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Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  > Sanctuary City? Or just a free pass to committ felonies?[Thread C      Mod Threads Home login  
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 sanderick

Joined: 8/27/2007
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Sanctuary City? Or just a free pass to committ felonies?[Thread Closed/Trolling]
Posted: 7/24/2008 9:35:41 AM

Killings turn focus on San Francisco sanctuary law

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - The scene repeats itself daily on city streets: a driver gets stuck bumper to bumper, blocking an intersection and preventing another car from turning left.

But authorities say that was enough to cause Edwin Ramos to unload an AK-47 assault weapon on a man and his two sons, killing them.

The deaths immediately drew public outrage, which intensified when authorities revealed that Ramos, 21, is an illegal immigrant who managed to avoid deportation despite previous brushes with the law.

The case has put San Francisco's liberal politics to the test, setting off a debate over its sanctuary law that shields undocumented immigrants from deportation.

On Wednesday, Ramos pleaded not guilty to three counts of murder in the deaths of Anthony Bologna, 49, and his sons, Michael, 20, and Matthew, 16. Bologna and his older son died in the intersection on June 22. His younger son succumbed to his injuries days later.

Shortly after that, police arrested Ramos, a native of El Salvador and reputed member of the Mara Salvatrucha gang, known as MS-13. Investigators believe he was the gunman, though two other men were seen in the car with him.

The heinousness of the deaths has put pressure on San Francisco District Attorney Kamala Harris to seek the death penalty against Ramos. Harris, who campaigned on an anti-death penalty platform and has never pursued capital punishment during her more than four years in office, has declined to say exactly how she intends to proceed.

"This case has been charged as a special circumstance case," making it eligible for the death penalty, spokeswoman Erica Derryck said. "No additional announcement has been made about this aspect of the charging."

Ramos' attorney, Robert Amparan, said his client was not the shooter. "They have the wrong person," he said.

Amparan declined to discuss details of the case, but he denied his client was involved in gang activity and said Ramos entered the country legally. Federal authorities contend Ramos is undocumented.

The victims' family learned that Ramos had been arrested at least three times before the shooting and evaded deportation, largely because of San Francisco's sanctuary status.

The policy, adopted in 1989 by the city's elected Board of Supervisors, bars local officials from cooperating with federal authorities in their efforts to deport illegal immigrants.

Officials in the juvenile offenders agency interpreted the law to also shield underage felons from deportation by refusing to report undocumented ones. Mayor Gavin Newsom said he rescinded the policy regarding juvenile offenders after learning about it in May.

The Bolognas' relatives say Ramos apparently benefited from the policy when he reportedly was convicted twice of felonies in 2003 and 2004 but never was turned over for deportation.

"All San Francisco's sanctuary ordinance has done is bring violence and death to this once-great city," said Frank Kennedy, who is married to Anthony Bologna's sister.

Kennedy called for an investigation of the sanctuary policy and demanded "prosecutions for violating the law."

Meanwhile, local and federal authorities are pointing fingers at each other over Ramos' most recent arrest before the shooting.

Ramos was arrested in late March with another man after police discovered a gun used in a double homicide in the car Ramos was driving.

The district attorney's office decided not to file charges against Ramos, and he was released April 2 even though he was in the process of being deported after his application for legal residence was denied, according to the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

San Francisco Sheriff's Department spokesman Eileen Hirst said jail officials faxed ICE on March 30 asking if Ramos should remain jailed. Ramos was freed after Hirst said immigration officials didn't respond.

ICE spokesman Timothy Counts said his agency did not receive word of Ramos' arrest in March. He said the only communication received about Ramos was an "electronic message" from the sheriff's department three hours after his release.

The case has garnered national attention, leading U.S. Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., and an anti-immigration group called Californians for Population Stabilization to ask the U.S. Department of Justice to take over, alleging San Francisco authorities have mishandled it.

"Because San Francisco's political leaders have already demonstrated their willingness to act in flagrant violation of federal law, I do not believe that local judicial institutions can be trusted to fairly try the case or mete out an appropriate punishment," Tancredo said in a letter sent Tuesday to U.S. Attorney General Michael Mukasey.

Justice Department spokesman Charles Miller said he was unaware of the case and the congressman's request. Miller said the attorney general routinely responds privately to such requests.

Diana Hull, president of Californians for Population Stabilization, called on about a dozen cities nationwide with similar sanctuary policies to end those programs.

"We need to remember always that a death-dealing policy like 'sanctuary' hides behind the false mantle of compassion," Hull said.

Nathan Ballard, a spokesman for San Francisco's mayor, said city officials were wrong to shield undocumented, juvenile felons from federal immigration authorities.

"The sanctuary program was never intended to shield felons," Ballard said. "The policy was inappropriate."

However, Newsom "still supports the worthwhile aims of denying the federal government" assistance in deporting otherwise law-abiding undocumented residents, he said.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080724/D9246MRG1.html



It's interesting how the Mayor of SF views this.

"otherwise law-abiding undocumented residents"

How can you break the law getting into this country and still be considered "law-abiding", when the very first thing you did to get here was break the law?


So, the question:

Is being a Sanctuary City a benefit for the community of that city?

Or, is it just a license for foreign illegals to commit crime in that city?

 h0ldfast

Joined: 12/19/2006
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Sanctuary City? Or just a free pass to committ felonies?
Posted: 7/24/2008 9:55:50 AM
As much as I dislike any measure that shields criminals from justice, I think that the final decision about the sanctuary policy should be settled by San Francisco. Of course, if that city chooses to harbour felons living there illegally, the citizens of that city should accept the crime that results, and the taxpayers of that city should foot the bill for the additional expenses (legal, medical, police) that go along with it. I would expect over time that other, more law abiding municipalities would attract more investment, jobs and business than the crime friendly areas, but if urban decay is what San Francisco's citizens want, they should be free to pursue it.
 just forums

Joined: 5/25/2008
Msg: 3
Sanctuary City? Or just a free pass to committ felonies?
Posted: 7/24/2008 2:56:29 PM
Its a free pass for potential felons.
People reside in cities, which are located within states, which in turn are located within the United States. So that means there are local laws, which cannot overlook states laws, which in turn cannot overlook federal laws.
Take for example medical Marijuana.....even though the state of CA has made it legal to use marijuana for the purpose of medical treatment, the Feds will gladly come on in and slap the cuffs on you for breaking any of the federal laws.
Personally, shield laws that protect illegal immigrants are hypocritical. Break the laws of the Untied States by immigrating illegally and then become protected for the very reason you would be deported? And then shield you from prosecution if you commit a crime?
I dunno doesnt make sense to me.
 jasman123

Joined: 6/1/2008
Msg: 4
Sanctuary City? Or just a free pass to committ felonies?
Posted: 7/24/2008 3:07:39 PM
Well, San Fransisco is a liberal city. I am sure they were warned of the possible outcome of becoming a sanctuary city for illegals. I am sorry for the family, but I wonder if he was one of those proud liberals.
 yna6

Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 5
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Sanctuary City? Or just a free pass to committ felonies?
Posted: 7/24/2008 4:12:04 PM
Then perhaps the"legal citizens" should make carrying a concealed firearm a part of everyday life, and actually use them!

I don't know US law...but if they made illegal immigration a felony offence would that not give the State the right to pursue any illegal immigrant anywhere in the US? Would it not also force the local state and city officials to give them their full co-operation?
Perhaps the state should simply stop funding these cities. Make it monetarily disadvantageous to harbour illegals.
The law wasn't meant to harbour hardcore criminals...but they have the tendancy to shield themselves behind oddball laws like this and turn the justice system into a fiasco.
 jasman123

Joined: 6/1/2008
Msg: 6
Sanctuary City? Or just a free pass to committ felonies?
Posted: 7/24/2008 4:25:36 PM

The law wasn't meant to harbour hardcore criminals...but they have the tendancy to shield themselves behind oddball laws like this and turn the justice system into a fiasco.

Here is an example of another fiasco.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/01/MNR211HGVL.DTL

8 crack dealers shielded by S.F. walk away
An effort by San Francisco to shield eight young Honduran crack dealers from federal immigration officials backfired when the youths escaped from Southern California group homes within days of their arrival, officials said Monday.

The walkaways are the latest in a string of embarrassments for city officials who are protecting illegal-immigrant drug dealers from federal authorities and possible deportation because of San Francisco's 1989 declaration that the city is a sanctuary for undocumented immigrants.

>

Until recently, San Francisco flew juvenile illegal immigrants convicted of drug crimes to their home countries rather than cooperate with the federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, a practice that drew national attention when The Chronicle reported it Sunday.

When federal law enforcement authorities demanded that San Francisco halt the flights and began a criminal investigation, the city decided to house some of the dealers in long-term youth rehabilitation centers. Some of those centers are run by a nonprofitcompany called Silverlake Youth Services in mountain towns southeast of San Bernardino.

Eight Honduran juveniles who had been convicted of dealing drugs in San Francisco were sent within the past few weeks to the company's group homes, where one month's placement costs $7,000 per youth - an expense borne by San Francisco taxpayers.

Within 10 days of being sent to the unlocked group homes, however, all eight youths ran away, said Bill Siffermann, head of juvenile probation in San Francisco. He said his agency has issued arrest warrants for them.
 mungojoe

Joined: 11/15/2006
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Sanctuary City? Or just a free pass to committ felonies?
Posted: 7/24/2008 5:06:31 PM

It's interesting how the Mayor of SF views this.

I know what you mean.

I came across this story:

Murder Charges In Workplace Shooting

(AP) A grand jury on Thursday indicted the man suspected of systematically executing seven co-workers at a Wakefield Internet company the day after Christmas with seven counts of murder and a variety of weapons charges.

Michael McDermott, a 42-year-old software engineer, allegedly used a semiautomatic rifle and 12-gauge shotgun to kill his co-workers at Edgewater Technology Inc. Prosecutors have said he was angry over a government demand that the company withdraw back taxes from his paychecks.

...

In the hours after the shooting, authorities searched McDermott's home and office space. In his Haverhill apartment they found bomb-making chemicals, blasting caps and magazines on explosives.

CBS News

I'm flabberghasted by the "sense of entitlement" that these native-born citizens have.

They seem to think that they can be born in the country, take advantage of all the benefits that the greatest nation on earth offers and then refuse to pay any taxes like everyone else.

They take jobs from hard working, tax paying citizens and, get this, KILL us just because they were asked to pay taxes.

We need a law that will finally get rid of these felons once and for all.

Round 'em all up and deport 'em says I, BEFORE they can even commit their first felony.
 jasman123

Joined: 6/1/2008
Msg: 8
Sanctuary City? Or just a free pass to committ felonies?
Posted: 7/24/2008 5:17:56 PM
He may have thought they had entitlement, but he didn't. Thats why he were arrested and indicted. He was not kept in a city protecting him from the law. The law demanded him pay his back taxes. Your post creams, "Oh. No, liberal laws have backfired, but I cant bring myself to admit conservatives were right."
 mungojoe

Joined: 11/15/2006
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Sanctuary City? Or just a free pass to committ felonies?
Posted: 7/24/2008 5:24:43 PM

He may have thought they had entitlement, but he didn't. Thats why he were arrested and indicted.

Well, let's see...

From the OP

Shortly after that, police arrested Ramos

and

was convicted twice of felonies in 2003 and 2004

Arrested?

Convicted?

That doesn't sound much like being "protected from the law".

You were saying...?
 jasman123

Joined: 6/1/2008
Msg: 10
Sanctuary City? Or just a free pass to committ felonies?
Posted: 7/25/2008 2:56:43 AM
I will see.

Ramos, who had just turned 17, had allegedly flashed gang signs and banged on the bus’ windows with two other gang members. The three then yelled, "Who are you with?" at a passenger, who responded that he did not belong to a gang, police said.
At that point, Ramos and the other two boarded the bus and beat and kicked the man, an attack that was recorded by the bus’ video camera, authorities said.
Ramos was taken to juvenile hall on charges of assault and participating in a street gang. He was later convicted in juvenile court and was put in a shelter.

He should have been put in jail or deported, not sent to a shelter.

Records indicate that Ramos and two other men approached a pregnant woman from behind during the middle of the day, and that Ramos tried to yank away her backpack-style purse.The woman’s brother was walking alongside and tried to stop the attack. He pushed Ramos away, he later said, but Ramos punched him and fled.
The man found a police officer and pointed out Ramos nearby. A month later, Ramos was convicted as a juvenile of attempted robbery, a felony, but cleared of assault.Ramos was sent to Log Cabin Ranch, a city-run camp in the hills of the Peninsula, in June 2004

Again, should have been sent to jail or deported.
 SKAJ

Joined: 5/29/2008
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Sanctuary City? Or just a free pass to committ felonies?
Posted: 7/25/2008 6:29:51 AM
He should have been put in jail or deported, not sent to a shelter.

The key word in both those stories is juvenile. I personally think that after a juveline is convicted of his/her first crime they should be treated as an adult, but that's a different argument.


"otherwise law-abiding undocumented residents"

How can you break the law getting into this country and still be considered "law-abiding", when the very first thing you did to get here was break the law?

You pointed out the relavent phrase.
"Otherwise law-abiding"
There are plenty of illegal immigrants that contribute positively to our economy and society in general. That's who the sanctuary was designed to protect. It's unfortunate that in this case, the law protected the wrong person, but you'll find examples of that with every law illegals or not. The important thing here is to fix it so psychotic gang-members and criminals don't benefit from it.

 sanderick

Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 12
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Sanctuary City? Or just a free pass to committ felonies?
Posted: 7/25/2008 10:11:49 AM
So, the question:

Is being a Sanctuary City a benefit for the community of that city?

If yes, What are the benefits?

Or, is it just a license for foreign illegals to commit crime in that city?



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