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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/30/2008 6:32:13 PM | I read an interesting article on CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/07/30/bia.hiv.irpt/index.html
The author is commenting on the fact that AIDS is the number one killer of young black women and she comments:
"For a lot of young black women, what's putting them at risk is emotion. Young women are going to men for security -- you're talking about a fatherless home and a girl looking for approval. That's the kind of thing that puts them at risk."
Do you agree with her position, that young women in certain communities are being lead to their death by their emotions?
(Of course, I've focused on only one aspect of this article, so the link is included in case you would like to read the article in its entirety) | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/30/2008 6:50:29 PM | Just a bit of semantics with the quote in the story. Black women are not an "endangered species" because black women (or anyone other person) are not a separate species. There has always been and will always be an enormous amount of mixing between the so-called "races" (a term/concept with which I also take exception) such that no humans are different enough to warrant a separate species or even sub-species, and therefore none will "go extinct" until the entire species does.
Sorry for only commenting on semantics and not substance, but how we conceptualize the minimal and entirely superficial differences between all humans is one issue in which I am rather interested. | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/30/2008 6:56:00 PM | I don't understand the statement ... like how the author connects that to "emotion".
I'm aware that most of the men I had contact with in the jail openly admitted that they got their HIV from sharing needles. I guess the men are contracting the HIV sharing needles and the women are contracting it from the men they seek security from?
Is that the connection? | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/30/2008 7:31:16 PM | Yes, I think that's right. I'm paraphrasing, but I think the article is trying to say that black women (apparently at alarmingly higher rates than women of other ethnic/cultural groups) are contracting HIV from partners who they "trust" i.e., sleep with without demanding they use protection. Their trust is misplaced, or they don't seem to be able to override their emotional need to "trust" their partners despite the overwhelming rational evidence that the incidence of HIV is extremely high among black men for a variety of social reasons; drug use, poverty, lack of awareness/disease prevention programs in black urban areas, etc.
And yes, I believe endangered "species" is just a catchy title and doesn't literaly refer to a different "species." It was the title of the article I linked to, not my own words. | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/30/2008 9:04:48 PM | This is a health care crisis that appears is largely being ignored.
- AIDS is the leading cause of death among black women aged 25 - 34
- AIDS is the second leading cause of death among black men 35-44
- An estimated 30,000 new cases among blacks annually in the U.S.
- In 2006 an est. 7427 black Americans died of AIDS/HIV vs 3860 white Americans
- Rate of AIDS/HIV infection in the US rivals the rate in some African countries
Some other causes:
- Lack of education as to the risks
- Men on the 'down low'
- Poor health/compromised immune system makes one more succeptible to infection
- Poverty and a lack of access to affordable health care
As the article points out, people with access to health care and drugs are living.
Peace! | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/30/2008 9:38:05 PM | Gotta love the din the "Black Leaders" are making over this issue.
I guess it's more profitable to attempt to get people to stop using a particular
racial slur word that starts with "N" despite the fact that it's constitutionally protected
via the 1st Amendment.
Meanwhile black women are dying by alarming numbers. Black women are having
abortions in alarming numbers. Black women are becoming infertile in alarming numbers.
Yet we have all this time to focus on the N work and Hip Hop music?
O | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/30/2008 11:55:39 PM | I was shocked to hear these numbers. I've read articles that black women are more prone to diabetes or more likely to die of breast cancer, because healthcare is not often as good in poorer, predominantly black areas.
I've never heard these numbers though. If this many people were dying of cancer in a single location, there would be non-stop talk about a "cancer cluster," all kind of lawsuits, 24 hour coverage, etc. Etc.
Is it the sexual component that makes it harder to get this addressed? Are all the usual news/political avenues frozen, because people are afraid that if they even have a discussion that's even remotely about sexual habits of black women vs white women, there will be a racist connotation to it?
Its crazy! If this many people of any group; gender, cultural, racial, nationality, whatever were dying in droves, I would expect non-stop public service messages for them in the very least.
Do you think this is a problem of women being lead by emotion, as the woman who wrote the article suggests? Or do you think that all the public health services and government leaders (both black and white) can't figure out a way to navigate this issue in a politically correct enough way, and as a result people just aren't getting the pretty basic help that's needed in these certain city areas where the numbers are high? | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 12:57:55 AM | Brandie,
You said that people who have access to drugs are living? What evidence do you have of that? I am speeking specifically to the drug part, what proof do you have that pharmaceuticle drugs help people live longer, and quality lives?
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 1:08:13 AM | Obsidian71,
You make a heavey statement here.
"Meanwhile black women are dying by alarming numbers. Black women are having
abortions in alarming numbers. Black women are becoming infertile in alarming numbers."
Why do you think is that black women are having abortions at alarming rates? Do you think it's is being pushed on young black women more than young white women?
What evidence is there that black women are becomming infertile at unusually high rates? Is there an organization that you can point to that has researched this and made comparrsions?
What do you think are the causes of this infertility problem?
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 1:25:27 AM | This thread is the biggest bunch of hogwash I've seen in months. Whatever happened to intelligent reporting?
If people were truly concerned about AIDS, they'd not be having near as much sex...dang sure wouldn't have it without getting married. But then, the liberals will scream that abstinence isn't the right choice....in the case of HIV/AIDS, it's the ONLY 100% effective solution.
It's not like we can tell people to close their legs and stop being idiots about sex, is it?
In Pensacola, FL, 1 in 28 African-Americans either has HIV or Aids. You won't hear a tourist town putting those figures on the front page....usually buried far back in section E in small print. Of course, that's only the ones who have been TESTED that they're counting...wanna guess what that rate is going to be if EVERYONE got tested? | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 1:40:55 AM | Re msg 6. Well observed methinks, good points - made me wonder.
Re msg 2 and the concept of 'race as a social costruct' perusing 'Peru' (another social construct?). Seeing as so disproportionally many 'black' men are in the prison system in the US and the UK maybe these apathetic 'death camps' could provide clean needles or even concerned charities/ groups could smuggle 'em in alongside the contraband which is fixing this mess.
PS HIV positive mothers don't necessarily make HIV positive babies. Blood to blood sometimes via breast feeding can do - great marketing campaign/opportunity for dried milk formula s'pose. C'est le lait. | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 1:56:02 AM | Well, I think it can be argued that's the kind of thinking that caused this disease to reach epidemic proportions. People should just deal with the problem themselves, by simply not having sex. It may seem like "liberal nonesense" but even opening a dialogue to talk about the problem helps somewhat, at least more than the mere reliance on abstinence. Handing out condoms also helps. So does encouraging frequent testing. This stuff is not cutting edge. It has helped reduce the virus in the gay community significantly. But for some reason, these same programs can't find their way into poor black communities where poverty and iv drug use, leads to shared needles and creates a greater risk.
You can shrug and say "well, no one forced black people to engage in these behaviors" but its very convenient to see misfortune as something that happens to others, people with different skin color or culture, and that is precisely the attitude that prevents the problem from being addressed by the numbers. Why are we not able to simply say, as a public health matter, people living within a certain 10 square blocks in a certain city need a huge burst of medical and educational support to reverse a deadly disease that has taken hold, and not snicker and create fairytale racial explainations as to why their life and death situation is their fault?
Smokers consciously choose to expose themselves to disease every day for decades, much more directly than a 22 black girl who falls for a guy who is lying to her about his past and present habits. Yet society goes to enormous lengths to cure cancer and emphasema anyway, offers insurance incentives to entice people to quit and spends millions informing people what everybody knows; cigarettes kill. 33 percent of the country is obese and its entirely their own fault, yet every time I turn on tv there's some program designed to inform and encourage them to loose weight. Why are smokers and obese people worth saving despite their own complicity, yet a huge percentage of american black men and women should just suck it up and go die quietly, because their problems are somehow their own fault? | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 2:44:26 AM | There is a huge difference between misfortune and making bad choices. When a woman decides to have sex before marriage with a guy that's not been blood-tested, that's a bad choice. It has nothing to do with misfortune. Free testing is available in EVERY city. Heck, just go donate blood or plasma, they'll test it FOR you and you get paid for it.
Condoms are passed out at every free clinic I've ever stepped foot in. Condoms also break, tear, leak...all in all, they are a help, but when a lot of poor people want to get knocked up just so they can get more gov't green...well, obviously that's a little counterproductive in stopping an STD. Add to that lack of core family values. Add to that when Obama said that the black community should be More Responsible and then other black leaders down him for it?? No wonder there's such a mess.
The education is out there...cable channels carry plenty of info, and most HUD projects get...Free Basic Cable...big surprise. The clinics are there. The well-meaning liberals are even there going door to door. It doesn't help. As long as humans decide to be irresponsible for their own welfare, there are going to be problems and there is nothing anyone on the Outside can do about it.
If you think condoms are the answer, spend some time in the clinics as a volunteer...you'll get educated. In more ways than you'd think. Personal Responsibility is the ONLY way change can occur. Take it from Obama. | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 4:27:06 AM | This thread is the biggest bunch of hogwash I've seen in months. Whatever happened to intelligent reporting?
If people were truly concerned about AIDS, they'd not be having near as much sex...dang sure wouldn't have it without getting married. But then, the liberals will scream that abstinence isn't the right choice....in the case of HIV/AIDS, it's the ONLY 100% effective solution.
It's not like we can tell people to close their legs and stop being idiots about sex, is it?
I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that the "blame the liberals" schtick is just a way to justify one's own complacency.
If there is any substance to the numbers, then the conclusions are correct. So, in what way is it hogwash? Are you disputing the numbers or the logic?
The people who are having unprotected sex with partners from at-risk groups obviously aren't concerned about HIV/AIDS. THAT'S THE PROBLEM!!!
No liberal you will ever meet will argue against abstinence as a first choice. But unlike folks who think its perfectly fine to allow disaster to befall those who make mistakes in judgment, liberals often try to have a safety net in place for those who fail.
Safety net vs. no safety net. That is the salient difference between the liberal and the conservative approaches on many issues including this one.
You can tell people all you want just to keep their legs closed, but if they're idiots, what good will that do? If all it does is make you feel superior to tell them that, you are being irresponsible and justifying it with a self-righteous attitude.
That, my friend, is hogwash. | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 4:36:19 AM | 33 percent of the country is obese and its entirely their own fault, yet every time I turn on tv there's some program designed to inform and encourage them to loose weight.
Well, perhaps not entirely. Between all the corn syrup and the salt in the typical American diet, a person's endocrine system can get pretty screwed up.
This takes absolutely nothing away from your excellent post. I just wanted to put in a head's up that it's not about quantity of food, but about quality. Obese people are both poisoned and malnourished. A well-nourished body stops craving all that crap because its nutritional needs are satisfied. | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 8:03:59 AM | I said the epidemic in poor black neighborhood is "misfortune" and not personal choice because, though of course people do have a choice individually, there is a pervasive culture of poverty that they are born into and it strongly effects the choices they make, particularly in the absence of educational campaigns targeted at them.
To examine the obesity metaphor again, people are not always at fault, because they live in a culture where bad foods with corn syrup, etc have crept in to their regular diet as habit. It is still their choice to put food like this in their mouth.
Ace knows its about quality of food, because of the massive educational endeavors of government to bring this information to us. It doesn't always get to the "fattest" cities, so government redoubles their effort in those places, because, even though the info is there and people should be responsible for finding that info, it is in everyones interest to seek out overweight areas and encourage exercise and diet EVEN MORE, even though most of these people realize they are obese (its more obvious than being hiv positive). We try and help them because their good health is ultimately in eveyones best interest.
We undertake this effort for obese people, and obesity is not even contageous!
I agree with the previous poster, that there may be condoms available, yet people choose to have unprotected sex anyway. My point is, leaving the condom jar out is not sufficient, just like telling fat people not to eat food with corn syrup doesn't work alone. The choice to have sex unprotected is, in great part an EMOTIONAL issue, so relying on people to make an unassisted rational choice at that moment, while we talk about personal responsibility and irrational choices is totally lacking in common sense.
Why is it not in the news every day about the high incidece of hiv in the black community? Why is this the first time I've heard these numbers, though I am generaly aware of social and public health issues. Why are there no talk show/ pundits enraged on a daily basis that we are letting so many americans die on our own soil? | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 10:18:25 AM | Well, Oprah does alot for different charities, but she is a private person, so she's entitled to pursue whatever causes strike her fancy.
I would think the government should be held to a higher standard to address societal issues in order of importance (i.e., life and death issues to the top of the list). | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 10:43:01 AM |
We try and help them because their good health is ultimately in eveyones best interest.
This is the fundamental justification for _any_ social program. If you can demonstrate that everyone benefits from programs that target specific populations, and that those benefits exceed the costs of the program over its life, what that means is that _you,_ as an _individual_ come out ahead when tax dollars are used to fund that program.
Of course, the problem is how to demonstrate the net value of the program, and that is where ideology comes in. If you live in a world where tough shit is just tough shit, you won't see much value in anything except the money in your own pocket.
To those who see it that way my question is this: Why on Earth would you want to go on living in a world like that? I suppose it could be OK if you were able to guarantee that you'd always be a winner. But can you really guarantee that? | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 11:05:04 AM | Tesla, I re-read your post commenting on Oprah, and I realize I applied it to the "spending" part of my question and not the "enraged talk show host comment."
Yes, you are right. She should rail more at this. Her platform is usually "softer" like beauty products, movie stars and her crusading for young women and political issues is something she's only taken up recently, more as a celebrity than on her show.
Originally, I was thinking of the cross-fires and other shows where politics and government spending is the format of the show every day.
I guess Obsidian is right, that there's more money to be made on debating culture and theoretical identity issues rather than hard facts and disease. | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 11:54:34 AM |
Why do you think is that black women are having abortions at alarming rates? Do you think it's is being pushed on young black women more than young white women?
What evidence is there that black women are becomming infertile at unusually high rates? Is there an organization that you can point to that has researched this and made comparrsions?
What do you think are the causes of this infertility problem?
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Hardin9 I remember reading a recent article with some alarming statistics regarding AA women fertility rates. That coupled with fairly high abortion rates (which I believe are caused by poverity and delinquient fathers to be) have certainly had an effect. I'll see if there are any pertinent links. The good news is there are lots of AA women in college moving forward at a rapid pace.
O | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 12:08:41 PM | Wow, this board is getting scary.
A thread about whether or not Black Women are endangered. This is blatantly ridiculous. Black women, as a demographic are in no danger. Need proof? Take a trip to Nairobi.
I pointed out a relevant subtopic to this thread, that white people are facing the real danger of extinction.
What do you know? my post was deleted by the mods. So much for the 1st Amendment on this board.
It is becoming pathetic and sorry, the way the leftists on this board are silencing any opposition. Seems like the cold war Soviet Union. Hmmmm........ | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 12:32:20 PM | The 1st Amendment grants you protection from the Government in Free Speech not private institution.
I think the mods are pretty good at fleshing out insecure racists and silencing them. Sorry that you are dazed and confused and can't see the light but we don't have to suffer through your ignorance.
O | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 12:56:54 PM | In some countries women are endangered species,....because male children are the prefered, and girls are selectively aborted,....
This isn't because boys are sooo much cuter than girls but for the survival of the family, and because in many parts of the world girls are still being treated as non person's acording to culture and the law
In Chine for example the land of the one child only country,....(I understand the reasons why they went that route,...but)
It's been almost 30 years since China instituted its One Child Policy and this documentary focuses on one of the unfortunate side-effects: the black market for children. Child traders (or "traffickers") really believe they're performing a needed service for people so they are very comfortable talking about it
Here is what happened when this country adopted this rule,....
-A couple actually needs a permit to have a child,...without which you get no birth certificate,....or any legal documentation,...no passport, no marriage license, no license to have children of your very own some day,...and unlicensed children can't go to school,...
Anyone having a child without a license will either be urged to abort or have to pay a fine very few people can afford,....many people sell their extra children,...going rate is $1000 for a boy, $450 for a girl ..., and children are also snatched off the street and sold
(One comment that stayed with me was a comment by a child trafficker, who actually sold the younger of his own two boys,...he couldn't sell the older one because he could probably find his way back home,......
-boys are required to financially look after their aging parents,....no retirement fund here,...
so especially the poor families have few choices,.... a wife in china is expected to move in with her husbands family and look after them as well,....
I happen to have watched this documentary that was filmed in secret, recently which is where I came by this information,...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1126492/
this is just one country,....it's not the only one,....women are being selectively wiped out
until they finally figure out that we are needed to bear all those male children......
I believe India now has a seven to one ratio of male to female children,....
In some African countries aids is in fact wiping out parents and an overwhelming number of children are being raised by predominantly grandmother's
The threat to women is a global one and is not race specific except for all of us white women,....(we are not better ,...so far just lucky, and all too few of us know it),....
it's a crying shame more concern isn't raised to this,.... | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 12:58:25 PM | Acranger,
I believe the mods are Canadian as well, so they probably won't recoil at you comparing them to the Soviets, as that's kind of a USA knee jerk thing -- even 20 years after the wall came down. Anyway, the Chinese Government is much more oppresive in terms of free speach these days, so maybe you need to update your rhetoric.
And as for making this a racial issue, I don't think it is, strictly. "Black" people are not actually one race. Just like "White" people aren't. (Some "White" people are even former Soviets, if you can believe that!) but to the naked eye, they look very similar to Irish people once the accent falls away.
Color obsession in America really has very little to do with race, culture or nationality. It's just a knee jerk reaction to the obvious differences that the eye picks up right away and then the mind runs with all kinds of theories as to why people are how they are and why we do what we do.
The fact is, statistically and geographically, there is a group of people living in US cities, with not very much money and black skin, who need a lot more resources directed at AIDS prevention/awareness than they are currently getting. I don't see why that has to become a whole blame game and a cause for guilt, shame, or fairytale racist justifications on why funds shouldn't be "wasted" on saving their lives. | |
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