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| "law of attraction"
Posted: 7/18/2008 5:26:40 PM | /rant
Alright so my problem with the whole law of attraction.
So I think we can all agree that everyone wants happiness or to become stronger out of life. Or that is the general goal to get out of life. So along comes the "law of attraction" sounds pretty cool, gives you chills and tingles.
I am not saying that there isn't some underlying truth or things we don't understand about this, but I am saying that people do not know what will make them stronger or happy.
No one does! So how arrogant and ignorant is it to sit and "attract" certain objects, events, people etc into your life when you do not know what actual events or things will give you true happiness?
Surely one could attract money, a partner and all these things our society has termed good, but is it actually good for you?And even if we all agreed on the same idea does not make it correct. So attracting anything conciously (positive or negative) with intent is arrogant because no one knows what will really make them happy or stronger in life.
/endrant | |
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/18/2008 5:33:36 PM | What a stupid, useless, and impractical theory.
If someone ran a business this way they would just sit around and do nothing because it is impossible to be 100% sure that anything you do will end up being the right thing for the business. Guess what would happen to the business????
The idea of trying to make decisions that will result in your long term happiness is intelligent, and it is not arrogant at all. Of course you wont always be right, but it’s better than nothing. | |
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/18/2008 5:41:02 PM |
What a stupid, useless, and impractical theory.
If someone ran a business this way they would just sit around and do nothing because it is impossible to be 100% sure that anything you do will end up being the right thing for the business. Guess what would happen to the business????
The idea of trying to make decisions that will result in your long term happiness is intelligent, and it is not arrogant at all. Of course you wont always be right, but it’s better than nothing.
Let me first address the example you gave,
The way you sustain a business is not the way you live life, what a stupid, useless impractical theory.
Secondly,
Where is the logic in that? So better to play a game of life roulette and hope that your intent is on the same course as what will make you happy? Well guess what you don't know what will make you happy, so assuming a new car, winning the lottery and marrying a attractive rock star will make your life happy or fulfilling is arrogant. | |
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/18/2008 6:11:14 PM |
Where is the logic in that? So better to play a game of life roulette and hope that your intent is on the same course as what will make you happy? Well guess what you don't know what will make you happy, so assuming a new car, winning the lottery and marrying a attractive rock star will make your life happy or fulfilling is arrogant.
Umm, who said anything about gambling?? I don’t think there is very much change of gambling making anyone happy. It has more chance of making you miserable. And about the new car, lottery, and attractive rock start…yeah I think all that would contribute to the happiness of lots of people. Of course it would. It’s just a matter of finding away to obtain it all (having said that, it’s not my thing, particularly the rock star).
The way you sustain a business is not the way you live life, what a stupid, useless impractical theory.
It is the same concept!!! The concept is making decisions that you BELIVE will lead to the desired end result. Of course you don’t KNOW what will lead to the desired end result, but you have to guess!!! It’s the best you can do. Refusing to guess and just accepting whatever comes (or not trying to “attract certain objects, events, people etc into your life” as you put it) is stupid. | |
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/18/2008 6:47:26 PM | First let's look at the whole Law of Attraction history. Recently a book came on the market called the Secret. It was backed by Oprah and the world took it as though it was holy.
Through one hell of a marketing scheme the author has sold millions of copies and so she can certainly say that the law of attraction has worked for her LOLOLOL what this woman did was capitalize on peoples stupidity, sorry for the judgement but the truth is that one must have a mind of a 2 year old to buy into this kind BS.
We still have to work hard the last time I checked for anything that we want to achieve in life.
The sad part is that parts of the theory contain a grain of truth but it is obscured by the ignorance of the author who seems to know very little about what she is saying and a hell of a lot more about how to market herself and her snake oil;-)
No book will beat it anytime soon......and that says a lot about just how greedy and gullible many people are.
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/18/2008 9:42:44 PM | OP
I think there is a saying that summarizes your rant: Be careful what you wish for.
I agree with the other poster that life requires a certain amount of planning, like in a business, to ensure that complete failure doesn't ensue, but I know what you mean, too: people believe that they can will things into their lives that they think will give them happiness, when as a society, it's really unclear what brings true fulfillment into a life. I guess if it keeps someone out of trouble and keeps them hopeful then it's not so bad. My bet is that they'll be happier dreaming about these things than acquiring them | |
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/18/2008 11:53:40 PM | From a psychological point of view the book has some sense. Changing your thinking about stuff and what your mind focuses on changes your life.
Yet I agree that dosen't mean things will magically come to you.
Yet I have had experiences where I thought of something and then it happens or I think of something and then see it later that day.
Though I think really it's more if you beleive you actually have something your subconcious mind starts to help you initiate behaviour that will help you get it. Not that what you think creates reality. | |
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/19/2008 3:47:12 AM | I look at things differently. I know a lot of people who say they wished they were rich. All they do is bet on the lottery. I know other people who say they want to be rich, and they start their own businesses. They have to do lots of research, put a lot ot time, effort, and planning into their business. But provided they do what everyone knows they need to, they are usually successful. The majority of businesses are reported to fail due to bad planning and/or lack of effort or time into getting the business off the ground.
The same goes for dating. The majority of successful ex-players on POF reported that they had to ask out at least 5 women for one to agree to a date, in their playing days, and in addition, had to work out and dress well, on top.
So to my mind, there is a difference between wanting and wishing. Wishing is when you would like something will happen, but it's not down to you. You believe that it's out of your control. Wanting is when you would like something will happen, and it's mostly dependent on whether or not you are willing to do what is needed.
I believe that the Law of Attraction says that YOU have the power to "attract" things, that it is in your control. So you stop wishing things to happen, and you start wanting things to happen. You stop finding excuses as to how you could not have got that thing, and you start saying that you could have done something about it. So you accept that you have to do what is needed. You accept that there are only 2 alternatives:
1) Do what is needed
2) Stop pretending to desire things you aren't really willing to work for.
So you choose what you want.
What you want, you do what is needed to get it.
What you are not willing to work for, you acknowledge that it cannot be that important to you, and you decide that you'd rather not have it.
So you work for everything you want, and you get it, and whatever you don't work for, you don't want.
So you get everything you want.
Even if there is something you want, and you work for it, and you still don't get it, you get realistic about it. You realise that what you want is not THAT job but to be happy and successful in your work, so you keep trying for jobs that will make you happy and successful, until you find one that does. You realise that what you want is not THAT woman, or even that TYPE of woman, but a relationship that will make you happy in your life. So you stop looking for "the one", or the hot girl next door. "The one" is the one that makes you happy. So you look for a woman who makes you happy, and you know that she IS "the one", because if she wasn't, she wouldn't make you happy.
Believing in the Law of Attraction makes you believe that your life is mostly under your control, and that it is a practical attitude, hard work and an awareness that most of our desires are an illusion that REALLY gets you what you want. That change in attitude is 90% of what gets you what you want.
Most people don't have that attitude. If the Law of Attraction changes your world-view to be reasonable about life, then it's worth it. | |
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/19/2008 7:33:44 AM |
truth is that one must have a mind of a 2 year old to buy into this kind BS.
Other big sellers in the world include the bible, un-interesting facts about famous people, and un-interesting made-up stories about other peoples lives like 'Home and Away'.
Yes, most of the world has "the mind of a 2 year old" as you put it.
I bet half these people who preach useless BS (religious leaders, authors of stupid books, etc) don’t even believe what they say. Even if they do believe it, you have to remember they are the one writing the book, not the one buying it, and by the sounds of it this lady has done very well for herself!! I’m not sure very many people are in position to criticize!! | |
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/19/2008 7:36:27 AM | "Believing in the Law of Attraction makes you believe that your life is mostly under your control, and that it is a practical attitude, hard work and an awareness that most of our desires are an illusion that REALLY gets you what you want. That change in attitude is 90% of what gets you what you want."
Exactly it's all psychological. It dosen't have to be mystical to help people it just has to help them learn how to think in a postive way. Or at the very least in a way that helps them conduct themselves in a more successful way. Oh and I think you put it in a very good way that helps me to hold it in a better perspective.
Granted it's something everyone should know but emotion has a lot to do with things. | |
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/19/2008 9:30:17 AM |
I believe that the Law of Attraction says that YOU have the power to "attract" things, that it is in your control. So you stop wishing things to happen, and you start wanting things to happen. You stop finding excuses as to how you could not have got that thing, and you start saying that you could have done something about it. So you accept that you have to do what is needed. You accept that there are only 2 alternatives:
1) Do what is needed
2) Stop pretending to desire things you aren't really willing to work for.
The Law of Attraction as presented by The Secret isn't really about DOING anything. The claim is that by some magical process rooted in quantum physics, merely THINKING about things causes them to become true.
If you worry about being late for work, the universe will cause a traffic jam. If you think you don't have cancer, you don't. | |
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/19/2008 1:26:16 PM |
If you worry about being late for work, the universe will cause a traffic jam. If you think you don't have cancer, you don't.
Better yet, if a whole country suffers from a disaster, well, it was the fault of their collective subconscious which 'attracted' disaster to them.
I asked an author of an 'attraction' book how a toddler could 'attract' abuse. He had a hard time answering me. Imagine that! | |
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/19/2008 11:04:34 PM |
The Law of Attraction as presented by The Secret isn't really about DOING anything. The claim is that by some magical process rooted in quantum physics, merely THINKING about things causes them to become true.
If you worry about being late for work, the universe will cause a traffic jam. If you think you don't have cancer, you don't. I understand that. However, that is NOT what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about the Law of Attraction making you do anything. I'm talking about increasing your self-esteem, and you making efforts so naturally that you think you're doing nothing, and everything is coming to you.
I discovered that when I believed that things wouldn't go my way, then I found it a tremendous effort to do even the slightest thing to help my situation. However, whenever I've thought that things were going my way, my attitude completely changed, and I started making lots of effort naturally without even being aware that I was making effort. I've found that quite a few people responded similarly about things they used to think they were rubbish at, and then decided that things were going to go their way in that thing. I've seen it work in dating, in academics, and in job-hunting.
Just saying what I've seen and experienced. | |
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/20/2008 11:10:56 AM |
However, whenever I've thought that things were going my way, my attitude completely changed, and I started making lots of effort naturally without even being aware that I was making effort. I've found that quite a few people responded similarly about things they used to think they were rubbish at, and then decided that things were going to go their way in that thing.
And that's all about psychology, rather than any 'attraction' law. Read up on Albert Bandura and 'self-efficacy'. Too bad he didn't think to write a book, call it 'The Secret' and make a kazillion bucks because people like him - who unravel the mysteries of the human brain for our better understanding - deserve it. | |
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/20/2008 11:27:54 AM | Soooo,,,,
Interesting reading, these posts.
My opinion? It goes back to what my friends in the world of psychiatry refer to as this---
Perception is Reality.
Whether it be attraction or the "laws" thereof (not sure that's a good word to attach to the idea), or attainment of self-determined goals.
Thanks for the mind opening! | |
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/20/2008 11:32:21 AM | | The OP seems to have disappeared, but his original rant included whether people know what would make them happy. We seem to have gotten off track | |
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/20/2008 12:22:11 PM | RE msg 14 by Merrylass:
Too bad he didn't think to write a book, call it 'The Secret' and make a kazillion bucks because people like him - who unravel the mysteries of the human brain for our better understanding - deserve it. Bundera would have been the first person to tell you that if he was self-efficacious, HE WOULDN'T NEED A KAZILLION BUCKS! If he wanted something, he'd get it. So he doesn't need a kazillion bucks. But if he did want a kazillion bucks, he would get it, and he wouldn't need to write a book like The Secret to get it in the first place.
And that's all about psychology, rather than any 'attraction' law. Read up on Albert Bandura and 'self-efficacy'. I quite agree. What Bundera said, was that people who are self-efficacious, are people who believe that their lives ARE IN THEIR HANDS! They believe they can "make things happen". They believe they really CAN attract good things just by believing it. They are far more motivated as a result, and they really do make things happen. They get the guy/girl of their dreams. They get their dream job. They get what they want out of life, BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THEY CAN.
What Bundera really said, was that successful people believe in things like the Law of Attraction, and unsuccessful people do not.
THAT is what you have to take from Bundera. If you DON'T believe in things like the Law of Attraction, then you're not self-efficacious in the first place, and you won't succeed anyway. So why not believe in it anyway? Why not be successful? Why not have everything you want?
I suggest that you read the biographies of really successful people. You'll find they all say the same thing: You have to believe you can make things happen, to make things happen, and if you don't believe you don't believe you can make things happen, they won't, because you'll give up at the first hurdle.
But thanks for the info. It re-affirms what I've stated. | |
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/20/2008 12:43:44 PM |
successful people believe in things like the Law of Attraction, and unsuccessful people do not
Scorpio, that would be fine if the 'law of attraction' didn't also preach that the bad things that happen to you have been attracted to you by your thinking, whether consciously or subconsciously. That's hogwash, and no professional would make such a ridiculous claim. | |
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/20/2008 3:05:53 PM | RE msg 18 by Merrylass:
Scorpio, that would be fine if the 'law of attraction' didn't also preach that the bad things that happen to you have been attracted to you by your thinking, whether consciously or subconsciously. That's hogwash, and no professional would make such a ridiculous claim. Professionals HAVE told me that, repeatedly. Last year, I attended group therapy. The social construct therapist who ran the group said that I ATTRACTED conflict, due to my attitude that I expected that I would encounter conflict from some people. He said that if I wanted to stop getting into conflict, that I had to actively develop an attitude that I attracted non-conflict. The rest of the group completely endorsed his opinion. I thought he was off his rocker. However, in the end, I decided to try what he was recommending for at least a month and see what happened. I was amazed to find that a lot of conflicts disappeared, and people who I previously thought were very aggressive and condescending became a lot easier to get on with. They even said that I was really a great person to hang out with.
I am well aware that I had to DO things to make this happen. But by taking a change in attitude, I did change my behaviour on a subconscious level.
That is what psychology DOESN'T point out. 90% of our communication is sub-verbal, and so is also subconscious. The behaviour of our subconscious is vastly affected by our attitudes to life. So merely by changing our attitude, we can change 90% of our communication. But changing our conscious behaviour will only change 10% of our communication and 90% of our life will remain unchanged. | |
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/21/2008 12:04:16 PM | I’m with Scorp on this one…. Been there, done that, seen it too!!!! I think the key lies in our ability to discern what we truly desire. For me it is contentment. I believe I can only be truly content if I am fair, honest and kind. I have control over my reaction and choose to be fair, honest and kind. I also choose to believe that others will recognize my intention though tone and body language. Sometimes I am lacking in knowledge, but when I am in error, it gives me joy to explore a different point of view, and hence grow to be a better person.
I know many people think I am an odd duck, as I tend to approach things in my own fashion. For instance, I have performed a spell or two over the years. One spell was to help me get a handle on my finances. On the full moon I hung a grapefruit rind above my front door, and once a day as the moon waned I stuck a pin in the rind and visualized one of my financial challenges dissipating. Then on the new moon I buried the rind in the west of my property and chanted an affirmation to Venus. My financial situation began to improve. Do I think it was magic? Of course not!!! I was programming myself to be more aware of financial concerns.
The “law of attraction” is not a new concept. It is the power of positive thinking. “The Secret” is just a new way to present an age old, tried and true philosophy. At least that is how I choose to see it.
Smiles everyone. | |
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/21/2008 3:25:03 PM | So merely by changing our attitude, we can change 90% of our communication. But changing our conscious behaviour will only change 10% of our communication and 90% of our life will remain unchanged.
I for one, would like to see the citation(s) that on this assertion. 90% of communication is controlled by attitudes? I think not. There is no doubt that attitudes play a central role in beliefs which shape communication, but certainly not 90%.
If you are parroting your therapist, well, I would question his/her assertions. My guess is he/she read that crap on the "90% attitude" website which is a marketing site filled with bullshyt trying to get people to join a pyramid game. Supported by their junk books such as "Mind Mastery Mental Conditioning" it is a crap catchphrase devoid of any factual or scientific proof.
By definition an attitude is directed at an object. Much of communication is non-object based such as reasoning (to discuss issues, concepts), decision making (to ask instrumental questions leading to a choice), learning (communicating factual knowledge, skills, abilities). None of these are attitude based yet communicate verbal and non-verbal responses or behaviors.
I think you're using attitude in the colloquial or junk science sense. And my communicated response to you is not based on attitude, it is based on cognition ...i.e., knowledge and reasoning. | |
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/21/2008 8:09:56 PM |
I am not saying that there isn't some underlying truth or things we don't understand about this, but I am saying that people do not know what will make them stronger or happy.
No one does! So how arrogant and ignorant is it to sit and "attract" certain objects, events, people etc into your life when you do not know what actual events or things will give you true happiness?
Surely one could attract money, a partner and all these things our society has termed good, but is it actually good for you?And even if we all agreed on the same idea does not make it correct. So attracting anything conciously (positive or negative) with intent is arrogant because no one knows what will really make them happy or stronger in life.
This is what the OP posted, but no one has said anything about this comment, which might be interesting to discuss.
Does anyone really know what brings happiness and do we really gain as individuals to spend time trying to attract what society deems would make us happy?
I still maintain that we are happiness pursuing dreams rather than attaining them. Any takers on that philosophy? | |
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/21/2008 10:10:03 PM | I think the "law of attraction" as proposed by "the Secret" (movie) is bull.
Think of money, wish for it, and you'll get a check in the mail ? I doubt it.
Some things come true if it stays on your mind, and you work for it, but don't expect free hand outs and to live in heaven just because you want to. | |
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/22/2008 3:03:29 AM | Well I know what makes me happy. I have no doubt about that. All I need is love and to keep working on my goals and dreams.
I'll run you my story real quick.
I got the Law of Attraction Audio. Listened to the mp3s. The one I got has a women who claims she is speaking from a spirit inside her. She laughs a couple times while doing this in a way that makes me thinking she messed up and they didn't edit that out. So anyway, I took it all with a grain of salt and felt that it's more of the positive thinking aspect that helps you. None the less I kept up trying to stay positive and all that.
My life got better last year, a lot better! I ended up getting a lot of money by bettering my life and taking good paths. I ended up with enough money to buy a car using cash if I wanted. I know, sounds crazy but it happened.
I was very happy, but I was still lonely because I was single. I know they say money can't buy you happiness but I was very happy because I felt secure and had enough money to work on my record label.
So I met a girl. I thought she was really nice. Cute. But she barely had a job in the last 3 years, spent every dollar she got, failed her GED 3 times, and slept on a mattress on the floor of her parents house. I felt like I had to help her. Ended up going thru over $2k with her. She dumped me on a text after draining me a bit. Broke my heart. Maybe I hadn't kept up the positive thinking and Law of Attraction stuff? I sure blew by a bunch of red flags because I didn't want to be alone again.
Anyway I f'ed things up.
Single, trying to stay positive and thinking about the Law of Attraction thing. But I get depressed a lot. People who I wanted to think were my friends, weren't. I went thru money. I still got some left I'm trying not to touch unless it's to put into one of my releases.
Life is very hard and I feel like I let myself down with stupid mistakes. I've always had a tough life due to a horrible childhood. Most the girls I meet don't want someone who has had an abused childhood like mine.
Anyway that's my story. Was it the Law of Attraction that made me have an awesome year last year and a second chance at life with enough money to make a new life? You be the judge. Positive thinking definitely helped. | |
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| law of attraction
Posted: 7/22/2008 6:43:47 AM | RE msg 21 by NoseyNeighbor:
So merely by changing our attitude, we can change 90% of our communication. But changing our conscious behaviour will only change 10% of our communication and 90% of our life will remain unchanged. I for one, would like to see the citation(s) that on this assertion.
90% of communication is controlled by attitudes? I think not. There is no doubt that attitudes play a central role in beliefs which shape communication, but certainly not 90%. If a man thinks that the police unfairly search him all the time, and always assume that he's broken the law, then he's going to be on the defensive whenever a policeman talks to him. The policeman is going to wonder why he is on the defensive. Obviously the man must be have something that makes him worried about talking to the police. So there is a concern that he's committed a crime. So the man will be searched.
People react to you according to cues. Those cues are observed all the time, way before you speak to the person. How you hold yourself, the clothes you choose to wear, all speak volumes about you. Those are reflected by your attitudes.
But you already know that, don't you?
If you are parroting your therapist, well, I would question his/her assertions. My guess is he/she read that crap on the "90% attitude" website which is a marketing site filled with bullshyt trying to get people to join a pyramid game. Supported by their junk books such as "Mind Mastery Mental Conditioning" it is a crap catchphrase devoid of any factual or scientific proof. I'm sure that you are aware that when you parrot someone, you use terms and jargon, like "citation", and "assertion", without anything that shows relevant consideration of the speaker's information. You can clearly see from my profile that I am from the UK, where most people who attend therapy are seen by a medical professional with several years training. My "therapist" is a social construct therapist, who has over 30 years experience of working withing the National Health System, with several areas of experience. His experience qualifies him to write the books that therapists read.
Now, anyone with an ounce of brains and who knows about therapy, knows that the UK doesn't have the same attitude to therapy as in the USA, and we don't have lots of private therapists with little experience. That leaves me with 2 options:
1) You know this, and you are deliberately trying to mislead people
2) You don't this, because you don't know about the therapeutic field, because your knowledge comes from junk books,
There is an old saying: "He who criticises, criticises about his own faults". If anyone is parotting, it's you.
By definition an attitude is directed at an object. Much of communication is non-object based such as reasoning (to discuss issues, concepts), decision making (to ask instrumental questions leading to a choice), learning (communicating factual knowledge, skills, abilities). None of these are attitude based yet communicate verbal and non-verbal responses or behaviors.
* S: (n) attitude, mental attitude (a complex mental state involving beliefs and feelings and values and dispositions to act in certain ways) "he had the attitude that work was fun"
* S: (n) position, posture, attitude (the arrangement of the body and its limbs) "he assumed an attitude of surrender"
* S: (n) attitude (a theatrical pose created for effect) "the actor struck just the right attitude"
* S: (n) attitude (position of aircraft or spacecraft relative to a frame of reference (the horizon or direction of motion))
http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=attitude
I think I'll trust Princeton on this one.
Attitude, as in attitudinal jets, is directed at an object.
Communication involves talking to someone else. You cannot communicate, if you talk to 2 people in English, and one doesn't understand English. So communication has to be directed at the listener, the object. So communication HAS to be subjective.
How can you have missed such a simple point?
I think you're using attitude in the colloquial or junk science sense. And my communicated response to you is not based on attitude, it is based on cognition ...i.e., knowledge and reasoning. I think you're confusing the way attitude is used in aerodynamics with the way it is used in general discussion relevant to communication. Your response is very different in style from plenty of others who use a very high level of cognition. Your choice of words and method of expression implies a general belief that anyone who expresses a belief in the Law of Attraction is a simpleton, as evidenced by your claim that my therapist gets his information from junk books, when the evidence you have shows you the exact reverse. You've never stated a single citation about studies to disprove the phenomena, and yet you expect that everyone accept your claims as true without any scientific data whatsoever. That is the reverse of scientific proof.
So your post tells me far more about what you think, than about the Law of Attraction. That tells me that your post is far more subjective than objective. So if I would say anything about your post, it implies to me that a lot of communication is extremely subjective. | |
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