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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/13/2008 8:30:49 PM | How many people in a relationship deny, suppress or repress a meaningful portion of themselves?
Why do they do it?
One part of you clamors to be heard and responded to, and the other parts of you go into the accommodation mode. By continuing
to compromise and deny important aspects of yourself you stay anxious and conflicted.
Why would you risk selling yourself out? How far would you take it? | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/13/2008 8:48:58 PM | Hello OP,.. I've just been reading an old thread entitled 'Out of the Mouth of Babes.
Its all about being brave enough to admit and verbalise our needs for love, for reassurance, and for security, without fear of being rejected.
It seems to resonate somewhat with your post. I think many of us will have experienced being in a relationship where we've bitten our tongue until it practically bled,.. through fear of losing the loved one. Many of us, have sat in that frozen attitude of inertia, when presented with a loved ones apparent coldness, or hurtfulness, wondering wether to retreat behind a wall of feigned indifference, and going into accomodation mode, as you put it.
I've now learned, that compromise, the kind that tears at your very core beliefs, the kind that feels like an affront to you very 'self' is never the way to go. Deny your 'self' to that extreme. and there will be an inevitable implosion. usually resulting in the implosion of the relationship itself. We all have a 'point of no return'.
A very wise and intelligent lady by the name of Rune 3 has spoken on the forums about her 'special someone'. She says, that they relate to each other, so well, that the need for that sort of agonising compromise is never needed.
I think, the more we settle for relationships that make us feel anxious or conflicted, the more we will become bitter. I , myself, would rather be alone, than be in a relationship that is a game of push me, pull you.
I have needs, I have desires,.. I have a spiritual yearning for some things that wont be denied. I will not kill off parts of my soul, to gain a half hearted relationship. Even Faust made a better deal than that,..lol.
I'll be patient, and wait for my 'special someone' with whom relating, and resonating is easy, and natural.
So, why do they do it? Fear,.. fear of loss.. losing that person.. Would I do it? i have done, with the resulting implosion. Would I do it again? Not on your life, I would'nt.
I'll wait.. patiently.. for the person who doesnt want me to strip away key elements of who I am , because we will both be similar in outlook, and want essentially the same things.
Another quote sometimes used by Rune3... 'Love is not gazing into each others eyes,.. but gazing out in the same direction.'
Morgana. x | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/13/2008 8:50:18 PM | IMO:
People conform to be accepted.
People compromise or capitulate to be loved.
There are (at least) 3 entities in a relationship, yourself, them and the two of you as a couple. None of the 3 can be neglected. All require replentishment and nurishment as even the most bountiful well will eventually run dry otherwise. When you start to keep count rather than flow(give) freely there is a discrepancy in the dynamic, it's not in balance, it's not "working". If it's understood to be temporary, or necessary and can be accepted thats one thing. If it can't or won't be corrected to restore an acceptable balance, it's time to ask yourself why are you there?
There's an old saying: " A person that acts like they alone are in the relationship...soon will be!" | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/13/2008 8:56:03 PM | Good topic, the answers, I don't know why.
I've experienced it on the "receiving end". I am just myself, always have been and those I meet inevitably say "wow you're so much just like what I thought you would be." Maybe it's that my expectations are that the person I'm meeting would be the same, but it hasn't happened often.
There are so many self help books, just scanning the titles (I'm a bookstore/library "junkie") it would seem that many are sadly self-UNaware.
I'm aware of my flaws and quirks, talk about them...joke about them. But I am aware and as frank and open as I am with other people, I'm just as much so with myself. I still like me, though....a lot! 
" A person that acts like they alone are in the relationship...soon will be!" Ehh...that resonates with me, being with a "single person" who was in a committed relationship but still acted single, when they wanted to but was more than happy to be involved when it suited them. Funny when it comes to the "I need to talk to you" it's never been a surprise. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:02:28 PM | | From the evidence of divorce rates, I'd say not many suppress too much of anything. It appears to be fashionable to say and do whatever you want in the spirit of the "just being myself", "like it or leave it" philosophy. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:05:16 PM |
One part of you clamors to be heard and responded to
Make that both parts. I don't think I know how to suppress my clamoring!
Why would you risk selling yourself out? How far would you take it?
I might go as far as to say I couldn't sell myself out if I wanted too ... I tried, and they just wouldn't pay! | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:08:21 PM | " How many people in a relationship deny, suppress or repress a meaningful portion of themselves?"
Op did i inspire this thread because of our conversation earlier this evening
Very interesting question.
I can only be me Op, it's too darn hard trying to live up to what someone else expects of me. Like bucsgirl says "I still like me" . That's the major issue with most dating situations these day, men/ women pretending to be whom they think the other person want them to be, instead of being themselves. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:15:03 PM | | I think that there is always a chance of compromising.It's how we may see the other person or are we hard on ourselves? We need to be aware that manipulation is easier achieved with people on an emotional level. Everyone is vulnerable to it at some stage. We wouldn't be human otherwise. The important thing is to recognise the action with the words. Do they fit? It takes reminding and rewinding at times to fully know, but imporatntly accept it. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:15:17 PM |
It appears to be fashionable to say and do whatever you want in the spirit of the "just being myself", "like it or leave it" philosophy.
The OP was about people who are IN a relationship.
I am very much myself always, who else could I be? But it's always out there, upfront, from a reply to a first contact email, long before there is a relationship. If the few individuals I have become involved with had that mindset, then there wouldn't have been a relationship. They weren't their true selves and the times I did confront them with the "before the relationship" and "after I'm in the relationship" difference the response was...can I have another chance? Pfft chance to be who? I'm not a therapist or martyr. It's not on me to make anyone else self aware and/or figure out what or how they need to accept or "fix" things about them that would make keeping a relationship more difficult.
If that were something I enjoyed or desired, I'd be looking to date a Jekyl/Hyde, just reading people's forum posts and profiles it's obvious that there are so many of those.
I don't say or do anything I want to when I'm IN a relationship, but when I am I wouldn't expect the other person to be surprised when I do. Never has happened yet, but there's always a first time.  | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:24:54 PM | Very good specification, Bucsgirl.
I 've never had this problem if not in a relationship. It is a formal relationship that brings the issue of self denial to life for me.
I guess it's because I am the type that surrenders. Now, If I don't do that skillfully, I will end up losing myself in the relationship.
I take for granted that to be in a relationship means to have to give up a part of myself. My problem is "Which part"? Now, If I end up giving up my nastier part ( the fighter , so to speak) that could even be a good thing, but If I end up giving up my self-respect, which is truly my strength, that to me equals denying the part of myself that makes me unique, and therefore lovable and therefore stronger and therefore able to survive. How to shoot your own foot!
Everyone is vulnerable to it at some stage What really makes me vulnerable and weak is the giving up of the part of myself I need in order to survive. I don't know what is wrong with me but I tend to become a wimp, when in a relationship. I must have taken after my mother.
Isn't a relationship supposed to make you stronger?
Op did i inspire this thread ? No, it's an old peeve of mine.
But you could have inspired it ( potentially), guess why?
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/13/2008 10:07:11 PM |
I take for granted that to be in a relationship means to have to give up a part of myself. My problem is "Which part"? Now, If I end up giving up my nastier part ( the fighter , so to speak) that could even be a good thing, but If I end up giving up my self-respect, which is truly my strength, that to me equals denying the part of myself that makes me unique, and therefore lovable and therefore stronger and therefore able to survive. How to shoot your own foot!
If a woman I was dating thought like that I would end it in a hurry, what's the point? I wouldn't want a woman who can't be herself. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/13/2008 10:12:52 PM | "Everyone is vulnerable to it at some stage" Being vulnerable is essential..in whatever relationship, even friends. You like someone, it's human you want them to like you.
It's not the vulnerability, it's the FEAR that being vulnerable exposes.
Read the threads...I'm afraid...past traumas hurts...don't want that again. Well DUH who would? It's the fear that being vulnerable, exposing your true, total self and fearing there won't be acceptance...that's the "thing".
Noone wants to like someone that won't like them back. The resolution IMO is the acceptance that even wanting to be a friend, same sex, it's a risk. And many just don't do anything because they're more immobolized by FEAR than they are free to accept that if they don't "like" them, it's a blip...someone else will.
People like me or don't like me, I'm fine with that, I'm vocal and speak my mind. And yes, I have made friends with others that didn't like me, but told me why. I didn't like them either and told them why. Didn't want to convince, schmooze, but appreciated their honesty and directness and TADA their self awareness.
I appreciate and respect that, and for some strange reason, if someone's like that, we end up being great friends. Go figure.
I respect them for the same reason I respect myself, being honest with themselves and good with who they are. I like people like that, and they tend to like me. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/13/2008 10:25:40 PM | message two has said it very clearly for me:
"Its all about being brave enough to admit and verbalise our needs for love, for reassurance, and for security, without fear of being rejected."
i have never given up my "self" in the traditional way within a relationship. but, given that, i have experienced being "devalued". i can only conjure up the picture of a wolf in sheep's clothing. except in your mind, you see the sheep in wolf's clothing. and so, you are gentle and accepting and the wolf allows itself to be pet and soothed. the fangs are hidden, but you are never truly loved because you are the lioness--or maybe just of a different species.
i risk stating who i am and what i believe. but i don't risk abandonment, and so i take less than love. it's very confusing to me.
a while ago i read several threads on pof about living apart and showing love in deeds rather than words. now, i am a direct person and so i gave up my need for a direct assertion of "love" and accepted the words of many others such as he really does love you, you are so lucky to have a good friend and he "shows" you love, do it one day at a time, etc. etc. etc.
underneath, being a direct person, i squelched my style and took what i could get. monogamously, yes. for over two years, yes. but with resassurance and security? absolutely not. it got very confusing. he was loyal? what is loyalty? not having sex with another woman? being there for you when you need him (as you are there for him)? does loyalty and monogamy and long term equate to love? commitment? for me, yes. for him, no.
so, i expressed my "self" but did not demand my "needs" be addressed. i put them off. i found myself more and more getting verbal attacks on intentions i never would ever conjure up in my head. i looked the other way.
people, it is one thing to actively compromise, while being yourself. it is quite another thing to look away. when someone after a good long while, cannot say s/he loves you. believe it. maybe it's not about they are just "not into you". maybe it's about, they are unable or simply unwilling to love. and if they are just not into you, what emotional bloodsuckers they are, to feed off of your love and not offer you reassurance or security? it's crazy to always have to be a strong woman or a strong man. when someone loves your strengths AND your weaknesses, that is what "nurtures" the self.
i have had more than my share of neglect. it is never too late to stop being willing to take it. and, i am so grateful for all of you, out there in cyberspace. i agree that you might not meet your SO this way. but you sure as hell can make a lot of friends who you otherwise would never have met in your immediate neighborhood.
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/13/2008 10:35:08 PM | ~OT~ Today, I don't allow myself to be changed by or altered by anyone but me. That wasn't always the case. Compromise isn't the least bit synonymous with giving in to someone else. It's a "deal" people make which is (or should be) equitable and fair to both or all parties involved. If one person feels it's necessary to zip-it, keep their thoughts/feelings/fears/hopes/etc., in check in the company of their SO, they need a new SO. JMO  | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/13/2008 10:39:48 PM | aha, verygreeneyes, i wanted to write to you today, saw your post below and i tried it--but not taking email from my sex or gender. so just know that you are one of the people on pof who helps me to form my opinions and i thank you for that!  | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/13/2008 10:46:39 PM | I am surprised I didn't read battered women telling their story on this thread. Women and there are men too, that are slowly beaten down verbally and/or physically giving up parts of their lives. They conform or do what they feel makes it easier to get along with the person they feel that they love and loves them. Slowly but surely every bit of the person is taken under control to the point that the abused person doesn't even desire to do anything they once did, even going to the grocery store can be questioned by the abuser, so why bother doing anything. But maybe you didn't want to read about how some people loose themself, isolate themself, and don't even realize how far they have withdrawn unless something happens or someone does something because they see what is happening or has happened. Some never make it back...
Playground Isolator by Karen Stever is a great song about this and Bleed it Out by Linkin Park has a similar theme. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/13/2008 11:29:55 PM | This particular thread is painful for me. My marriage didn't start out that way, but life intervened. Life seems to have a distinct talent for disturbing the best laid of plans of mice and men.
The first six years of my marriage were great. We had three beautiful daughters, a nice home, things were going well. Then one morning all that changed and the next 17 years were h3ll.
My ex survived 5 brain injuries during our marriage. Each injury worsened the mental and emotional problems of the one before it. The physical problems were barely noticeable. I was basically married to 6 different men; all in the same body. About 3 years before he abandoned me, he was finally diagnosed an acute bipolar paranoid schizophrenic with abusive tendencies. He is also a sociopath, a pathological liar, and a master at identity theft. The last 4 years he was around, my middle daughter and I were literally prisoners in our own home. I lost everything I owned because of him.
Why did I stay? Because I took my marriage vows seriously. I married him for better or worse: not better and no brain injuries. And truthfully, I was convinced (through my own ignorance) that things would get better.
Because of my dedication and loyalty and unconditional love for him, I lost me. Every dream I ever had died. Every hope I ever allowed to take root was wiped out. I became invisible.
How far did I take it? I guess you could say that I gave myself away in return for 17 years of torment and pain. So much so that I now, two years after he abandoned me, have no idea who "me" is.
I spent so many long years being who I thought I needed to be while caring for him and our daughters. I'm now on the road to finding out just who "me" is. Roads are for journeys, not destinations. I plan on being on the road for a long time.
On top of the problems with my ex, I was also caring for my middle daughter who survived 4 brain injuries in the last 6 years of her life. She died in '06; the same day my father died. My daughter and my father shared the same birthday: Valentine's Day.
I've stood the test of time and trial. But that, to me, is what loyalty, dedication, and unconditional love are all about. Some will call me a fool. I've been called much worse than that. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/14/2008 12:29:34 AM | | You know, I have found I like myself a lot more now than when I was heavily involved with my last significant other. He never really did anything overtly, but I always found myself having to conform in seemingly little ways. I didn't even realize it at the time, but I do retrospectively. Just little things like he'd be embarrassed if I inadvertently said or did the "wrong" thing in public, for example. At the time, it gave me the sense I was doing something wrong and I sort of internalized it without realizing it. Retrospectively, whether he meant to or not, he was bullying me in subtle ways. I wouldn't have tolerated it back then, but it was so subtle I didn't recognize it at the time. I was always very independent, but even more so now. It's like a yoke has been lifted and I'll never be yoked again! | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/14/2008 1:21:16 AM | As a young girl I didn't have the self assurance to judge where the middle was in a compromise, I trusted an older man to guide me.
Ended up resenting him for taking advantage of it.
I've grown since then and have the strength and self belief to have faith in my own judgements whilst still listening to the other side.
Its a difficult lesson to learn though, and takes some real strength to achieve. I can see why some people dont make it, I was lucky to have support to reassure me & not keep devaluing myself | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/14/2008 1:21:49 AM | | I think thats 1 reason why Ive tended to being single...im not all THAT good at conforming. There are some things about myself that I dont like and id definitely like to have someone nice by my side, but I am not really about to be someones whipping boy, lol. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/14/2008 1:33:37 AM | I'm not often in a relationship, maybe a day or two in every five to twelve years, but my problem used to be interruptions. I could not finish a story, a sentence, because my lover would say something stupid about who pays the rent and why don't I run down and get her a package of cigarettes.
And those were the good days. In a bed day she'd force me into committing coitus interruptus, and I'd feel I was going insane with desire by the third straight month she would not let me orgasm. Luckily an egg truck hit her, and I could connive her twelve-year old daughter to let me out of the cage in the kitchen when she came back to the house in two weeks to pick up her records. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/14/2008 4:21:26 AM | I think this happens because people fear their thoughts/feelings will be deemed wrong or flawed. They fear being misunderstood, confrontation, judgments, rejection, and being left behind.
But it isn't until we're openly sharing ourselves as we are, vulnerabilities and all, that we're truly sharing in our relationship and allowing that person the full picture of who we are.
We can't blame them if we aren't openly revealing, and we can't blame them for the angst we experience in holding back. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/14/2008 4:27:08 AM | | You should take it to the max, but only when you have found someone you are completely in love with. Don't give your heart away to anyone who doesn't deserve it. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/14/2008 5:35:32 AM | The neglected self sure can happen, whether in a relationship or not, yes?
It is always important to stay true to yourself...and for me, I don't know who else to be but myself. Aware of my strengths, working on my character defects with honesty.
If you are good at loving, caring, and sharing, then perhaps it would be more palatable to accept that there will, and should be a bit of accomodation when involved with another. That's relationship, that's part of loving someone. I wouldn't look at that as selling myself out...especially if the other person is equally accomodating, into you and willing to share.
But, if one feels as if it is a denial of who they are or want to be....or if they are selling out, it simply means they are not prepared or ready, or able to share. Either that, or it is a very lopsided relationship.
In that case, it's really pretty simple, one should remain alone, and hang on to all that they are, all that is them......then, there is no 'fear' of selling out.
cheers
````````````` Kimbo``````````````````````````` | |
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