over 3 years) my ex contacted me about getting back together and I told him to kiss my ass he then proceded to threaten to and I quote "do to me what he did to the lawyer but this time they wouldnt find the body" the lawyer thing he speaks of is, he beat the shit out of a lawyer and left him half naked in a ditch on new years. A few weeks later we saw each other around town and we exchanged afew names back and fourth which he started, after a few more names back and fourth he walked over to me and punched me in the face and then started going off about how his gf was going to come finish the job. I luckily was with my friend and she called 911 on my phone and we started walking away and he took off and was back within a few minutes with the new gf and she then tried to jump me from behind we both threw a few punches and then he realized that my friend was on the phone with the cops so they took off. The cops did the usual pictures and statements and my ex and his gf were on the run for a few weeks until I FOUND out where they were staying and left an ananamous tip with the cops. they were arrested and were in jail for less then 24 hours before both being released on bail. I will add that she was already out on bail when she attacked me and he was on probation when he attacked me. Why they were released I have no god damn clue. They both pled not guilty and the trial isnt until jan 30, 2009. So while they get to waltz around the streets free as birds im scared to leave my house. But thats the "justice" system for you. | |
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| Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 6/29/2008 7:51:52 AM | Is it possible...esp given the traditional gender bias of those LEO's (and judiciary)....
that cops sort of wink at it....like "she's just another histrionic (insert adjective) woman"?
Particularly if there is no bleeding wound, concussion, deadly weapon, or aggravated assault....is the mans word held in higher esteem and ascribed more veracity?
But....in my OTHER job (dept of corrections nurse), i find LEO's are VERY HARD on those perps who abuse...
As more women join the enforcement ranks...will we see more change? Victim advocacy, safe houses, even requisite annual training of all first responders (LEO's, Para/EMT's, Nsg) to assess for signs of this...indicates the cogs are moving progressively.
Historically, if we examine past 5000 or so years of recorded human history....suffrage is less than a century old...and equal human rights afforded the fairer sex...even younger than abolition.
The pendulum swings...slowly. But swing she does.... | |
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| Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 6/29/2008 9:46:22 AM | I made an exit plan that was twarted twice (once BY law enforcement, AUGH ) and once by sheer coincidence.
I know what you mean VGE... I planned and exited a number of times myself only to find him back in my neighborhood (mostly because I didn't exit my job as well and as long as he had that...). The plan that did work for me, wasn't even a plan. I just threw my stuff into storage and moved far away.
The up side: we're (you and me) still here !!
No doubt... that's the upside alright...  I'm still a bit worse for wear but I'm working hard to get my life back so that I can also do that "life well-lived" thingy...
they were arrested and were in jail for less then 24 hours before both being released on bail. I will add that she was already out on bail when she attacked me and he was on probation when he attacked me. Why they were released I have no god damn clue.
In my view, this is where the system fails in a BIG way and your case illustrates that better than I could describe it. If she was out on bail, then she had other charges that were pending trial. The problem in her situation is that she hasn't actually been found guilty by the court for either of her matters but she's misbehaved enough to have law enforcement in her life.. that much is plain for anyone to see. In his case, if he's already on probation, he's clearly in breach of the underlying condition of probation which is to behave himself. Assumably, this is where the prosecutor's office chose not to make the histories known to the court or to recommend that they be held without bail OR the judge is not paying attention. No one should have to walk around in fear or hide because the system isn't doing what it's mandated to do! GRRRR!
Is it possible...esp given the traditional gender bias of those LEO's (and judiciary)....
that cops sort of wink at it....like "she's just another histrionic (insert adjective) woman"?
Particularly if there is no bleeding wound, concussion, deadly weapon, or aggravated assault....is the mans word held in higher esteem and ascribed more veracity?
In my case, I dealt with several police officers over time. While there were some who were my heroes (and I will NEVER forget them), there were others who were truly ignorant. After the first attack, I had moved to far higher ground than the townhouse I'd been living in. The offender found out where I was and managed to con someone into letting him into my secured apartment building. When he refused to leave and got belligerent, a next door neighbor called the police. The arresting officers made sure he didn't hit his head on his way into the squad car but then stood in my living room yelling at me about "letting him in" and "not listening to their warnings not to let him be around" until the tears streamed down my face. It was only when I quietly said, "What part of me doesn't appear to be listening to you Officer?" that he actually went quiet.
I had another instance where the offender walked up to me in a public place and kicked me between the legs so hard that I doubled over. I phoned the police and the dispatcher wanted to take ALL of the information (which was copious by then). I watched him simply saunter off while I gave it to her. Then, 15 minutes later, the squad car that was assigned also phoned me and wanted the information BEFORE they arrived. I said, "He's long gone and you won't find him. So I'm on my own." They were playing with me because they already knew that if Crown Counsel didn't proceed by indictment, I wasn't about to testify and make a bull's eye out of myself. They never did show up...and he was never charged for that assault. That finished any kind of trust I might ever have had in them.
In smaller communities such as the one I had moved to, the police know these guys and if a woman hasn't been willing to enrage their perp. by testifying against him when she knows that Crown (or the prosecutor's office) isn't going to be serious in their charges, they drop the ball.
So yes, attitude by the police does come into play... But they, like everyone else, refuse to put the responsibility where it truly lies and that is with the Crown Counsel's office who refuse to proceed by way of indictment and instead proceed in a way that ensures the offender will only get a minimum amount of time in prison.
And one other thing... a weapon doesn't have to be a gun or a knife. In my case, it was truck keys that he was jabbing at my eyes with when he was last removed...
As more women join the enforcement ranks...will we see more change? Victim advocacy, safe houses, even requisite annual training of all first responders (LEO's, Para/EMT's, Nsg) to assess for signs of this...indicates the cogs are moving progressively.
Historically, if we examine past 5000 or so years of recorded human history....suffrage is less than a century old...and equal human rights afforded the fairer sex...even younger than abolition.
The pendulum swings...slowly. But swing she does....
I don't think there's much difference between a lady cop or a guy cop. While a cop's attitude can be hurtful and insulting, it is in the Crown Counsel office (or prosecutor's office in the States) where the decisions are made about how the charges are to be dealt with and whether or not they are going to recommend bail. In my view, this is where the changes must be made.
The pendulum is not swinging rapidly enough... Women and children are being killed... As long as that goes on, it isn't enough... and never will be. | |
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| Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 6/29/2008 10:17:03 AM |
As more women join the enforcement ranks...will we see more change?
Of the six officers that showed up for my final situation two were women. One of them drove him to his pal's. They were actually the least empathetic of the group. So, I suppose if you view my scenerio as a one-time thing, it might help. However, I don't think for one moment my situation is any different than someone else's. That would indicate ~ it's status quo with women or men as the decision makers on what happens with the offender. Here, it doesn't go before prosecutors unless the recipient signs a Complaint. My bell was so rung, I didn't even know my name, let alone how to write. So, I did as the OP did ~ waited for the opportunity and left. Never even looked back.
The pendulum is not swinging rapidly enough... Women and children are being killed... As long as that goes on, it isn't enough... and never will be.
Through my situation, I actually met two abused men. That was such an eye-opener for me personally. I saw things in a whole new light when I actually listened (not just heard) their stories. It's not prevelently reported so, you don't read/hear about the opposite gender and what they experience at the hands of female abusers, or ever same-sex abusers. It happens and is happening more often. Sigh.  | |
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| Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 6/29/2008 1:27:41 PM |
Through my situation, I actually met two abused men. That was such an eye-opener for me personally. I saw things in a whole new light when I actually listened (not just heard) their stories. It's not prevelently reported so, you don't read/hear about the opposite gender and what they experience at the hands of female abusers, or ever same-sex abusers. It happens and is happening more often. Sigh.
That's true VGE... In my work, I have had a few guys who were seriously abused by their wives in my office and felt profound sympathy for them. I had one client who had done everything he could think to do with his nutbar of a wife and finally, when their child turned 21, he grabbed his duffel bag and truck keys and left. He filed for divorce giving her absolutely everything including a $300,000 house all paid for, all of the furnishings and expensive artwork, a nice new car.. the whole shebang! All he asked was that she leave his pension alone. She sold the house to her mother for a $1 and went after his pension. On his birthday, expecting to have his son over to celebrate, he answered the door and there she was instead. She ripped his eyebrow off with her fake nails and clawed him up so bad, he was barely recognizable. It was one of the most heartrending and bizarre cases I've ever dealt with. The legal officials "appeared" to be tiptoeing around this woman but in fact, they were just trying to keep her back far enough to help him get loose...
I do think that a lot of female abusers get off scot-free because the abuse is unreported but here again, I know a lot of women who aren't reporting their abusers either... Neighbors, family and friends actually have to do the reporting in many, many cases...
I also agree that it's getting worse instead of better... The terrible pressures in the outside world are walking through the doors in people's homes and much of it is caused by an elitist, sociopathic government. Society falls from that particular tree and nothing can get better until the revenues are not the gods being worshipped. Personally, I don't think that is EVER going to happen... | |
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| Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 6/29/2008 2:54:30 PM | | In regards to Silken Fire. I dont know about her criminal past but he has being in and our of jail since he was 12 and he is 24 now, he also has a history of assaulting me (he was never charged because I always went back) Also when I went to the court house and inquired as to why he was let out they told me that crown councel wanted him kept in custody and the judge let him out anyways. | |
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| Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 6/29/2008 9:23:41 PM |
In regards to Silken Fire. I dont know about her criminal past but he has being in and our of jail since he was 12 and he is 24 now, he also has a history of assaulting me (he was never charged because I always went back) Also when I went to the court house and inquired as to why he was let out they told me that crown councel wanted him kept in custody and the judge let him out anyways.
There is no question in my mind that the system itself becomes somewhat punitive if you don't play by its rules Chaos... The men and women of jurisprudence want to believe that their work has good effect and that their legal procedures and punishments will have a deterrent effect... (Not want to believe.. NEED to believe... like most of us that what they do will be both fair and preventative...). To this point, if neither of the screwballs are bothering you, I would say that the judge likely considered that if you went back to him a number of times, he was more bothersome than frightening or dangerous.
That's the sad part of the whole deal. If we play by the rules, we can actually set ourselves up for targets of a freshly-released abuser's rage and hope that the police can get to us in time... OR... if we operate against the rules and accept more than one bout of abuse from someone, we destroy our own credibility with the courts. It's always a judgment call but for me, I learned to take my chances with the courts understanding why I looked to be "playing along" sometimes...
I would strongly recommend that you vary each and everyone of your habits and daily routines... Stay in groups or around other people as much as you possibly can. Change your phone number and cut every possible method of contact from him or to him. You must take particularly care to notice absolutely everything around you until this matter gets to trial.
Just.. be safe... | |
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kgrl08
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Joined: 2/13/2008
Msg: 21 | |
| Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 6/29/2008 9:29:13 PM | | I was victim of domestic violence,back in October,my b/f at time put a chokehold on me and said to me "how long can u go without breathing? "after I had caught him on phone with another woman,I managed to free myself and call 911,he was taken to jail and chrgd w battery,however,at time my mom was in late stages of cancer and I had to go to Indiana,when I had to postpone 3x,and then not make it to court in January,as my mother passed,the judge threw out case and prosecuters did not persue,I tried to re-open case and show them death certif,as to reason I could not be there,they would not re-open case,this man got no fines,dv course,penalties nothing,Iam angry at the court system here in Fla,I hope to obtain a personal lawyer and see about pursuing this as I feel I had legitimate reason for not bein in court at time... | |
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| Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 6/29/2008 10:16:55 PM | The police, the crown and the victims assistant person were all very pleasant and helpful. They kept me informed during the whole process and they explained what was going on, what would happen and what it all meant in the end.
Even the judge who ruled on the case was very good. The judge actually said a statement that was very insightful and he was very aware of the problem of domestic violence being a "behind closed doors occurrance". | |
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| Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 7/16/2008 1:41:29 PM | Considering over the past three and a half years .. I have stood in the way of the legal system trying to do there job. O nly after this time did I wake up and stick to my guns.
Despite this The CPS and the police have been very good.
The Barrister sat with me today and explained everything that was going to happen and if I wasn't happy about I just had to say so. The judge also requested my thoughts first.
The police officer in charge of the case was not happy when I requested to hear the verdict read out . It was allowed.. as soon as my ex saw me though he kicked off.. mouthing can I just speak with her for a minute and had to be told no by several bodies. He then proceeded to try ang get my attention. I stood firm but it was upsetting.
The sentencing will not be until 8th August and the CPS have requested an indefinite period in prison as they feel he is a danger to society.
Does this make me feel any better ? not really..but it has to be done.
The legal system has looked after me well.. The witness care ladies were excellent.. It was a nerve racking day and I have been asked to write a statement for the judge at some time.
I'm worn out! | |
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| Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 7/16/2008 3:34:42 PM | Pink Rose Lady said: "..but I think we all need to learn that the very first time we are physically assaulted that we make it very clear it will not be tolerated."
I leave at the first sign of disrespect..such as name calling.
Not picking on you Pink Rose Lady, just saying it is possible to leave sooner. You don't have to be assualted..to make the choice to leave.
 Leigh | |
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