| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 7:21:40 AM | Salient facts....
...The United States has the highest incarceration rate in the world at 737 persons imprisoned per 100,000.
...A report released Feb. 28, 2008 indicates that in the United States more than 1 in 100 adults is now confined in an American jail or prison.
...According to the U.S. Department of Justice, as of June 30, 2007, American prisons and jails held 2,299,116 inmates.
...The United States spends an estimated $60 billion each year on corrections. It costs an average of $88 dollars a day per prisoner.
...The United States has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's incarcerated population
You would have to be naive not to admit this story doesn't start and end with drugs.
 | |
|
| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 7:27:49 AM | | How about some Canadian stats on the numbers of people in Canadian jails and the amount that is spent on keeping them there due to drugs? Also of your stats, how many of those people in American jails are there exclusively because of drug crimes? | |
|
| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 7:40:53 AM | Celticlass...if the U.S. didn't have this decade old drug trade problem, Canada nor any other country would'nt have one either.
...I think its pretty obvious that the vast majority of U.S. crime begins and ends with drugs...think tobacco...why is it legal?...tobacco is a drug and it is the single biggest killer going.
| |
|
| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 7:44:02 AM | OP
One would have to be naive to consider seriously what you've presented.
Firstly your question asks about "all drugs". It would be unwise to categorize all illicit drugs together. Marijuana is surely in a different class from hard drugs like cocaine, heroin and others of that ilk.
Secondly, last time I checked British Columbia was in Canada, not in the United States. This is the BC forum after all. You present a variety of statistics for the United States. You failed to make any connection to how that might apply to Canada.
Come to think of it I believe there are other threads on this topic.
OR | |
|
| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 7:54:25 AM | This is a tough one Max.
There are many types of drugs. Are you referring to all drugs in general?
Is my opinion the only reason that pot is dangerous is the fact that it is illegal and criminal organizations are benefiting from the fact that it is. In this regulation I think is the key.
But if you are also talking about some of the heaver drugs. Such as coke, crack, heroin, meth. That I believe is a different story.
These are highly addictive. Perhaps decriminalization and regulation could work. But there are many aspects that have to be addressed. Support systems, health care, and treatment for people who wish to stop. Just to name a few.
With meth labs and grow opps. showing up in all corners of the city that pose serious health and safety risks I have to agree that something has to be done. But I'm not sure that decriminalization of all drugs is the answer.
How about some Canadian stats on the numbers of people in Canadian jails and the amount that is spent on keeping them there due to drugs? Also of your stats, how many of those people in American jails are there exclusively because of drug crimes?
I would also like to see some Canadian stats. | |
|
| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 8:16:06 AM | | Unfortunately BC Guy, marijuana is not a harmless drug as I've come to see now. I used to think as you do that it should be legalized but my thoughts on this have changed dramatically. If you were to spend some time working with youth who frequently need to be admitted to mental health facilities, you would find that many of them have developed psychotic symptoms or other mental health symptoms after they had been smoking marijuana for several months. The marijuana that is being used by youth today is believed to cause these episodes of psychoses and often the end result is that they develop lifelong mental illnesses such as Schizophrenia or Bi-Polar Disorder due to the way that the THC in the marijuana continues to interact with the neurotransmitters in their brains. The THC content is much higher than it used to be in most of the marijuana that is available today. One might argue that other drugs like Crystal Meth or Crack Cocaine are responsible for these increases in psychosis, and these also cause changes in the brain that result in the development of psychoses, but many of the youth that I am thinking of have been exclusive marijuana users. | |
|
| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 8:24:51 AM | Well, since Canadian and US law are way different it's difficult to relate to the OP. Soooo .. the Topic "Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?" < NOT Likely!!!
Speaking as a Canadian and about our criminal (in)justice system, I do think it is way overdue to decriminalize marijuana, in fact I think it ought be given about as much benefits are "similar" (Not the same) as marijuana, still they are both Harmless weeds. consideration as the herbs I gather along the trail here in PEI. St.Johnswort grows wild, it has medicinal properties and by definition could be considered a drug. The The Only harm that may be perceived from pot is a fine, jail time or some other legal recourse.
Coffee (caffeine) is a drug (oh yes it is!) it is a stimulant and for some the source of many major health issues .. perhaps it should be criminal to drink more than 3 large cups a day! lol
We (both countries) have a pack of needless laws that only suffice to fill up the systems time so that REAL crime doesn't get the attention it needs. As far as the jails being filled with druggies? lmao - I'm curious about how many potheads are on house arrest here in PEI!! seriously, it seems to be the latest method of 'punishment', which I think is ok IF the crime is serious.
There are some very serious drugs that need to be fought against and fought hard against. The "war on drugs" is wasted on pot. Right now, where I live; the Worst drugs on the street are Prescription Pills (Major problem) and Crystal Meth. The difference is the law goes after those who deal in meth, not too many doctors get busted for prescribing unnecessarily! We had one quack here who used to deliver to dealers!!! Unreal, he finally got his license removed, not because he was a dealer, because he fondled some of his patients.
All drugs should not be criminalized nor should all drugs be decriminalized. There is a distinction - ie: compare coffee to heroin.
Interesting how the drugs that our government collects taxes on are ok, regardless of the harm they cause or the costs to healthcare they incur ...
Cigarettes tsk tsk tsk
Booze tsk tsk tsk
Prescription Narcotics TSK TSK TSK!
Have you ever been in a car with someone who's just taken their "bipolar" meds? Now there's a carnival ride! Not saying their meds ought be criminalized (although deep down I question their effectiveness), but I do think it should be criminal to drive on a lot of the crap our doctors hand out.
ok .. sorry bout the rant.. just found my papers - Gotta Run!!! lol ;)
HEY! it's for my mullen.. another wild herb .. sssshhhhh or they'll be patroling my trail too!
 | |
|
| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 8:30:25 AM |
Unfortunately BC Guy, marijuana is not a harmless drug as I've come to see now.
Hi Celtic;
I cant argue with you on this. Today, marijuana is much more potent then a decade ago. And I would never call any drug harmless.
I just believe that it shouldn't be classified in the same category as these other drugs. That is why I think regulation and education could help in this area. | |
|
| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 8:33:01 AM | ^^ thank you for that post CC..... that is so right on
plus in our younger days not only was the pot different it was a weekend thing
I see all the young teens now doing it daily and often 24/7....sadly its gotta affect them
negatively
I too , was for legalization, now I am on the fence, I see so many youths becoming "nothing", no desires, no dreams, no ambition , just smoking pot..the ones I see doing it with frequency are enabled by their parents and encouraged to do so at home ...so sad... even though I was for legalization , I would NEVER and NEVER let
my teens know that or do it in my presence or allow others to do it in their presence.
I scolded them when I heard it happened with them or thier friends .
They are now drug & tobacco free and both studying to become Doctors.
My friends that allowed their teens to smoke pot , still have thier teens in thier 20's now , sitting in their basements smoking pot.... coincidence or ?
this is a good thread, will stimulate lots of interesting comments
((oops I got inbetweened by two more posters !..wow its gonna be a hot topic ) | |
|
| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:00:11 AM | I want to look at this from a different angle.
Humour me people, and feel free to point out my misgivings or nativity on the subject.
I think the problem doesn't lie in the drugs, but more so in the fractured family environments that are all too common these days.
When does a child decide to try an illegal substance, what path leads them there?? When does that child succumb to negative peer pressure and decide to try something they know is illegal and possibly harmful to their state of conscientiousness.
I think they turn to drugs because they lack self confidence. I think they toke, snort, cook, whatever it is, when they want to be accepted or avoid some harsh (to their minds at least) reality.
Do they lack this confidence because they have no one helping them at home to understand and learn better ways to cope with life’s stresses? Are they seeking to avoid a bitter reality that their parents are fighting for their custody? Do they see mom or dad reach for a beer/joint... whatever to alleviate their own stresses? Do they have to come home to an empty house each afternoon and entertain themselves with mixed media messages about how Paris/Lindsay and whatever Olsen twin has OD'd or re-rehabbed.... whatever? Are they being bombarded with "everything is quick and easy/disposable/ instantly gratifying messages??
Are the drugs easier to get? Can they find them in their own home???
Our society has to start accepting some responsibility for the messages we send our children. NO IT IS NOT EASY, and Hard work plays into everything, including dare I say it... Our relationships.
We all want it NOW, and we want it cheap and easy and if we don't get it, we can find it really fast. (Just look at the website you are in currently)
I may be a little old fashioned, but I think the root of our problems is in the home. The microscope needs to be aimed at our families and the family model of late.
Anyway, just a small amount of my thoughts on this. Time to take my kids out to play. | |
|
| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:03:38 AM | | I wonder how long this tread will last. This is sounds like a political, US-bashing post in a BC forum. My guess? Not long. | |
|
| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:32:47 AM | | I agree that a US bashing thread in a BC forum would be a waste of time. Read a little further though as it is more about drugs in general and whether or not drugs such as marijuana should be legalized, due to the effects on our youth, than it is about the borders that the drug use takes place in. | |
|
| |
| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 10:00:42 AM | Guido
While you raise some good points with respect to children and families there are lots of adults, including middle-aged and beyond, who are using drugs. While some of them may still be facing those issues the young face such as peer pressure and coping with stress, it is reasonable to assume some have over the years acquired the skills to better handle those issues. Yet they still like to include drugs in their lives.
There are many that state in the POF profiles statements such as "420 friendly" (a term I had to google to learn what it means).
So while as you state the problem may in the home for some people, I believe that is not the case for all.
OR | |
|
| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 10:01:05 AM | Well it is blatantly obvious that criminalization of these substances is highly effective, hence the creation of this thread.
If all it took was criminalizing the use and trafficking of these materials to deter people, then there wouldnt be a problem, would there?
Truth is, illegal or not, people are going to get and use the drugs they choose, so we really have to come up with other ideas to heal our societal problems.
Just playing devils advocate here, (and this is not necessarily representative of what I believe to be a solution) but consider this:
All drugs are decriminalized and produced/manufactured and distributed by (yup, you guessed it) a government agency. Yes, this would generate copious amounts of tax revenue. Of course, revenue dollars could be spent on (guessed it again) treatment and prevention (education) programs.
Utopian? Of course it is. There is some validity to the argument though if you filter the concept through.
We really have to start early on in education teaching people how to cope with life. There is a whole lot more to this idea as well as this problem.
The one thing I think everyone can agree on is that the system as it is structured today does not work, hence the constant increase in the problem.
Time for some serious retrofitting and brand new ideas to offer brand new solutions to what is soon becoming and age old problem. | |
|
| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 10:47:00 AM | many great points made here, celtic, blue, guido, mb, alien...
OP, we need not get into the US statistics or legal system to seek support for the debate, the monetary implications a speak for themselves as do the medical facts of dealing with the various aftereffects of drug use.
If we take a look at the tiny socialist country Holland where drugs are legalized we can see that there are few benefits to legalization. It only means revenues are state administered as are the medical facilities, so you won't see the down and out in the streets. There are still illegal drug pushers and gangs pushing heavy drugs, cameras in streets and police in pursuit of the illegal activities....
Celtic mentioned various medical conditions. Lets just look at a legal drug, alcohol. We are all well aware of the effects of alcohol on the fetus and this country has thousands of children first second third generation..., who were born with disabilities caused by alcohol.
We have not as of yet much data showing proof of similar conditions caused by marijuana. However, there is evidence that many of the chemical substances remain in the users body and cause changes in the human DNA.
To legalize drug use in my opinion would mean we as a society are not interested to maintain or improve what evolution has created, or perhaps we decide it is time to regress??? On humanitarian grounds alone the drug issue is one that needs to be eliminated if anything. I say this knowing full well the addictions to and pleasures of caffeine, nicotine and alcohol and I can understand those who may oppose my views because they enjoy (ore are addicted to) weed.
To anyone with a heart and conscience for themselves and their fellow man a serious restructuring of drug enforcement to eradicate all drug problems on all levels would be a better solution than legalizing the substances. | |
|
| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 10:58:19 AM | Well, personally I'd be in favour of legalizing pot. As well as preferably regulating and taxing it like we do with liquor and cigarettes (think of the revenue that could be generated for the province!). With the other, harder drugs, I'm not so sure. However, I do think that we have seen that criminalization doesn't really work that well. As others have said, if people want to do it, they will get it regardless.
I think drugs should be treated more as a social/health problem, less as a criminal one. Throwing someone in prison for doing drugs doesn't really *help* them with their underlying issues, it just puts them in a really bad environment, which if anything will make them worse. We should be freeing up police resources to deal with more serious issues. On the other hand, I wouldn't have a problem continuing to bust drug dealers that deal crack and the like, but just busting people for using it? Come on.
Just my 2 cents. | |
|
| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 11:49:50 AM | | Just curious AGM83, what do you know about the health risks of marijuana use? You are in favor of legalizing marijuana use so I am just wondering about your general knowledge about the physical effects of this drug on the body as you are likely quite representative of people in your age group. | |
|
| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 12:02:55 PM |
Just curious AGM83, what do you know about the health risks of marijuana use? You are in favor of legalizing marijuana use so I am just wondering about your general knowledge about the physical effects of this drug on the body as you are likely quite representative of people in your age group.
Honestly I don't know a whole lot about it, having never done it (despite many opportunities). From what little I do know of it it doesn't seem too bad, unless you do a whole lot of it. But then any kind of drug can be harmful in large doses. If you're just smoking it in moderation it's probably fine, to my understanding. | |
|
| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 12:11:37 PM | | Thanks. Interesting that it doesn't seem to be common knowledge yet among your age group yet that marijuana messes with the chemicals in the brain and can cause some serious problems. There is some really good research out there now to back up the beliefs that mental health professionals have had about it for many years. If you google marijuana and either psychosis or schizophrenia, you can find a lot of good information. | |
|
| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 12:11:55 PM | ^^^^ theres these "crackheads " that live down the rd from me , and they do ALOT of drugs, meth mostly ..... well i guess they got bored , and decided to break into my house yesterday and steel my sons new cameria and an i-pod .... will i be going to the cops , and hoping they get punished ?......, HELL YA !!!!!!
ONCE A CRACKER ....ALWAYS A CRACKER ....SHOOT EM ALL  | |
|
| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 12:24:37 PM |
Thanks. Interesting that it doesn't seem to be common knowledge yet among your age group yet that marijuana messes with the chemicals in the brain and can cause some serious problems. There is some really good research out there now to back up the beliefs that mental health professionals have had about it for many years. If you google marijuana and either psychosis or schizophrenia, you can find a lot of good information.
I had heard those things before, a bit. But my understanding was that those effects were seen usually only after doing large quantities of pot for extended periods of time. There are disastrous effects from being an alcoholic as well, but alcohol is legal. In fact, alcohol is a good example. The Americans tried prohibition, all that led to was gangsters like Al Capone setting up shop in Moose Jaw and running bootleg across the border. Prohibition didn't work for alcohol and I don't think that it is working for pot/other drugs either. | |
|
| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 12:32:09 PM | ...I think its pretty obvious that the vast majority of U.S. crime begins and ends with drugs...think tobacco...why is it legal?...tobacco is a drug and it is the single biggest killer going.
Actually,Uncle Max ,you're wrong here .I read an article in National Geographic that said obesity has surpassed tobacco as the leading cause of medical illness in the United States.
This is for two reasons,first of all the education telling young people the effects of tobaco and increasingly poor eating habits of Americans.
So what have we learned from this????Educate,Educate Educate.
As a nation and at home. | |
|
| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 12:51:00 PM | | Legalize! I don't thinks so. Drug trafficking right now with laws and restrictions in place is still a major problem. Legalize it and we will be getting shipments by the tonful, more cross border business and labs popping up around the corner from you ( well, more than there is) . As if the illegal drug industry isn't enough at the moment. It's hard to find a house to rent here in Richmond that has not been used at some point for dealing. Canada already around the world has the laughable reputation as being the best "bud" producer. Can you imagine a city with no restricitions at all? I find the image very scary. | |
|
| Is it time to decriminalize all drugs?
Posted: 7/13/2008 1:01:42 PM | I absolutely believe in decriminalization, as well as freedom of choice. I don't do drugs at all, and I have a drink maybe once every 8 months. I can't stand seeing myspaces and facebooks with badly drawn .gif images and text screaming '420 smoke weed everyday yeahhhhh', I think that crap is tacky as hell. But I don't want to enforce my preferences on other people, they can govern their life however they want to, and make their own choices.
There are many MANY people, professionals as well, yes doctors lawyers and all, who smoke pot, especially here in BC. They are high functioning and do not lead criminal lifestyles. Seriously, you'd be surprised.
I have to doubt the claims of today's pot giving young people schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. Sounds like a lot of reefer madness. Schizophrenia is a disease which tends to show symptoms in late teens early 20's if one has a genetic predisposition. A lot of people with mental illness use pot to self medicate the effects of the illness that they are already feeling. I fully support medical marijuana for many reasons. Glaucoma patients, people with chronic pain, there's a few reasons. Pot tends to relax people, remove pain, with few if any side effects and in that sense it is very useful.
In any sense, it is a social/medical issue not a criminal one. It's only a criminal one because in a less informed time, a band of people, lawmakers and policy makers, decided to make it one. That started a very long deep rooted history full of criminal behavior related to it, and here we are today. | |
|
Home
login 
