| Making a family or what????
Posted: 7/3/2008 5:21:38 PM | I'm wondering if anyone has thoughts on this ~ I have my own, I'd like to know what others think. (Please try to be politically correct, I'd like to know opinions on this situation ~ not one's distaste for, or support of, transgenders/gays/lesbians/blended families/yogurt/cauliflower/sexual preferences/etc.) 
'Pregnant man' gives birth to daughter
Thomas Beatie reportedly had a baby girl Sunday at an Oregon hospital
Man's pregnancy claim sparks media firestorm
Thomas Beatie, the transgendered man who rose to national attention when he became pregnant, gave birth June 29 to a girl, People magazine and ABC News reported. He and his daughter are doing well, he told People.
Beatie grew up in Hawaii as a girl but later legally changed to a male identity, took hormone shots and had his breasts surgically removed, but kept his female reproductive organs.
A spokesperson from St. Charles Medical Center in Bend, Ore., where Beatie reportedly gave birth said she could "neither confirm nor deny the presence of that patient at our facility."
Beatie told People that despite published reports, the baby was not born via Caesarean section, but did not give any other information about the birth.
His wife Nancy, 46, was unable to bear children since she'd had a hysterectomy. Beatie became pregnant using donor sperm and artificial insemination.
“I opted not to do anything with my reproductive organs because I wanted to have a child one day,” he told Oprah Winfrey during an April interview. Nancy said she inseminated him with a syringe using sperm purchased from a bank.
The couple live in Bend, Ore., and Nancy has two adult children.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25519830/?GT1=43001 | |
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| Making a family or what????
Posted: 7/3/2008 5:43:51 PM | To each his own. But I think that it's a misnomer to call her a man. She doesn't have a P, and gave birth naturally through her V.
Just because she got extra breast tissue removed and is took enough hormones to grow some facial hair, doesn't mean that she is a man.
It's kind of like the "Bearded Lady" at a freak show circus having a child. Does the beard make her a man?
I do have some pity for the child to have to grow up with this kind of notoriety. The poor child will probably have the media follow this little girl for many years of her life. | |
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| Making a family or what????
Posted: 7/3/2008 6:06:29 PM |
To each his own. But I think that it's a misnomer to call her a man. She doesn't have a P, and gave birth naturally through her V.
I feel this way too. She was on Oprah and it was the biggest thing. All the commercials were claiming that it was a pregnant man... until you find out that it's really a woman with alot of hair and her breasts removed that is actually having a baby. Whoopty-do.
I hope that this child won't have to live through the media scrutiny for very long, I'm sure that it will die off and eventually no one will care about the "child born from a man" anymore. | |
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| Making a family or what????
Posted: 7/3/2008 6:11:43 PM | I tend to be with you guys on this one. My first thoughts were basically disinterest. Then I thought of the child. I'm torn between "to each their own" and "think before you act."  | |
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| Making a family or what????
Posted: 7/3/2008 6:52:12 PM | | ^^^^Those threads are old, dusty and have nothing to do with the birth or the child. Thanks for your assistance and interest in staying on topic. | |
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| Making a family or what????
Posted: 7/3/2008 7:10:00 PM | Yeah, it's a good thing that we routinely throw away things that are "old' and "dusty."
Oh well, I suppose, I still say the same thing that I did then.
I have no problem with this.
The child will be fine. Studies have proven that children have no problem and our developmentally similar in all areas (mentally, emotionally, and physically) to children of those we would consider traditional parents. There is nothing that would even suggest that a child would suffer because of this type of a situation.
I would also continue to ask this and point this out. Why is it necessary for society to have to name everything and classify everything as one thing or the other? Can't we all just be humans? Our continuous needing to classify everything and name everything leads to discrimination and oppression and completely leads us back to the principles of segregation and slavery.
For those who say this is wrong, I ask how is this wrong? How is this anymore wrong than Rosa Parks refusing to give up her seat on a bus? How is this anymore wrong than woman burning their bras for equal rights? How is this anymore wrong than Harriet Tubman running the underground railroad?
The only part that I may agree with is the media circus that is being created, but as for the rest of it, I've made my case.
Now, let's put this "old" and "dusty" topic to rest just like all the other "old" and "dusty" things. | |
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| Making a family or what????
Posted: 7/3/2008 7:23:05 PM | | I agree with the other posters that it was not a man giving birth at all. I watched Oprah and I think the birth mother [not father - fathers do not have vagina's] wants to be a man and woman at the same time .... seems like a mixed up situation to bring a child into. There are men born in a female's body and visa versa, all kind of different things going on with people, and I don't begrudge a person the chance to be a parent [ Heaven knows there are enough mixed up 'normal' families!!!] But this one, just does not seem right. Did she [yeah I'm calling 'him' what he really is] have this child so she could be in the spot light or what? | |
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| Making a family or what????
Posted: 7/3/2008 7:33:07 PM | | The dad in this case was born with both genders, it is rare but I knew a person years ago in Vancouver with the same condition. Usually parent's decide at birth to have their child made male or female, but if they chose to leave the decision to the child later in life then who are we to decide how this person should live. This person has encountered so many challenges we could never comprehend already in life yet have managed to find a path of normalcy. If they had chosen to be a female we would never even have heard they had a child. I hope all goes well for this family. | |
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| Making a family or what????
Posted: 7/3/2008 7:48:16 PM |
The dad in this case was born with both genders, it is rare but I knew a person years ago in Vancouver with the same condition. Usually parent's decide at birth to have their child made male or female, but if they chose to leave the decision to the child later in life then who are we to decide how this person should live. This person has encountered so many challenges we could never comprehend already in life yet have managed to find a path of normalcy. If they had chosen to be a female we would never even have heard they had a child. I hope all goes well for this family.
I believe the current term used to define this particular individual is: Intersexuality.
Intersexuality is the term adopted by medicine during the 20th century applied to human beings who cannot be classified as either male or female Of course, that term isn't well received and very likely may become politically incorrect in time, but it's the only term I know of to use today.
I agree with you in theory. I have no problem with this couple having a child, I have a concern that all this publicity is making it an ugly thing and therefore will promote a negative tone (possibly even a stigma) to encompass this child long after the 15 minutes of fame has ceased. Maybe it would have been wise to just live life and keep things private. It will be interesting to see how this scenerio is played out in future years. Much like Dolly the cloned sheep or the few sextuplets that have made incredible headlines, for that matter, Baby Jessica all those years ago ~ we still read about here plight in the well. Thanks for the interesting post!  | |
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| Making a family or what????
Posted: 7/3/2008 8:22:54 PM | I have not heard this...that the father was born with both genders...thats a hermaphrodite and yes it happens. From what I remember, this person chose to start to become a man but kept her reproductive organs so she could still have a child. I believe the wife could not have any more children, maybe?
Even if you are born with both set of organs [which again, I am fairly certain this person was not born this way. I remember Oprah asking about her having a penis and she did not have one], you know as you grow which sex you identify more strongly with. But again, being a parent is not gender specific, and a loving good parent is most important. | |
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| Making a family or what????
Posted: 7/3/2008 8:25:25 PM | There is nothing in this story pointing out that the individual in question was a hermaphrodite - the correct term for those having both male and female characteristics. This is a person who felt they were meant to be a man, despite having female genitalia. That to me indicates a psychological problem, not one with physiology.
As for ezees' opinion that children grow up normal no matter what the issues their parents have with sexuality, there are now numerous studies disproving that point of view. For example, children growing up with lesbian parents have been noted to have higher incidences of psychological problems and greater willingness to experiment with 'alternate' sexuality.
I have no doubt that as this practice becomes more common, we'll see that they also have a higher frequency of suicide.
Of course, what do I know, I'm just a hetero male... | |
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| Making a family or what????
Posted: 7/3/2008 8:54:28 PM |
The dad in this case was born with both genders, it is rare but I knew a person years ago in Vancouver with the same condition.
Do you have a link that supports this? I've looked everywhere and so far all stories say he was born a girl named Tracey Lagondino. From what I have heard he wasn't born a hermaphrodite, but a "regular" girl with all her girl parts. She became a transexual when he had his breasts removed and began taking male hormones. | |
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| Making a family or what????
Posted: 7/3/2008 9:47:39 PM | | It may be unusual but there is variance from the typical male and female forms, and that is just how some people are. Such people get to make their way in life and hopefully they are accepted and supported with due compassion. It seems like a good opportunity to be especially understanding and encouraging. It seems like a bad time to be judgmental or opinionated. I could get lucky, get someone pregnant and the child might be a typical boy or girl or both or neither, whole or with something missing, and it would be my hope for my child they had a good life. This is so rare that you can't go by an abundance of similar examples as the basis for some opinion counter to the wishes of the person themselves. It's interesting but at the end of the day I am not unfamiliar with the fact that people get pregnant and have babies. I am more astounded the way some people dress their kids than by the fact there is variety in the human form and psyche. | |
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| Making a family or what????
Posted: 7/3/2008 11:04:46 PM | ummm did "it' stop the hormone therapy and stay off it through out the pregnancy?
And he/she does still seem to be confused as to gender identity.
So no way to tell what effect those two things might have. And the story is up close to the grandmother in italy having a kid, except that in this case the parents are likely to still be around for grade school graduation. | |
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| Making a family or what????
Posted: 7/4/2008 9:36:19 AM | I think it's sad to see such deviation and misery paraded about .
If anyone is so messed up that they need to turn nature upside down , then , they should have our sympathy and tolerance and NOT to be a freak show exploited for political reasons.
It's no secret that there much is craziness in society , why the need to wallow in it ?
It would be much more inspiring to see healthy and happy families in the media. | |
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| Making a family or what????
Posted: 7/4/2008 10:16:02 AM |
And the story is up close to the grandmother in italy having a kid, except that in this case the parents are likely to still be around for grade school graduation.
I thought of that one as well. Mystifies me. 
NOT to be a freak show exploited for political reasons.
It's no secret that there much is craziness in society , why the need to wallow in it ?
Why on earth make it such a focal point unless the intentions are not all that sincere. When I read that he/she (whatever) did this because his 'wife' could not have children, at first I thought ~ wow, what a deal. Then I read that she had chosen to have a hysterectomy and has two adult children. He really wasn't doing her a kindness-of-his-heart thing, rather they were just like me or Jane Doe/John Doe having a baby. I don't know ~ the more I think about it, I do feel a tad irritated by the media and the two adults being discussed. JMO | |
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| Making a family or what????
Posted: 7/4/2008 1:06:51 PM | I think the media represents power , and the ruling elite likes to mess everyone up by promoting all sorts of crazy deviancy . That way people are less likely to oppose wars and trivial matters like that .
JMO . | |
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| Making a family or what????
Posted: 7/5/2008 1:53:41 PM | Sailingsouth...in response to your comment, studies of children born in gay or lesbian homes reveals they do not have more problems adjusting in life. Your information is wrong. In fact, they have fewer psychological issues than your average child, perhaps due to the self-aware and supportive atmosphere that validates whom ever a person is rather than enforcing rigid identities as defined by the outer culture. I think it is important to get this out there.
How this relates to the child born in this instance is hard to correlate as there will be such a sense of being "different", but I suspect this family has support in the transgendered community and the child will be well received and loved. I would hope that they would not discuss, too early on, how the child was born, but by the time the child is ready their support community will be there. Still, there may be some struggles as the kid hits adolescence but contrary to the sailingsouth's comment, kids born to gays and lesbians don't "experiment more" than other kids. It is the opposite: as the teens go through the individuation process and begin to separate more from their parents they are less likely to experiment but tend to immediately identify as heterosexual (can't cite the studies, but I've read many articles over the years).
Who knows what will happen as this child comes to terms with who her parents are, but I suspect that - being raised in a loving, supportive home - she will love her parents and be grateful that they had such a strong desire to have and raise her. She is luckier than a lot of kids born to heterosexual homes. | |
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| Making a family or what????
Posted: 7/5/2008 3:26:16 PM | | No vvendy, it isn't a "stunt". It is two people who fell in love, the male of which was transgendered and chose to keep his female organs in order to have a child. It is unusual, you may not understand it and it may make you uncomfortable, but it is not a "stunt". It has nothing to do with you, or me for that matter. It is a choice made between two people to have a family in the way they could. | |
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| Making a family or what????
Posted: 7/5/2008 4:05:06 PM | | I have to agree. I don't believe it's a stunt. I think it was done with a reasonable sense of love/commitment, etc., just not much forethought. That isn't going to be something overtly problematic for many years should this remain in the media's eye. Maybe it will die a painless-media-death much like the Anna Nicole saga. You don't hear much about that adorable baby now that she is in a stable, loving home. Hopefully, this will follow suit. JMO | |
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| Making a family or what????
Posted: 7/5/2008 4:58:56 PM | | It is a stunt, like cat man, he is still a man he may look like a cat and purr all he wants to but he is still a man. She is not. A hairy woman yes a man no. I understand that she wants to look like and be treated like a man. I want to look like and be treated like Jada Picket Smithand if I did that would not make me her. It would be a stunt I pulled to get some one to play make believe with me. If it was not she would not have got the media involved but had the baby quitely and no one would know. | |
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I purr
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Joined: 6/18/2008
Msg: 24 | |
| Making a family or what????
Posted: 7/5/2008 5:17:14 PM | | It was a ratings grabber. He/She still has the necesary female organs to have a child. Calling it a man having a child was purely for the Oprah ratings. She is playing the male "ROLE", with a woman by her side. It is just a "role". and who cares what they are doing it is their life. But she is still a she playing a male role for the woman and for the public. Plain and simple reality. They just wanted in the public eye and it worked. Oprah wanted more ratings and that worked. Now, the baby can be more messed up because of it. People can be cruel. My opinion, they should have done this quietly for the childs sake. | |
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| Making a family or what????
Posted: 7/5/2008 5:18:24 PM | I beg to differ, vvendy. Your comment shows no understanding of transgender issues. The "man" is not play-acting. He truly feels he is a man, and while we don't understand why this happens, gender re-assignment is done for someone who has undergone psychological counseling and who believes they are the "wrong" gender and that only by changing their physical appearance can they be who they truly are. It is a painful experience for them to live as the "wrong" gender. They never feel at home in their own bodies and they report having felt this since their earliest memories. While I don't fully understand it, I have heard enough about it to know it is a complex issue that has to do with how one views one's identity at its basic core.
It is frivolous of you to dismiss it as a stunt. You are way off base here and are invalidating and insulting the people who have struggled to get their outsides to match their mental/psychological/emotional gender identity. While I haven't personally been close to anyone who has gone through this, I have read a bit, seem documentaries and interviews and have a sense of how complex the matter is. It doesn't matter whether you accept him being a "man" as you have no say in the matter. But at least don't speak out of ignorance...find a book and read about what it means to be transgender. | |
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