| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 6/30/2008 6:34:40 PM | 4 mths ago to the day almost.....a 14 yr old boy was beaten and stabbed to death in Surrey, 14.
The police have arrested and charged 4 people.
3 young offenders and 1 young adult, presumably the ring leader.
What's the chance the little puke was known to police?
Yup, you guessed it, another one from our infamous justice system, out on probation for many other offences.....Shocking eh??.....NOT!!
I know we've got a few threads going on about our justice system but just wanted to know how many will comment on this case.
Have you had enough yet?? | |
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| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 6/30/2008 7:23:21 PM | yeah. had enough. But opposed to what, please explain your solution.
I'm probably with you.
I think the first step is to "kill all the lawyers, kill them tonight."
It's important to know that the victim's name is Justin Peter Vasey. May he R.I.P. | |
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| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 6/30/2008 7:47:57 PM |
yeah. had enough. But opposed to what, please explain your solution.
First the Y.C.J.A. (Youth Criminal Justice Act) needs to be revamped. It was originally designed to give youths a chance at rehabilitation after a mistake. The problem with this is that they have learned to use it to there advantage. Not to be used to circumvent the law.
Second when multiple offences are committed the sentencing should reflect this. If there are no consequences for these actions how can we expect anyone to learn let alone be rehabilitated.
With the system we have in place now it only breads contempt for the law. | |
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| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 6/30/2008 7:53:10 PM | | No...you become part of the problem if you think that killing anyone will solve the problem. I don't have the answers but I do know that any further acts of violence will not help the situation and would only make it worse. Anger is a very strong emotion and you could use that anger to work towards lobbying to strengthen the ability of the courts to protect the public. I'm very sorry for your grief and I really feel for the family of the victim and what they must be still going through. | |
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| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 6/30/2008 7:55:08 PM | I just might get my head served on a plate for this one, BUT. Don't kill all the lawyers! A lawyer may hav to come to your defence one day too. Its the lawyers job to find all the loop holes that we have in ths system (and believe me, the system is riddled with loop holes.) What we need to do (and its easier said, then done obviously) is fix the laws that are there now! I for one don't know how to go about doing this BUT, I do know that somehow, someway it has to happen. And sooner rather then later too! | |
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| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 6/30/2008 8:31:04 PM | Well, I think we should serve your head up on that plate. I believe, in my naievete, that the lawyers are perpetuating this system. Sure some will do good, but hell, most of them are profiting from repeat offenders. Why send your meal ticket to jail, when you can get another payday when it/he/she lands in front of you soon, in court?
I still say let the cops have more say.
The loophole is the escape clause of a guilty man. | |
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| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 6/30/2008 10:06:11 PM | Well,
Doing away with the death penalty was a mistake I think, not neccessarily for this instance but for some, Clifford Olsen comes to mind, for what the public pays anually for his captivity, that could and should be used for youth programs.
Murder 1 should be capital punishment, a couple guys that murdered their Indo Canadian wives recently would be good candidates vs life in prison on OUR dime.
One for sure went as far as too plea on tv for her return knowing full well he'd killed her.
This kid that committed this crime along with the others certainly had a well documented history of lawlessness....
I don't know why he was free and doing what he wanted?
Why was'nt he monitored?
My point again is very simple.......there's not enough effort made (with the exception of police) by anyone to ensure the publics safe from these chronic offenders.....
I don't get it and probably never will.......over and over, people with lenthy rap sheets continually making headlines just re offending with little or no consequence.
I feel for the victims family, way too young to be gone. | |
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| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 7/1/2008 12:08:48 AM |
Murder 1 should be capital punishment, a couple guys that murdered their Indo Canadian wives recently would be good candidates vs life in prison on OUR dime.
Well as long as you are worried about your *dime*.
Sad really, because solitary confinement until you die is a 1000X worse than a quick exit. but I know it is all about *your dime* 
I don't know you, but you appear to have a great deal of anger, and Freedom is for all, not just you and your *dime*
Big AL
Not willing to *kill em all* | |
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| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 7/1/2008 12:29:25 AM |
Sad really, because solitary confinement until you die is a 1000X worse than a quick exit. but I know it is all about *your dime*
Were the hell did you get this information?
Were in Canada are you locked up for life, until you die?
And by the way. I grew up in New Westminster. Were Clifford Olsen did a lot of prowling.
He comes up for parole every two years! | |
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| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 7/1/2008 1:23:25 AM | Were the hell did you get this information?
Were in Canada are you locked up for life, until you die?
And by the way. I grew up in New Westminster. Were Clifford Olsen did a lot of prowling. He comes up for parole every two years!
I am never anyone to give grammatical advice but...
We are in Canada, and you get locked up until you die.... Well Yes, Clifford Olsen, Paul Bernardo will never see freedom again... surprise surprise.
Any of us that were in Greater Vancouver in the early 80's were in a neighbourhood that C~O Stalked his prey, that does not make you special or unique.
Yes they are given the faint hope every two years but that is how we in society tease the f^&^ck out of them to not hang themselves with their shoelaces, they won't get out because they know like Jeffery daulmer knew ~ everybody hates them
Big Al
wa wa wa | |
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| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 7/1/2008 11:11:20 AM | Oh they are a total drain and strain on our already overtaxed budget. It is really difficult to hold one's tongue while this conversation is going on around here.
As soon as a human predator is found irrevocably guilty of their crimes (the two examples named above for instance) then it would be in our best interest to put them down, just like we do a dog or wildlife that predate on humans. If we take comfort in the knowledge that society will NEVER allow them to walk amongst us again, that is what the death penalty is for. So long as they live and breath there is the chance they might escape (instead of being let out), why risk that?
Clifford Olsen alone has cost the tax payers of this country well over 100,000.00 annually just to keep him locked up. Find out what else he has drained out of the coffers by way of education and clogging up the system with FOI (freedom of information) requests etc. There is no end to his evil nature and the sooner the scientists get to cut up his brain and analyze it the better off the rest of us are.
Both of those guys are genetic throw backs in my most humble opinion. There is something seriously wrong with them and I honestly don't care if it is due to their mother's wearing army boots or not. Anyone who takes pleasure out of taking an other's life does not deserve to live amongst us.
I don't think rocket surgery is required to determine when a case can be considered for capital punishment. Human predator/dangerous offenders, self proclaimed serial offenders are the ones who get put down. It is not something for every murder, nor if there is any question as to guilt. When you have a video of you killing someone, or you sell investigators the locations of the bodies you have dumped, well that is enough to sign you up for it.
We have bleeding hearts that will claim that is too brutal a punishment and then turn around and b!tch about some single parent who gets 8000.00 a year from the government as being a drain to society.
It is time we really started thinking about out priorities in this society. We are certainly sliding down a slippery slope and we just seem to let a few outcries overrule what common sense dictates needs to be done!!!!!! | |
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| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 7/1/2008 12:56:17 PM |
Clifford Olsen alone has cost the tax payers of this country well over 100,000.00 annually just to keep him locked up. Find out what else he has drained out of the coffers by way of education and clogging up the system with FOI (freedom of information) requests etc. There is no end to his evil nature and the sooner the scientists get to cut up his brain and analyze it the better off the rest of us are.
I couldn't agree more with you Maven. Its not like this man had made a mistake or a murder while committing another crime.
His actions were cold, calculated, and deliberate. He is a predator. He has even profited from his actions. And has used the system to his advantage.
We have bleeding hearts that will claim that is too brutal a punishment and then turn around and b!tch about some single parent who gets 8000.00 a year from the government as being a drain to society.
We have students that are out there struggling to make ends meet. And then they will have the burden of paying off students when they have graduated.
Think of just how much Olsen's education alone has cost the tax payers of this country. | |
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| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 7/1/2008 3:20:36 PM | Hey Big Al.....
Nah, no anger probs, annoyed abit though of seeing chronic offenders swiping wedding rings off old women as they lay in a hospital bed.....or the gang members blasting their way round town killing innocents.....
Nah, not angry, like I said, just annoyed.
Thanks for the two bit analysis though, too bad it's not accurate....
I wonder what a real shrink would say about criminal sympathizers.....another that hates consequences perhaps??........
By the way.....it's all our dime. | |
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| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 7/1/2008 4:53:20 PM | Don't we still have some uninhabited islands somewhere we could ship these nutbars to???
I think that the underage guys need heavy-duty psychoanalysis, therapy and some time in one of those "Boot Camp" programs they have in the States but the adult needs to face the fullest repercussions the justice system has the power to deploy.
There are adults... even much older adults.. who are deliberately using children to commit crimes because they rely on the kids being able to get off.
There was an old guy in his 50's in the Okanagan who was paying young teenagers to go steal from food stores and he kept a garage full of freezers and shelving for the stuff they'd steal and bring to him. Many people who were going through tough financial times were actually buying from him to stock their own cupboards and these were people with children of their own. When I was also offered the "deal" in a sideways hush-hush tone, I tried to find out his name but nobody would tell me... I guess they didn't want their supply system to dry up...
The system needs to be REALLY hard on adults who use kids... Age DOES matter... | |
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| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 7/1/2008 5:03:55 PM | There's no point in blaming the lawyers, or the judges, or the cops, or even the politicians.
Blame the voters.
Ooops...but that's US! Oh No!
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| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 7/1/2008 5:23:21 PM |
There's no point in blaming the lawyers, or the judges, or the cops, or even the politicians.
Blame the voters.
Ooops...but that's US! Oh No!
Good point... but every time we vote, the politicians get in...  | |
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| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 7/2/2008 12:07:48 AM |
Don't we still have some uninhabited islands somewhere we could ship these nutbars to???
Yes we do, lot's in the arctic, terrific places for the chain gangs to do good, free food too, seals and polar bears. | |
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| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 7/2/2008 1:55:35 AM | | At the very least capital punishment should be reserved for those repeat violent offenders and rapists that never god damn stop. What's the point of having a guy reoffend so much prison is like summer camp to him? | |
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| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 7/2/2008 6:44:27 AM | We are wandering a little off topic here. While I certainly agree with those who feel capitol punishment is something that should be brought back for those who find ways to torture the families of their victims with the faint hope we could be discussing what we feel is right and just in this case. I certainly feel this (barely) adult needs to be put into a prison camp with hard labour for a minimum of 20 years.
Had he only beaten the boy up he may get off with 6 months (60 days with our system)
If he would have sexually assaulted him well 15 -20 years is appropriate (yet 2 years seems right to our law system).
The other kids that helped will get off with some short stay in a Juvi correction center where they can learn from other repeat ofenders in the joint how to commit crimes more efficiently and get away with it.
I grew up with a good friend in high school who's younger brother was a terror. I chit you not all he was into stealing anything not nailed down for fun. At the age of 12 he was stealing them Toyota Mini Vans (since they were easy), off to Juvi for him many many times. His older brother told him to smarten up as we all did and we reminded him he will eventually become an adult and his record would be permanent.
He had the mentality that he could do anything he wanted till he was old enuf to have a permanent record, however he didn't stop and is currently serving time for a rash of home invasions a few years back where in one case an old man was beaten very badly.
It made the news and I can't say I was shocked to recognize the main suspect responsible as I watched him grow into this animal.
He needs to stay in jail as does this lot. | |
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| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 7/2/2008 12:04:02 PM |
Blame the voters.
HAH! When have you ever had a chance to vote for someone who says "Elect me and I'll string 'em all up." Ain't going to happen. That isn't on anyone's platform. So let's get realistic here.
The problem with the court system is that it attempts to deal in deterence. For that matter, criminal justice policies are supposed to seek the reduction of incidence of unacceptable acts. The truly incorrigible are few in number BUT the system is designed to let them all out eventually and everyone knows this. Recent research shows that once the court recognizes that there is no hope of deterence, with repeat offenders, it gives them lighter sentences... perhaps knowing they'll soon be back for more no matter what it does to them.
Regarding those who say "string 'em up", the argument always arises that killing or lifetime incarceration makes no immediate and appreciable dent in the incidence of crime. Plus it is cheaper (and more humane) to incarcerate someone for many years than to pay two his lawyers, the crown's lawyers and various judges to handle the case through appeals all the way to an execution. Would you rather have a million dollars cost for trial and multiple appeals -- or $100,000 trial and 5 years of incarceration? The latter saves the people $400,000  | |
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| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 7/2/2008 12:24:16 PM | In the case of serial killer Clifford Olson, we the tax payers have already exceeded 2 million dollars (closer to 3) keeping him incarcerated. Let's not even go to the place of the torment he continues to cause his victims.
It certainly would have been far more cost effective to have him put down. No question asked.
I really only support capital punishment (as I previously posted) for the no contest, no question, human predators. A link for a little background on Canada's most notorious serial killer is posted below.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/olson-clifford/ | |
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| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 7/2/2008 7:27:16 PM | This is just an opinion and I know that I am opening myself up to all kinds of angry responses, but even though Olson is a convicted serial killer, I think that using a term such as "put down" to refer to capital punishment is inappropriate. There is no doubt in my mind that he or any other serial killer is a very disturbed person who reduced his victims to being less than human and murdered them. I don't think that as a society, we should be using language that does this too as it adds to the problem.
Keeping a prisoner incarcerated costs lots of money. A large portion of the cost is the wages of the people who work in correctional facilities. Each of these employees, who could be unemployed otherwise, are also taxpayers. This means that the wages that are generated by keeping individuals such as Clifford Olson and Paul Bernardo incarcerated, are actually also generating tax dollars that can be used for programs that prevent the circumstances that lead the development of psychopathic personalities such as these two have. | |
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| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 7/2/2008 7:42:47 PM | I know you are NOT wanting to say this Celtic ^^^^^ ,,,,,but are you saying part of your arguement here is about keeping jobs???? I would have to call that "reaching" a bit,,,well,,,,,, a lot. And there isn't a word that can be used with Olson and Bernado that I would call "inappropriate",,,unless it was a "nice" word. The only thing bad about calling it "putting down" is that you are actually putting our pets within the same group as these two pieces of cow dung.
And I wouldn't put them down,,,,,not for a little while anyways. One appendage at a time,,,,one at a time. And the video tape of such an event would be shown to all "first time offenders",,,,just so that we can say,,,,,"YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD". Then there would be no excuses would there???? | |
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| Finally.......An arrest.
Posted: 7/2/2008 7:50:45 PM | I totally respect your opinion and believe it or not understand the argument. I used the term "put down" as that is the same term used for a mad dog, aggressive bear etc. Explain the difference between animal predators and human predators. I do find it ironic that there is a majority of the public who have an expectation that if a bear is seen anywhere near their community the government should come out immediately and destroy that animal, regardless of whether it demonstrates any aggressive behaviours. Yet we have this inability to view a human predator (admitted one no less) as a bigger menace and threat to public safety. We all know that the system as it stands today does not work nor does it do what it is intended to do, protect and/or ensure the safety of the public.
I honestly do not think that the staff of correctional facilities would be impacted by "putting down" the few "true" human predators that we house inside those facilities. I doubt one position would be lost for instance if those two well publicized offenders were no longer being supported by the system.
In all fairness to believe that there is a program that could be developed to prevent the Clifford Olsons and Paul Bernados is I believe a tad unrealistic. I take comfort or like to take comfort in the belief that there really is something genetically or physically wrong with these people, that their dysfunction is built in rather than learned.
I find it near impossible to believe that the type of psychopathic behaviours displayed by those two predators is preventable. Perhaps I have my head in the sand on that one but I truly like to believe that what causes their behaviour is far greater than any social or physical abuse or injustice.
My guess is science will learn much more when they can study them from the inside out. No matter how lacking in compassion that may sound. | |
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