| Men that say "Never Again"
Posted: 7/23/2008 7:21:04 AM | Living in Southern California, most of the single available men here have incredible horror stories from the past marriage or two. The California state laws about spousal support alimony and division of property at the time of divorce , have all but ruined alot of So Cal guys. I don`t know if it is the materialism or the greed or the acceptance of the high maintenence trophy or whatever. But guys will take it in the kneck by a beautiful trophy, one or two times, then swear off all women as being demonic users.
This is almost a given for older men in Southern California. They cannot "risk " ever considering marrying again much less cohabitating or becoming involved in a long term relationship. They aren`t burned, they are charred black.
So they meet a really nice giving non-California lady, with descent values , who really cares about them, and they won`t give any woman a chance any more.
I see this all of the time. Is there any hope for this whole generation of divorced guys.
Or will they all stay alone the rest of their lives and take lovers from time to time? Will they ever be able to regain any trust in the opposite sex? I`m seeing alot of guys who seem to really have potential for a descent relationship but have resigned to the fact that they will never risk it again. | |
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| Men that say Never Again
Posted: 7/23/2008 8:37:16 AM |
Is there any hope for this whole generation of divorced guys.
There's more to life than getting married. If it's a good thing in a certain relationship then great, congrats, happy trails and all power to the happy couple, long life etc.
But as for "hope" - baby there's no end of hope - life is for LIVING and it's NOT dependent upon being hitched.
As for being "given a chance" - sorry but it sounds like you are externalising control of your life. If someone doesn't want to go down that road with you it's not about being given a chance - it's about making a choice between one path and another. People make those choices on the basis of many factors, most of them emotional but to some extent logical as well. The bottom line is that it takes two to Tango and although you may feel a certain way, the other person clearly doesn't - that may change with time and patience (which you seem to lack) but it's not about taking chances - it's about making choices. | |
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| Men that say Never Again
Posted: 7/23/2008 8:52:13 AM | Yeah ms wildflower there are some of us out here, not necesarily in cali though. one thing i might say about this situation for you to think about is this. if a guy is already talking or thinking about divorce or seperation when you are just at the dating stage he has not got over his woundedness yet and is not a good bet for a person ready for commitment, as you seem to be. just a thought to think about.  | |
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| Men that say Never Again
Posted: 7/23/2008 9:08:00 AM | | Sorry, not too sure how you expect PoF members from all around the country/world to have any answers for "how the Southern California older divorced men think". lol | |
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| Men that say Never Again
Posted: 7/23/2008 9:55:05 AM | IMO. If a guy, no matter where he is in the world, falls head over heels for a lady, I would think he would not hesitate to give 'love' another chance.
Personally I think, it is just a good enough excuse until he/she find the right one for them. | |
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| Men that say Never Again
Posted: 7/23/2008 10:13:46 AM | I think the courts in most states are heavily biased against men in divorce.
It certainly gives one serious trepidation on the wisdom of future marriage.
Statistically it doesn't look good either in terms of success.
While I'm a bit gun shy, I haven't given up. I'm sure somewhere out there there is a wonderful lady who sees life in a similar way . | |
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| Men that say Never Again
Posted: 7/23/2008 10:43:19 AM | | While I tend to agree from sad personal experience on that comment I have to say this. second marriages are usually higher at failure rate. (75%according to some sources) however third marriages have a really low divorce rate. my guess is most of us, i include myself in this one, rebound to quickly into a second marriage before all the wounds have healed and we are simply not ready for that yet. | |
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| Men that say Never Again
Posted: 7/23/2008 10:49:50 AM | You can lament their choice to quit the dating game all you want, but it's THEIR choice. Leave them alone, you can't change other people.
I am sure some are just sick of it "right now", and will change their minds when their heads are screwed on straight. Meanwhile, though, don't go butting your head into that brick wall.
BTW, women do this [give up hope] , too. | |
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| Men that say Never Again
Posted: 7/23/2008 10:58:58 AM | | ^^^Exactly. Let them be and it is not limited to just men. And...the attitude isn't limited to Southern California either. I've seen this attitude from people in other states too. | |
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| Men that say Never Again
Posted: 7/23/2008 11:10:29 AM | I count myself as one of those men who was disadvantaged by the divorce laws and I am a long way from California. I supported my ex-wife for more than 20 years and apparently that obligates me to continue to do so. So I gave her the house that I paid for and agreed to pay her spousal support for some period of time even though our children are grown. My support to her continues if I get married but stops if she does. The fairness of this arrangement depends, I suppose, on your point of view.
I do think that never again would I hook up with a lady who sees me primarily as a meal ticket or bill payer for all the things she never had as a child. Of course the ex-wife is costing me so much money I could not begin to afford another. As far as trust, it is true that I don't trust any woman to put my welfare ahead of hers, nor am I willing to put hers ahead of mine. If we can find some common ground between two independent people, I am all for it. | |
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| Men that say Never Again
Posted: 7/23/2008 12:56:19 PM | To defend men, I have to say that I believe in prenuptual agreements IF you end up getting married. Too many women find a single man, he dies, she inherits everything since the wife comes before his children. Therefore, his own flesh and blood gets nothing while a using golddigger walks away with everything. That is not right! Reason being: He is dead and she can then will all of his/her assets to her own kids....and STILL eliminate his children. Yes, that happens because many women marry a man to secure THEIR future and could care less about his family. It's all about HER.
Also, I am 39 and I am looking down the road at my retirement as do many other men out there. If I dated someone for 10 years, tthat would put me at getting married around 50....so when we broke up, in 5 years down the road and hit divorce court, 50/50 - everything split down the middle....AGE 55 - That's too old to start over financially.
At least by staying single, dating, no certificate in the middle, ones retirement, IRAs, 401Ks, annuities, assets and last will remain intact, unscathed, and nothing down the middle - and at least somebody's stand a chance to inherit their family home down the road. | |
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| Men that say Never Again
Posted: 7/23/2008 1:16:18 PM | I totally agree. It has become a real mess. And I don`t blame anyone for not ever wanting to get married. It doesn`t even make sense any more. It`s so sad what this culture has become. And yes , I am one of the kids who got left without an inheritance.
But I kind of expected that. | |
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| Men that say Never Again
Posted: 7/23/2008 5:33:28 PM | Desert - it's not always the men that say "hell no", when it comes to another walk down the aisle. If one had asked me 15 years ago if I wanted to remarry, my response would be "hell no, period, end of story". Today, I may be open to it, but it's not a requirement.
I think too often that people are more in love with the idea of "marriage", than they are in love with each other. Marriage may seem "romantic" in some ways, it may offer comforts & conveniences, but it also requires great thought, care, and a whole lot of effort. | |
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| Men that say Never Again
Posted: 7/23/2008 8:00:24 PM | These days a wife can make a single phone call to the police and clam abuse.
A man can be escorted from his own him, separated from his children AND home and money, she can file restraining orders, stalking orders, have him put in jail, he can lose his job, his reputation, etc.................all in one call and in one lie.
So, ya, never again. Women wield way too much power in marriage.
These days, a man has to be INSANE to marry a woman or commit himself financially by signing on any dotted line with her.
Enjoy them, love them, be with them, even live with them.........but DO NOT MARRY.
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| Men that say Never Again
Posted: 7/23/2008 9:00:48 PM | ^^^^^ Domestic violence goes both ways in most states. If a woman or man calls the police and claims abuse, the police come out and arrest both parties. There has to be proof of the abuse for it to stick.
I know, people think years ago things were better, but in my opinion, a lot of women and men at least report true abuse and it is not sweeped under the carpet. The laws still have a long way to go.
OT, of course men or women who feel they are "taken" in a divorce have their guard up and say never again. In a way, I feel the same way. I walked away from my home, friends, family and could have gotten a lot more, but was happy just to have peace and a place to sleep without fear.
JMO | |
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| Men that say Never Again
Posted: 7/23/2008 11:14:54 PM | TheStefano, I think it is interesting the way your profile reads and then this comment...
I know a man who's wife did that, claimed abuse and had him thrown in jail when they were going thru a divorce, told him he would sit there until he agreed to give her full custody of their son. She got full custody and the son lives with him...yes it is sad but he didnt even try to fight it he just gave in to her. I was so angry that he just caves in to her and realize we wouldnt work cause I would insist he go back to court and fight for his rights as a father.
Another women here in Knoxville tried this with a friend and she ended up in trouble, the court saw thru it and she was who ended up being ordered for mental evaluation and lost custody of the children.
My feelings is no matter what someone else has put you thru in the past WHY ARE YOU making someone else pay for it? Love is unconditional so why are we putting so many conditions on it. Ill love you but I wont marry you cause my money is more important? If I met someone and we decided to get married I would insist they protect their assets in case something happened to both of us at the same time...ie car wreck, plane crash. | |
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| Men that say Never Again
Posted: 7/24/2008 6:09:52 AM | AgelessWonder said - Domestic violence goes both ways in most states. If a woman or man calls the police and claims abuse, the police come out and arrest both parties. There has to be proof of the abuse for it to stick.
Not true - She filed a false claim, the sheriff came, kicked me out of the house I paid for. Went to court on the abuse charge and "won" but that did not change the outcome. Her lies were accepted as truth. She got everything. Once your pegged as the bad guy - everything you do is construed as further proof that your a bad guy. It's pretty sad when the legal system supports the first person who cries wolf and won't look into whether or not it's true. That is unless you are willing to dish out 10's of thousands of dollars for attorney fees - then you end up with nothing anyway, the attorney got it all. Wonderful system we have.
I used to feel strongly against pre-nups, but now IF I were ever to think of getting married again, I would probably want one. And that would probably be a deal breaker for her. So why even go there. | |
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| Men that say Never Again
Posted: 7/24/2008 6:16:46 AM | | They invested at least 50% to the horrible marriage so I would say they have a terrible track record so keep trucking and find someone without a past failure. | |
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| Men that say Never Again
Posted: 7/24/2008 6:25:48 AM | sapphireeyes, I am not making anyone "pay" for anything or if I am, maybe it's myself that will lose out in the end.
I have the right to conduct my life as I choose and at my age, I just cannot afford to lose my assets and start all over again. I owe it to my daughter to leave an estate for her behind me, rather than gamble it away on a possibly foolhardy marriage, too. It happened to me once and it will not happen to me again, that is simply prudent.
Anyway, IDEAL love is unconditional but real love is conditional, we all expect certain things and are expected to provide certain things. Love doesnt last without those.
There are lots of choices.........a long term relationship without marriage and simply living together is simply one of them.
I wish things were more fair, but people divorce at the drop of a hat, people change, the laws are screwy, the courts don't question, etc. ....it's too bad, but I just cannot afford to play that game so now it's my rules, my survival.  | |
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| Men that say Never Again
Posted: 7/24/2008 6:51:56 AM | | I am going to say this once again, ANYONE, MAN OR WOMAN. who contemplates domestic partnership or marriage who is thinking of divorce or seperation at the time it is contemplated, let alone before you have gotten to that point, IS NOT a candidate for dating for a person who wants to eventually get remarried. Now how people choose to conduct their lives is their business. I personally dont care if people in the POF pond, or at least part of it, want to use it for purely sexual hookups. thats ok. but for those of us who dont see every marriage ending in divorce and anger and losing it all to that rotten person we used to love, (speaking for myself and probably lots of others as well) if you have issues with long term commitment dont e mail us, dont put us on your favorites and just dont contact us. Most of us over 45 types in the pond have plenty of horror stories of our own. Many of us are discouraged by the situation and qutie frankly we dont need the drama. Heal your wounds people, go on with your lives and do your thing. but let those of us who want a life parnter have our space, ideas and part of the pond all to ourselves. | |
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| Men that say Never Again
Posted: 7/24/2008 6:58:14 AM |
It`s so sad what this culture has become.
Booo-hooo. Men don't want to marry you. What a shame. Maybe it's the sweeping generalizations to all men that is part of the problem. According to your profile your a Moose Hunting BBW. Perhaps you should set your sights on gophers. | |
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| Men that say Never Again
Posted: 7/24/2008 8:54:39 AM | | With divorce rates 50-50 or higher one should think before the jump into this type of arrangement. There can be many reasons to get married or just lust and just as many to not. If either party has anything and has worked long and hard to aquire it don't be like Paul McCarthy and marry without an agreement. | |
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| Men that say Never Again
Posted: 7/24/2008 9:34:35 AM | parrothead13: re: "I am going to say this once again, ANYONE, MAN OR WOMAN. who contemplates domestic partnership or marriage who is thinking of divorce or seperation at the time it is contemplated, let alone before you have gotten to that point, IS NOT a candidate for dating for a person who wants to eventually get remarried.""
I'm not sure who you think you are to prescribe who should or shouldn't be here, but legal marriage is a contractual arrangement, among other things, the main beneficiary of which is children. If a person has grown children and assets they want to protect, why marry again? It is insane not to protect your assets either through a prenup, which contemplates divorce, or an LTR that is a marriage in every other way except legally binding financially.
If there are no assets to protect, including a job you might value, then go right ahead and marry if you want! There is nothing to lose.
A man can be a good provider, faithful, devoted, loving, caring, kind, affectionate and a wonderful husband for years and years ........and one phone call from the wife, who might have even been carrying on an affair, claiming abuse ..... and he can kiss the assets he's built up goodbye. It didn't happen to me, but I know PLENTY of men it has happened to.
I'd marry if marriage were permanant, irrevocable, etc.....but it isn't, people divorce for frivolous reasons and one of them is to make a grab for your assets and give you the boot. You can't wish things to happen..... if you think you can, you are in a dream world and heading for a nasty fall. | |
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| Men that say Never Again
Posted: 7/24/2008 10:01:36 AM | I guess the solution to all of this is to either never marry again, or only marry another that is your equal financially and will gain or lose the same monetary options.....
I am one to believe that unless you plan on having children, or have small children yet to raise, there is no reason to marry and being a couple works very well for me. I did all of that before, and have no need to do it again, or have more children to father and raise.
Most couples of any substance should seek advice from their financial advisers about all the options once they contemplate living together, or getting married. This would be no different if you bought a new house, or invested in a new company........to walk into it blindly with your wallet wide open, just does not make good sense or is good business, and marriage is a contract and business.
Just my opinion......   | |
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