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Joined: 6/5/2008
Msg: 1 | |
| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/24/2008 2:54:57 PM | It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Have you ever met anyone with whom making, or keeping eye contact proved to be difficult?
I had the misfortune to have a one-time customer come to my home where I operate my business. This led to what is by far the most weird eye-contact encounter I've experienced. We were standing a few feet apart, discussing his job and I noticed he was averting his gaze. I don't mean he would look away a bit. He had actually turned his head and was facing perhaps 30 degrees to my right, at the corner of the room.
I wondered if perhaps he had a lazy-eye problem and though his head was turned away he was actually looking at me.
So I took the two or three steps to place myself in front of his face and looked right into his eyes. Wow, that sure startled him! He actually jumped.
He asked what I was doing and I explained I was looking for eye contact and then I stepped to where I was originally.
He averted his eyes again and said he believed eyes were the windows to the soul and he felt uncomfortable with people looking into his soul.
I was sure glad to complete the job and have him leave my home. He stunk to high heaven too so was gladder yet.
I can imagine how short a date or meeting with a POF fish would be if such eye contact avoidance was encountered.
Have you met anyone who couldn't make or keep eye contact with you?
Do you have trouble with making eye contact with people? Why?
Do you believe eyes are windows to your soul?
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| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/24/2008 3:18:16 PM |
Have you met anyone who couldn't make or keep eye contact with you?
yes... some people on the autism spectrum have issues with eye contact
Do you have trouble with making eye contact with people? Why?
think of a guilty child (applies to the first question as well) ... sometimes I have guilt.
I am also quite shy in person.
Do you believe eyes are windows to your soul?
To some extent yes, I believe that. | |
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| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/24/2008 4:15:23 PM | | I don't like the shifty eyed weasels any more than the rest of you. I usually challenge these kind of vulnerable shoe gazers to good old fashioned staring contest. If they can stare me down without smiling nervously, they have redeemed themselves, and have gained my immediate trust. | |
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| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/24/2008 4:43:09 PM | I cannot answer this question because I have never made eye contact with another human being. It would be creepy to look at someone's eyes.
Okay, seriously, no, I don't think it is creepy, but it makes the speaker less engaging. Some people are just shy. It was also pointed out that people with autism and autistic like conditions have trouble making eye contact. | |
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| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/24/2008 4:46:42 PM | OR
I support individuals with challenges, its common for me to talk with someone without having the eye contact. Many people in the world who deal with challenges (developmental, mental health, sociopaths etc) are unable to look people in the eye. Its just part of who they are. I never assume just because someone is unable to look at me directly in the eye, that they have anything to hide. I will spend time talking with them and then determine if there is an underlying issue present first. Its better to work harder at being non judgemental, than to allow myself to be easily critical.
When you develop a bond with someone, you have the ability to share more of those moments, always on each other's personal level. We all have our circles around us. Think about the people who are in your life and those that are sometimes in your life. Also consider those we meet on a day to day basis during lets say business. We allow different people to stand in different areas within our personal space or boundaries. My daughter calls it her personal bubbles. Psychology will give you a deeper explanation about how many circles we each own and how we use them. Eye contact for some is treated the same way. You may need to spend more time with someone to earn more eye contact.
I do seek out eye contact with someone I may wish to develop a personal relationship with. I am not sure its about the soul per say, but I do look for my own perception of warmth that may be casted out by the eyes. Some have described that feeling as a dreamy sensation.
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| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/24/2008 6:04:28 PM | ^^^ quite agree with much of...but the eye contact and analysis of another is a vast topic.
In my experience on a professional level (linterviewing) people who can hold eye contact are usually self assured...though changes in the pupil while conversing may allow a deeper look as to intentions etc...but nothing is ever 100% here.
When looking at the opposite sex eye contact may tell a lot as well, it could be an innocent flirt or invite suggesting interest...again many other body language signals will play part and one can never bes 100% certain.. | |
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| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/24/2008 6:24:54 PM | OR, the guy you are describing sounds a little strange.
I work really hard at looking at people when I talk to them. Sometimes I will avoid eye contact all together - if I don't like the person. I do keep eye contact for the most part, but I'll admit, it's tough. The problem is not really me looking at them, it's more them looking at me. Yet, it does not bother me if people look at me, as long as I am not looking at them.. lol .. people do tend to stare too. Grocery line ups are bad .. about two weeks ago, some guy behind me in the line-up said it's hard not to stare at you looking the way you do. kinda cheesey.. but did I respond? No.
Could I stand someone pointing out "hey I saw you on POF"? No way..
I am shy and cannot stand being in the spot-light, but at the same time I am quite friendly and chatty. I have good self-esteem and an idea where the problem may have come from, but will not discuss it here.
I hope this makes sense and answers your questions ~ if you have others, I will answer them in private | |
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Joined: 6/5/2008
Msg: 8 | |
| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/24/2008 8:02:08 PM | Thank you for some interesting comments above.
I admit having limited exposure to the autistic for I know only two and have no problem with eye contact with either. Presumably their condition is not as severe as would be typical in the cases presented above.
The chap I met and described in message #1, I have no idea if he was autistic or not, but don't believe so. I do know he was very weird and gave me the creeps.
However should I ever met such a eye contact averter again I will try to keep this discussion in mind.
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| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/24/2008 8:11:16 PM | | OR , I know in some cultures that they don't like making eye contact eg. Koreans and many Asian countries... The rest of the population though I have no idea, sometimes making eye contact reveals more than the person wants you to know! | |
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| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/24/2008 11:59:29 PM | What you did (getting your face in front of his face) was really a statement of your lack of understanding of people with disabilities, whether these are physical, mental or psychiatric. It doesn't sound like he was deaf, just very uncomfortable around you for whatever reason.
I'm not sure what your business is but you might consider taking a crash course in sensitivity to add to your credentials.
I bet the man paid you well for whatever service you provided too. Is that any way for you to treat a customer? You had better hope that if the shoe was ever on the other foot, that he had a better understanding of and sensitivity towards people with disabilities. | |
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Joined: 6/5/2008
Msg: 11 | |
| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/25/2008 1:19:47 AM | celticclass ^^
Why on Earth do you think I started this thread and asked the questions I did, if not in hopes of gaining insight and understanding?
The man made me very uncomfortable, in my own home. I have been in business for many years and this has never happened to me before. I have worked with people with various disabilities and challenges, with never a problem or complaint. Most of my business volume is based on word-of-mouth referral, this indicative of customers being happy with my service. In general they like me and I like them.
Do you now feel better after making this public condemnation and attack on me?
I think it was unjustified and uncalled for.
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| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/25/2008 1:40:27 AM | It seems to me the original poster OR was merely asking for information to shed light on this experience. Obviously it left the poster uncomfortable and confused enough to ponder some reasons as to why.
I dont think it is appropriate to attack the character of the poster when he was actually looking to broaden his knowledge base.
Not everybody has experience with dealing with persons with Disabilities. It takes an open minded individual to have the courage to ask when he doth not understand 
I myself have experienced lack of eye contact from individuals from other cultures and well as those with mental illnesses or Autism spectrum disorders. Even though I understand the reasons for the behavior it is uncomfortable for me as well. I think if I was on a date and there was no eye contact you could bet there would be no second date.
It doesn't mean I'm racist or intolerant of persons with disabilities but that I want comfortable dates.
VVVVV well said ML... Not everybody has to be comfortable with everybody Geesh | |
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| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/25/2008 1:41:22 AM | ^^^ never mind, lesson learned your topic problem solved
just treat every one as if they were handicapped
and while one is at it take a crash course on mind reading and instant psychoanalysis
practice on forums to graduate
then we don't ever have to feel different or uncomfortable about another person
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| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/25/2008 6:53:29 AM | ML ^^^^^
I do, I do.....trust me.....
Seriously, no one is perfect, everyone has some sort of ISSUE as I like to refer them to. I will not agree nor support the tongue and cheek comment above of course, but I will say I have met many in my life that seem way more off than most individuals I have supported over the years in my field. The true question is what is normal. As society continues to change the idea of what is normal or what should be the norm is always evolving. At one time the term dsyfunctional was used to describe a family that did not fit into what was deemed the norm, today society and the many so called professionals have been forced to alter their terminology with respect to definition and use of the word dysfunctional. But I am swaying off topic here now.
In the OP's case, he has experienced something that made him uncomfortable as some have said and he was seeking out some feedback only, certainly not criticism. I am sure in the future he will approach this type of situation a little different keeping in mind all the potential possibilities as to why someone would struggle with eye contact.
CC
just treat every one as if they were handicapped | |
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| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/25/2008 8:04:28 AM | | Oops...OR it was your choice of the words "weird" and "creepy" to describe someone who has difficulty for some reason that led to my assumption that you maybe needed some sensitivity training. You also put yourself " in front of his face and looked right into his eyes" and then found that: " Wow, that sure startled him! He actually jumped." Your description included that the person: "stunk to high heaven" as well, which is another indicator that maybe things were not so good for them at that point in their life. Interesting that you have made it this far in your career without encountering someone with these kind of difficulties. Good that you are seeking some education in this area rather than being judgemental. My apologies to you!!! | |
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| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/25/2008 8:06:30 AM |
I do, I do..
indeed cloe, that was slightly sarcastic as I see the matter the OP received a slap ( he likes it, tee , tee) for feeling uncomfortable with someone...
I understand you are professionally experienced with persons with physical, mental or social behaviour problems and your previous comments are very helpful indeed. For most people with little or no experience or exposure the conduct of a dysfunctional handicapped person may be rather unsettling. There is no prejudice or derogative intent, most people find the 'abnormal' unsettling until they understand and/or get used to deal with it...hence we call it abnormal.
My point was though that ignorance may not be an excuse, but we all cannot be expected to be learned in such matters and do have every right to feel uncomfortable and express that to. The OP or any of us may have our very own abnormal ways (in the eyes of others) to be and should have the same rights to be accepted in that way.
Obviously we can spit hair on this and still be apart or never find a solution. No harm came to the person of the OP's experience due to his conduct, , and that is a good thing, isn't it? I don't think any more would be justifiable to be expected of any one else.
IMO we cannot make the society as a whole responsible to adjust to extraordinary circumstances of a very few. We already provide very generous help and acceptance to disabled persons for humanitarian reasons (and I'm all for that to0, it could happen to any of us).
Thanks for your insights, cloe. | |
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Joined: 6/5/2008
Msg: 18 | |
| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/25/2008 8:49:08 AM | celticclass ^^^ msg 16
If you were to carefully read msg 1 you will note that I said the encounter was weird.
I did not describe the man as being weird and creepy.
I am positive that one can have a weird and or creepy experience with someone normal and healthy, because of what either you or the other person is dealing with at the time, such as a personal crisis, unbeknownst to the other.
There was no indication that the man suffers from any disabilities. His choice to deny someone to look into the windows of his soul and his choice not to be clean may stem merely from being unsociable.
I made no judgement of the man, though believe someone else may have made one about me.
Apologies accepted.
Let there once again be peace in this pond.
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| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/25/2008 11:02:33 AM | OR,I always enjoy you very thought provoking threads.I would encourage you to keep coming up with them.Please do not be discouraged by other peoples reactions to your posts, everyone thinks differantly and will all have differant issues. Through the opinions we all share here others will determine if they want to get to know us,(this is a dating site after all).Personally I find peoples words very illuminating on here and have managed to eliminate several possibilitys off of my list of people I would like to get to know better. I THANK YOU and everyone one else who takes the time and makes the effort to put an intelligent thought out here for the rest of us to consider /share our opinions on. | |
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Joined: 4/22/2007
Msg: 20 | |
| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/25/2008 11:14:53 AM |
It seems to me the original poster OR was merely asking for information to shed light on this experience. Obviously it left the poster uncomfortable and confused enough to ponder some reasons as to why.
I dont think it is appropriate to attack the character of the poster when he was actually looking to broaden his knowledge base.
Well said, mo-mo. Some of us were taught from a young age that if a person cannot look you in the eye, they are not being truthful. I have always found this strange because there are so many other reasons people cannot look you in the eye. | |
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| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/25/2008 11:58:33 AM |
Do you believe eyes are windows to your soul?
I so believe the above statement. It is amazing that when you look into the eyes of ‘elders’ that aging does not appear to happen (mountain don’t you dare correct me ‘lol’). The spirit seems to be captured in the eyes of an individual in spite of the physical appearance of skin n scars holding time suspended indefinitely.
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| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/25/2008 12:51:56 PM |
I wondered if perhaps he had a lazy-eye problem and though his head was turned away he was actually looking at me. So I took the two or three steps to place myself in front of his face and looked right into his eyes. Wow, that sure startled him! He actually jumped.
He asked what I was doing and I explained I was looking for eye contact and then I stepped to where I was originally. He averted his eyes again and said he believed eyes were the windows to the soul and he felt uncomfortable with people looking into his soul. I was sure glad to complete the job and have him leave my home. He stunk to high heaven too so was gladder yet.
I would think regardless of your intent to have him work in your home for a period of time, you might have interviewed him for information before hiring him to what ever work you were requesting. The question of safety and your comfort would have been my issue inviting someone into my home, but at the same time, being sure there was no culture clash if anything. Look see what has happened to you Onchy, you in the end walked away with some assumptions and further insult to your integrity (which was questioned), you slather on the conclusion that he stunk. There are so many different ways of viewing your post, this is just one of them. Obviously your experience of working with the public is limited and to talk of those that don’t look you in the eyes could come from many factors, such as the one he mentioned to you.
Being First Nations, the nation I belong to have words built into our language to describe a persons dispositions as to the trait of not making eye contact. There are many words describing the behavior of ‘no eye contact’ and they make sense. No assumptions are built into the belief, why? More then likely because of the generations of community living and the fact that everyone knows each other. The latter has been the case traditionally.
My experiences with the ‘eye contact’ assumptions have been vast including the beliefs a professor at UBC writing his doctorate made on the idea that First Nations children do not make eye contact and that it is a cultural thing. Obviously he didn’t do his research well, he did get his doctorate (lol). IF he had known the language of my people, he would have learned it is by far a stretch saying that it was cultural.
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Joined: 6/5/2008
Msg: 23 | |
| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/25/2008 1:37:32 PM | Once again I am compelled to draw a poster's attention to the original statement with the request to actually read carefully what was written.
If find it regrettable and point out that it is not uncommon to see a pattern in these forums, where some people have apparently only partially read someone's writing, before some sensitive nerve was touched, or they perceived their shoulder chip was bumped, and the reader is compelled to respond inaccurately or inappropriately. That may have been the case here.
Sigh. . . . .
Runswithwolves ^^^
In Message #1 I said the man was my customer, he came into my home, where I operate a business. I did not hire him. He came to me and I performed a professional service for him.
The "interview" consisted of him outlining what service he needed done, my getting the details I needed to perform the work to satisfaction and negotiation of a fair price and what time the work would be completed.
I have every reason to expect to be safe and comfortable in my home.
I did not walk away from anything. I stayed put and closed the door behind him after his exit.
I made no assumptions... well okay I made one. I assumed the cash payment was not counterfeit currency.
I did not slather on or draw a conclusion that he stunk. It was immediately obviously as soon as I got close enough to him to exchange product/service for payment. Had you been here your nose might have wrinkled up as well. I, and I am sure many of you too, have seen other people who in less extreme circumstances, make rude comments about someone's odour. Rest assured I did my politest best to not reveal my reaction to the olfactory assault.
I mentioned this smelly condition for one reason only; perhaps it might serve as clue to someone for his behaviour, which I obviously didn't understand.
The man was Caucasian and there was no evidence of a culture clash.
I was raised, schooled and employed in a British Columbia community where many of my friends and classmates, peers and co-workers were First Nations. I will admit it was a long time ago for me but I now think back to those years and have no recollection of there being any issue of avoidance of eye-contact with any of them.
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| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/25/2008 2:15:01 PM | | I find it rude when some people do not even look at me let alone in the eyes. Usually they are preoccupied or on the cell phone to acknowledge my existance...being a cashier makes one invisable. When I had my own company there were people visiting from all over the world and you learn that what is polite or normal to us may be even insulting to them. As far as your own situation, I dont know if it matters wheather someone looks at you or not its if they pay you for services rendered. Maybe he found you creepy as well? Dunno?Liars look away, but Ive met con men/women that will look you straight in the eye while stickin the knife in!lol No win situation, go with the gut I say!**yes I believe eyes are the windows to the soul....many things have these eyes seen.... | |
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| It is creepy when people avoid eye contact?
Posted: 7/25/2008 2:55:10 PM | slather was my interpretation (lol) to show my intent. Yes your implications provoked me thus the slather . Stinking had nothing to do with the fact he wasn’t making eye contact except to prove your point that he might have been ‘creepy’ as you noted later (implied note).
politest best to not reveal my reaction to the olfactory assault. Your too funny Onchy, some times it is best to leave as is ( rather then justifying). Assault may have been clouded by your obvious belief about such a man (told yah there were many ways of viewing your comments..lol).
serve as clue to someone for his behavior, which I obviously didn't understand.
no evidence of a culture clash.
Culture does not reflect just the colour of skin.
The question of eye contact among First Nations was questioned by professionals that worked with our people thus the conclusions by this professor, sorry if it appeared that I included you with that comment...was not meant to.
Onchy sorry if you felt it was a personal attack to you, it was the interpretation for me that pushed triggers. Those triggers is that some people don’t give the benefit of doubt through questions (like I just did with you) but make assumptions then feel they have beliefs about people.
Just for information about eye-contact: When you read up about men who abuse or have been victims themselves, you will not find eye contact freely given as a way of welcoming you. Their approach would be cautious. Most research suggest that sexual abuse victims have difficulty making eye contact until they feel safe. At times when there is eye contact, it may appear very cold (expressionless), without spirit, as there is non there to give.
Generally speaking, victims don’t consciously realize that they exhibit this behaviors a result of sexual abuse. The subconscious act of no eye contact among victims seems to hold the ‘secrets’. With counselling, the victims (over time) become confidant and self assured understanding the past was no fault of theirs.
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