| Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 7/13/2008 5:57:46 AM | Do you consider a mother who threatens to not allow the father to see the children if he doesn't give her X amount of money a chid abuser?
My mother never did it. My father had every opportunity to be in our life, she never asked him for a DIME. She obviously values what a strong figure can do a for a kid more than money. (Even though we were poor.)
Now I have my BA, took the LSAT, (Failed miserably but i was hung over, passing it soon.) and am going to law school soon. I think she did pretty ok.
For some reason women have a habit of using child support payments to scare some men into being their pawns. My uncle stayed with his AWFUL, AWFUL wife because she threatened him with that for a long time. He had no formal understanding of family law, as many didn't in that days. So he stayed....and he strayed.
He stayed in that miserable relationship with that wicked wicked woman.
He stayed because he didn't wanna drag his daughter through the drama that would ensue. I commend him for that.
Children are NOT weapons to beat each other over the head with. There is NO reason a cihld shouldn't be allowed to see his parent, save abuse. And if there is no abuse, and you are refraining, then you are the abuser. Not liking your EX is hardly a reason. Move on with your life.
And furthermore, child support is ONLY appointed when the parent with partial custody isn't providing for the child, or if their is not structure theirin. If during proceedings, the parent REQUEST child support from another, the judge asks "WHY?!? Is She/he not providing?"
A good example of this is Rapper 50 cent. His wife herd about the 18% law, and attempted to take him to court for the 18% that the state statute sets. What she didn't realize, was this only applies to those who are making 80,000 or less. Which is the maximum awards through the court system.
He was ALREADY GIVING HER 500,000 a year. She got greedy and brought the courts into it. The judge then awarded her her 80,000 a years. He no longer has to pay more than that because that was the maximum ANYONE has to pay in that state.
So I ask again.
Do you consider a mother who threatens to not allow the father to see the children if he doesn't give her X amount of money a chid abuser?
My main question is this: I don't mind a person with kids, but every girl I have ever met here with kids blames her ex for EVERYTHING......So, if you were hanging out with a girl who was holding back child visitation (Which is illegal.) because she wanted money, and you viewed it as abusive, would you call her on it.
I recently told a girl the truth about what she was doing....and that she needed to grow up. She cried. I am a bad bad man.
**walks away | |
|
| Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 7/13/2008 6:18:10 AM | Well, seeing I'm a single mum, and my ex has failed to pay child support for numerous reasons-I've NEVER not allowed him to see our children. However, each persons' circumstance is different. I don't think it would be fair if a woman disallowed her estranged spouse to see their children, but some parents aren't always fit to see their kids-so it would have to be on a case by case scenario. Thing is-it isn't just DAD's who find themselves in that situation-it happens to some Mother's too.
Op-if you keep finding the same kind of women, perhaps maybe you present as the 'rescuer' and she feels that maybe ( and this is just a huge maybe) all her whining will loosen up your wallet and help her out RAISING her kids-just a thought ...lol. | |
|
| Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 7/13/2008 6:26:12 AM | Do you consider a mother who threatens to not allow the father to see the children if he doesn't give her X amount of money a chid abuser?
I believe a parent who refuses access to a child because of support payments...
...isnt any more an abuser than the non-paying parent who's lack of financial contribution abuses a child's quality of life which also effects them emotionally
I will not choose sides on this...both acts are equally as destructive to a child's welfare as the other.
And no playing of the emotion card would make me change my stance because frankly...a parent who DOESNT pay should have their rights to access withdrawn legally IMO.
Incidentally Ive never denied access to my ex husband or ever had to chase him for a child support payment
OH one more thing....
So, if you were hanging out with a girl who was holding back child visitation (Which is illegal.) because she wanted money, and you viewed it as abusive, would you call her on it.
I recently told a girl the truth about what she was doing....and that she needed to grow up. She cried. I am a bad bad man.
Did you hunt down the ex and make him cry because HE was abusing his child?
Just curious.
| |
|
| Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 7/13/2008 6:44:59 AM | Do I think withholding money and not supporting a child you brought into the world is a form of abuse? Yes.
Most women that try to prevent visitation are honestly at the end of their ropes. They cannot afford to feed the kids at times, provide proper medical care and heat their homes because DAD won't pay. My Ex has full access to his kids and has not paid support in months. His children do without because he can't get his act together. Do I wish I could withhold visitation in order to get through his thick head what he's doing? Of course, but common sense and love for my kids will not allow me to do it. Keeping them away from their father (they have no idea about him not paying me) is punishing them even further. But for him to put me in a position to deny them treats or going to birthday parties or buying school clothes is so wrong. I get to be the heavy and he still gets visitation? Something wrong there.
As for Mr 50 cent and other overpaid Hollywood types he spends more on a car than he does his child, does that seem fair to you? | |
|
| Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 7/13/2008 6:56:20 AM | This is a tricky subject in general. Most people want to give their children what they can afford to give them. Though sometimes the money doesn't go towards the child.
I think that people should support their children, but I certainly don't think that children should be used to extort additional funds on top of what you're supposed to pay.
I don't know that I would call keeping a child away from one parent child abuse, but it generally does violate the terms of custody. Stuff like that only works for so long, though. Even if the other person doesn't realize that they can take it to court, the child will grow up and be able to assess the situation for themselves. | |
|
| Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 7/13/2008 7:04:10 AM | Now from a mans point of view and this is how I see it ok.........I pay my ex child support every week and it was what she would take without courts involved. I also have medical & dental on them as well and got it as soon as I was home from Iraq and with a good job. But now that the times are kinda hard all I get is grieve and when I can't pay I dont see my kids and this is on the weekend. And you figure she would be glad to have free weekends and to screw my weekend up (I LOVE MY WEEKENDS WITH MY KIDS) but she dont think that way I guess. So now do you think I am being treat fairly at all in this matter........ and lets us not forget the fact that MOST NOT ALL will degrade the father / mother in the kids eyes. I can go on and on but my thing is this I can prove that I do good by my kids with witness and from my kids themselves but leave it to their mother am a worthless piece of crap. Thank you for you time and patience in reading my post take care and God Bless
 | |
|
| Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 7/13/2008 7:04:15 AM | I am so very impressed by your class, Carolann. I am fortunate enough to have an ex who has ALWAYS paid and on time (okay, maybe late twice in 12 years). But I do understand that woman's pain and the desperate things women do to get what they need to support their children. Withholding visitation is desperate and, as an educator who has dealt with this situation, not the correct way to go. I would suggest to any boyfriend who is dealing with a woman in this situation (providing you love her and care about her and the children that you are now involved with) that you support her emotionally in any way you can. If she is not receiving the support she needs to provide for these children (I am not talking wants, but needs) then suggesting she seek legal council (didn't original poster say he was going to law school?) to help her the money that is owed to these children.
NOW, that being said...I disagree STRONGLY with these judges who award OUTRAGEOUS and ridiculous amounts of money to women who want to get their kids shipped off to boarding school every summer and need money to help put gas into their 16 year olds BMW's (I am not begrudging the wealthy...I promise) but let's be realistic.
Lastly, let me add that my last boyfriend, whom I dated for two years, had three children that he struggled to support because of his own doing. His ex would call me and threaten me and my job with false accusations in hope that I could prod him into paying her. It was a scary and frightening time for me and a horrible situation to be in. I understood how desperate she must be, but it angered me that I was being put into the middle of their situation. Those children deserved to be supported by their father.
I hope that all you men who choose to involve yourselves in a relationship with a woman who has children realize how truly special a relationship it can be. Yes, it can be fraught with a little bit of drama now and again..it is not always within their control. Just understand that being a single parent is a VERY difficult job and appreciate her for her hard work and value the fact that she trusts and loves you enough to have you in her children's lives. | |
|
| Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 7/13/2008 7:05:19 AM | Just a comment to what I said in my previous post...
...a parent who DOESNT pay should have their rights to access withdrawn legally IMO
Since you brought up your own personal situation OP...
...do you think...that if the law said...your father couldnt have had access to you unless he paid what he was supposed to....he would have started paying so that he could?
This is only a guess here...but Id say not.
And Id say likely not in most other cases too.
So actually...if I reallllllly wanted to choose sides as to who the abuser was...ie. the custodial refusing access or the non-paying parent...Ive decided which side that would be. | |
|
| Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 7/13/2008 7:19:39 AM | | Personally I would see a man who walks away from his children and won't ensure they have the wherewithall to have a decent life is the child abuser. You say your mother never had a dime from your father. You must have been a recipient of the depriviaton but your mother must have hidden as much as she could from you. Now you think you have the right to treat your women the same way. Is if it is some duty of theirs to bring your children up to endure a substandard life due to economic depriviation. Sounds like you should grow up and accept your parental responsibilities just as your mother and your ex-wife are doing. | |
|
| Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 7/13/2008 7:24:08 AM |
Do you consider a mother who threatens to not allow the father to see the children if he doesn't give her X amount of money a chid abuser?
No.
In fact, I think your post unfairly villainizes single mothers while making their ex-husbands out to be the victims. I would say when there is a victim in divorce situations (other than the child), it is usually not the man.
For EVERY woman who gets your "80 grand" a year in child support, there are likely 50+ on welfare who can't find their exes and likely would get nothing out of them anyway, being that it's unlikely that most of these men make salaries comparable to 50 Cent. (Hint: I took the LSAT too. If you want to pass next time, don't back up your arguments with rap stars. They don't like that.)
If the woman is making ends meet, sure, asking for more money is greedy, but to call it child abuse is trivializing real child abuse.
And no, I would not call someone I was seeing out on their custody/child support problems. It's not my business, it's rude, and the only person in the wrong in this situation is you. | |
|
| Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 7/13/2008 7:29:01 AM | I assumed this would a track a string of angry, bitter people who were going through the same thing. Which is why I think i'll delete it.
WITHHOLDING VISITIATION IS A PERSONAL CHOICE AND ABUSE. THERE ARE TOO MANY OTHER METHODS LIKE I DUNNO THE LEGAL SYSTEM!
If he isn't financially supporting the child, then he is a piece of crap, a piece of crap you let knock you up. so he OBVIOUSLY wasnt that bad. So, you can TAKE HIM TO COURT LIKE EVERY OTHER NORMAL HUMAN BEING WOULD.
Withholding visitation is a childish attempt to control someone you no longer have power over, and if you do it you should have the child, because you are obviously not concerned about their well being.....
But besides that, my question is WOULD YOU DATE a girl going through those issues...and of course the single, bitter mothers all jump head first in... | |
|
| |
| Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 7/13/2008 8:28:37 AM | Back in 1977, my husband and father of my two daughters left us literally with the clothes on our back on the street, locked out of our own apartment. Yeah yeah...I was young and stupid and I didn't "fight" him. It's hard to fight when you have no money, no home, no food, and you have a three year old and one and a half year old in your arms because she has no boots on her feet and it's in the middle of winter.
Was that abuse? Nah. That was the norm back then. There were NO laws in "the good ol' days" forcing anyone to care, feed, clothe, their children.
And I find it funny when i read on here that all that happened a long ago and that none of us here "lived" it. Lived it I did. And so did my daughters. Anyway...I digress.
I simply see the scenario you describe in your opening post as pathetic. Period.
Do I think anyone who doesn't willingly and lovingly support their children is abusive and pathetic? Yes.
Did I ever even ONCE deny/discourage/hinder visitation to the father of my children?? No.
Did I console my oldest daughter specially many times while she would sit on the front steps sucking her thumb patiently waiting for her father to show up knowing full well he wouldn't show up? Yes.
Did I ever put their father down? No.
Did I make numerous excuses, tell countless lies to explain why their father lived in a nice house, drove a nice car, had a 4 wheeler, a skidoo, a boat, a truck, a camper, AND two "new" daughters while we lived in a tiny one bedroom apartment on welfare while I struggled to go back to school and my parents had to help us put food on the table and clothes on our backs? Yes.
I repeat...did I ever put their father down? NO.
I tried my best to explain things from my heart. With compassion. And forgiveness. What many people seem to forget is that kids GROW up and there comes a time when they see through the lies. And what many people call parent alienation IMO is simply a kid being old enough that he/she can't be lied to anymore.
My oldest daughter "grew up" the day she learned at school how to operate a public phone in case of an emergency. I had told her many times that her dad didn't call her to cancel his visit with her perhaps because he didn't have access to a phone ...or maybe he didn't have the "right" change? But she learned that you could call the operator free "in case of an emergency" and that there were public phones practically everywhere. It became harder and harder for me to lie. Until one day, I didn't have to lie anymore.
Personally OP, I think that anyone who uses their children as a weapon is pathetic. I think anyone who abandons their children is pathetic. I think anyone who begrudges "child support" is pathetic. I think anyone who has to be told or forced to pay child support is pathetic. I think anyone who say they were "trapped" into motherhood or fatherhood is pathetic. No exceptions. Unless you're mentally incompetent or were raped.
In my family, I have a sister who willingly and lovingly paid an enormous amount of child support to her ex husband when her oldest son decided to live with his dad and she wanted to make sure he had the same advantages as her daughter who remained with her. That happened many years ago when it was almost unheard of. She also didn't need to be dragged in court to do right by her child.
Me, I didn't and still don't blame my ex for anything. Nor am I bitter or angry. I'm a very forgiving person and so are my kids. Specially my oldest daughter. She has a heart of gold and has long ago "forgiven" her dad for his misgivings. She understands that people are not perfect and they make mistakes and that he had his own "demons" to battle with.
Sigh. What an emotionally charged topic. Anyway...those are just some of my thoughts and opinions. To each their own.
JMHO | |
|
| Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 7/13/2008 8:39:33 AM | You can't deny visitation rights because the other parent isn't paying their child support where I live. I took my ex to court over 4 years ago. He was ordered to pay a very minimal fee $200/month for our 3 children and has not once lived up to his responsibility. Now there is supposed to be alternative ways to get the money through the "system" like garnishing wages, garnishing his income tax return and GST cheques, taking his driver's licence away and if all else fails then jail but he has avoided this by changing jobs frequently, not filing his taxes the last 4 years, not having a licence at all and living in a city where arresting deadbeats isn't high on the priority list for the Police Services.
Right now, he is not hurting for money at all and still makes no effort to pay. Actually likes to rub it in my face he makes more money than me and is buying all kinds of frivolous things for himself. I can't do anything about it andI have not once denied access because of support payments.
I can completely understand why some parents would want to deny visitation access. It's an extremely frustrating situation. While I don't think denying access is necessarily the right answer I do believe that if the non paying parent is living a comfortable life while the full time parent lives in poverty then it can be just as damaging to send the child over there to see that the non paying parent would rather buy nice things for themselves rather than take care of the child. It may not be as apparent to small children but as children get older they pick up on a lot more than some realize.
Unfortunately the people who always lose out are the children. | |
|
| Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 7/13/2008 8:51:56 AM |
and of course the single, bitter mothers all jump head first in...
I'm actually a non-bitter, married mother. But thanks for assuming.
If he isn't financially supporting the child, then he is a piece of crap, a piece of crap you let knock you up. so he OBVIOUSLY wasnt that bad. So, you can TAKE HIM TO COURT LIKE EVERY OTHER NORMAL HUMAN BEING WOULD.
Um, this doesn't quite make sense, but let me try to interpret it. Because the woman let the man "knock her up", he can't be a "piece of crap"? I don't understand your logic. Apparently, neither did the people grading the LSAT.
Instead of spewing vitriolic rants about single moms, why don't you just not date them and save yourself and others the hassle? You have to be a fairly compassionate person to date someone who has a sensitive situation of parenting alone, and I don't think that person is you. | |
|
| |
| Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:10:05 AM | You need to understand something OP...
I am a single mother and if my ex did not give the child support that is required to me BY LAW...you can bet your sweet ass I would not let him see our son!
WHAT kind of father doesnt want to help raise their son?....A DEAD BEAT DAD thats who...so why on Earth would I want a man like that in his life anyway?
Just FYI though?
My ex and I have a LOVELY co-parenting relationship. We are very kind to eachother and just for the record? he DOES pay child support BECAUSE he is an EXCELLENT Father and knows it is his duty to do so. We also have a court order showing what our visitation should be BUT I let him have our son MUCH more than that because I think it should be that way.
More more thing OP????
How is it that you think its "abuse" for a woman to hold a child from seeing Dad without money BUT you dont think its abuse for a man to hold back money for his CHILD????? Uuuuhhh very much a double standard here OP....
Sounds like you need to grow up too?.....just my thoughts... | |
|
| |
| Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:25:40 AM | hmmm. maybe you should never date woman who alreaedy have children, as far as the judge doing" He was ALREADY GIVING HER 500,000 a year. She got greedy and brought the courts into it. The judge then awarded her her 80,000 a years. He no longer has to pay more than that because that was the maximum ANYONE has to pay in that state."
all the judge did was hurt the child. the woman now has to beg, proberbly have sex with the x just to get enough money for the kid. you seem the kind of man that does not mind children living in poverty, and child support rarely ever allows the mother to completely take care of the child and its realty , like she did when there was two incomes coming into the house.
now as far as bashing mothers.. no , one you should not date mothers, two. stay the hell out of someone else's life. | |
|
| Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:33:10 AM | A father not making his child support payments is neglect in my eyes. What are his reasons for not making payments? It depends on the circumstances, each is different. If he's not making payment because he's out of work for the time being or on some kind of compensation due to an injury, that would not be something in his control. If he's not making payments just because he simply doesn't want to, that's neglect!!!!
Is this abuse on the mothers behalf? Yes ,she's using her child as a pawn to get what she wants!!
Children are the ones who suffer and get hurt the most in these situations...it's so heartbreaking! | |
|
| Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:37:54 AM | It's low, but no, she's not a child abuser. It would be mean as hell for her to keep the child away from the father if the child WANTS to see him, but depending on how the father treated the child, that may not be the case. Some guys want to visit the children for the principle of it - not because they actually want to see the child.
If he's not making payment because he's out of work for the time being or on some kind of compensation due to an injury, that would not be something in his control.
They force child support on you regardless if you are working (or even ABLE to work) or not. They judge the amount on what the government feels you are capable of making. If you have a degree to be a doctor, but for some bizarre reason you find yourself working in a factory instead, your child support amount will be based on the income you would get as a doctor. | |
|
| |
| Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:55:17 AM | Bitter angry Mom. No. I'm far too busy for that. Pissed off at the man I put through college and grad school turning into a complete spendthrift? Absolutely.
Go to court? Yes. What makes you think OP that I don't already have a court order in place. I do. He ignores it, and changes jobs every time the state catches up to him. I can no longer afford the legal fees to track him down every 6 months.
Would putting the father of my kids in jail help my children or hurt them? I would rather turn the heat down, live on rice and beans and hand-me down clothes before I'd do that. Dignity, hard work and respect, those are the lessons I hope to teach my children not pettiness and anger. Being angry will not pay the bills. They will learn eventually the kind of man their Dad chose to become. How they relate to him as adults is their choosing. Until then they will see their Dad as the child custody agreement dictates. I don't break the law.
Don't get pissed because we may be slightly off topic here. So to answer your question would I date someone that harbors so much anger against her Ex being a loser that she withholds visitation? NO. Not because she withholds visitation but because she is probably a bitter angry young woman no matter what. And obviously tells her tale of woe to anyone (including her kids) that will listen and maybe lend her a few bucks. | |
|
| Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 7/13/2008 10:04:01 AM | In most US states it is against the law to withhold visitation to the non custodial parent due to lack of paying child support. These are two separate issues and are dealt with in two different courts.
I stopped talking to a guy who informed me that he kept calling child support enforcement to inquire if his children's mother's driver's license was suspended. I'm thinking..."Why would he do that"? I did not want to date someone so bitter. If someone will perform these actions aimed at the opposite parent with these cases, does anyone truly believe they will not perform worse atrocities to someone who is NOT the opposite parent of their child/children? If you do not believe they will, you are in serious denial.
I personally believe that a parent who denies the other parent visitation referencing this matter is most definitely an abuser. A mental abuser. They are denying the children the right to see the opposite parent while utilizing the children as a tool. People who perform this are NOT good parents and goes to prove that just because someone has their children full time or residentally does not always constitute them as good parents, I have witnessed the worst parents ever as the ones who actually had or do have custody of their children. | |
|
| Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 7/13/2008 10:08:38 AM | Hi OP
I wouldn't date a single parent who was deliberately playing mind games with her ex - that kind of thing is too raw and troublesome for a new relationship to grow in.
I know a guy who bought his house well before meeting his wife - they met and she moved in - they had a young child and she went a bit loopy and disappeared to another part of the country - he paid her a lot of money towards the child when she 'appeared' and then he went for months where he heard nothing - and then he got a message saying if he wanted to see his daughter ever again he had to hand over his house lock stock and barrel (she already had another home).
In my own case I paid child support and much more than that for over a decade but ended up being on the receiving end of what I've heard described now as 'parental alienation syndrome'. My ex was never concerned about the money - in fact it's a bit strange in that financially she was better off due to state benefits with my not being there. A bit galling given I used to work a 70 hour week and sometimes held down 3 jobs.
There are some very cruel methods a parent with custody can use against a parent without (eg I was cut out of my kids christmases and birthdays) and I do think there should be an ongoing checking mechanism whereby all parties involved get to work it out with a professional involved - but that'd mean solicitors making even more cash out of us, I suppose. | |
|
Home
login 
