| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/12/2005 1:03:22 AM | Does the church really teach the Hebrew Jesus or the Roman Mithra ?
Mithra born of a virgin December 25 in a cave attended by shepherds ..
Mithra considered a great traveling teacher and master ..
Mithra had 12 companions ..
Mithra followers promised immortality ..
Mithra performed miracles ..
Mithra sacrificed himself for world peace ..
Mithra was buried in a tomb after three days rose again ..
Mithra's resurrection celebrated every year ..
Mithra was called the good shepherd and identified with the lamb and lion ..
Mithra was considered the way and the light , Logos , Reedeemer , Savior , Messiah ..
Mithra'sacred day is Sunday ..
Mithra had a Lords supper , He said he who will not eat of my body and drink of my blood so he can be one with me and I him , shall not be saved ..
Mithra had a celebration that later became Easter ..
Mithra was pictured with long loose hair as all Roman and Greek gods was ..
Mithra started off a Persian God and made his way in time to Rome by the time of Rome his story had grown to match the story of Jesus as foretold by the prophets..
Now all you have to do is change the name to Jesus--birth date from December to around October - shorten the hair -and you have the Lord Jesus .. That is how the Roman Catholic Church replace Jesus with the pagan god Mithra ..
The image of the good shepherd is of Orpheus .. The cross taken from Odin's wheel and other sources .To name a couple of pagan images the church uses .. | |
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/12/2005 9:28:16 AM | actually, a very good case can be made that Roman Pagan Mithra "borrowed" Jewish teaching in the Old Testament. Christianity does not need any outside influence to derive any of its doctrines. All the doctrines of Christianity exists in the Old Testament:
the prophetic teachings of Jesus as the son of God (Zech. 12:10),
born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14),
was crucified (Psalm 22),
the blood atonement (Lev. 17:11),
rose from the dead (Psalm 16:10),
and salvation by faith (Heb. 2:4).
When was the Old Testament written? Given that all of the Christian themes are found in the Old Testament and the Old Testament was begun around 2000 B.C. and completed around 400 B.C., it is a very good conclusion that these pagan religions actually borrowed from Jewish ideas found in the Old Testament.
and finally, these 12 apostles were average people, not the Roman elite. They were fishermen, carpenters, etc. They did not become pillars of Christian faith until AFTER the death of Christ. Also, since they were writing about Jesus, they were writing based upon what He taught: truth, love, honesty, integrity, etc.
With one exception, each one of the apostles was tracked down like an animal, suffered greatly, arrested beaten and killed. At any time, their lives would of been spared if they recanted what they were saying. Why then would they lie and make up stories and suffer great persecution, hardships, ridicule, arrest, beatings, and death all for known lies and fabrications from paganism? There really, to me, is one answer. They never recanted because they were saying things they saw with their own eyes. | |
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/12/2005 9:49:45 AM | | How about the possibility of both religions stemming from a common,as yet undiscovered and more ancient source? | |
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/12/2005 10:00:33 AM | nice meeting you taurus,
in a sense, I like that too. Certainly, I am open to the possibility.
I guess if I had to describe myself, I would be a liberal Christian. I think most religions have grains of truth in them, but as a world community, we are way too intollerant of another view. If we could only understand that all of us are cut from the same cloth.
Maybe, when Jesus said "I am the light and the way. No one sees the father without coming through me.", maybe he meant the Spirit that was in him. The same spirit that spoke to Confuscious, or Buddah, or Krishna. Did he really intend for everyone to worship his physical body, or the spirit that was living in it?
There have been several people over time who have been elightened, no doubt. Maybe, the same source is speaking to all of them. That would make sense to me. | |
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/12/2005 12:34:38 PM | Hey guys, I don't feel like writing much right now but, I have one point I'd like to add. Acts chapter 8 contains a story of Simon the sorcerer, who was converted by Peter to the way.
Simon did not understand the gospel, nor the Holy Ghost. it is a interesting read.
there are cults that grew up around Christianity changing customs and times, and doctrines. Jehova's witnesses, Mormonism, The apostate church
changed many of the original teachings of the apostles. Revelations 1, 2,3 shows Jesus' take on those that make changes in the way. Mithra is not Jesus. The religion of mithra is not the gospel of Jesus Christ. However, the evil one is good at imitating God and raising up false prophets to decieve if it were possible the very elect. I have a friend who is convinced that Jesus Christ is alive and living in California. He has a cult that follows him and everything. Is he the real Jesus? How do you know? | |
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/12/2005 12:34:41 PM |
actually, a very good case can be made that Roman Pagan Mithra "borrowed" Jewish teaching in the Old Testament. Christianity does not need any outside influence to derive any of its doctrines. All the doctrines of Christianity exists in the Old Testament:
the prophetic teachings of Jesus as the son of God (Zech. 12:10),
You might want to read the verses before and after that. None of that stuff happened around the time of Jesus. Nor does it say anything about the Messiah being the son of God.
born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14),
This is a mistranslation. The Hebrew word actually translates as young woman. Anyway, it can't be about Jesus because it's about someone named Immanuel. And read the context of the passage. None of that stuff happened around the time of Jesus.
was crucified (Psalm 22),
No mention of crucifixion here. Just something Christians interpret to be crucifixion.
the blood atonement (Lev. 17:11),
This is about animal sacrifice. Or do you think God normally accepts human sacrifices?
rose from the dead (Psalm 16:10),
Ressurection was a pretty common motif. Interestingly Jesus said he'd rise after three days, but rose after the second.
and salvation by faith (Heb. 2:4).
That's the NT.
Hope this helps. | |
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/12/2005 12:37:25 PM |
there are cults that grew up around Christianity changing customs and times, and doctrines. Jehova's witnesses,
Actually the JW's have removed pagan doctrines that have entered Christianity. | |
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/12/2005 12:53:31 PM | Im starting to like ol Starjem  This was a very interesting thread Starjem, Keep em asking question's!
O.T. Mithra alllll the wayyyy baby! | |
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/12/2005 1:06:34 PM | Just my thoughts
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Yes I believe Mithra took from the Hebrew prophets his story grew along with every new thing foretold about the Lord Jesus ..I also fully agree the apostles bore witness of the miracles and teachings of Jesus to suffer martyrdom beatings and such as they did ..
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It is possible all religions come from an ancient source GOD who put himself in all his creations hearts .. The different religions are the confusion after the fall of Adam and man drifted farther away from GOD .. So all religions have a measure of truth to them that is why all through history and around the world they share similar themes ..
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When the Roman Catholic Church adopted the pagan images and holidays of the olympian gods it wasn't a honest mistake , it was to maintain the power and authority it knew..They took books from the Bible by the hundreds about 600 is estimated that didn't agree with the doctrines of Rome and the Roman Catholic Church .. To listen to the church a group of good just men went and sat down and decided the right books of the Bible , in truth they fought and argued about the books of the Bible , for the church to say there was no wolves in sheeps clothing guided by their own lust power greed culture beliefs in on all this is a ridiculous statement .The image of a group of men going in and picking the right books of the Bible is false as late as 1500 AD they were still fighting over the books . Each one wanting his picks included in the Bible and the rest rejected .. See the Christian Cannon--Don Closson
( Note ) I mean no ill will against Catholics every religion has it wolves in sheeps clothing . | |
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/12/2005 1:14:42 PM | | From what I've heard, a lot of the Mithra religion was based on Sumerian myths. Lots of things in the Bible are clear borrowings from the Sumerian religion. | |
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/12/2005 1:31:44 PM | the story of Noah is a Sumerian legend, from the old and ancient Epic of Gilgamesh. There are over 300 various stories of a worldwide flood across the globe.
That opens itself up to a good discussion too, about whether there can be a tie-in to some ancient catastrophe, the flood of Noah, and the legend of Atlantis, with its survivors spreading across the world.
To the Count, all that was cited in the OT was correct, and was a prelude to the ultimate sacrifice, Jesus being the lamb for the world at the time. They are clearly connected and foretell each other, this issue not even debated among scholars. | |
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/12/2005 2:17:54 PM |
To the Count, all that was cited in the OT was correct, and was a prelude to the ultimate sacrifice, Jesus being the lamb for the world at the time. They are clearly connected and foretell each other, this issue not even debated among scholars.
They should be debated by scholars. Almost every Messianic prophecy that Jesus is said to have fulfilled can be shown to either not be Messianic, not be fulfilled, or something that no one can verify. The few he has fulfilled are trivial (like riding into Jerusalem on an ass). | |
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/12/2005 6:33:43 PM | | Jesus can be reffered to as Emmanuel. Matthew 1:25. | |
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/12/2005 6:44:11 PM | Enchantress,
I am coming to consider you to be a basically good and spiritual person. Jesus is sacred to me, and I would be quick to defend that Jesus road into Jerusalem on a donkey, before the passover, just before he died. The referred prophesy was like King Hezekiah? I believe, don't want to take the time to look it up just now. But by riding in on a donkey, he was showing himself to be king I believe. The things that Jesus did were to fulfill the prophesies, and to fulfill the requirement that sin be paid for by death. By dying for us, we can be redeemed from spiritual darkness. To put his death in perspective, He was the sacrifice that ended all other blood sacrifices. He went to his death knowing this. He was obedient to the greatest extreme. No greater love hath a man than this, that he would lay down his life for his friends. | |
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/12/2005 7:04:24 PM | The Greek word for Lord is Kyrios, which may mean "master" or "sir". "Lord should not be confused with Lord the word which is printed in all capital letters and used to represent God"s special name "Yahweh" pronounced as 9YAH-way) Hebrew is written as so...YHWH
. In the roman empire, "Lord" was used for Ceaser and indicated his absolute power as monarch, but did not mean he was a god. "Lord" appears as a title for Jesus in the New Testament and declares his royal authority as the one who was raised from the dead to sit at God's right hand. Practically speaking, "Lord" functions in the same way as "christ" another royal title. When Peter addressed, he said, "Everyone in Israel should then know for certain that God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ, even though you put him to death on a cross" (Acts 2.36)
Another example is found in aramaic form, maran, which means "Our Lord," and was to designate the king in the royal courts. (1Cor 16.22, Rev 22.20)
marathana ("our Lord, come)
An ancient Hymm that Paul quoted said,
"So at the name of Jesus everyone will bow down, those in heaven, on earth, and under the earth. And to the glory of God the father everyone will openly agree, "Jesus Christ is Lord!" (Phil2.10-11). | |
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/12/2005 10:50:50 PM | | Matthew 1:25 says that the son of Joseph and Mary was named Jesus. Obviously Jesus wasn't called Immanuel. Looks like Immanuel Lewis is more likely to be the Messiah than Jesus. | |
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/13/2005 1:35:50 AM |
Almost every Messianic prophecy that Jesus is said to have fulfilled can be shown to either not be Messianic, not be fulfilled, or something that no one can verify. The few he has fulfilled are trivial (like riding into Jerusalem on an ass).
But time and time again, since over and over again, didn't Jesus appealed to these very Old Testament prophecies to substantiate His claim as the Messiah. Do you not think the people he was talking to were aware of these prophecies and exactly what they meant?
gosh, where do I begin? How about here for a start?
Old Testament (Isaiah 40:3) - Messiah would be preceded by a messenger
Old Testament (Micah 5:2) - Messiah would be born in Bethlehem
Old Testament (Genesis 49:10) - Messiah would come from the tribe of Judah
Old Testament (Psalms 41:9) - Messiah would be betrayed by a friend
Old Testament (Zechariah 11:12) - Messiah would be sold for 30 pieces of silver
Old Testament (Isaiah 50:6) - Messiah would be spit upon and beaten
Old Testament (Isaiah 53:5) - Messiah would be wounded by his enemies
Old Testament (Isaiah 53:7) - and silent before his accusers
Old Testament (Zechariah 11:13) - betrayal money thrown into a temple and given for a potters field
that should be a good start, since there are close to 60 messianic prophecies and over 270 ramifications from the old testament fulfilled by Christ. Please explain how these are not prophecies of a coming Messiah, and I would like for you to include your sources too. | |
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/13/2005 2:58:44 AM |
Rideing to Jerusilem on an ass" heh heh He said ass heh heh ,Mabey It was a reffrence to a wild night he had with Magdellin???
LOL! Durn it gal pal, it said riding on an ass, not stumbling into Jerusalem, falling on his ass...
((((wiccanenchantress))))
In conclusion, every booty, I have to go with Jesus over Mithra, big time. Jesus rocks!
I just can't vote for a giant moth that Godzilla kicked the s__t out of back in the 70's. Wasn't that the name of it, Godzilla vs Mithra?? Does anyone else remember that giant moth thingy?
I can't have no deity that got beat up by a giant flame throwing lizard....
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/13/2005 10:00:36 AM |
All the doctrines of Christianity exists in the Old Testament:
How about this one?
An Eye for an Eye
Matthew 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth. '[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
This is an interesting Thread, perhaps us Christians and Pagans Have more in common than we can imagine. | |
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/13/2005 10:19:37 AM | That relates more to violent crimes Tim....Lev 19-24 Deut 19.19-21
Israel, the crime of telling lies in court must be punished. And when the people hear what happens to witnesses that lie, everyone else who testifies will tell the truth.
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/13/2005 10:27:38 AM | Try reading it again if you think that it deals with only violent crimes or am I not understanding your comment, my brother in Christ.
Matthew 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth. '[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. | |
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/13/2005 11:41:48 AM |
Do you not think the people he was talking to were aware of these prophecies and exactly what they meant?
Yes they did know and so did JC. Why do you think he "Choose" to look like a fool, a grown man riding a small donkey???
He knew the message that he was sending and how the people would take it, No chance happening.
And PLEASE lets us get the "eye for an eye" thing straight, It only relates to pregnant woman. (Exodus 21:24)
Christ! even Matthew got it wrong. | |
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/14/2005 8:09:01 AM |
He knew the message that he was sending and how the people would take it, No chance happening.
Cmon now, think this through. Why do you think he chose to ride on a donkey. do you not get it? | |
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/14/2005 8:14:55 AM | | I get it. He wanted people to see him as filling the Prophecy. It was calculated. | |
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| Mithra or Jesus ?
Posted: 6/14/2005 8:22:15 AM | big sigh.........
and what about the other 60 prophecies and 270 ramifications from the Old Testament that he fulfilled. He knew of all these, so He spent his whole 36 years of life intentionally trying to fullfill these??
Everything he did was calculated to fulfill a prophecy? You don't really believe that, do you? | |
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