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 clauclau
Joined: 10/3/2007
Msg: 1
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Am I missing something here?Page 1 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
To be blunt, I have never had any major or long term romantic relationship, any kind of sexual experience, or even a date at nearly 21. However, when most people are told this, there seems to be some kind of reasoning or pathologisation going on in their heads about me refusing to be intimate or actively putting myself OUT of situations where relationships could start.
The truth is, while I still hold a certain level of insecurity or regret that I have not had a relationship (why would I write this thread otherwise?), I have never run away from having one nor have I actively sought one (by this I mean OBVIOUSLY flirting with somebody I liked when it's pretty clear they don't feel the same way).
There seems to be a norm in society that there is a certain type of love and that there is 'something wrong' if somebody is simply not having sexual experiences. For me it has been a case of odds - I have not been attracted to 99% of people and as far as I know most people are not majorly attracted to me (not a self deprecation, but simply common sense that you don't have a relationship or sex with most people you meet in your lifetime in most cases) and that there has never been a mutual sharing of feelings - that's pretty much it.
For me there are many different types of love in friendships and relationships, which perhaps do not adhere to the conventional "model". I believe having self belief and self love is one of the hardest things to do, because it requires the person, oneself, who knows oneself entirely, to have genuine belief and respect without any outside approval, which is sought after with the majority of people, which is entirely normal.
I guess the main point of this rambling post is whether other people have different or similar views on the 'need' for relationships or sex? Sometimes I get self doubts I feel that there must be something missing in me because I have had literally NOTHING in terms of romance, but I also realise it is because I am made to feel this way, by society and by the endless perpetuation of the ideal of seeking "the one". Are long-term virgins "afraid" of love, or have problems, or is it simply bad luck? I am sure I do have my own insecurities about intimacy like any person may have, but again, does reasoning and "Freudian" analysis always have to come into it?
 sarasotagal76
Joined: 6/24/2007
Msg: 2
Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/2/2008 3:06:31 PM
I think it happens but I do not think it is normal. Most women versus guys get their sex drive after they have actual sexual experiences. It wakes up sex drive in her. You can care less about sex at 17 but if you have a full taste of it in 18 you will be on a roll.
What bothers me in your post that you think it is o.k. not to have a romantic partner and not really look for him.
YOur profile inidcate LTR. Do you really think you may know what LTR means if you never really had dating experiences.
Teenage gals start wanting dating. It is a growing process. It improves over years. They date in their own way even (and it looks akward to adults).
Grown men fantisize about intercourse and blow jobs when they masturbate. 15 years old boys with no experience masturbate on a fantazy of just a nacked girl with no any further actions.
It is a progress........ I wanna say by 21 you already have missed some major elements (and I am not talking about sex here). It has to be a natural desire by that age to meet guys, create dating opportunities and date.

Self-belive and self love are NOT obstracale to dating in any way. THose 2 things can go hand in hand.
 Paumanok
Joined: 6/15/2008
Msg: 3
Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/2/2008 3:11:17 PM
You're fine being inexperienced at your age, and likely better off for it. The timetable for love, sex, relationships, romance or whatever your preference is set according to YOU. Other people will compare the news to their experience and expectations, norms, ideals, but in personal matters their opinions cannot matter less. If you were 35 I would start pathologising. You're still a baby, albeit a grown up one. You are just starting out, not lagging behind. There are different views out there; you're not strange or alone in this. But you also prize being unique or at least independent in your views, so, there is that. You could lay down naked and get attention, for sure, but it's obvious that you are looking at a slightly more elevated approach to things, and so in ignoring that basic kind of potential you are left with the relative scarcity of a rarer kind of regard and relationship. He's out there, or she is, and you'll stroll along past the unsuitable until you bump into a good match. I'm not seeing your situation as anything odd, no need to wonder what might be wrong. Your time is slower to come than others, faster than some, and just right for you.
 Recurring_Dream
Joined: 11/6/2005
Msg: 4
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Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/2/2008 3:13:28 PM
Wow, that is so eerie. I feel pratically the same way. My dating and sexual experiences have been minimal for my age and there are times when I feel like I'm the odd-man out of society (more-so than what I am normally ). Not to mention a lot of the guys I hang out with have their "man stories" they could tell all night. I'm aware that a lot of these stories are exaggerated, but still...

I digress, you are most certainly not alone when it comes to this, even for someone as attractive as you. In my opinion, the self-doubt you feel is a mixture of the pressure of society or your peers, but you also have self-doubt because as a species that need interaction with other beings when you analyze yourself and realize your lack of intimate interaction with other people, you feel...well no offense, worthless. It doesn't mean you are, nobody is truly "worthless" especially for something as trivial as being a virgin.

To answer your second question, I say it's a combination of everything. SPeaking for myself, I know I have bad luck (terrible if you will) and while I may not be afraid of love, I'm afraid of the downfall and rejection that is associated with it.

And humans have been trying to analyze and reason human emotion for years, but the nsimple fact is there are some things that you can NEVER truly realize.
 pretty moon
Joined: 6/25/2008
Msg: 5
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Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/2/2008 3:30:45 PM
OP........It sounds like you have something many your age dont have....self worth..........your young ..you will know when the time comes.....your heart will pound, your ears will ring, your stomach will have butterflies..........when the right one comes along you wont have any questions....its just something you will know........

Stay on the path your on..being true to who you are......................
 Aurora772
Joined: 12/1/2007
Msg: 6
Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/2/2008 8:14:36 PM
This virgin simply hasn't found a wife yet. *shrugs* I don't know if it's bad luck or what, but I'm not really bothered by the lack of sex. The lack of physical affection and by that I mean, just a five-minute hug -- that's the stuff I miss. The unexpected letters in strange places; well, I won't go on or I'll bleed my romantic heart all over the page, but you get the idea.
 Thundercloud111
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 7
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Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/2/2008 8:44:01 PM
Criminey, you are 20 years old. It knocked me for a loop with you talking like you were ready for a nursing home. Like you've lived.

Yeah, most 20 year old males are only interested in 20 seconds of sex or nothing at all. Few can even grow a full beard or mustache. That's just the beginning of the list of grossly immature and irresponsible. I find nothing and never did, even back then attractive or desirable about those tadpoles. What a pack of morons and they come in threes and fives of bozo, dufus, and goofy. In a few years, after 25, and more like 30, they turn into something upright all by themselves, in his own right, and walking with two legs. He's on three legs with two heads until then. Do what with that? I haven't seen hardly any, in fact, none with males under 25 unions work out, ever.

Smart girl. Go out and have a wonderful time until you meet a fully matured man.
 Paumanok
Joined: 6/15/2008
Msg: 8
Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/2/2008 8:45:17 PM
Wow, hate much?



No fun on POF tonight...
 Thundercloud111
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 9
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Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/2/2008 9:03:56 PM
I don't hate anyone.

20 years old is far from an "old virgin" for him or her. That is very young to be in a LTR for him or her. Having sex for the sake of saying you're having sex, to impress other people, or keep up with the status quo, isn't a good idea. 20 is barely out of playing doctor and playing house.

Let's face reality. Seriously, how many 20 year old male sex symbols are there? He isn't. He is apalling and revulsive at every level to most women most of the time most of the world over. She must have been very drunk with very low self esteem. The rest are still virgins. The men we know the names of the world over are about 30s and sizzling sexy.
 hiheelsareOk
Joined: 5/3/2006
Msg: 10
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Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/3/2008 8:09:08 AM
OP-First, it’s not just bad luck. You have the necessary equipment to land any guy you want. However, I admire that you want it to be something meaningful that is right for you. Some men and women need human contact more than others. You may just be one of those that until the right guy comes along, your content with how things are. I would hope that just because your still a virgin, that you don’t run out and experiment with the first guy that comes along. Your first time should always be special, because everyone will remember their first time for the rest of their life.
 clauclau
Joined: 10/3/2007
Msg: 11
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Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/3/2008 1:59:06 PM
What's wrong with not having a romantic partner? Some people are happy without them - nothing harmful in that - however, although I don't want to NEED a relationship, that still doesn't mean I wouldn't LIKE one! But just because I want a date doesn't mean I will get, or rather, find one.

Also, it seems very difficult to 'create' opportunities - the vast majority of men I am not attracted to (or attracted to 'enough' to date) - not because they 'just want sex' (although of course there are those types) or because they may be 'immature' necessarily but because I just don't feel that way, and the majority of the time it seems mutual - which is why I wonder why some people date so often - because for me personally I could never find that many people at one time who I would WANT to date. Don't get me wrong, I don't have some kind of impossible set of 'standards' or anything like that - but if you don't feel a certain way about somebody, it's unlikely to change! (Either from my side, or from the other person's side) However, perhaps what it is, is that I am naive, and there are more opportunities beyond sites like these or going to places to 'pick up'... who knows?
Also I know...20 is young, but with certain things I have gone through (which most people never have to go through, I can assure you, but it is not appropriate for here) it feels like I am somewhat older sometimes..
 clauclau
Joined: 10/3/2007
Msg: 12
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Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/3/2008 2:02:28 PM
By the way, my first paragraph was in reply to sarasotagal76 - but it seems the quote function isn't available...
 GreySpot
Joined: 9/18/2005
Msg: 13
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Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/3/2008 4:15:29 PM
There is certainly nothing wrong with not dateing or even wanting to date at your age. Sure, there are lots of girls who are "boy crazy" at 15 but that doesn't mean the form good satisfying relationships. Some years ago we all sort of wondered about the daughter of a friend of mine. She was 27 and had never had a boyfriend and actualy seemed rather uninterested in the whole idea. Then she met this guy. Like her, he had never really been interested much in the opposite sex but wow! Suddenly they were all over each other. Couldn't keep their hands off each other. I asked her how she felt and she said, I don't know if we're in love but we are sure in strong like and most definitely in lust! They were funny to watch and married about a year later. For some people it just takes time and meeting the right one I guess.
 coughlookherecough
Joined: 1/31/2008
Msg: 14
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Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/3/2008 5:44:28 PM
This is the point in the thread where I feel that it should be pointed out that we are all different. Different tastes, different sex drives, different experiences. Some people hold out for the right one, some people knock though lovers like bowling pins in hopes that one might be the right one. Some have given up all hope of finding the right one and setteling for the right now.

I have a story. A short one, about a friend of mine from college. She was an only child and, though pretty, never had a relationship (or sex) until she was 23. At this point, she thought that she was 'in love' with that man because it was the first one who a: showed interest in her and b: she let into her pants. That ended after a month and she felt even more horrible than she did before. She was alone again AND not a virgin. She then (and still continues) went though a whole slue of guys who she would have before written off as not able to park her car, let alone be in a relationship with her. She gives them sex in hope of love and gets hurt each time. I suppose she feels like she missed out on years of practice. Personally, I think she started the game too early.

When it is right, with the right person, it will be right. Nothing is weird about it being when you are 20, or 25, or 30. I do not regret my past relationships, though, in hindsight, I think some of them would have worked out better if I had waited until I was older and more mature.

To each their own.
S.
 angelheart3
Joined: 2/3/2007
Msg: 15
Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/3/2008 5:59:23 PM
OP - sounds like even at 21 you have values and a well-grounded sense of self-worth too. You just be you and don't sweat the small stuff. All your friends are doing is trying to justify themselves by making you appear "odd". Frankly, far worse to be a crowd-follower aka sheep than actually have integrity even with yourself...don't you think?

There's nothing pathological about having standards, even at 21. There's nothing pathological about not wanting a relationship at 21. There's nothing wrong with being a virgin at 21 either.

Society's norm doesn't define you - you define yourself.
 iamnotsinfuld
Joined: 10/30/2007
Msg: 16
Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/4/2008 3:04:01 AM

I believe having self belief and self love is one of the hardest things to do, because it requires the person, oneself, who knows oneself entirely, to have genuine belief and respect without any outside approval, which is sought after with the majority of people, which is entirely normal.


People feeling and responding to social pressure might be COMMON but i would hesitate to call it normal. And just because something is common doesnt mean its okay or even healthy.

you need to get this through your head. NO ONE CARES.

i dont mean this in a mean way, but people are generally wrapped up in their own life and could care less if youre having sex. They may make a comment and some bitter people might cast a judgement, but when all is said and done, THEY DONT CARE. The only thing that matters is what YOU think. Its your life and it should be lived as you choose.

This concept was very liberating for me because I can live my life freely and ON MY OWN TERMS without worrying what someone's opinion is.

so what you need to do is look really hard and long inside yourself and decide what YOU want. Disregard what you think other people think is "normal" or what anyone else is doing for that matter and decide what kind of person you are and want to be.

if you dont want a relationship or sex, then dont ****ing have it.

if you do, then pursue it.

simple as that.
 actualizing
Joined: 5/2/2008
Msg: 17
Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/4/2008 4:09:38 AM
You are being who you are, which does not fit the norm. Welcome to the club. How many people actually fit into the "norm?" While it is more or less skewed toward the middle, there are some people on this planet who are "asexual" as well as those who have a very powerful libido. Most of the advice on this forum comes from the middle group.

I notice that the most of the opinions gathered here are steering you towards a sexual relationship with a partner. If I may use conjecture, I am reading from you that you want intimacy but not necessarily the sex. I believe there is nothing wrong with this situation. The key is finding people who just let you be who you are as you continue to explore your sexuality which also may include not "needing" sex. Issues of identity and intimacy are all tied into this exploration. You seem to be well on your way and I have to add that you are a brave woman for making this post because you are putting your face to the wind.
 clauclau
Joined: 10/3/2007
Msg: 18
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Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/9/2008 3:41:22 AM
Oh yes, I know I am probably odd or unusual, and proud of it - if anything, I see being normal as a negative, and is something I would rarely strive to be, although I'm sure I adhere subconsciously to certain socially prescribed things.
I think one problem which is partly highlighted here is that I really seem to come across as not really wanting a relationship or sex, when in fact, I'd really like to, it's just I can't get or find one...although I'd just like to think I don't need one and to focus on building my own life rather than centering it round something that may never come. People say I could quite easily date if I looked for it, but I REALLY can't, I am quite sociable and can quite easily make connections or relations with people, just not in THAT way. However, most of the time, finding dates or relationships is not something I focus on, because there is no real way of doing so save putting oneself into more social situations...
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 19
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Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/9/2008 4:11:13 AM
Ignore Sarasota's post altogether as claptrap from someone that seems to have learned little about life or from the textbooks she has read. One of the gals that was in college several years back never seemed interested in guys and she was gorgeous, vivacious and had a great social life. She was from El Salvador and actually mentioned to my mother that she thought it was horrible how American girls seemed to take sex, etc. so lightly and behaved in a way she felt was quite frankly, slutty.

She surprised me when she was engaged a year or so after she graduated, married the man, quite happily, and after a couple of years with just the two of them, they now have a couple of kids. She was focused on school, family and friends and didn't feel the need to have a man to be happy. When she found the right one, obviously this changed. Few experiences at your age with relationships or sex is not abnormal there are just a lot of young people running around doing things beyond their maturity level because they want to fit in and feel like grown-ups when they are really not behaving like adults at all.

You could maybe answer your own post by thinking about the alternative. Are you going to run out and just find someone with whom to have a relationship just so you can have sex?

Many men and women in your age bracket have not really had that many romantic relationships because in many cases they are late bloomers. In my case, I thought it was because I didn't act like stupid arm candy and my mother would tell me things like I was pretty so if I didn't have a boyfriend, it must be my personality. This was great for my self-esteem in high school. I wasn't sexually active until I was in college and not waiting longer than I did, until it was really right for me, is one of my regrets.

Your situation to me as an outsider looking in is much more healthy than many other people your age. You are comfortable enough with yourself that you do not feel the need to seek out another human being in order to define or feel good about yourself. Many people wind up settling for sex when they really want a good relationship and you are not doing that either.

The only advice I would give is that maybe what you see as guys not interested in you are guys that don't pursue you because they do not perceive that you are interested in them. Mild flirting can be fun even if it never really goes anywhere so maybe you should try to be a little more open in that way and some of these guys you don't think are interested, might be if they think you are interested in them. Looking at your reposts the one thing I would also mention is that sometimes things do grow when there is not anything in the way of butterflies initially. As you get to know them and like them you do become physically attracted so maybe just keep more of an open mind when you do meet guys.

Romantic relationships can be wonderful with the right person and it sounds like when you do get into one, it will be for the right reasons, because you have established a rapport and honestly like the person. From there, you decide if and when you want to be intimate based on the relationship and your feelings rather than any expectations that society or anyone else bestows on you.
 providename
Joined: 4/14/2008
Msg: 20
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Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/9/2008 6:22:08 AM
1: You're asking the wrong crowd. These are all people who are hoping teh internets will make a magical pony who is both sexy and loyal appear.

2: Not actively seeking is usually worse than running away. Think of it like a job. If you're not even looking for work, that is worse than constantly being fired.

3: Are you hoping we will all validate your view of not actively seeking a relationship?

Not to be an ass, but actively seeking is the norm in every human society that ever existed! You're not normal. Really. Seriously. For sure. You can't ask everyone else to validate your non-normalcy.

Obviously you think something gives, or you wouldn't be asking this on a dating site. So, what is that bother you about your situation?

And FTR, there comes a point in a every non-normal person's life where they have to confront the basic facts of their existence vs what everyone around them wants. And most of the time, if we are all being honest, the non-normal person is just being obtuse.

Finally, you're cute as a button, and I love the way you dress. Love the photo with the red shirt with the big turtleneck. Gayest thing I'll type today (hopefully) but there you have it.
 muskokaguy32
Joined: 4/3/2008
Msg: 21
Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/9/2008 1:58:16 PM
no i don't think your missing something .well its not common for people our age to have not had any relationships or experiences there is other people in the same situation . and alot would never be willing to admit it like you have . some people just have different priorities in life and relationships not top of there list . or some people just can't find what they want in a partner so they stay single . and i think in somecases bad luck plays a role as well . not everyone meets someone that is interested in them in say high school or even college and even if they do meet someone they might not be interested in dating . it can be really hard to find a relationship if your not good at it .
 mthomjmark
Joined: 2/27/2008
Msg: 22
Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/9/2008 2:39:48 PM
Reading your profile and looking at your age I think you kind of have this "if everyone goes one way I'm going the next just to be different and unique". Also some do it to be an elite person like they have the answer.

I think loving yourself is great, but taking yourself too seriously isn't. Some people are so obsessed with themselves that they become self absorbed. Especially in the U.S. where parents spoil their kids rotten and make them think the world revolves around them, society is becoming very self absorbed, selfish, and unable to deal with relationships unless its behind a computer screen.

I dont think you are wrong. I know 6 girls that are between 18-27 that are still virgins and they are not messed up at all. They either say they want to wait for their husband, or that they want to meet a guy that they are fairly sure from.

Especially in the U.S. and U.K.; with steroids, and other things in our food, and with people eating much more and much fattier foods, girls are getting physically mature much earlier in life. Mentally though they are not ready.

There is a revolution of sleaziness I think too. Girls at young age are now realizing how much attention they can get from guys if they are sexual or sleazy and if they put out. They dont think of the 25% STD rate among teens or all of the single moms. 3 somes are almost the norm with some girls and they are as bad as young guys.

I dont think your way of thinking is bad at all. You need to do whats best for you, and what you feel comfortable in doing. Having sex doesnt make you whole. Look at all the broken young people who are having sex in situations that are train wrecks.
 liquid405
Joined: 6/28/2008
Msg: 23
Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/9/2008 3:31:56 PM

1: You're asking the wrong crowd. These are all people who are hoping teh internets will make a magical pony who is both sexy and loyal appear.

I just wanted to point out, that this is wrong. Its called not limiting your options (casting your net far and wide, as my dad said).
 clauclau
Joined: 10/3/2007
Msg: 24
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Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/9/2008 3:37:02 PM
Firstly to providename, perhaps I didn't make it clear enough, but it's not as if I am totally NOT seeking a relationship, it's just I don't make such a big deal of looking for it as if it is a necessity, so I'm not really seeking validation for anything.
Also to mthomjmark, I would like to make the distinction between not deliberately trying to make oneself normal and as you put it "if everyone goes one way I'm going the next just to be different and unique". I can see how I could have come across this way, but I am far past the point of "deliberately" trying to be unique , which is a rather immature notion, and in some ways I probably am 'normal' pretty much, and like most people, try to seek rapport and common ground, but what I try to get across in general is the rejection of the notion to subscribe to 'normal' beliefs just because they are taught as such.
I guess the truth is, I would still have some self validation and feel very happy at having a great relationship, although at the same time it would be about what I could give as well as how somebody could make me feel. I think the reason why I have written this thread is to explore how to deal with the part of me that feels down at not having a relationship and develop being happy with (or without) one - which probably results in me coming across as not wanting a relationship.
 Solarpanel
Joined: 3/22/2008
Msg: 25
Am I missing something here?
Posted: 7/9/2008 3:51:15 PM
OP you are fine as you are. It is a common people-practice to regard anyone who isn't as they are as somehow abnormal.

Lifelong happily married men will tell batchelor boys how their lives are 'shallow'; batchelor boys tell happily married men what they're missing out on; sex maniacs will try to convince everyone else they should also be similar. I've got a funny stance on this - I tell people I'm a born-again celibate (I just find it more rewarding at the moment) and get no end of flak on that one.

All relationship states, including not being in one, including never had sex or having too much sex or whatever, are normal. There was a time when I used to have sex 6 times a night and I now haven't had sex for 14 years and I find there are different things to be gained for different parts of me in different relationship states.

It's all normal. Remember that when people try to dominate you with their current viewpoints of what's 'normal' it's because they're trying to normalise their own experience rather than yours - the mind loves to be 'right' because inner congruency leads to a sense of 'control'.

Don't listen to what anyone else tells you about what's right for you. The feeling you are abnormal is what's wrong. Wherever you are, you're normal and there's nothing wrong with it. Let me rephrase: don't listen to what anyone else tells you apart from me.

Oh damn - I fell into the 'right' trap. I'm feeling smug now.
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