| Wax figure of Hitler glorification or a period in history that must be remembered?
Posted: 7/5/2008 11:52:27 AM | To me "Lest we forget" has never rung truer then in this case.
A man tore the head off a controversial Adolf Hitler wax figure at Madame Tussaud's new wax museum in Berlin on its opening day. The man said he was protesting against the display, Kozelnik said.
The presence of the Nazi dictator's likeness in the new museum led to criticism in German media over recent weeks, but defenders of the plan argued Hitler's role in German history could not be ignored.
Last month, Berlin Mayor Klaus Wowereit urged the museum to consider carefully whether to include Hitler and, if it did, to ensure that he not be shown as a "cult figure."
The museum, which is near the German capital's Brandenburg Gate, pledged to portray Hitler without glorifying him, as he would have looked shortly before his 1945 suicide.
Full Story http://www.cbc.ca/arts/media/story/2008/07/05/hitler-head-tussauds.html | |
|
| |
| Wax figure of Hitler glorification or a period in history that must be remembered?
Posted: 7/5/2008 12:14:29 PM | The museum, which is near the German capital's Brandenburg Gate, pledged to portray Hitler without glorifying him, as he would have looked shortly before his 1945 suicide.
I'd show him at his best, it doesn't matter he is after all part of history and people will or will not glorify him. People will take from it what ever they want to, it's not something that can be controlled and we shouldn't attempt to. There are Hitler movements in Germany, UK, US and probably several other nations around the world right now so its not something that can be censored or controlled by showing his likeness when he was full of hubris or depressed facing defeat and suicide. | |
|
| Wax figure of Hitler glorification or a period in history that must be remembered?
Posted: 7/5/2008 1:07:10 PM | Hitler will always be demonized and he will always serve as a reminder to the absolute evil within mankind. And so be it. I personally don't think there is anything wrong with a wax figure of him as long as it is true to him. It should show him in true form just as a wax figure would of Stalin, Churchhill, Roosevelt, etc.
*- Edited for content -TheMadFiddler-* | |
|
| Wax figure of Hitler glorification or a period in history that must be remembered?
Posted: 7/5/2008 5:14:32 PM | Thank you Lucky me for placing my point that he was elected. Some one deleted the post.
We need to remember Hitler for the same reason we must remember Martin Luther King Jr
People who fraction the race into pieces and people who bring the race together show us who we are. Are we healers or haters are we able to be both? Every man has his battle with the dark side. Hitler lost his. people died some are living with the pain now. I work with some grew up with a teacher who had a number on her arm every story must be told good bad and ugly for the whole human race to grow.
*- Stay on topic. This thread is specifically about the incident in the OP. Some topic drift is allowed but this is not a thread to debate or discuss the history of Hitler, or the good or bad things done by his government. Offtopic posts will be deleted. -TheMadFiddler-* | |
|
NERO1
|
Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 6 | |
| Wax figure of Hitler glorification or a period in history that must be remembered?
Posted: 7/5/2008 6:29:58 PM | Personally I would say they could probably have done without an actual wax figure of him. At the same time however we could all I'm sure have done without an immature display of impotent aggression such as attacking said wax figure and de-heading it...
In any case though, a figure like this, it looks like a sort of "glorification" I suppose. I mean, probably would have been just as effective to set up a sort of exhibit perhaps which details that era in European / world history, but why set up an actual lifelike figure such as that? Just as I wouldn't be in favour of one for Lenin or Stalin, or Mao, or anyone else whose lives and political philosophies (once implemented) ultimately led to the deaths of millions and the suffering of still millions more.
This is why I was always so torn about even other types of art, such as Warhol's Mao -- a piece which I like personally but ...the man he chose for the subject...given the massive human suffering under Mao...I can't really truly "enjoy" the work, so to speak. | |
|
| |
| |
| Wax figure of Hitler glorification or a period in history that must be remembered?
Posted: 7/6/2008 4:24:10 AM | Other than most of the "historical" talking points provided so far being completely wrong, this is an interesting thread.
What's that line ? "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist". I think that that pretty much sums this up.
People who want to glorify Hitler are going to do so no matter how he's portrayed. Might as well show him at the height of his power really. It's all rather subjective anyway. Some will see a powerful warlord and others will see a megalomaniac surrounded by sycophants. Trying to hide what Hitler was and what he did is foolish. It's revisionism and it's the worst kind of history there can be because it isn't motivated by fact but rather by an agenda.
This character who "objected" to the wax figure of Hitler is , for all intents and purposes, either sick or fanatical. Well, who can't see the irony in that ? He doesn't like what he sees so he tries to destroy it . He doesn't like what Hitler stood for so rather than allowing that others might find it interesting or be curious to know what a human monster looks like , he destroys the possibility of allowing others to think freely and for their own reasons. Hmmmm....I wonder though....can the irony of all of this be any more conspicuous ? This protester would have probably made a great Nazi party member and I'm not kidding. | |
|
| |
| |
| Wax figure of Hitler glorification or a period in history that must be remembered?
Posted: 7/6/2008 5:56:43 AM |
Hitler actually did a lot of good for teh German people and for the world as a whole. You have to remember he was elected, and you also have to remember there hasn't been any other politician in history who was elected with such a strong majority.
Actually he wasn't elected, Hindenburg was in 1932, Hitler was appointed chancellor in 1933 to appease the nazis. On Hindenburg's death in 1934 Hitler abolished the office of president and appointed himself fuhrer and reich chancellor.
But back to the topic this does seem to be a pathetic sort of act but without knowing the context of where the waxwork was placed its difficult to have a say really. He could have been in the section of berlins most infamous characters or germany's best leaders, unlikely i know but it does illustrate my point. | |
|
| Wax figure of Hitler glorification or a period in history that must be remembered?
Posted: 7/6/2008 7:30:19 AM | I don't know how I feel about the argument that the statue needs to be there because "those who forget history are doomed to repeat". I think the evidence speaks pretty loudly for itself that people have not forgotten this period in history - but that doesn't stop more genocide from occurring.
However, I think it's important to have this figure presented (in a non-glorifying kind of way) because he was a major figure in German/world history. If we only represent the positive, then we are getting a skewed view of history. IMO | |
|
| Wax figure of Hitler glorification or a period in history that must be remembered?
Posted: 7/6/2008 1:25:25 PM | Well, that wax figure wasn't glorifying Hitler, it was showing him at the period where he was trapped in his bunker - not far away from the exhibit.
As such, it's a reminder of how tyrants typically end their days. 
On the other hand, there's little sympathy in Germany for Hitler and his era. I've spoken with some German teens online, on another website I'm a member of. They typically get taken on at least one day trip to a death camp. It starts out the way any typically class bus ride might. Laughter, fooling around, etc. Kids will be kids.
The ride home, again typically, is a rather sad and silent one. 
That's a historical legacy that they had nothing to do with, except through their heritage. From that we have one of the best bulkheads possible about it ever happening again.
A columnist for Der Spiegal called it a successful assassination attempt - – sadly 75 years overdue. 
This man was an ex-policeman, too.
The second visitor in the building, a 41-year-old former policeman known only as Frank L., headed straight for the darkened corner where a despairing Führer was shown hunched over his desk in his Berlin bunker.
Mr L. jumped the rope cordon, slid over the desk and grabbed Hitler in a rugby tackle. “Then he twisted his head,” said Andreas Fisch, 52, who watched the attack.
“The security men closed in to pull him apart from Hitler. When they fell to the floor, Frank L. shouted ‘never again war!’”
Prosecutors are investigating Mr. L on charges of assault – one of the security guards was slightly injured – and wilful damage to property.
The Hitler dummy cost €200,000. The body is made from fibreglass, the head from bees’ wax. Decapitation is thus relatively easy if you twist the head at the neck joints.
Mr L. was unrepentant. “I really enjoyed the fact that Willy Brandt was watching,” he said.
Brandt, a former West German chancellor was in the anti-Nazi resistance and became a hero for the Left; his dummy stands in the same room as Hitler.
Mr L. resigned from the Berlin police after being assigned to quell a May Day demonstration of leftwing anarchists (“I realised I belonged on the other side”). Since then, he has been active in the punk and squatter scene; since February he has been a care worker.
“I’m really proud of him,” said his girlfriend Yvonne, “I’ve been furious about Hitler for days.”
The approval went well beyond Mr. L’s girlfriend. The dummy has been highly controversial because the exhibition at Madame Tussauds was plainly meant to entertain rather than inform and Hitler was being used as a commercial magnet. Opponents said the dummy would become a source of pilgrimage for Neo Nazis, or at least those who could afford the €18 entrance fee.
The museum located close to the Brandenburg Gate imposed a “no touch, no kissing rule” for the Hitler dummy. Posing for photographs with him was also banned. Security guards were briefed to guard Hitler from open displays of affection.
“At last a successful attack on Hitler!” exclaimed Henryk Broder, columnist for Der Spiegel. His one quibble was the nature of Frank L’s political outburst – no more war.
“If the allies hadn’t waged war on Hitler, we might still be under the yoke of his heirs,” said Mr Broder. “He should have shouted: ‘Never Again Dictatorship!’ But that’s not a very fashionable rallying call on the Left.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4280326.ece
Ironically, the attack was perhaps more of an artistic statement than the dummy itself was.
I think it may be rather hard for a jury to convict the man of anything related to the attack in any serious way. | |
|
| |
| Wax figure of Hitler glorification or a period in history that must be remembered?
Posted: 7/6/2008 11:26:10 PM | Under the corrupt Wiemar Republic, Germany had a parliamentary system that guaranteed that almost any group could form a party and get people elected. The Nazis won about 32% of the vote in 1928, and won a coalition in 1932. The wax statue was of a democratically elected chancellor, which the German parliament would later name Fuhrer.
The statue serves as a reminder of the limitations of democracy--that a people will sometimes choose a Bush like figure to trade away liberty for some imaginary security. | |
|
| Wax figure of Hitler glorification or a period in history that must be remembered?
Posted: 7/7/2008 11:46:53 AM | I can't really blame the man for his emotional actions against the statue....even if those actions were wrong. It will be still many decades or maybe even generations (if ever) before we can even say Hitler's name without stirring rage this way, and rightfully so over what he did.
That said however, yes, reminders of him and what he did should and even NEED to exist. Like as said so many times above, if we don't remember history, we're bound to repeat it.
Perhaps the real lesson of the event of the decapitation of the statue was not about the man that did the decapitating, but rather should tell those that displayed it about how they need to go about what they are doing.......If you're going to display a emotional powder keg, keep it inaccessible by more than just a string. And keep it appropriately placed........near the Brandenburg Tor and so close to the Reichstag might not be the best location, depending... Germany needs to be allowed to get on with its government without that ugly anchor hanging around its neck too closely now too. They (and all of us) definitely need to learn from the past, but not be trapped by it either...Being trapped by something like without relief could easily also stir other future mistakes. | |
|
| Wax figure of Hitler glorification or a period in history that must be remembered?
Posted: 7/7/2008 1:15:44 PM | A friend of mine had visited Germany a few years back, and told me that it was illegal to have any image of Hitler in the country! I would imagine this would include a wax representation. No coins, stamps, posters, nothing. Perhaps true, perhaps not.
Anyhow's...it was a wax figure...the guy is long dead, and left the world a lesson it won't soon forget. The boogeyman is gone people. those even trying to follow in those footsteps is quashed long before they can surmount any type of world war. Many do not like this idea, and feel that those who do the quashing are bullies...but I figure, pre-emptive strikes are a necessity in this day and age. | |
|
| |
| |
| |
| |
| Wax figure of Hitler glorification or a period in history that must be remembered?
Posted: 7/7/2008 7:02:26 PM | | Sometimes history is not pretty and we must acknowledge the good with the bad. A few years ago in the National Air and Space Museum in Washington,D.C....the Atomic Bomb B-29 bomber Enola Gay was on display. Many Japanese protested vehemently wanting it removed,and there was a great controversy in the media. The plane was on display in the USA...not Tokyo ! Many 80 plus year old men protested in the opposite direction !!! We can't undo the past. History is not always pretty. Places that educated younsters like Dachau serve as a grim reminder of this. The Hitler dummy should not have been destroyed. To do this is one step closer to making his and the Nazi party's existence,however unpleasant, disappear from history as well in the minds of those born well after 1945. The vets that can tell the story of what evil deeds Hitler did are dying everyday....lest we forget. | |
|
| Wax figure of Hitler glorification or a period in history that must be remembered?
Posted: 7/7/2008 7:24:59 PM | Remember that we are a couple generations removed from WW II and the nazi regime. It would be one thing if the wax figure was presented as a glorification of hitler but it isn't. Maybe if we keep the lessons from that time alive we might have less of a chance of repeating them.
Not many people would disagree that mankind has a really bad track record for repeating history . | |
|
| Wax figure of Hitler glorification or a period in history that must be remembered?
Posted: 7/9/2008 11:43:52 AM | Addressing more the "a period in history that must be remembered" side of the Thread Title, and
Not many people would disagree that mankind has a really bad track record for repeating history .
and while NOT trying to defend the actions of a crazy man!!!!!! The flip side of all of this though is that if we stop remembering our history regarding those times only at the threshold of when Hitler was an adult and came to power, and don't look at earlier times before those that existed in Germany and Austria in the towns he grew up and was exposed to when he was a child..................we could be contributing to allowance of history to repeat again in this or similar ways. We tend to only think that Hitler was lashing out at a religious group that he didn't like or was predjudice against without ever looking at how his ruthless and unchecked prejudice ever came to be that way in the first place. The roots of the prejudice were not initially directly found in religion, but rather in social class economics and exclusion. To him, it wasn't a 'religious' battle, but rather a battle against an exclusive economic sector populous group that had control of wealth and power at the cost of the other people outside of thier circle who were being excluded and prevented from ever obtaining economic success themselves. Convoluted and out of control as it was (to say the least and that doesn't seem to even start scratching the surface of it), it was to him a battle for the "have nots" who had been excluded from the circle to ever have chances at becoming prosperous "haves". Similar situations persist today and make perfect platforms to support other instances with inhumane results. | |
|
Home
login 
