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Show ALL Forums  > Religion  > Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.      Home login  
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 _Icon_
Joined: 5/18/2008
Msg: 1
Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.Page 1 of 2    (1, 2)
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/07/18/pope.australia.sorry/index.html

I'm not Catholic. I was always a fan of John Paul, however. I just think he was in tune. Honestly, I haven't paid much attention to Benedict, he is simply not as charismatic but this grabbed my attention. I'd like to hear other people's opinions. Thanks.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 2
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Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/19/2008 4:19:16 AM
This is amazing. I've seen many complaints on POF, saying that the pope should apologise for the sexual abuses perpetrated by Catholic priests. Now he's done it. He's apologised. This is to be commended.
 bigshrek
Joined: 11/15/2007
Msg: 3
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Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/19/2008 6:10:15 AM
Two priests are walking down the street and a small child is thrown between them...they fight it out, but then the winner has to take on Michael Jackson...

Nothing wrong with the clergy that a good inqusition couldn't fix...
 NERO1
Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 4
Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/19/2008 6:27:11 AM
I agree with the 2nd post here. It's to be commended, whether one likes the current pope or not. I've been saying they should make some sort of official apology for years now. It's more than the former pope JPII did that's for sure (in fact some have accused him of exasperating the problem because one American cardinal from Boston who was guilty of knowingly shuffling around notoriously abusive priests was starting to look like he might face some sort of legal problems in America.......until he was promptly whisked away to live happily ever after in Vatican City...). I think Benedict's move here is very positive. What else can be done about it now, besides recognizing it, admitting it, being more proactive about it in the future, and apologizing about it publicly?
 rockondon
Joined: 2/21/2007
Msg: 5
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Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/19/2008 8:05:05 AM
If clergy sex offenders are still allowed to maintain their priesthood, the apology is weak.

Its like saying I'm sorry for the abuse my priests have done...I'm gonna make sure they keep doing it though.
 Raveninns
Joined: 7/19/2005
Msg: 6
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Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/19/2008 8:22:25 AM

What else can be done about it now, besides recognizing it, admitting it, being more proactive about it in the future, and apologizing about it publicly?


Uh, he could make a specific apology to the Native People of Canada. he could start selling off some of the vatican riches to pay for restitution.


If clergy sex offenders are still allowed to maintain their priesthood, the apology is weak.

Its like saying I'm sorry for the abuse my priests have done...I'm gonna make sure they keep doing it though


Yup. Precisely. Til we see this happening, it's just a load of baloney, and not the good kind either.

Raven
 NERO1
Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 7
Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/19/2008 8:24:09 AM
QUOTE: Uh, he could make a specific apology to the Native People of Canada.

^^ For what offense(s)??
Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/19/2008 8:45:11 AM
If clergy sex offenders are still allowed to maintain their priesthood, the apology is weak.


Aren't paedophile Priests routinely defrocked? If they aren't, they ought to be, only not literally 'cause they might enjoy it too much.

I wonder if the Pope could do even more than Pontificate on the subject by taking radical steps to encourage normal sexual behaviour among the Priesthood and revising the celibacy/ no marrieds/ men only rules?

Maybe this new thinking could even encompass making his successor a female, like perhaps Madonna for instance, (I believe she's a Catholic) rather than some old codger on his last legs.

Hmm...she'd look good wearing a mitre..
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 9
Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/19/2008 11:35:14 AM

Aren't paedophile Priests routinely defrocked?


No, they are routinely sent to different parishes. It's only after they're convicted that the Church defrocks them. The bishops and cardinals responsible for hiding these crimes get promotions to the Vatican.
 SingleLadyVA
Joined: 4/29/2008
Msg: 10
Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/19/2008 12:43:56 PM
I can apologize for what the Catholic Clergy do as well as the Pope. Would mean the same thing...The one's to apologize are the one's who did the crimes...When it's all said and done, if the guilty one's dont ask for it ..they will not be forgiven for it...According to scripture, which that perticular church doesnt want their parishoners to become knowledgeable about...Those men and surely there are nun's who have also, should stand before a court and be proven guilty...Then thrown into prision like the rest of the sickos...Then the family should sue the Pope and his cronies for their role play in allowing such activities to continue in their power...So far, all I've seen is alot of running and hiding like the devil does...Clean up your act, cowards !!!
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 11
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Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/19/2008 10:57:05 PM

If clergy sex offenders are still allowed to maintain their priesthood, the apology is weak.

Its like saying I'm sorry for the abuse my priests have done...I'm gonna make sure they keep doing it though.
AFAIK, they aren't allowed to maintain their priesthood, and that it doesn't happen any more with Catholic priests than with any other group. If you don't want to acknowledge even an apology, I understand that. I know people who want all Arabs to die because of the terrorist actions of a few Islamic extremists, and they would feel the same. I've heard similar things from Muslims.

However, you would be closing any possible dialogue by taking that approach. That would make me all the more defensive. I believe that it would make the Church inclined to never give any hint that any priests are sex offenders, by doing everything it could to silence the abused, and doing everything it could to avoid revealing the truth, by never taking these priests out of office.

So I would not be inclined to take your approach. It seems to just make things far worse, IMHO.
 Raveninns
Joined: 7/19/2005
Msg: 12
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Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/20/2008 3:30:42 AM

QUOTE: Uh, he could make a specific apology to the Native People of Canada.

^^ For what offense(s)??


Hmmm, without trying to hijack this thread, bottom line, the Canadian government tried on three occasions to wipe out the "Indian problem". To carry out their plan, they used and paid various religious denominations to institute the Residential School system for Native children in an attempt to assimilate them. The RC church was the most prevalent; 80% of the schools were run by them. Widespread claims of child sexual abuse is rampant. When the abuse became so bad that even the church could not stand it, they simply moved the priests to another school to continue their terror.

To this day, all denominations have accepted responsibility, made apologies and restitution to their victims except the RC church.

There are a whole bunch of threads about this on POF.

...in answer to your question....

Raven
 jasman123
Joined: 6/1/2008
Msg: 13
Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/20/2008 8:09:25 AM
I think the catholic priest need to apologize as well. My belief, God will forgives sin if confessed and forgiveness is ask.
 NERO1
Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 14
Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/20/2008 9:48:44 AM
QUOTE: To carry out their plan, they used and paid various religious denominations to institute the Residential School system for Native children in an attempt to assimilate them. The RC church was the most prevalent; 80% of the schools were run by them.

^^ Never heard of the residential schooling program up there. Destruction through assimilation however....... yes, well, certainly that's no different than the general pattern I suppose. For instance after the Latin conquest of the central and south Americas and the Caribbean, etc. That's why Amerindians down there are no longer tearing out beating hearts upon stepped pyramids and worshipping the Indian mother goddess Tonantzin....instead today she has the form of the Our Lady of Guadelupe. See the Mexican film "La Otra Conquista (The Other Conquest)". Deals very much with destruction through forced assimiliation. DNA (male DNA....), language, culture, and finally spirituality. The conquest was (virtually) complete. I suppose in this respect apologies are owed to many more than just the Canadian Native peoples...
 _Icon_
Joined: 5/18/2008
Msg: 15
Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/20/2008 11:02:52 AM
There is a conquered people in every nations past.

I think the Pope's apology was a step in the right direction and should be ackowledged and used as a foundation to build upon. Got to start somewhere.
 Mystral13
Joined: 12/29/2007
Msg: 16
Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/20/2008 7:50:22 PM
If a person beats the daylights out of their partner - then gets all apologetic - then a week later, does it all again..... do you believe their apology was genuine?

The RC church has been sweeping this problem under the rug for far too many years - and has destroyed far too many lives for one single apology to hold any weight. When they start making some serious restitution to those whose lives have been destroyed..... when they start teaching some realistic sex education in their schools..... when they start defrocking the pedophile priests..... THEN I might take this apology a bit more seriously. Too little, too late - in my estimation.
 romanticoptimist
Joined: 10/1/2007
Msg: 17
Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/20/2008 8:44:37 PM
Like Raven, I don't want to hijack this thread either but the discussion about the Residential School System in Canada and the horrors it brought -- along with facts, stats, history, and links -- was discussed a few months back. I tried to search it, but I couldn't figure out how to search within threads. All I can figure out is how to search subject titles in the forum. If anyone knows how to search for key words in messages such as residential school system, you'll find the thread. If you do, could you past a link in here so people can follow it if they want to do so?
Thanks.
 evolving62
Joined: 12/29/2007
Msg: 18
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Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/21/2008 3:30:06 AM

I think the Pope's apology was a step in the right direction and should be ackowledged and used as a foundation to build upon. Got to start somewhere.


I agree.

Hopefully it will also create a realisation by the theistic population at large that it matters little what you're beliefs are. Abuse and empathy are products of the human species and will always be with us whether we believe in Yahweh, Zeus, Thor or no god at all.
 Csonka
Joined: 11/21/2004
Msg: 19
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Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/21/2008 6:29:52 PM
The Catholic Church through the confessional, has a good opportunity to stop such actions as sexual abuse, especially in the clergy.

I hope the victims can accept the Pope's apology. I feel he needed to say more, and according to the theme of the WYD he should have mentioned power to heal emotional scarrs and dishonour, and his justice and discipline and restoration...
 Ravenstar66
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 20
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Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/21/2008 6:46:09 PM
NOT GOOD ENOUGH

The day he actually holds those clergy accountable... in a court of law and within the Church, then justice will have been served. Words not followed by actions are just a waste of air.

Sorry, that's the way I see it.

Put your money where your mouth is or STFU.
 Danny Sherwood
Joined: 10/4/2007
Msg: 21
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Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/21/2008 7:00:09 PM
Right on, Raven!
 greg8001
Joined: 7/10/2008
Msg: 22
Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/21/2008 9:03:09 PM
While the apology is good, it is really only a first step in the healing and reconciliation for victims of sex abuse in the church itself. The church authorities protected abusers and tried to deal with the problem by inappropriate means such as moving abusing priests from one parish to another, which only gave them yet another opportunity to abuse the vulnerable in their care, instead of turning these perverts and criminals over to the authorities, as they should have done.

There are also other issues such as the troubled relationship between the church and native people.

I think the process of reconciliation will take place very slowly and will require decades, as well as better recognition and compensation to victims. Unfortunately, some in the higher parts of the church heirarchy still seem to hold on to the old view the matter can be handled internally inside the church, without being fully accountable to society.
 romanticoptimist
Joined: 10/1/2007
Msg: 23
Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/21/2008 9:10:43 PM
^^^^^^ Right on!

I do admire the Pope for making a public apology. Now I'd like to see the words translated into actions, hard though they may be.

The excuse that the abuse was hidden (and thus protected) to spare the "good name" of the Church actually had the opposite effect. Facing the problem, dealing with as a criminal matter, and publicly demonstrating it would not be tolerated would have avoided millions of tears and tens of thousands of broken hearts -- and souls. But it's still not too late to begin the reconstruction and reconciliation. And if it costs all their riches, it's a small price to pay to put things as right as they can be put.
 Yellow44
Joined: 4/26/2006
Msg: 24
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Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/21/2008 10:11:10 PM

What else can be done about it now, besides recognizing it, admitting it, being more proactive about it in the future, and apologizing about it publicly?


Several things could be done.

Defrocking offending priests that they have previously hidden away from scrutiny and submitting them to legal authorities to be charged with appropriate crimes.

One example of this would be the priests, who during the Rwandan genocide, raped many of the women who took refuge in their churches, sometimes with the assistance of nuns. And the priests who filled their churches with people seeking refuge, then when they were full, invited the Interahamwe in to slaughter everyone. Many of these priests were quietly spirited away to other African countries

It is also time for the church to grow up, to evolve and mature into a more whole and healthy organization. This should include:

Allowing priests to marry and develop and express their human sexual nature in a healthy, mature and maybe even a spiritual way, instead if denying this vital aspect of themselves and allowing it to possibly become distorted.

Allowing women to be ordained.

Accepting homosexuality as a divine aspect and creation and allowing gays and lesbians to be ordained and to express their sexuality in loving and healthy ways.

Psychological screening for all people attempting to become priests and nuns to insure that applicants aren’t trying to run from sexual or psycho pathology and attempting to deny this aspect of themselves by trying to take refuge in the church, hoping Jesus will heal them. Those deemed to be pathological would be denied entry and given therapy.

Ongoing psychotherapy as a requirement for their training as priests and nuns, to insure that they become whole, healthy, evolved human beings, who then, are even more capable of evolving spiritually and assisting their parishioners in this regard.

These actions would show that the church is ready to let go of ancient superstition, and become a spiritual organization relevant to today’s world.

And ultimately, on the part of those injured by the church, there needs to be acceptance of what happened, forgiveness and healing.
 NERO1
Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 25
Pope apologizes for clergy sex abuse.
Posted: 7/21/2008 10:27:57 PM
^^ Right. All of those suggested reforms will be made by the Vatican around the time D!ck Cheney is sighted marching in Code Pink anti-war protests and going down to Venezuela to pal around over dinner with Hugo Chavez.

No, in all seriousness though, to a certain extent I can agree with a couple of the suggestions, personally, but then on the other hand the institution is at least over a millenia-and-a-half old ... and if one accepts orthodox Roman Catholic dogma then it's right around an even 2K yrs old.

It's only, in any recent times, made one major set of changes (Vatican II). For it to change this radically is not only unrealistic but , to an extent perhaps undesirable. At what point is it best just to say, those who differ so seriously with it (even if baptized as an infant into it) can just leave on their own and not expect such a venerable and generally respected ancient institution to change according to their modern-day political wishes ?

If it were to institute all the changes you suggested it might as well just close its doors and dissolve completely and come back renamed the ..... the Latin Unitarian New Age Society, or something like that. As a person born into it and raised as a kid inside of it, but who no longer is 'practicing', I can say the best solution is simply to distance oneself or leave -- because the institution itself is like a giant hierarchical monolith (even if all individual priests and orders of course are not necessarily monolithic in personal opinions and interpretations sometimes). In general it doesn't move or change for anyone.

And all I'm saying is, to an extent, that's how I would expect it to be when dealing with such an ancient thing. Why should it really adulterate itself into something it so obviously isn't just to meet modern American left-wing standards ... it's not an American institution, despite having a large presence here by now, and (if pressed) it doesn't hide the fact that it's not a democratic institution either.
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