| Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/12/2008 1:04:20 PM | I would definately like to see the United States start drilling our own oil so we can be dependant from other countries. IMO i'm sick and tired of all this go green talk and how we should use alternative ways of getting by. Sorry but we just ain't there yet, but if you want to buy a electric car go right ahead chevy will have one in a couple of years that cost 35,000 dollars. I don't have that kind of money, we be much better off as a nation to start drilling offshore. McCain is all for it Obama is against it so I guess McCain got my vote.
So how do others feel about this most important issues of the 21st century? | |
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| Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/12/2008 9:36:08 PM | To me this is an argument between people who are short sighted and think lets go with what we know whether it works or not and people who have vision and have faith in the ingenuity of the American people and spirit.
I for one think neither solution of drilling offshore nor looking for alternative forms of energy are short term solutions. I personally think if we have leadership and focus that was generated even with the push to the moon back in the 60's, we could have sustainable alternative forms of energy quicker than just going "old school" and try to drill for a known commodity in Oil.
For me it doesn't make sense. I don't believe the government can do it like Obama thinks as they can't even get out of their own way but I do think leadership from a strong president challenging the American people to do it in X years, it can and I believe will happen.
It could have happened many years ago but the powers that be, including the crook oil men in office now, and the many corporate money folks block it from happening. If everyone plays their part and comes together as Americans we can do it.
But if we want to "go with what we know" and take a safe but possibly losing route, go ahead drill. But I believe we are better than that.
I just wish there was a candidate out there who had the b@lls to challenge us like this. Just then, maybe we can once again come together as one America again.
Ok, rant off! | |
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| Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/12/2008 9:39:07 PM | OP seems to have the delusion that domestic oil would be cheaper than imported oil.
Dream on.
West Texas oil is at $144/barrel, that's why the imported stuff is so expensive.
My reply in another thread (IMHO this one is redundant and should be deleted):
1.) OPEC doesn't set the price of a barrel of crude, Wall Street does.
2.) Global oil prices are based on the price of "West Texas Intermediate." The last time I checked, Texas was still part of the US.
3.) The US imports more oil from Canada than from OPEC.
4.) More US domestic production won't influence the price of gas at the pump. The same global industry that controls imported oil also owns the domestic US leases.
5.) More drilling, anywhere, won't lower pump prices for years, if at all, and the oil industry isn't drilling those leases in the US precisely because they know that. Imported oil is still cheaper than US domestic oil.
6.) There is no quick, easy, painless fix for the price of oil. It's a finite resource, we've used up all the easily obtained stuff, demand will continue to increase and production will decrease and oil prices will rise, unless we develop some of the alternatives.
We could become a lot more energy independent if we focused on developing wind, solar, wave and tidal sources, and yes, nuclear plants. Most of these will require massive Federal subsidies, but it's probably money better spent than bailing out financial institutions that are failing because of their own stupidity and greed. | |
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| Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 5:49:44 AM | The 68 million acres you refer to ARE UNPROVEN .. No one knows what is under the land it could be salt for all any one knows , And to invest billions to find out is folly ,, Yet to invest in recovering a trillion barrels of known reserves is smart.
we spend 700 billion on imports ...Give the green light to drill and recover a trillion barrels from our own shores would make oil drop like a stone .. If Norway discovered a trillion barrels it would drop , same holds true for any discovery that large ,,Now imagine you not only have these reserves but you actually seek to recover them.. Our Trillion barrels are worthless to the market price BECAUSE EVERYONE KNOWS WE ARE NOT TAPPING INTO IT...
This factless argument recovering our own reserves has no impact amazes me , and it should make any one with half a wit think twice .. If America decided to recover its own reserves and pull 700 Billion from world oil sales nations would go under , Cananda would suffer badly as would any nation who exports to us , and to say china would just by more is false because 700billion of American currency is no longer available to buy imports from china .
Drilling NOW is a solution , creating alternatives must also take place , but imagine every auto owner MUST BUY A NEW car to conform to this new technology ? Thats crazy even if wind could power our cars how the heck do we suddenly all go get a new car ? The issue is complex , the solution is drill , develop and transition .. It must all work as one . | |
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| Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 8:26:44 AM | We could manufacture 'facts' that say the Canadian Gvt. is a state supporter of terror and use that as an excuse to invade and cause a regime change.
It would be cheaper and less hassle than needing to send our aircraft carriers to the middle east. Heck, people can fly to Cuba from Canada so they have no respect of our trying to starve the Cubans into submission.
On the other hand, we could put electric trolley systems back into service. Remember them, the oil barons successfully had them removed to have us become dependent on them.
We could offer companies incentives to turn their workforces into jobs we can do from home. Why get in your car drive to a building where you sit in front of a computer all day and then drive home again. Employees can get up in the morning and walk to their computers, log on and be at work till they log off. Not only does it save on the cost of fuel for the employees, it reduces the demand for oil in the cars and buildings they work in.
This technology is here today. I have servers on my desk at home that are configured for remote access and provide remote telecom services to people that connect them together as if they are in the same building. It is much less expensive than one would expect as big companies usually like the graft associated with expensive systems and want complete control over their employees to feel secure.
Insurance companies will loose their income from premiums on auto insurance as drivers will only need their cars to get groceries to get to the grocery stores and almost everything else they need can be delivered via UPS and insurance companies won't be able to charge for work place accidents AND accidents in the home because it's the same place.
There's a lot we can do without worrying about off shore drilling or alternative energy but those insurance and oil lobbyists won't want that to happen because they will lose money. | |
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| Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:29:33 AM | I posted this on the other thread so I may as well put it here ...
Greedy Capitalist saved the Whale and Greedy Capitalist will kill Big Oil, and OPEC
Extinct .... like the whaler.... A few Arab Princes and CEO's sailing around looking for a White Drilling Rig no one wants... you can't even make dog food out of it.... build a coffin...Whale Blubber was replaced with cheaper alternatives...
"Oil End Game" Amory Lovins its free download 10 min TED link....
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/amory_lovins_on_winning_the_oil_endgame.html
1% efficiency for major Transportation??? The money is there.
Shall we allow the Indian and Chinese to leap frog technologies and build for us.... or are we competitive...
Both of these countries are not allowing cars to suck them dry...and are very serious about Alternates...
Maybe fill up with a windmill...Compressed Air Cars...MDI France.... http://www.gizmag.com/compressed-air-car-set-for-us-launch-in-2010/8896/
By the time Big Oil gets to the reserve they are crying for they will be selling Blubber and building the Selectric Typewriter in a Ink jet world....
The Drilling rigs are on order three years out..... Deep Sea rigs leased three years out to Brazil and Mexico.. Two year waiting list for new ones... DRILLING is happening now ....A huge increase ....
We are the OPEC of OIL Consumption...the demand can be cut faster than the production can increase. It was done in 78-84.
INVEST in XT 286 chips they are coming back? No thanks.... | |
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| Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 10:46:49 AM | Get Both.
$5/gal fuel is bleeding us, and we don't have a (viable) alternative. Electric vehicles still require energy. Hydrogen power cells work, though they cost dollars per mile vs. cents per mile.
Developing alternatives will take a long time. Drilling now will take a long time, though not as long.
So.... Drill & pump more now while we develop better alternatives. Why is this difficult to understand? | |
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| Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 11:05:25 AM | | Ultimately, we need to get off of our crude diet. However, you don't turn a battleship on a dime either. Short term interim solution: We need to drill. Long term solution: Encourage alternative energy methods. (btw: do a search on "Tesla Electric Cars" - very exciting!). And, as MSJA suggests, corn is another great solution also among many other solutions! | |
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| Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 11:15:46 AM | | Thanx for the agreement, o4 but in Brazil's case, it's sugar cane based. A more energy efficient, high powered fuel. We been fed a line of bs by ADM for corn ethanol. They've been in the back pockets of DC for decades, dating as far back as the Carter Administration when Brazil tried to import the sugar cane ethanol. The ADM lobby was responsible for a 54cent price tag on every barrel imported to this country. | |
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| Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 11:40:43 AM |
. A more energy efficient, high powered fuel. We been fed a line of bs by ADM for corn ethanol. They've been in the back pockets of DC for decades, dating as far back as the Carter Administration when Brazil tried to import the sugar cane ethanol. The ADM lobby was responsible for a 54cent price tag on every barrel imported to this country.
Electrical cars isn't the solutions we would just consume too much electricity. I read there's a car that runs on water, now that will be a true solution. It doesn't have to be very clean water it can be rain water. | |
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| Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 12:09:28 PM |
we spend 700 billion on imports ...Give the green light to drill and recover a trillion barrels from our own shores would make oil drop like a stone .. If Norway discovered a trillion barrels it would drop , same holds true for any discovery that large ,,Now imagine you not only have these reserves but you actually seek to recover them.. Our Trillion barrels are worthless to the market price BECAUSE EVERYONE KNOWS WE ARE NOT TAPPING INTO IT...
The US has 21 BILLION barrels of "proven" reserves. Bakken, ANWR, and offshore fields may double that, eventually.
The total "proven" global reserves is just over a trillion barrels, but the OPEC numbers are suspect- their reserve numbers don't diminish at the same rate as production, which may mean their reserves are overstated by 50% or more.
Even if all the untapped reserves in the US were developed overnight, it would amount to less than six years of total US consumption.
The only viable long-term solution is to develop alternative energy sources (including nuclear, wind, solar, tidal and wave, finding methods for extracting petroleum from oil shale, and liquifying coal) and use less oil.
More drilling is inevitable, but it's a diminishing resource, and not a long-term solution; and it's only going to get more expensive.
By comparison, Saudi Arabia has about 230 billion barrels of oil in reserve.
More oil is imported onto the US from Canada than any other source, their proven reserves are second to the Saudis'. | |
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| Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 12:32:37 PM | Interesting fact, Beaugrande. Canada leads in imports to the US yet we, as the general public, are led to believe it's the Saudis who control the market.
I'm interested in reading your take on trading in Euros for oil. The main argument I've encountered on other forums has been the reason we invaded Iraq was to stop Hussein from entering the Euro market.
No one ever mentioned our major source was Canada. | |
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jedi4
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Joined: 4/3/2008
Msg: 17 | |
| Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 1:54:13 PM |
Canada leads in imports to the US yet we, as the general public, are led to believe it's the Saudis who control the market
General public just does not care till SHTF
Unites states is the World's 3 largest producer of oil..
Canada is the biggest exporter of OIL to the US, and number 2 last year goes to Mexico.. yes Mexico, Source: Energy Information Administration
Wall Street Securities companies make billions in oil trading.. hiring for commodity traders is at all time high..
Drilling is not an over night process, it will take a long time.. if the dollar gains against the euro and other currencies, that might effect the GAS prices, though if McCain comes in and keeps up with Bush polices, get used to these prices at the pump.. | |
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| Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 1:56:50 PM |
Canada leads in imports to the US yet we, as the general public, are led to believe it's the Saudis who control the market.
Check out http://www.eia.doe.gov/
The general public in the US likes to be spoon-fed diluted versions of events, and prefers not to hear things that might interrupt our hedonistic and wasteful way of life, but the information is readily available to those who are willing to look for it.
Keep in mind that network news is "dumbed down" to about the 6th grade level of understanding (in contrast to political posturing, which seems to be aimed at mindless, ignorant morons). Anything that can't be condensed into a ten-second "sound bite" is considered "too cerebral" for us poor dumb taxpayers. Rather than debating serious matters of consequence, the candidates are debating fluff and posturing for idiots.
The main argument I've encountered on other forums has been the reason we invaded Iraq was to stop Hussein from entering the Euro market.
Most significant about trading in Euros is that it's a slap in the face of US international prestige. From a completely practical perspective, it really wouldn't matter so much. The reason it's traded in dollars has been the dollar's reliable stability, but Dubya's lack of attention to the economy has seriously destabilized it.
Bush, the Elder, Dubya's Daddy, defanged and declawed Saddam in Gulf War 1, but Saddam hid in denial and eventually began to believe his own fairy tales of omnipotence; isolated from reality by a corps of frightened (and rightfully so) "yes" men, the aptly-nicknamed "Butcher of Bagdhad" (a crude, ignorant thug who had murdered his way into the Presidency) hoodwinked the West into believing he still had huge stockpiles of deadly weapons (really, what competent, rational military commander would have wasted the entire arsenal on a group like the Kurds?) (oh that's right, we're talking about Saddam-). So Saddam, the poor dimwit, pulled one over on Dubya (who is not to be confused with a rocket scientist himself) and managed to systematically do everything humanly possible to make matters worse for himself.
History may well call this the "War of the Not-So-Bright." | |
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| Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 2:55:43 PM | Since I'm new to the site I can't figure out how to address your points so excuse me if I cut and paste.
"Keep in mind that network news is "dumbed down" to about the 6th grade level of understanding (in contrast to political posturing, which seems to be aimed at mindless, ignorant morons). Anything that can't be condensed into a ten-second "sound bite" is considered "too cerebral" for us poor dumb taxpayers. Rather than debating serious matters of consequence, the candidates are debating fluff and posturing for idiots."
I so totally agree. It's a sad state when we have to dumb down the obvious.
"Most significant about trading in Euros is that it's a slap in the face of US international prestige. From a completely practical perspective, it really wouldn't matter so much. The reason it's traded in dollars has been the dollar's reliable stability, but Dubya's lack of attention to the economy has seriously destabilized it."
I disagree. Trading in Euros was the catalyst for the war with Iraq. We were going to be outsiders.
"Bush, the Elder, Dubya's Daddy, defanged and declawed Saddam in Gulf War 1, but Saddam hid in denial and eventually began to believe his own fairy tales of omnipotence; isolated from reality by a corps of frightened (and rightfully so) "yes" men, the aptly-nicknamed "Butcher of Bagdhad" (a crude, ignorant thug who had murdered his way into the Presidency) hoodwinked the West into believing he still had huge stockpiles of deadly weapons (really, what competent, rational military commander would have wasted the entire arsenal on a group like the Kurds?) (oh that's right, we're talking about Saddam-). So Saddam, the poor dimwit, pulled one over on Dubya (who is not to be confused with a rocket scientist himself) and managed to systematically do everything humanly possible to make matters worse for himself."
I can't believe you're buying in this. This is totally bs. We were fed Hussein was the bad guy. | |
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| Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 4:13:47 PM | two false choices.....
but anyway... of course long term solutions are going to be the best for the most people and its not only short sighted people who see offshore drilling as a solution but it is also a selfish person who believes such.....
there will have to be total readjustments of lifestyles.... no matter what...... get used to the idea start putting it into action while you still have a relative amount of resources to do it..... | |
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jedi4
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Joined: 4/3/2008
Msg: 21 | |
| Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 6:51:23 PM |
The main argument I've encountered on other forums has been the reason we invaded Iraq was to stop Hussein from entering the Euro market.
IMO.. Europe would not have ignored UN sanctions against IRAQ..
European countries will not alienate themselves from the US. | |
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| Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 7:04:59 PM | To quote, type [ quote ]first, type in or copy and paste, then type [ /quote ] at the end (no spaces).
I disagree. Trading in Euros was the catalyst for the war with Iraq. We were going to be outsiders.
Respectfully, I'd prefer trading in Euros to Yen or Yuan.
We were fed Hussein was the bad guy
He was a very bad guy, a murderous, ruthless thug, and needed to be taken down; the problem was, and is, the region needs a "strongman" to maintain order, as we've discovered.
The war planners naively assumed the Iraquis would warmly receive us as liberators and embrace all the goodness of a US-style democratic society.
We now have US forces occupying a country embroiled in a civil war, attracting terrorist nutcases and extremist religious wannabes from all over the region.
Not good.
And, oh yeah, some of the less-than-friendly regimes in the area are hoping the situation blows up in our faces.
Democracy won't work in a region that has no history of participatory government, and no grassroots movement for political change.
Unfortunately, there are dozens of self-appointed messiahs willing to convert the masses to their will and their beliefs, at the point of a gun if necessary. Whatever puppet government we install is going to need to be propped up for a long time to come.
Unfortunately, bailing out now would be the worst possible thing to do. I'd have to vote to leave this up to the Generals to run the war and get the politicians (all of them) out of it.
Back on topic- find and download the 332 page book (it's a free .pdf file) titled "Winning the Oil Endgame." | |
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| Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 7:16:01 PM | | Beaugrand, I'd prefer to look at the bright side. Iraq has had enough of killing, they are feeling secure enough to ask us to leave, news out of Israel says they are close to a deal, voting will continue in Iraq, Sunnis and Shiites coexisted fine before we invaded and they can do it again......... it was long and expensive and deadly, but I see light at the end of the tunnel and our troops out of there. | |
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jedi4
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Joined: 4/3/2008
Msg: 25 | |
| Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 7:42:04 PM |
Iraq has had enough of killing, they are feeling secure enough to ask us to leave
US and leave Iraq...
I doubt.. but anything is possible
Iraq holds more than 112 billion barrels of oil - the world's second largest proven reserves.
Iraq has a huge oil potential that still needs to be developed, and once opened for exploration, it could again be one of the world's most attractive oil domains for investors.. | |
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