online dating service
REGISTER | MAIL/PROFILE | HELP | NOW ONLINE | SEARCH | RATING | FORUMS | SUCCESS STORIES

 

Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest 100% free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  > The USD...      Mod Threads Home login  
Page 1 of 2 1, 2
 Author Thread: The USD...
 Outdoor2

Joined: 4/1/2006
Msg: 1
view profile
History
The USD...
Posted: 7/15/2008 6:36:47 PM
How long before the USD becomes just another currency...not the predominate currency of the world as it is now?

As the currency devolves...so does the country...?

Since the Spring of 2003, the US dollar has lost over one third of its value.

This year alone the dollar has fallen by over nine per cent against other major currencies.

While a declining dollar has been hailed by many American commentators as a solution to the growing US trade deficit, America's trading partners complain that they are having to pay for America's own economic shortcomings. As the dollar falls most heavily against the euro, for example, it makes US exports significantly cheaper compared to euro exports.

Speaking before the US Congress in early November, Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president, warned: "The dollar cannot remain 'someone else's problem.' If we are not careful, monetary disarray could morph into economic war. We would all be its victims."

But the most dramatic evidence of the dollar losing its currency reserve status is in the Middle East. Some Opec nations are even pressing to change the pricing of oil out of dollars.

Part I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54MUm2P1jOU
Part II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdrNbhdl7uU
 printer2

Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 2
view profile
History
The USD...
Posted: 7/15/2008 7:15:16 PM
Soon they will stop using the US dollar and use the Canadian one. And for good reason. Ours is prettier.
 Paumanok

Joined: 6/15/2008
Msg: 3
The USD...
Posted: 7/16/2008 12:47:32 PM
It doesn't matter because quarters have kept their value. People will just start using more quarters. They will exchange certificates equal in value to four quarters apiece. These will replace the waning dollar. Economists tend to agree with this predication once I speak for them.
 Labdien!

Joined: 10/14/2007
Msg: 4
view profile
History
The USD...
Posted: 7/16/2008 1:21:27 PM
Typical.... their currency is worth nothing at all............ but it is still the currency of the bloody World!
 Labdien!

Joined: 10/14/2007
Msg: 5
view profile
History
The USD...
Posted: 7/16/2008 1:25:55 PM

How long before the USD becomes just another currency...not the predominate currency of the world as it is now?


And exactly who says it is the predominate currency of the world as it is now?
 Draskinn

Joined: 7/11/2007
Msg: 6
view profile
History
The USD...
Posted: 7/16/2008 2:29:03 PM
And exactly who says it is the predominate currency of the world as it is now?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_currency


reserve currency (or anchor currency) is a currency which is held in significant quantities by many governments and institutions as part of their foreign exchange reserves. It also tends to be the international pricing currency for products traded on a global market, such as oil, gold, etc.

This permits the issuing country to purchase the commodities at a marginally cheaper rate than other nations, which must exchange their currency with each purchase and pay a transaction cost. (For major currencies, this transaction cost is negligible with respect to the price of the commodity.) It also permits the government issuing the currency to borrow money at a better rate, as there will always be a larger market for that currency than others.

The United States dollar is the most important reserve currency in the world today. Throughout the last decade, an average of two thirds of the total allocated foreign exchange reserves of countries have been in U.S. dollars. For this reason, the U.S. dollar is said to have "reserve-currency status", making it somewhat easier for the United States to run higher trade deficits with greatly postponed economic impact (see currency crisis). Central bank reserves held in dollar-denominated debt, however, are relatively small compared to private holdings of such debt. If foreign holders of dollar-denominated assets decided to shift holdings to assets denominated in other currencies, there could be serious consequences for the U.S. economy. Changes in the structure of the international financial system, however, typically occur only gradually. Thus, a large, sudden shift away from dollar reserve holdings is unlikely.
 leanco

Joined: 12/7/2006
Msg: 7
view profile
History
The USD...
Posted: 7/16/2008 2:31:36 PM
As long as oil is still priced in US Dollars and the US continues to hold the biggest gun over everyone else, the USD will be the world currency.
 slysterling

Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 8
view profile
History
The USD...
Posted: 7/16/2008 4:19:28 PM
OP:
How long before the USD becomes just another currency...not the predominate currency of the world as it is now?

This can be a very confusing subject to discuss, but some say no later than the year 2020, and perhaps much earlier depending on how badly the US continues to mistreat it's own economy.

"""...for every 100 thousand dollars of a (US) citizen's assets, the international buying power dropped $58,000 since 2001 vs. the Euro..."""

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/exchange_rate.htm

Later you'll see that number of 58000 has now been revised to 80,000
----------
Euro notes cash in to overtake dollar-Published: December 27 2006

The US dollar bill’s standing as the world’s favourite form of cash is being usurped by the five-year-old euro.

The value of euro notes in circulation is this month likely to exceed the value of circulating dollar notes, according to calculations by the Financial Times. Converted at Wednesday’s exchange rates, the euro took the lead in October....

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/18338034-95ec-11db-9976-0000779e2340.html?nclick_check=1
----------------------------

"...Many of the world's currencies are pegged against the dollar. Some countries, such as Ecuador, El Salvador, and Panama, have gone even further and eliminated their own currency in favor of the United States dollar. The dollar continues to dominate global currency reserves, with 64.6% held in dollars, as compared to 25.8% held in euros (see Reserve Currency).

Since 1999, the dollar's dominance has begun to be eroded by the euro, which represents a larger size economy, and has the prospect of more countries adopting the euro as their national currency. The euro inherited the status of a major reserve currency from the German Mark (DM), and since then its contribution to official reserves has risen as banks seek to diversify their reserves and trade in the eurozone continues to expand

As of December 2006, the euro surpassed the dollar in the combined value of cash in circulation. The value of euro notes in circulation has risen to more than €610 billion, equivalent to US$800 billion at the exchange rates at the time (today equivalent to circa US$968 billion).

...An alternative definition of a world or global currency refers to a hypothetical single global currency, as the proposed Terra, produced and supported by a central bank which is used for all transactions around the world, regardless of the nationality of the entities (individuals, corporations, governments, or other organisations) involved in the transaction. No such official currency currently exists.

There are many different variations of the idea, including a possibility that it would be administered by a global central bank or that it would be on the gold standard.[3] Supporters often point to the euro as an example of a supranational currency successfully implemented by a union of nations with disparate languages, cultures, and economies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_currency
-------------

The Euro’s Challenge to the Dollar: Different Views from Economists and Evidence from COFER (Currency
Composition of Foreign Exchange Reserves) and Other Data

pg33.:"""...Finally, the fourth and probably most significant factor is the possibility of serious economic mismanagement by the U.S. that undermines confidence in the dollar’s value...
There is no a priori reason to assume the euro’s role as an international store of value would not advance further—although the pace of progress may depend on the various factors already spelled out above by our economists. Two factors, perhaps, deserve highlighting—the pace of structural reforms in the EMU and impact of U.S. current account deficits on the dollar’s value.

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2006/wp06153.pdf
------------------------

"""...the US current account deficit -- which accounts for 70 percent of the world sum of current account deficits, hence absorbs 70 percent of net available global saving -- lies at the heart of the problem, the contributing authors stress that the present global imbalances cannot be sustained indefinitely..."""

Global Imbalances and Developing Countries: Remedies for a Failing International Financial System

http://www.fondad.org/publications/global-imbalances-remedies
-------------------------
OP:
As the currency devolves...so does the country...?

Sounds like a chicken or the egg question. Symbiotic relationship. My guess is as the economy of the US continues to deteriorate, so too does the currency. What the dollar used to get you on the world markets now apparently only gets you 42 cents worth, but as we'll see that number could now actually be 20 cents. And if the Chinese and japanese ever decide to, it could get even uglier. They own close to 70% of America's debt now. Not a real good spot to be in. See also:
http://mwhodges.home.att.net/exchange_rate.htm


Together, China and Japan own 40% ($1.9 trillion) of total World international reserves ($5 trillion). The U.S. share is just 1%. Additionally, the USA has tremendous international debts exceeding $10 trillion to more than cancel out its mere $69 billion in international reserves, whereas Japan has zilch international debt.

...Many other productive nations now have 31 times more foreign reserves backing up each of their children than we have backing ours, and their lead is increasing as the U.S. continues with massive trade deficits and record high internal private sector debt ratios, with nil savings. With 5% of the world's population, America consumes over 20% of world imports.

The U.S. is the world's largest debtor, a long fall from being the world's largest creditor when I was a young worker...
For most of the 20th century the U.S. 'wrote' most of the rules for world trade. No longer.
For a long time the U.S. dollar was unchallenged as the world's reserve currency. No Longer



Warren Buffett (2003 article in Fortune) tells the story of two fictional islands, Thriftville and Squanderville. In Squanderville, the residents live beyond their means by importing from Thriftville in return for IOUs. Eventually, Thriftville converts this debt into Squanderville assets until Thriftville owns all of Squanderville. America, Buffett warned, was facing the same fate as Squanderville. "Our trade deficit has greatly worsened, to the point that our country's 'net worth,' so to speak, is now being transferred abroad at an alarming rate.

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/reserves.htm
-----------------------

TWO-THIRDS OF AMERICANS ARE NOT PREPARED FOR THE GLOBAL ECONOMY."

Like it or not, there are a billion talented workers coming on board the global economy who will do the most sophisticated software jobs amidst lousy environmental conditions in Indonesia, India or China. That's a reality we have to deal with. I hope we can keep our social safety net largely intact and still compete with a billion new workers. But I've got to tell you. I find myself intellectually on the side of the prime minister of Malaysia when he says 'you've had yours. Now it's our turn to have ours.

...Stated more simply - - our children owe foreigners $1.2 trillion which we citizens consumed in the last 20+ years in excess to that which we produced ourselves...The U.S. is now the World's largest debtor nation, compared to being the largest creditor in my generation - which means foreigners now own increasingly more U.S. assets than Americans own overseas. If not reversed, this trend looking forward spells dangerous challenges to the U.S. dollar, as the 'king' of world reserve currencies - and to American living standards.

...Foreigners now own more and more of America - - about "$8 trillion of U.S. financial assets, including 13% of all stocks and 24% of corporate bonds", according to Bridgewater Associates. According to the above chart, they also own 44% of all Treasury bonds. Additionally, they own real estate and factories.

We should not be mad at foreign interests. We are the ones consuming beyond our own production, creating unprecedented debts and trade deficits PLUS excessive federal spending. We are in deep trouble.



WHO IS WRITING THE RULES FOR TOMORROW'S WORLD TRADING SYSTEM - the U.S. or others?
In 'The Future of Capitalism,' 1996, author and M.I.T. economics professor Lester Thurow wrote:

"The rules for the new world order are being written in Brussels. The Common Market is now the world's largest market, and those who control the conditions of entry into the largest market have always written the rules for world trade. England did so in the 19th century, replaced by the U.S. in the 20th century. To some extent the European Union will write the rules for world trade simply because it is the only international group in the rules-writing business. It will write rules for those inside the EU and tell those outside how they can gain entry. Whatever it writes for outsiders will be copied by others as their rules governing outsiders."

This statement shows our young generation face a major challenge regarding 'who is in command of world trade,' compared to prior generations.

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/reserves_a.htm
http://mwhodges.home.att.net/
--------------------
Updated to 2008:

The US dollar declined 80% vs. the Euro 2001-2008, and also down against many others incl. 33% vs. the Canadian dollar. Regardless of the impact of U.S. stock, bond, real estate or commodity markets in the end most Americans think of their assets in terms of dollars, yet few recognize that a huge international depreciation (write-down) of those assets and the international value of their earnings is again in progress - - and there is little most know what to do to protect themselves. Just think, for every 100 thousand dollars of a citizen's assets the international buying power dropped $80,000 since 2001 vs. the Euro. Not only does that wipe-out incentive for foreigners to invest in dollar assets to help finance America's savings-short, deficit economy, it negatively impacts the store of value of U.S. citizen savings and effectively causes a huge decrease in the international value of U.S. wages.



Foreign interests have more control over the US economy than Americans, leaving the country in a state that is financially imprudent. More and more of our debt is held by foreign countries – some of which are our allies and some are not. The huge holdings of American government debt by countries such as China and Saudi Arabia could leave a powerful financial weapon in the hands of countries that may be hostile to US corporate and diplomatic interests.”

David Walker, the US comptroller general. 23 July 2007. http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/markets/united_states/article2120735.ece

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/exchange_rate.htm
----------------------------------------------------
 mungojoe

Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 9
view profile
History
The USD...
Posted: 7/16/2008 4:37:24 PM

...Stated more simply - - our children owe foreigners $1.2 trillion which we citizens consumed in the last 20+ years in excess to that which we produced ourselves...The U.S. is now the World's largest debtor nation, compared to being the largest creditor in my generation - which means foreigners now own increasingly more U.S. assets than Americans own overseas.

And we all know what happens when you can't pay the mortgage.

I hear Mr. Rothschild is preparing the foreclosure papers as we speak, perhaps we should all start collecting cardboard boxes to send south.
 Danny Sherwood

Joined: 10/4/2007
Msg: 10
view profile
History
The USD...
Posted: 7/18/2008 5:26:52 PM
The main reason the USD is preferred is that we are a free market economy, And that fascinated the rest of the world.
 Danny Sherwood

Joined: 10/4/2007
Msg: 11
view profile
History
The USD...
Posted: 7/18/2008 5:29:38 PM
The main reason the USD is preferred is that we are a free market economy, And that fascinated the rest of the world.
 DAVE632

Joined: 6/17/2006
Msg: 12
view profile
History
The USD...
Posted: 7/20/2008 11:50:39 AM
If IRAN gets bombed it is unlikely that their nuke program is entirely to blame. Abadoobajab (ya ya I know) wants to sell Mideast oil ONLY in Euros or gold. If the rest of the world complies then the USD will be worth about 13yuan or half a cent Canadian. The US would very much like to DISuade Iran from promoting this switch to a solid (if not HIGHLY indebted) gold back currency like the Euro.

BOOOM!
 gtomustang

Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 13
view profile
History
The USD...
Posted: 7/20/2008 4:40:55 PM
Nixon took the USD off the gold standard b/c the only other way to pay for unpopular Vietnam was to raise taxes. The Saudis agreed to sell oil only in USD, meaning other countries want some on hand, to buy oil. Also, America was the largest consumer market, so it helped your industries if you were a foriegn power, to keep the USD strong. Also helped when you bought oil.

Saddam, allegedly, wanted to sell his oil in euros. when someone who holds a lot of oil, makes the same decision, or the world goes off of oil...then it'll not be the currency franca.
 leanco

Joined: 12/7/2006
Msg: 14
view profile
History
The USD...
Posted: 7/20/2008 10:37:03 PM
The Iranian Oil Bourse is already trading petroleum and petro-chemicals primary in Euro and the Iranian rial since February 2008, so it is quite conceivable that someday they will be able to sell crude oil too. This would be very bad for the USD, as the rest of the world will not need to hold as much Dollars anymore.

But the one thing that America has got going for her is that she has the world's most powerful military, and historically military dominance also means economic dominance. In times of duress, the world has always rallied behind the dollars. So my belief is that as long as oil is traded in Dollars and as long as the US is the (only) world's military superpower, the USD will remain the dominant currency.

Btw, dave632, are you sure that the Euro is backed by gold?
 DAVE632

Joined: 6/17/2006
Msg: 15
view profile
History
The USD...
Posted: 7/20/2008 10:57:54 PM
The central EU banks hold enormous quantities of gold. Is the EU specifically backed by gold. I don't know but if push comes to shove the EU and the banks there can call the US. "What do YOU have backing your dollar? Nothiing, huh? Well lookiewhat WE have." Fait accompli or checkmate. Take your pick.

BTW the European banks have been buying gold for 20 years. They hold ALL the gold from the USSR as it was deposited in trust as collateral for some of their huge loans during that period when Russia and the Federation were splitting & reforming. I actually had lunch with George SOROS about 15 years ago along with a dozen other interested "investor" types and I asked him if this was happening - the EU (not yet but the European Union was already all planned out) banks were buying gold to back the new currency whereas the US had little gold to back its currency. He was so adamant in denouncing this that he started yelling at me. ANYtime a billionaire starts yelling at you that something is NOT happening you can pretty much bet it IS.

It IS.

The other huge holder of gold from my understanding are several of the MidEastern (oil) countries but again MOST of that gold is held (safely) in European banks where it is accessible should the local peasantry rise up and revolt against the royals or the other sheiks who control ALL the oil wealth now.
 leanco

Joined: 12/7/2006
Msg: 16
view profile
History
The USD...
Posted: 7/20/2008 11:51:25 PM
the EU and the banks there can call the US. "What do YOU have backing your dollar? Nothiing, huh? Well lookiewhat WE have."


Actually, the US may simply answer, "we just happen to have one of our aircraft carriers in your neighborhood. May be she can stop by and say hello!". lol...

And that's just it. With uncontested military power, the US and the USD will always have the upperhand.
 marita_b

Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 17
view profile
History
The USD...
Posted: 7/21/2008 5:31:48 AM
And that's just it. With uncontested military power, the US and the USD will always have the upperhand


uncontested? remind me who won the Vietnam war again?

but honestly people,.....do you always have to think with the big stick first? It seems to me that, that is exactly how you got yourselves into a debt load so great that the Canadian dollar is now considered on par to yours by many American companies today,....

and actually as of todays rate,....here is how it stands
1.00 CAD = 0.996335 USD http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi

wouldn't it be nice if the big sticks were replaced by thinking caps instead?

I found an interesting paper that asks the question,...Is the United States Bankrupt?
http://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/review/06/07/Kotlikoff.pdf

Interesting reading regardless of whether you agree with the paper's conclusion,....
 leanco

Joined: 12/7/2006
Msg: 18
view profile
History
The USD...
Posted: 7/21/2008 1:29:22 PM
Exchange rates against the Greenback do fluctuate over time and is not necessarily an accurate barometer. In the early 1970s, the C$ enjoyed an even higher exchange rate and yet the US was not worse off back then.

My point is, as long as the USD is a petrodollar and the US has the military means to defend it, it will remain as the world's reserve currency. There is no doubt that the US economy is in a heap of trouble now and there will be pain for many, and adjustments will have to be made. But to think that the USD will lose its status as the world's reserve currency (which was the original question) is a little too far fetch, imo. At least not at this time.
 DAVE632

Joined: 6/17/2006
Msg: 19
view profile
History
The USD...
Posted: 7/21/2008 3:52:11 PM
Time will tell. I hope you're right but all indicators right now point to a global (and I'm not talking GORE crap here) meltdown in the financials and that could lead to governments losing control too. We shall see. Hope for the best. Prepare for the wurst ( )

and that from a dude who never made it into the Boy Scouts. I got kicked out of Cub Scouts for eating Brownies.






 SueCat51

Joined: 8/11/2007
Msg: 20
view profile
History
The USD...
Posted: 7/21/2008 5:42:35 PM
I am not happy with where the dollar is at. When the dollar sucks vs. the Euro, it has put some of my trips to Europe on hold. I think the minute that we decided not to back our currency with gold, everything went to hell in a hen basket.
 sweetness-one

Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 21
view profile
History
The USD...
Posted: 7/21/2008 6:56:32 PM

Exchange rates against the Greenback do fluctuate over time and is not necessarily an accurate barometer. In the early 1970s, the C$ enjoyed an even higher exchange rate and yet the US was not worse off back then


I was going to post, that I recall that time....not "recall" it myself, but from what my parents told me. Also, that only a few years later, they were forced to renew their mortgage contract on their house back then for a year's term at something like 27%, because that was the best rate they could get at the time, in Canada. And, less than a decade later though, I recall vacationing in Florida every year, and the CAD dollar was only getting 75 cents to the USD. So.....trends change.

I might be totally crazy, but on the thread topic...does no one but me figure that China is probably going to end up being the next major economic influence? Whether or not the yuan holds that much influence now, or whatever markers they can or can't call into play in world economics....but think about it...if things ever change in China, how the people are treated or paid? Think about how many goods North America imports from there, from Walmart right down to the smaller things we all probably have in our houses....Hmm...I'm possibly goofy here but...YIKES, to think how much our North American market does depend on China for everyday things? So many companies in NA are already thouroughly owned....or am I way off-base?
 louiscyfer2

Joined: 11/21/2007
Msg: 22
The USD...
Posted: 7/21/2008 9:02:24 PM
And that's just it. With uncontested military power, the US and the USD will always have the upperhand.


Was that a joke? Uncontested but still can't beat a handfull of guys (compared to the US) using homemade bombs a surplus AKs!!

Now as for the dollar..
My guess/estimate (as a former currency trader) is the US dollar will be the currency of choice for the next 10 years. The Euro will become the reserve currency at that time as it is backed by Gold. The US dollar is backed by the US Govt. which at this time appears to be disfunctional. The World is watching the next Election, watching to see how the housing/credit crisis are handled as well as the oil crisis. It appears Bush's answer for both is the same...Nothing!
 Outdoor2

Joined: 4/1/2006
Msg: 23
view profile
History
The USD...
Posted: 7/21/2008 10:53:22 PM

My point is, as long as the USD is a petrodollar and the US has the military means to defend it, it will remain as the world's reserve currency.

Those are two pretty big "ifs".

It seems to me a large part of the reason for the attack on Iraq was that Hussein was demanding euros for Iraqi oil.

If that were to happen, and other countries followed his lead, the devastation to the USD would be monumental.

The debt incurred by an invasion would be a drop in the bucket in comparison. However, the last six years clearly shows that drop is swelling.

Iran has expressed interest in selling their oil in euros, hence, I suspect, war, once again, is afoot.

The US military is already stretched thin (conventionally).

It's of no surprise (though extremely troubling) that some have floated the idea of a tactical nuclear strike on Iran.

Desperate times call for desperate measures, but rarely do those measures pan out when the stakes are so high.

China owns a vast amount of US debt...so much so that they're almost exclusively financing the Iraq war.

They are also rather friendly with Iran.

Since they're the oldest kid on the block, I think that China knows economic warfare is far cheaper (in the long run) than military warfare.

Symbiotic relationship

Indeed....what is China and Japan to do with all the debt they own? They can hold out...but for how long before they call in their markers?
 DAVE632

Joined: 6/17/2006
Msg: 24
view profile
History
The USD...
Posted: 7/21/2008 11:49:20 PM
This is a scary read. Not just the article itself but all the comments below.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/07/21/ccview121.xml


********

Many people say that China has the US and much of the rest of the world, over a barrel due to cheap labor. Stats show that up to 250 MILLION Chinese work to supply the North AMerican consumer market. Yup we buy a TON (understatement if there ever was one) of stuff from China - much of it we can no longer make ourselves because when the owners shut down companies here the Chinese bought all the machinery and took it back to China.

BUT


If there is a problem either militarily or a massive downturn in the economy here (which is about 80% certain as I type this) imagine what China is faced with. 250 MILLION or more people thrown out of work because we, the ones over the proverbial barrel, aren't buying anything they make anymore. Show me ANY country that can deal with a quarter of a billion or more pissed off, out of work and desperate workers.

If we're in deep KA KA , China is complete TOAST.
 Beefcakedaddio

Joined: 6/6/2007
Msg: 25
view profile
History
The USD...
Posted: 7/22/2008 12:05:53 AM
"Show me ANY country that can deal with a quarter of a billion or more pissed off, out of work and desperate workers."


I think China has shown it is quite capaable in dealing with any of its pissed of citizens.....Tienemen Square
Page 1 of 2 1, 2
 
Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  > The USD...