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| Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 7/17/2008 8:36:38 AM | It seems to me that (perhaps because of media, etc.).....in this fast-paced, instant everything....world, that there seems to be a lack of class, manners, gentility.......
It seems to be girl meets boy.....and putting the horse before the cart......it's all about sex (trust me I am so there right now, after being celibate since the divorce)....but that is a side issue.
I watch the old movies (you know, the ones with the plots, LOL), and wish society could go back a little......with the flirting, excitement.....etc.......Yes, I know it still exists....Guess this is a waxing nostalgia thread!
Rossal
P.S. I work at a University, and the language....wow....I remember in high school; you rarely heard a girl swear; now they swear as much as the guys....... | |
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| Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 7/17/2008 9:39:27 AM | The media point you hit on is right on. actually if you think about it we have less than 90 minutes in a movie to work through the complications of romance to hit happily ever after. romance is not a lost art but its not as common in the media or real life as it has been in the past. its there, but you gotta look harder to find people who believe in love and happily ever after and actually understand that once the courtship is over and the rice is thrown then you gotta get to work. or as one guy said at a recent christian retreat, marriage boils down to one word, commitment. | |
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| Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 7/17/2008 10:27:45 AM | It's fast food america! Everyone wants the drive through version of everything...it starts with pushing our children harder and faster (let them be KIDS, for cripes sake!!) and melds into everything else, including relationships.
This is EXACTLY what has kept me divorced for 18+ years! I have had some incredible relationships...but none that are in sync with my values and sacred-ness of the institution of marriage. In sync? Let's marry! Not working? Let's divorce! Ugh...no thanks...I rather be an old maid with cats than have several marriages under my belt! | |
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| Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 7/17/2008 11:10:43 AM | Hmm.....maybe my daughter's comments are actually taking root. According to her, I'll be in a nursing home soon anyway, so I'd better sieze the moment?
Us old folks have to live NOW.....we don't have much time left!!
Actually, I think romance still exists, just as much as there are still gentlemen out there. We just don't always take our time to smell the roses like we did when we thought we still had our whole lives ahead of us. | |
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| Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 7/17/2008 11:52:32 AM | I pine for the old-fashioned.. romantic.. cuddly-kissy-face-huggy-bear.. type of relationship that is best depicted in the movies of yore. Awwwwwwwww!!!!!
Reality? Sledgehammer!!!
I truly do believe there are gentlemen/ladies of those "yester-year standards" still available today.
With that being said however.. I just think there are so many other complications to get in the way these days.. to make those "perfect" types of romance/s an impossibility.. or at least.. an improbability. Jobs/careers/added volunteer work.. kids/grandkids.. time/distance.. seem to ruin what could be the Mr/Ms Rights of our lives. If it isn't one thing.. it seems to be another! People aren't standing still long enough to even notice there are any roses.. let alone smell them! Those of us that do and can.. seem to find only those that can't.. or don't. Going out on a "nice" date seems even harder than ever with all the traffic.. noise.. pollution.. crowds.. violence/ignorance.. that by the time I get to where I'm supposed to meet with someone.. even if it's within 25 miles.. I feel a wreck! All I'm thinking about then.. is the horrific ride I have in store when it's time to leave.. rather than the person I'm out there with! Finding the "ideal" spot for a date isn't so bad.. it's getting there.. and then.. getting back! SHEESH!!! 
Then of course.. there are those sex fiends that are now more available and pronounced.. then ever.. to allllll of us.. thanks to technology. So.. it's easier to see the "bad" in todays world.. and with both genders.. than it used to be in the olden days..  . | |
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| Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 7/17/2008 2:18:10 PM | Modern society has changed what is the acceptable role for both men and women.
Men used to be respected for being gentlemen, being the heads of a home, treating his lady specially. Well, now we are all "equal" and they aren`t obliged to do it any more. They can just screw around and dog around and no one would think any less of them.
It`s now a lifestyle and is considered acceptable. Most men find romance to just be a pain in the kneck anyways. they would just rather get it on and be done with it. Now it is accepetable culturally to embrace their unevolved carnal animal selves, get what they want and move on. Much nicer for them to not have to go through all of that romantic crap. | |
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| Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 7/17/2008 2:56:06 PM | I pine too redarchangel..... I pine too.....
I was at dinner the other night with a gentleman-friend... at a family type restaurant.
There were children nearby, as well as tables of only adults. The language was enough
to make my hair curl. OK, so my hair is naturally curly, but it was a night with very little humidity....
Point is, back then, whenever "then" was, I don't remember ever hearing adults cuss like I heard the other night.
If there were children present, adults took it upon themselves to watch their mouths and act accordingly.
Unfortunately, that kind of shit, OMG, comes out of the mouths of babes now!
I couldn't watch Batman when I was younger, because my parents thought it was too dangerous
and we weren't even allowed to say "FART" because that was considered bad and foul, he he, language.
So now I swear at any given chance. I say fook and damnit and shit all the time..... BUT,
I do NOT talk like that around children or the elderly, out of respect for them.
It's in the movies, it's on the tellie and it's in the schools now. There's no going back, my sister Rossal......
So let's just go forward with a bit of nostalgia and a watchful eye for those that don't need
to be reminded what a loose mouthed society we've become.
As far as the sex? I can't help ya with that sister..... I'm sure I should have been born in the
50's.... when sex happened only after a long courtship and actually getting to know one
another......
But that's moot, as that usually goes out the window the minute the chemistry locks in.
weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee~ | |
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| Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 7/17/2008 3:09:24 PM | | Yeah but meanwhile CUPID (In Roman mythology, Cupid (Latin cupido) is the god of erotic love and beauty) got a kick in his face and now his teeth are just flying chips landing everywhere. | |
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| Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 7/17/2008 4:52:43 PM | Yes, Ms. Rossal ... like you, I watch the older movies when they are available, and for the same reasons – to me, they are more character and plot-orientated, rather than ‘effects’-orientated. And I try to value the same types of things as you, as well: class, manners and gentility. And romance and courtship are still a big part of my life – (when they are accepted). And the reason that I treat all these things with importance is because during my ‘learning years’ – ages 5-15 (by age 17, I knew all there was to know), during those years, my family taught me that these things were important. And the reason that kids today do not treat the same things as important is because they were not taught as being important by their own parents. Yes, I know children are responsible for their own personality development and that development is influenced greatly by the child's peer network. But the personality that interacts with that peer network is initially shaped by their family environment. Perhaps, in our vigor to change the world and layer it with love, flowers and peace signs ... perhaps there were some things that we forgot to teach our own children.
cdn guy | |
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| Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 7/17/2008 5:26:05 PM |
It seems to be girl meets boy.....and putting the horse before the cart......it's all about sex (trust me I am so there right now, after being celibate since the divorce)....but that is a side issue
People "date" for different reasons. The most common is to find "romantic love", which, really, is all about sexual attraction. Back in the old days, there was a different paradigm, where women "held out" for marriage, being more or less "powerless" in the market place.
With the advent of the pill, and equality of the sexes in the work place, that paradigm began to change. The "old paradigm" could only be "enforced" because most "decent" women wouldn't easily engage in sex.
In our present day and age, divorce is the norm, as is material independence. Most women are in touch with their sexuality, and with the prevalence of birth control, there's no need to be abstinent for practical reasons. As a result, sexuality is an expectation for both men and women as a normal part of dating.
The "romantic courtship" that you miss, where sexuality is withheld until it's "earned" is something that was based on an old paradigm that no longer exists. Romance now, for many people, is a celebration of cherishing one's lover, rather than trying to "earn" one's way into her pants. I think romance in the current era is more sincere, more real, and less manipulative. | |
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| Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 7/17/2008 7:58:12 PM | Renaissance Man, you said it. Basically those women who want more romance should stop putting out until the ring is on the finger. Sure, ya gotta shop around more. But that's what people did in the old days, eh...??? ....or did they just marry the first person who came close and tell stories to the kids...???
Romance is in YOUR control, you can't blame someone ELSE for being unromantic. Get the candles and roses out. Break out the guest towels. Go have a nice quiet dinner and make the plans yourself instead of WAITING for someone else to do it all.
Romance is where you make it. | |
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| Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 7/17/2008 8:45:26 PM | Feminist skilled Cupid. Okay! Give me a break! We ARE the ones who burned our bras and demanded to be counted as sexual equals. If he can screw everything that walks, well, we can, too. Played right into their hands. Now, they don't have to court us, don't have to marry us, all they have to do is screw us, leave us with their babies, and a broken heart. What is that old saying? Open a woman's legs and her heart falls out. Well, as liberated as I think many of the women on here are, there are still a greater number looking for LTR's. And I don't think they are going to find it by being sexually promiscuous.
Sherry | |
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| Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 7/17/2008 9:17:54 PM | Stay away from old movies unless you want to live alone with the past.
Life is what you make it. If you want romance/courship having a romantic attitude would be my first suggestion. | |
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| Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 7/17/2008 9:41:54 PM | | I am not sure what you mean by these words, but it doesn't feel any different to me than it ever did, except maybe I feel a bit more confident. It is not only the fellers that want to get nekkid early on, I can assure you. I, too, think something is lost when two people jump into a relationship too fast. Fast forward may work on a boring movie but I don't think it helps a relationship one bit. | |
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| Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 7/17/2008 9:49:17 PM | | I saw romance and courtship in a handbasket heading towards hell. Flowers and candy and moonlight are nice, but I'd rather have a guy who can fix a broken toilet anyday, if given a choice. | |
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| Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 7/17/2008 11:06:47 PM | Maybe it's just me, lol!, but being in the midst of the absolutely *most* romantic relationship I've ever been in, I promise you, the concept ain't dead. . . . Maybe it takes *both* peeps wanting it as well as each other, and a willingness to take the time to really expose their souls to each other before just exposing their nekkid bodies (and mind you I have not one single thing against nekkid bodies. . . ). Or mebbe one or two Taurus males is about all one healthy hearted lady can take in a life time?
But ya, I will have to say I do find myself cleaning up my language around him ~smile~
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| Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 7/18/2008 12:50:09 AM | > Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Feminism killed it. And even though the feminists were only a tiny percentage of the population, other women amazingly just sat around passively and let them wreak their havoc. Yup, if you want romance, fiction and fantasy are your best bet, though practicing The Golden Rule might be a good way to go, too.
"If liberation means the absence of unavoidable obligation, women's liberation has backfired. It is men who have been liberated. They need not be husbands or fathers to assure themselves of social status. . .They are not required to support women and children for life. They may experience transient social and sexual variety with a range of partners. The contemporary nuptial scene may be problematic or seem arduous to men and hence less likely to appeal to them..."
- Lionel Tiger
"There are more never-married men over the age of 40 in the US than the entire population of New Zealand. The number of never-married men in their 30s has more than doubled in the past decade. The percentage of men who have never been married has risen from 25% in 1960 to 31% in 1996. The percentage of men who are single has risen steadily from 31% in 1960 to 42% in 1996. If this were all due to the choices of women, then why have we heard for the past 20 years [30+ years now] the uninterrupted laments of women that "men won't make commitments". . .these men are free in a way that no group of people has ever been."
- zed the zen priest
Romance was just a game anyway, and since women uniformly hate games, you'd think they'd be glad it's been done away with.
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| Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 7/18/2008 6:39:27 AM | It seems that some peeps didn't understand me (that is not surprising). I KNOW that romance is in part due to ME.....I am romantic, candles, flowers, notes, etc., etc..........I'd like to find a man who resonates with ME...my values, etc.......as for "earning it"---sex, etc.....
That was never in my thoughts; it had to do with being taught morality....I am coming from a different place than a non-christian (no, don't yell at me; not judging); simply in a different place; those morals and values don't change with time for me.
I was never a feminist in the bra-burning, stereotyical sense. I always believed that women were equal to men; it wasn't an issue for me; I pulled myself up by my bootstraps and joined the army and have been making a difference ever since.
I am a romantic at heart, so swearing (I do it, LOL), bad manners, crudeness, in your face stuff in movies (violent stuff) turns me OFF.
So until I meet a man who interests me, I will hold on to my romantic self and dreams. | |
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| Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 7/18/2008 6:52:19 AM | Rossall,
Bless your heart. There are alot of women that are of a more conservative vain, who still like to cook, give massages, make their man feel like a king, take the traditional role. But we don`t have that choice any more. Whether we burned our bra or not, our "liberation" has given men free reign to devolve for the most part ,into the carnal selfish sex driven dogs that they profess is their right to heritage by the Darwinian law.
Finding an above board man who actually is able to care for a woman is a grand feat indeed. For myself, as much as I tryand try, all I meet is sex driven users---and to be
sure, many are sitting in the front aisle of Church on Sunday, just for insurance with their Maker , in betweeen their weekly bouts of debouchery.
Good luck to you in your very difficult quest. I have grown very weary of the whole journey, and am about to resign myself to the ranks of the Red Hat brigade.
God Bless | |
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| Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 7/18/2008 6:58:28 AM | I agree with WaywardSeeker. It doesn't seem any different to me, except that we all should be more confident and more secure in who we are, by now. I still expect the romance/courtship thing. I have been known to jump into relationships, because I believe in love at first sight, but that doesn't mean no romance or courtship.
That doesn't end. That is not just for the beginning of a relationship, but should endure for the duration. I actually hold out for that romance and courtship. That's what it's all about. Otherwise, I could (as could most women here) have a fling just for sex anytime. Romance and courtship is alive and well, and will be in the next man in my life, the same as it has been for all (or most) in the past.   | |
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| Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 7/18/2008 7:07:05 AM | Curls,
As like most of us, there are a myriad of suitors more than willing to make their feeble attempt to seduce us into their beds. That is not the issue here. What we are talking about is finding a man of substance that really genuinely has the ability to care for a partner, to possibly bond, create something a bit deeper.
I spent years cooking delicious meals, lighting candle, buying massage oils, making sure I had the "right"****ail for him, the "right" music, the "right" sexy dress, the hair , the
body, the whole deal. But in the end, what was it all about? Sorry to be crude but a good fvck, an overnight companion and then back to my own world because he just can`t be bothered by a realtionship. And if he did want one, it was on his terms, usually on my buck. Such is life for the "liberated" woman.
If that is what you want, go for it. It will be good for a few sh!ts and giggles but tht is about it. Certainly don`t ever expect any kind of loyalty or care from the majority of
men. | |
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