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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 10:33:40 AM | This is a fun one...
My ex called me about something, we're very good friends now, and I'm not sure what to tell her, looking for some objective advice...
Situation is this: She's been dating a guy for about 3 months, I know him personally, he's actually a really nice guy. He is a broker. Of late, I know his finances have been up and down with the market, etc. Basically she told me that he had used her credit card to cover a payment for car payment he was past due on without asking her. She found out about within like 24 hours and confronted him on it before he had said anything to her. Upon confonting him, he told her that he was too embarrassed to come to her and ask for help, and had already gotten cash the next day to pay her back, which I guess he did.
She told me they talked at length, he even called me about it in tears after they talked, and they had agreed to work through it because they both really care about each other a lot.
The problem is, she talked to her family as soon as it happened even before she talked to him, and now, of course, her family hates him and wants nothing to with him, which is understandable.
The sense I get is that while they have sought to work through and resolve the situation, the family is constantly calling and telling her not to be with him any more, and she doesn't know what to tell them.
I've talked to both of them, and I really feel sorry for them, it was such a dumb decision to make on many levels, and with family involved now, it puts a lot of pressure on the relationship.
I told her basically that she owns the relationship, and it is up to her if she wants to make it work, but I don't know what weight she puts on her family's input - I know they're close. She is not sure what to do, because she loved the way her family thought about him, especially as she had come from an abusive relationship previously, and I know he truly thinks the world of her and treats her as such.
He is at his breaking point, fearing losing her on top of the situation he found himself in financially and I'm worried frankly about him.
What is the opinion of the general public on this. | |
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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 10:40:04 AM | If they can talk about things and have worked out the problem to their own satisfaction, then they should stay together. She needs to tell her family that her decision is made (about staying together) and they should respect her decision. Maybe he should admit his mistake to the family and apologize for being underhanded about it. Maybe their attitudes will change if they see he's owning up to his mistake.
Krys | |
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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 10:41:55 AM | Honestly, it sorta depends. And this is actually a relationship I think you need to give your 2 cents on as well.
You know this guy. You know what type of person he is, and what his habits are. If you know this sort of behavior to be extremely out of character for him, you should probably speak up and let her know, so she can make a better informed decision. On the other hand, if this sort of thing has happened before (think about anything you've known him to do in the last few years), you should tell her that as well, so she can make an informed decision.
This whole situation isn't about what he did. It's about whether he'll do it again, and if he'll do something worse next time. If you have information to share regarding what he potentially may or may not do in the future, it's your obligation to step in and say something, as long as it will help her make the right decision. | |
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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 10:44:26 AM | They both screwed up tremendously, of course, but they do have a choice in how things go from here. If they'll put on their grown up panties and tell the parents they were wrong to involve them and can live with the fallout of their actions, and will not be doing such crazy stuff again, and can express that they've made their decision and it's final, then they will have done all they can. Sometimes, that has to be enough. Consequences always follow actions...this is theirs.
This doesn't mean that they don't/won't still have problems. She needs to figure out why she ran to her parents vs. all the other obvious options, and he needs to figure out why he felt the need to go behind her back and use her money without a discussion about it. Saying he was embarrassed doesn't cut it. Money and the lack thereof is real. Trust is real, and precious, too. Feeling embarrassed is, well, just a feeling. What does that really say about him? | |
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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 10:45:02 AM | | 3 months and he stole her CC to pay a bill. If that isn't an enormous red flag I don't know what would be. | |
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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 10:48:22 AM | In my opinion...
He made a daft mistake, under pressure (based on your account of his good character).
She over-reacted.
I think they should both say, "I'm sorry".
In this case she also needs to talk to her family and tell them that she misjudged the situation and misjudged him and she hopes they can understand that when she spoke to them first she was over-reacting and that whilst he did make a daft mistake, so did she in failing to trust him and that actually everything was fine and she feels really bad about the way she reacted.
It's a shame she went to her family so fast, but understandable -- when you are afraid to trust your own judgement due to an abusive relationship that your family have helped you heal from, it's natural that fear and shock in reaction to discovering what looks like a betrayal would send her running to the people who she knows for certain care deeply for her.
It may take time for her family to calm down and she may need to invest energy in showing them that she a) over-reacted and b) has rationally and logically looked at the facts and made a revised judgement with a cool head rather than caved in and accepted ill-treatment. She may need to insist that they allow her to trust her own judgement and take the risk of being wrong and to point out that if she can't do this, her life will never be her own -- all the while emphasising how grateful she is to know how much they care. Adding to this -- the relationship is only 3 months old so perhaps she should be a little more reserved in her judgements than she is and a little less eager to jump to either positive or negative conclusions -- this could be a useful lesson for her.
In time, with luck, one day, perhaps they'll be laughing about it. I hope so. It is so sad when one of the foolish errors that really were not ill-intentioned, angry or anything other than human failure to think things through properly under pressure cause relationships to be destroyed. | |
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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 10:49:19 AM | I would actually go to bat for this guy a thousand percent, and I know it is extremely out of character. He told me he went and got the money later that day, and his financial situation is improved even by this week. He thought he would be able to approach her, apologize and pay her back before she even noticed was the sense I got. But once she brought other people into it, it really spiralled.
As for her, I know she is really in love with him, and obviously this hurt her too, but they do both say they want to work it out, it's just the family is a big problem, mainly because she has made very poor mistakes in the past regarding her own personal lifestyle, and I know they're using this as yet one more expample of how she cannot be trusted with her own welfare type of thing.
I had suggested he offer to talk to the family members individually that were complaining if she was open to that. I know she has had several people who have met him tell her he deserves a second chance. It's just that the family obviously doesn't know anything about him and so I can see their position as well. | |
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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 10:50:36 AM | Three truly great posts. Started mine after FG. Regardless of the parental business, she needs to figure out whether this guy is a pinhead that will become a financial nightmare which from personal experience can be just as bad as the verbally and emotionally abusive boyfriend. I married one of each, not fun, and the financial nightmare was much like this guy, good as gold in every other way.
I can see how the world could have crowded in on him, particularly if the man is unaccustomed to being unable to pay a bill. He is also in the early stages of the relationship, really cares about her, and became afraid that if she found out there was anything "wrong" with him, she would bolt. This is someone with whom she should probably stay. She also did something stupid so if they agree to come to each other first, they can probably make a go of things.
Good suggestions all the way around including them both talking to the parents. Perhaps if he himself tells them he has never done something so stupid and that he cares about her so much he was afraid....They can at least have some respect for his owning up to things and also having the courage to face them without pretending nothing happened. | |
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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 10:58:44 AM | I don't think she understands how much her past behavior (alcoholism, loose lifestyle,etc.) has affected her family's opinion of her. Having known them, especially her Mom, they really do think that she is incapable of taking care of herself, even at 32 withouth their constant help, and they point to this as one more example.
I myself am curious about why she went to them so fast before even talking to him about it. If her relationship is so tense with them and they tend to give her such a hard time in general about her lifestyle, I just don't think that she should have thrown it all in like that so fast, but you can't reverse what's happened.
I really can't defend his actions either, other than to say that I know it was a high-pressure, unique situation for him, and I can totally understand not wanting to hook your wagon up to a financial nightmare, which I'm sure is their concern as well. | |
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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 11:01:45 AM | | Humm, I have to say I do feel empathy for your ex's situation. She probably regrets discussing the whole matter with her family, and not going directly to her man first. But regardless of feelings, this is a definite "WRONG" and signifies deeper problems going on here. Why couldn't he approach her with his financial difficulty? I could never have trust for this man, regardless of what my heart feels. We have to set boundaries of what is acceptable behavior. If he couldn't communicate, is there really a chance for a future? I think not. | |
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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 11:02:02 AM |
I myself am curious about why she went to them so fast before even talking to him about it. Fear and especially the fear that she cannot trust her own judgement. The idea that you can't trust your own judgement is really scary -- who else do you turn to if not those who have cared for you when you were unable to care for yourself (e.g. as a child or having some major crisis). | |
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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 11:06:16 AM | So the issue here is really two-fold I would think.
First, what can he do to earn her trust, I would say only time (if allowed) will tell, and second, what can he do to earn their trust, she spoke so highly of him for so long to so many people, I know she felt hurt, and probably embarrassed herself at exposing something so negative now about him. It's almost like she put him on such a high pedastal, it's crazy how low he fell now to her. She had even begun to distance herself from the negative influence of her family because she needed him so much in her life, I think at this point she just feels lost, though still in love with him.
Though she does want to continue it, and I know he does too, the relationship can't exist in a vacuum unfortunately.
I'll probably end up talking with him by phone than her today at some point. | |
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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 11:10:40 AM | I'm sorry guys, I think but there is a bigger picture here. And the way my mind works is that I always shoot right straight to the bottom line, lol, so here it is. The fact that he used her card is about more than just using the card without her knowledge:
<div class='quote'>and became afraid that if she found out there was anything "wrong" with him, she would bolt.
There was something wrong. Had there not been, he wouldn't have been in such an urgent situation that caused him to freak and make such a desperate decision. And moreso, he didn't own up to it, she found out on her own. That's no way to start out a new relationship, number one; and number two, being deceptive to your partner about money/money issues is, like, well, the number one reason folks divorce.  How is what he did OK, just cause he's a good guy?
Whatever his financial status, he needs to reveal it openly because they're apparently mixing money, else he wouldn't have had access to her card. (Just imagining him sneaking through her stuff to get it just gives me the bloody creeps!) Sharing in the solution to these issues is part of a partnership. Going behind our partner's back and acting solo and deceptively is not.
Also, his very emotional reaction (the crying on the phone) seems a lil over the top, and makes me think he's in a much more desperate situation than he's letting on. That doesn't bode well for the partnership. He absolutely needs to come clean. Sharing the load and giving your partner half a freaking chance to BE a partner is what it's all about.
Edited to add:
I myself am curious about why she went to them so fast before even talking to him about it. If her relationship is so tense with them and they tend to give her such a hard time in general about her lifestyle, I just don't think that she should have thrown it all in like that so fast, but you can't reverse what's happened.
Probably because she still needs everyone to continue playing the same role, no matter how problematic it is. It's familiar. | |
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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 11:14:15 AM | I know his financial situation is definitely cure-able. I think in that time of crisis, he really hates the idea of losing her on top of the stress he was feeling, so I'm willing to give him some leeway on the crying thing (I'm not talking balling, you could just tell he was choked up). I can tell you he is definitely not an unstable individual.
Agreed, though the logistics of the whole transaction definitely don't look good, and that's really something they will have to deal with themselves.
I have to return two calls this afternoon from each. So hopefully a few more people want to weigh in on this.
Thanks a lot for the great feedback though, there are a lot of really kind, thoughtful people on this site. | |
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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 11:31:23 AM |
How is what he did OK, just cause he's a good guy?
It's not that what he did is OK and should just be overlooked. It's that, at this point in time, it seems like a genuine, honest mistake, bred purely out of stress and pressure. The actual issue isn't what he did, but rather, will he do it again.
Also, his very emotional reaction (the crying on the phone) seems a lil over the top, and makes me think he's in a much more desperate situation than he's letting on.
I understood it as him crying over the phone, because he knew he made a HUGE friggin mistake, and didn't want to ultimate lose the woman that he loves because of some stupid financial crap. Which I can totally understand. But maybe I misunderstood. | |
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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 11:42:32 AM | Sounds like he made a stupid misatke and now regrets it....she should have waited on telling her family before confronting him.
I think we all do things we wish we didnt....I think it should be left up to the two of them....HOPEFULLY her family will stay out of it....In my experience...my family ALWAYS stayed out of everything...their theory was...you are an adult..we arent going to judge or take sides....because what happens if you then decide to stay with the persona nd then there are all the bad feelings?
I think its best to let them deal on their own.... | |
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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 12:00:15 PM | First of all as a financial advisor he knows you should have 3 to 6 months backup reserve in the bank for just the situation he was in.
And no matter how you want to spin it.......what he did was a crime.
I have seen NICE men and women put families into financial devastion with gambling , drugs, and alcohol problems. And every time they got caught stealing, lying, and robbing Peter to pay Paul they were sorry and promised never to do it again.
He has been with this woman for 3 months and felt it ok to take her CC without her permission and use it. As a financial advisor I wonder if he wouldnt tell a client what a red flag that is?
However, if she forgave him, she now has to do some damage control with her family. They are just looking our for her best interest. That's what families do. She needs to ask that they at least are, to some degree, tolerating him in her presence. She cant ask or demand respect. That may or may not be gained over time ,but they are entitled to , and have control over their own feelings. She can only control hers. And if she chose to forgive him, it doesnt mean they have to.
PEACE | |
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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 12:07:56 PM | iissssh, I don't know about that one...He could very well be an awsome guy, but my concern is that he STILL took that credit card and made a payment without her knowing. many people would agree.....He stole...and that is alarming....was it a mistake? yes...could it happen again....maybe...and that's where my concern lies.
How real are the tears? | |
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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 12:08:17 PM | Let's back up...they've only been dating 3 months and it's already so tangled that he knows her credit card info and stole from her by using it? What would be the need to go any further? Oh and I'm so sure he'll never do it again  If she stays with this guy then why would her family not think she's crazy, she is. It's true it's a big reason relationships break up, by involving others in your personal intimate life, but this is different, he stole from her, you'd have to be an idiot to think he's a nice guy and he won't ever do anything like that again, come on, is he 2? Either she's asking for a lot of trouble or she's attracted to this type. This ranks right up there with, sorry I didn't mean to hit you but I had a back day at the office. What's next, needing her car for a bank robbery because he was out of beer? <img src=http://www.plentyoffish.com/smiles/icon_201.gif border=0>
I'm trying to remember the last time I made an honest mistake and stole a credit card and used it to pay my bills. How does that happen? This is nuts, but then reading your further info that she's basically unstable, of course she's attracted to and attracting low life's with sticky finger problems. She needs a another bad relationship like she needs a boy friend who steals her credit card, what she needs is to not date until after some years of therapy. I doubt that will happen though, not with the 'help' she's getting from friends to carry on and just let something this ridiculous and serious, upset her. What a bunch of malarkey.
And let's not forget, they are in love...after three whole months of dating...yeah, right. ...and they wonder why it never works out like in the movies. | |
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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 12:33:14 PM | | What the boyfriend did was to steal from her. He, without her knowledge, used her credit card to pay his bills. How did he get the card? Did he physically steal it from her wallet? Did he just copy down the number and phone the payment in? Didn't he realize she would notice? He was too embarrassed to ask her for help but not too embarrassed to steal from her? If he was able to pay her back right away, why couldn't he have made the payment a day or two later? This situation would be a HUGE warning sign to me. If he would do such a thing after only 3 months, what would he do if they'd been together longer? Perhaps take a 2nd mortgage out on her house? But, oh yeah, I was planning on telling you about it... And I have a bridge to sell. | |
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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 12:38:40 PM | | Stay together. He made a mistake but paid her back the very next day. Yes it was wrong, but it wasn't something that can't easily be overcome. | |
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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 1:05:05 PM | Okay first of all, maybe you shouldnt be sharing someone elses story on here, if they wanted to share their personal life, thats up to them.
Second of all, it looks like your acting like your in the relationship with them, when your not, its their relationship, let them worry about it, dont worry about someone elses relationship when you should be focusing on your own, and if you dont have one, than maybe thats because your spending too much of your time, tryin to fix other people's relationships. | |
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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 1:09:14 PM | What most of you "dump his ass" nay-sayers seem to completely overlook is that he paid her back the very next day. Obviously, he took the card with every intention of paying her back, he just didn't have access to the funds when they were immediately needed.
I'm not saying that this guy did the right thing, but you can't look at the situation in a bubble and make a judgment on it. Everybody, yes everybody, f*cks up from time to time. We don't know the exact reason why he went this route, and why he couldn't use his own money. This could be a one-time occurence, and it would completely suck to lose out on the love of your life, because they did something stupid once. | |
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| Should they stay together?
Posted: 7/21/2008 1:18:42 PM | Doomed
Theft
He took her credit card and used it without asking. Short word is theft.
If they were married and he didn't consider it as theft wouldn't she forever have the feeling that something was being taken without her knowledge.
Trust
He broke the trust and even if he feels really bad how do you recover the trust. How long will she feel the need to carefully watch her balances. What could you do to earn the trust back... never steal again?
Humiliation
Both will permantely have this incident forever in the minds of friends and family. Maybe friends will understand that it was out of character, mayber family will understand that she was able to get past it and they care for each other but it will always be remembered. Since her family is apparently very involved in her life he will never be good enough in their eyes and she will always feel defensive.
There is no clean way out. Ooops! | |
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