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| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/4/2008 10:05:47 PM | Surprisingly, a thread search turned up nothing regarding this issue America is faced with.
source--------- http://www.defend-america.net/id9.html
Facts about illegal immigration
1. $11 billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens
each year by state governments. Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77
2. $2.2 billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs
such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
3. $2.5 billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal
aliens. Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
4. $12 billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary
school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a
word of English! Verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html
5. $17 billion dollars a year is spent for education for the
American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
Verify at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
6. $3 Million dollars a DAY (1 BILLION, 95 MILLION annually) is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.htm
8. $90 billion dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare
& social services by the American taxpayers. Verify at:
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
9. $200 billion dollars a year in suppressed American wages are
caused by illegal aliens. Verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's
two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular,
their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in
the US. Verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt..01.html
11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens
that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens
from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth,
heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.
Verify at: Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht
12. The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of
mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average
cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period."
Verify at: http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf
13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back
to their countries of origin. Verify at:
http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex
Crimes is Committed By Illegal Immigrants In The United States" Verify
at: http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml
The total cost is a whopping $338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR!!
The cost of the war is a constant democratic theme, but they never complain about the cost of the massive illegal invasion into our country.
The cost of the war keeps us free from terrorism, but the cost we endure from illegal immigration only provides us with cheap lettuce. At a cost of 338 billion dollars I think we could combine that with the money wasted on welfare and put the idle to work.
Fiscally, how long can we continue to absorb these cost's?
Regardless of whatever political affiliations one might have, I believe this crisis has gotten to an unprecedented level. Add to the overwhelming cost already listed above, that our economy has been brought to it's knees in recent months, how is this NOT already on the minds of others living in the US?
As an aside, it's interesting to note that the cost for mass deportation (206-240 billion) is less than what the cost of one year amnesty will wind up costing taxpayers.
Again, I'm amazed this hasn't been brought up in other threads, so while we debate how well each candidate speaks in front of crowds, or whether or not Nader is going to swing any votes, or if McCain's age is an issue, or if Obama is really half white .......( ), how do you feel illegal immigration is going to impact the election? There doesn't appear much discussion on the subject.
Flamers, and trolls, please read. Comments regarding racism, naziism, hate, bigotry et al - will be dealt with accordingly.
As Politcally Incorrect as this topic may be, personal insults won't be tolerated.
Stick to the topic or reap what you sow.
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| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/4/2008 10:21:01 PM | Illegal immigration is only illegal on paper. It exists under the full authorization of the Federal Government and has for years. There is not now, nor has it ever been, any intention of dealing with this issue. It is an itentful population shift by design. The government has allowed this to occur because capitalism requires bottom feeders. It will also make it easier for them to usher in the North American Union. There is no point in even bringing it up. They will attempt to control the flow now that they have allowed 12+ million in. But they caome all day and all night still. They havent made a dent in it and have no intention of ever fully stopping it. California, Arizona and Texas should have told the Fed to pound sand years ago., But they love cheap labor too~
You have been sold out friend.... | |
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| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/4/2008 11:08:17 PM | manerider......
I want to add to your post by attempting to put illegal immigration into proper perspective. Let's take a look at our country before we became the United States. That was when we were under the rule of Great Britian. What did the English do? The British Empire spread the culture of prosperity around the globe — Judeo-Christian values, tolerance, equality, private property and the rule of law. All recipients of the British Empire's largesse benefited, but the empire's most successful colony was the United States. Yes, this country absorbed huge migrations of illiterate peasants in the past but notably, half of them went back. We got the good ones. America was not yet a welfare state guaranteeing room and board to the luckless, the lazy and the incompetent from cradle to grave.
However, the problem today is that we are getting illegals who are fleeing cultures that are utterly dysfunctional and ruinous for the humans who live in them. Too many of them do not want to absorb our Anglo-Saxon virtues and assimilate into American society. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis, immigrant and first Jewish member of the Supreme Court, said that Americanization required that the immigrant adopt "the clothes, the manners and the customs generally prevailing here" and that he adopt "the English language as the common medium of speech." But, Brandeis said, this is only part of it. "(W)e properly demand of the immigrant even more than this — he must be brought into complete harmony with our ideals and aspirations and cooperate with us for their attainment. Only when this has been done will he possess the national consciousness of an American."
Unfortunately, too many of these illegal aliens are not willing to be inculcated with the foundations of civic society and patriotism that was instilled in our early immigrants. Until the recipient culture is capable of doing an effective job of Americanizing immigrants, it's preposterous to talk about a massive influx of Hispanic immigrants accomplishing anything other than turning America into yet another Latin American-style banana republic. It is simply a fact that no one is trying to turn immigrants into Americans. Both parties are doing nothing to stop this onslaught. Democrats are trying to turn new immigrants into wards of the state so they will be permanent Democratic voters. Republicans are trying to turn immigrants into a permanent servant class, which will work for minimum wage.
One of the greatest threats to our civilization is the onslaught of these illegal aliens from Mexico and the heavy burden they are placing on the taxpayers and the law enforcement community. The papers are full of stories of cities whose hospitals have been forced to close, because of illegals who have no insurance/money demanding free health care. Consequently, there are many instances of Americans dying in ambulances on their way to hospitals that are miles and miles from their home, because the hospitals nearby to their homes were closed, because of the heavy burden of caring for illegals. American children are being taught in trailers in some of the border cities, because there are so many illegal alien children residing there and not enough tax dollars to build additional schools. Cities are on the verge of bankruptcy, because they are forced to dole out dollars to illegals. My last point is that the cable news channels are full of stories about illegals killing Americans.
Your query is "Fiscally, how long can we continue to absorb these costs?" It has to stop now, because, as I noted above, cities are on the verge of bankruptcy.
You made mention of racism, nazism, hate bigotry, and etc. The topic of illegal aliens has nothing to do with the aforementioned; it is a matter of "the rule of law." People who come here illegally are breaking the law. Therefore, illegals should not be entitled to any type of benefits, other than a choice of free room and board in jail or a free plane ticket back to their native country. | |
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| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/4/2008 11:50:31 PM | Californians put a ballot measure out there to stop giving illegals any assistance, several years ago. Latinos also supported it, as 66% of them voted for it.
Unfortunately, liberal attack groups like MALDEF and the ACLU sued in court, and a liberal judge struck the law down, completely trashing the voters wishes. Gray Davis (D)was the governor then. He had the opportunity to appeal the court's decision, but eventually decided not to. Worst governor we have ever had. Hands down. As he was on his way out, many felt he just didn't care about us.
This is a problem that both sides of the aisle don't seem to understand.
SD | |
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| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/5/2008 1:06:10 AM | SD, I appreciate your comments, especially on this subject. Before talking with you, I was unaware of what MALDEF and ACLU have 'conspired' in doing to us, with regard to this issue. My question remains, IS there a solution? And, is this election going to bring about ANY change to this new horizon? As mentioned, deportation would cost us roughly (or less) what 1 year amnesty would cost us. What say you? DO you believe either candidate favors restructuring? I heard McCain favors amnesty, but don't quote me on that.
Marieleah, very eloquently put, I must say.
With regard to your last comments, a previous thread on this subject was posted (by me) in current events, which took on a great deal of the aforementioned chants from con-anti-illegal, and as well, many hateful remarks from pro-anti-illegal participants. It was deleted because of it's charged subject matter and those comments. So, with that in mind, I thought I might preface this thread to diminish some of the crossfire, so as to deal more specifically with the content of what's really happening.
We have two parties dedicated to exploiting as much as they can out of illegals, with no regard to what happens to our Country in the process. Isn't that cutting off ones nose to spite their face?
A Latin American style Banana Republic seems an ever so fitting depiction of where we are heading, if nothing changes on this horizon. I, for one, wish to have some impact in the recovery/prevention process, if by no other means, by posing this question- what do we do? Americans have become a back porch society; and as long as something isn't directly affecting them , they choose to ignore the problems. Since 9/11, I've often wondered- what - is ever going to bring people to their front porches again? Why are we a nation of solitude? Hasn't this change in our culture become detrimental and how do we make people aware that their interest is at stake, whether they take interest or not?
There was a time not very long ago, when families joined together for dinner on the lawn, they knew each others issues, good and bad, and they communed for the good of all. Now, no one seems to take one glance at what's happening next door. We drive our cars straight through the open garage door, and it slams shut behind, without even a wave or nod to our neighbors. How many times do you see people running to help when someones car alarm or burglar alarm goes off? Are we really so far removed from the social parameters we once were known for, the glue that bonded us as a nation, the true unity of our soverign nation, to the degree that we completely ignore what happens in our own neighborhoods, and on our streets? Things have changed, no doubt.
I'm aware cities are beginning to feel the crunch of what's taking place. Yet, there's hardly a mention in public news regarding the issues presented here. Why is that? Are we to be so censored by our media that they cannot even make mention of what's potentially going to destroy us? But, the slow cancerous effects of what's happening now.... seems preventable, if we act. If not, we let the cancer grow, and fester, and we, and the politicians who rode out those voting blocks, won't have a pot to p!ss in or a window to throw it out of.
Thank you Marieleah. Very interesting | |
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| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/5/2008 3:46:06 AM | The bottom line is that this issue will not effect the election at all. It won't even be brought up because both major candidates are both pandering for votes from the voting block who don't see a problem.
Sadly that leaves people who think this issue is a problem and needs to be addressed without another round of amnesty without a voice and without a candidate.
I think you haven't seen much discussion because the discussion always turns negative and racism is blurted out and the admin's have to close/delete the thread. Sad when people fall back on that when they have no other logical argument. It is kind of like saying "well f*ck you" and thinking you won the argument! | |
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| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/5/2008 3:52:46 AM | | None at all because non-citizens cannot vote in presdental elections, and double voting is a felony. Immigration system is irrational already and one side wants to kick out 12 million people and another wants to give them amnesty. The middle ground apporach to immigration reform is needed and Bush tried. The reality is wages in Mexico are six times lower than Untied States and to reduce northward immigraton is reducing the wage disparties. We can learn something from the the European Union about how apporach the problem. The freeloading of benefits of the taxpayer is wrong, and Austrailan apporach to immigration would be ideal for United States get all the skilled workers, but reduce the family chaian based immigration. Still, Immigration could be better controlled by figuring out reduce the wage disparites between Mexico and the Untied States that alone would reduce immigration by 50%. | |
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| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/5/2008 5:46:35 AM | Remove Incentives to Enter Illegally
Obama will remove incentives to enter the country illegally by cracking down on employers who hire undocumented immigrants.
McCain will grow the government and make employers jump through more hoops for a new bureau in the government to verify all workers are legal only AFTER building a fence.
Funny thing is the fence will never work as long as employers pay for the illegal workers.
I say give the employers 5 years mandatory time behind bars and seise their assets as the proceeds of a corrupt organization. If the government did that, the illegals would run back across the borders ASAP. | |
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| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/5/2008 5:56:29 AM |
We can learn something from the the European Union
Dont worry, we are headed right at that. its called the north american union, and its currency the Amero. It spells the death of the U.S. but as long as were are not hurting others feelings. We cant expect them to be accountable for their own country or anything, we will just kill ours to accomidate your failures. And people wonder whats wrong with our country>?>>> Were raging co dependents... | |
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| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/5/2008 6:01:14 AM |
I want to add to your post by attempting to put illegal immigration into proper perspective. Let's take a look at our country before we became the United States. That was when we were under the rule of Great Britian. What did the English do? The British Empire spread the culture of prosperity around the globe
LOL was that before or after they slaughtered your family. And of course we know how empires stand the test of time. We are in the midst of a World Empire under takiung right now. And population shifts are part of that effort. | |
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NERO1
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 11 | |
| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/5/2008 7:08:49 AM | QUOTE: Illegal immigration is only illegal on paper. It exists under the full authorization of the Federal Government and has for years. There is not now, nor has it ever been, any intention of dealing with this issue. It is an itentful population shift by design. The government has allowed this to occur because capitalism requires bottom feeders
^^ I find this to be a very insightful and useful way of looking at the situation, as well as a perspective from which many Americans usually don't ever seem to look at it. I always have found it ironic for instance, very ironic, when I hear for example GOP voters (devout free marketeers and capitalists, presumably) railing about this topic.
In this case, a large part of it has to do with inherent flaws in some of their own most cherished beliefs about economics and such. America, one of the world capitals of capitalism essentially, is today being gored by its own bull, so to speak.
To effectively "crack down" on the big corporations and major money intere$ts would require something that is anathema to most conservatives: more gov't intervention into business. But we can't do that, right? Because the poor corporatists are already under enough of a burden as it is in this country, which is after all so far away from the laissez-faire "ideal" .
For the record, I'm not anti-capitalism or anti-free market (I'm basically a 'social-democrat'), but I'm also not anti-gov't intervention into business because , obviously, in many cases it's simply necessary. But big corporations are at heart undemocratic internationalist entities, whose only true allegiance is to the dollar (or Euro, or Yen, etc.). They'd sh!t all over everything from the environment, to the workers , to their "host countries" (far worse than they already do) if there weren't ANY gov't oversight, agencies, as well as unions of course, etc, to rein them in.
And this exploitation of undocumented workers (which also of course fuels this ongoing 'crisis', or debate or what-have-you inside this country) is clearly another one of those areas where more oversight and more actual intervention into corporate business is required. But that won't happen, realistically, because the degree to which it would probably be necessary to intervene would run counter to the prevailing political ideology here. And Americans won't stand for that.
A GOP'er campaigning against gov't intervention into business would win in this country, over a left'ish Democrat actually campaigning for it. And then the conservatives who voted in the party of Big Business and Big Money Interests, yet again, would all sit around and bemoan the still undealt with illegal immigration issue. As the poster above stated, "capitalism requires bottom feeders". It certainly does.
Global inequality (obviously, realistically unavoidable to some degree); "free trade" as opposed to something approaching "fair trade"; corporate greed and exploitation, all are key things which are at the root of this issue. This is why you're unlikely to see even a potential McCain admin do anything serious about this problem.
In the meantime, everyday people affected by this issue in their personal lives will have to simply suck it up and continue taking it for the team, so to speak. Corporations care about peoples' individual complaints about their neighborhoods, and so on, even less than the fed'l gov't does.
And if Spanish becomes a requirement for a job in your area, and you need said job, then do it the GOP-style American way; pull yourself up "by the bootstraps", as they say, buy a Rosetta Stone, and make yourself more marketable. After all, this is America isn't it? Where anyone can succeed with enough drive. What's apparently being required today of more and more Americans in many parts of the country today is (for the first time) some degree of fluency in another language besides just American-English. Adaptation is key to survival. | |
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| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/5/2008 7:59:12 AM | show me what other languages you speak that you are fluent in for you livelihood?
rosetta stone costs a few hundred dollars at this point; i dont see it as a party issue, both parties want open borders for their own agendas.
we are making a bad trade. real bad.
in order for about a thousand super rich families to prosper, and to have low prices on certain goods, we are allowing ANYONE in who wants to be here for whatever reason.
this costs us in services, atmosphere and morale, taxes and huge government costs that could go to other areas. it will catch up to us to us as these illegals are legitimized due the lax attitude and enforcement, so that they will control the country in the future. not right away, but within 20 years. without any caring or background in the country's history, laws, language, morals and morays, they will be voters, the kind of thing the founding fathers were afraid of and why they probably installed the electoral college.
which of course the democrats are busy underminng at this point. | |
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| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/5/2008 8:08:11 AM | I don't think the illegal immigration issue will have any kind of effect on the coming election at all; because both parties have almost identical positions, which is "Don't p*ss anybody off".
It's one of those things that proves we really don't have very much of a democratic system in this country at all, because the citizens have no say in it. Neither party is listening.
To me, this is an extremely important issue and it's really screwing up our country; but government has taken a "just say no" policy toward the vast majority of voters who want to close the borders to illegal immigration. | |
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NERO1
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 14 | |
| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/5/2008 8:25:43 AM | QUOTE: this costs us in services, atmosphere and morale, taxes and huge government costs that could go to other areas. it will catch up to us to us as these illegals are legitimized due the lax attitude and enforcement, so that they will control the country in the future. not right away, but within 20 years. without any caring or background in the country's history, laws, language, morals and morays, they will be voters, the kind of thing the founding fathers were afraid of and why they probably installed the electoral college.
^^ I don't think it is why they installed it at all. They were revolutionaries, yes, but they were also landed WASP elitists as well, and at the time the "unwashed masses" , so to speak, THEY felt simply could not or should not be trusted with the vote in their new revolutionary gov't.
They could never have foreseen, IMO, their little experimental New England-turned-USA becoming the hugely ethnically and racially-mixed "melting pot" and global superpower that it is today. Much less foreseen the creation of a Mexico as its southern neighbor, wholly independent from the Kingdom of Spain, where the local peoples therein would be financially in dire straits as a result of globalization and free trade and such and therefore seek to move north into much of what we now call the South and Southwest (which was then, after all, not a part of the USA in any case).
The founding fathers were interesting men with a grand vision, no doubt; but they were not able to see the distant future. This world today would be as alien to them as it would be to someone from 2,000 yrs ago. In fact, given the vast changes since the Industrial and technical revolutions , and transportation revolution, the founding fathers might well have had a far easier time comprehending the world of 2,000 yrs ago as opposed to today's world.
Furthermore, and I stress that I know (trust me , I know) they came here legally, etc, what you said above about "they will control the country in the future, not right away , but within 20 years....without any...background in the country's history...", etc, is very very similar if not identical to what "nativist" white Americans said about the incoming tidal waves of "new immigrants" at the turn of the last century. Everyone from Latin Europeans (the quotas were put in place in the 19-teens to stem the tide of southern Euro "undesirables" and the "Latin crime wave" which the Americans thought they saw coming...), to Greeks and Slavs, and of course Jews.
And by 50 or 60 yrs later, America had Jewish-and Italian-Americans running major cities such as Chicago and NYC , police dept's, etc etc. They/ WE held onto parts of their/OUR own native culture(s) and yet they (or WE) also adapted, intermarried, intermingled, and Americanized.
Who's to say that within 25 or 30 more years the Hispanic central American immigrants (granted, some of whose parents or grandparents MAY well have come here undocumented) will not follow a very very similar pattern?
Another part of this whole issue is that this country is simply changing, once again, as it did 80 or 100 yrs ago with the "new immigrants" who permanently changed it from predominantly WASP (with perhaps some Irish) to the vastly mixed Euro (and "other") "melting pot" which it still is today.
With change, and growth, always comes "growing pains". That's part of what we're going through here now, as a society, IMO. It will pass. But the change will continue, I firmly believe, regardless, and we will within another generation or so see a Hispanic-American population (predominantly Mexican-American probably) which will be much larger than it is today, easily the largest minority community in this country (as I believe it already is). Spanish will (once again --- the Spaniards were here first actually ...... Florida, in the 1500's...) be a prominent language on this land. One way or the other. | |
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| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/5/2008 5:46:32 PM | WHITES=ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS
And have been since 1492. How arrogant can a group of people be to call another group illegal when their very own DNA traces to this continent....lol! The ultimate hypocrisy and gag.
Hey! I here Europe is a good place for you guys to go back to. If they'll even be receptive to you. I hear they are not privy on culturally ignorant white Americans.
Besides, I hear it's going to get pretty dark around here soon...lol!
So before anyone says anything stupid in response....I am a third generation American raised and born, have always worked hard and payed taxes and never took a red penny from the system and am also a Gulf War vet.
It's ok to come to this country as long as you are white...lol!
America became a super power by immigration. You don't think it was built by a bunch of dumb red necks do you??
Cheap labor is how this country was built....on the backs of immigrants. | |
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| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/5/2008 6:15:47 PM | Your tally is a bit odd, you count billions for deportation and the money sent home but not spent on goods here? The whopping $338 bil is crap.
HOWEVER, there are some real issues and youre right, I'm not hearing much from either one or really ANY one on a very significant issue.
All I am hearing is bullshit and spin and innuendo, like something out of the Enquirer. | |
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| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/5/2008 6:54:29 PM |
Your tally is a bit odd, you count billions for deportation and the money sent home but not spent on goods here? The whopping $338 bil is crap.
Aww, Stef, you know the drill....... messengers..... dont' shoot the messenger. Not trying to trump it up, just passing on what I've seen. Who's to say, really, considering they couldn't even do a head count. Somewhere between 12 mil and 30-mil, depending on who's counting. Lots of zero's.
HOWEVER, there are some real issues and youre right, I'm not hearing much from either one or really ANY one on a very significant issue.
All I am hearing is bullshit and spin and innuendo, like something out of the Enquirer It is a bit disheartening, to say the least, that no one is really even discussing this issue? Meanwhile, hecklers chant at the mere thought of even bringing it up, and cite spaniards as having been the first to conquer in 1492. (No offense Nero, I'm actually thinking of others much less diplomatic than you ) But even if that were true, which I'm not contesting who actually touched ground first, spaniards, mxicans, NA's, boundaries were established long since that time in history, wars were won, laws were enacted, and yet nothing is done to uphold the laws. But, let me have a couple cold ones and drive home, and damn if I won't see what justice is about.
I guess what's really itchin at me is..... why is this such a silent topic. (I know, voters blocks left and right). So, shit, let's just enshrine a few, give them the key to our cities, and just say fvk it, right.?
I'm just amazed that, amidst all this talk on who's going to be our upcoming leaders, no one really talks about this issue. It's a moot point, apparently. I've been schooled pretty hard on the fact that NO one's going to do anything because the big dawgs in Washington have more important issues, than what amounts to a real problem for the lowly voting class of people who they purportedly represent? Ok, I'm getting it. As they say, "water eventually seaps through concrete. Sometimes, though, it just takes a VERY long time." | |
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| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/5/2008 7:02:54 PM | manerider,
you pose your question as if you are serious about finding a solution to this problem. and then you post a list of supposed facts which are not facts at all.
if you searched the web, you can also find reports by real scientists that show that those illegal aliens offer a net benefit to our society and economy.
you only focus on the debits and not on the credits. and some of the items on that list are flat out lies purposefully put out there by hate groups.
for example, 30% of incarcerations are illegal aliens. a flat out lie that has been propagated by CIS, Center on Immigration Studies. the center on immigration studies is one of the many anti-immigration group founded by John Tanton. A white supremecist with a preference for eugenics. | |
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| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/5/2008 9:31:02 PM | ^^^^^
So what I say is this. Let let the Aztlan movement have Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California. Then you will just have a bigger Mexico. Then, they will come knocking on the door of Wyoming, donde esta la trbajo? Mi casa es su casa... get over it pal. I want reservations and reparations ... now
I'll second that^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
According to many in California, they already do own/encompass much of those states.
Eriksfbay,
With all due respect, I would challenge the notion that illegal immigration is having a positive outcome regarding net benefits. Cis may not be your choice for material, but I didn't see a url for supporting your contentions, either. The mere fact that illegal aliens send much of their monies home is a clear example that that money is not being redistributed into our economy.
You would argue, also, that lost wages among Americans is not a real concern, yes?
Let me be specific. My point of contention is for illegals, not mexicans, per se, those who wish to live under our laws or reside here legally. Many arguements have been addressed regarding illegals as "all mexicans or immigrants." Not so. What many people are concerned with are the millions who are simply visiting here, working at sub-par income levels, funneling their monies home, with no intentions of staying here. That is the major riff, along with many concerns listed in the aforementioned categories. Whether 1/3 of our prison system is illegal OR mexican illegal is not really an issue, as we both know MANY mexican illegals are tied up in jails across the nation, and there's a cost to taxpayers to house and feed them. Not much arguement to that. They're also on welfare, government subsidies, and there's a taxation on the schools, hospitals, and other state or federally funded fascilities that is being ignored. Meanwhile, no one really discusses this issue, except to say that neither party is willing to look at the issues, based on their voting blocks, which is simply amazing to me, since illegals "are not supposed to vote".
One main reason the illegal immigration is a problem is that they're unskilled in many ways, but especially because they're uneducated, thus rendering very little with regards to what they're contributing to our social framework. Taking up some of the lower income/poverty level jobs, flipping burgers, picking fruit et al, has little redeeming effect. I'd rather pay more for fruits/vegetables than to see our hospitals shut down or our cities on the verge of bankruptcy. | |
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| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/5/2008 9:36:39 PM | Honestly, there are some posters here, who, if I ever saw them post anything of substance, while using sources, I would probably fall out of my chair.
With regards to how illegals might impact an election.... a few links about how they vote....enjoy. Salsa, available upon request.......
http://www.illegalaliens.us/votefraud.htm
http://www.usbc.org/media/voting.htm
http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?id=15837
http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/2008/07/15/votinged.html
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/03/03/terrific-illegal-alien-students-registering-us-voters/
Yo tengo muchas mas!!! They aren't "just picking tomatoes" folks. | |
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| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/5/2008 9:42:10 PM | | My friend, your substance is the same old crap that has been regurgitated for years. David Duke was protesting on the border in the early 1970's. Point being reactionary politics is as old as you are and has amounted to dry crap. Everyone knows the deal, and SO WHAT? Figures and impacts dont mean anything. The machine wants illeagal aliens, and they will get them as long as they want them. And there is not a damn thing you can do about it, Nothing. So keep on singing the same old tune, decade after decade....Means nothing. And the only thing tha twill change it is when politicians are dragged into the street and and shot. They feel no threat from you, so they just give you a golden shower and laugh at you... | |
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| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/5/2008 9:42:55 PM | i think whether they provide a net benefit or subtract value is immaterial.
i think both sides agree that something needs to be done.
what's obvious is that someone is benefitting.
personally i feel the republicans actually love illegal aliens because they put pressure on unions and push wages down which keeps profits up.
for this reason, reagan simply accepted a mass amnesty and bush jr allowed workplace enforcement to dwindle to only 3 fines and less than 500 illegal aliens arrested at worksite raids in 2003 and 2004 respectively. (that is until the recent hysteria)
the republicans don't care if illegals put pressure on schools and prisons. they want to privatize education and prisons anyway. more customers! more public money goes to business. they're bankrupting the country anyway. | |
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| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/5/2008 9:46:40 PM | in addition, the average working wage in america has remain virtually unchanged since reagan became president. (adjusted for inflation) that's 30 years without change.
alan greenspan actually suggested that immigration be used as a tool to keep wages down and profits up. however, when it came to the subject of CEO pay which is over 400 times the non-supervisory employee wage, greenspan said, we should not interfere in letting the market decide ceo salary.
however, it's the republicans who are getting votes pretending to be anti-immigration...so the jokes on repubs. | |
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| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/5/2008 9:50:38 PM | i don't think the US has helped it's cause by
1. pressuring mexico to accept relaxed rules governing the flow of currency and allowing american speculators to ruin the mexican economy like they did during the mexican peso crisis.
2. striking pitiful trade deals with china that make it impossible for american and mexican factories alike to compete.
both of these crisis have caused millions of jobs in mexico. they came here looking for work? what a shocker. | |
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| Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/5/2008 9:55:18 PM | Alto! Calmate'! LOL....slow your roll.....
When did it become the job of the US Govt to fix Mexico's problems??? Their problems stem from an extraordinarily corrupt Government...Federally and Locally.
Problem ONE with Mexico.......our border........and how their govt' helps send their people through illegally. Until that is fixed.......we ain't talkin deals.
Ya estuvo! | |
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