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Joined: 6/5/2008
Msg: 1 | |
| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/18/2008 4:27:28 PM | The tolerant and the less-tolerant
It is interesting to observe in the forums how some people show little tolerance for difference on opinion issues dear to them, or different standards or morals that they live their lives by.
While one might admire the depth and strength of their conviction I cannot help but think that it is intolerant people (in general, not our beloved POF forum posters) who are believed to be responsible for much of the pain and misery inflicted on others through the course of humanity.
Mighty campaigns, not necessarily military, appear to be waged because of intolerance of other views. Differences in religion is often the motivating issue of the strife.
I will never profess to be a history buff and stand to be corrected by evidence of fact, but were not the Crusades a campaign fought in the name of Christianity? "My god is the right one, yours isn't, so you must die."
Consider the missionaries who traveled the world to convert people to Christianity. "The gods you believe in do not exist. We will now convert you to believe in the real god, our god."
In the infamous Residential schools of Canada there was no or little tolerance for First Nations peoples... for their language, faith and their culture. "Convert to our way or suffer the consequences."
Now please do not think this is an attack on religion. It is NOT. I repeat, it is not an attack on religion. This is a discussion on tolerance and intolerance. It just happens that religious strifes are a good example to demonstrate my point of how deeply the intolerant have impacted the world.
So coming back to what we see in the forums. People have strong feelings on a wide range to issues discussed here.
We see the pro-choice and pro-life on the matter of abortion.
We see acceptance or no tolerance for people making extremely difficult choices in finding happiness when married to an incapacitated spouse.
We see acceptance or no tolerance for homosexuality and participating in a Pride parade, with their children yet.
There have been many other hotly contested topics, with sound and passionate arguments made for and against.
However sometimes a poster is clearly so frustrated by others not accepting their position on a topic, that when we read their post we can easily visualize him or her with clenched fists and angrily stomping their foot, virtually screaming "why don't you understand what I am saying?!!!" They repeat themselves and try to present their opinion in every conceivable way they can, generally with little success in convincing the POF masses.
They appear unable to accept that other values maybe right for other. Moreover they cannot see other options, the gray between the black and the white.
So I ask...
Do you agree that it is the intolerant that are largely responsible for much of the conflict and misery in our world?
Are you a tolerant or intolerant person?
Do you have difficulty seeing both sides of an issue?
Can you sometimes see yet another route or option other than clearly defined "white" or "black"? Will you accept the "gray" route or option?
If you are generally intolerant, but have at times accepted other opinions or beliefs, what did it take for that to happen?
Do you have any advice for our less-tolerant forum brethren, advice they might consider before making a post in the forums? | |
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| The tolerant and the less tolerant
Posted: 8/18/2008 4:38:09 PM | Slightly off topic, yet not off topic...
I will easily listen to anothers opinion, I will also easily agree to not agree, I will also walk away and forget what the heck the arguement was really all about...until......someone reminds me once again, because they can't let it go. They feel the need to impress upon the other their own personal beliefs and will not be happy until they feel as though they have conquered something.
I was married to such a person. My favorite example...the discussion began in the bedroom, I willingly succumbed to his way but had enough of the conversation and proceeded to the livingroom where I fell asleep easily on the couch not thinking twice about the previous discussion, only to be woken up an hour later with this man hanging over me wanting to go at it again...
With the less tolerant comes control issues. There is always more involved than what the eye can see.
CC | |
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| The tolerant and the less tolerant
Posted: 8/18/2008 4:51:31 PM | I have chosen to quote William Butler Yeats from The Second Coming for this thread:
"The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity. "
Notice the last 2 lines. It seems to me that the tolerant of those who lack all conviction and the intolerant those with passionate intensity. I think sometimes we cling to certain ideas and we have to be prepared to let them go. I think sometimes we have to use our imaginations to understand how people with different beliefs think about life and the world. If you are able to to this, life is really interesting and you find yourself having empathy for people who are vastly different than you. Holding to convictions with passionate intensity is a very dangerous thing.
PS - You can see some really good videos of Yeat's The Second Coming on Youtube. | |
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| The tolerant and the less tolerant
Posted: 8/18/2008 5:30:21 PM |
I think sometimes we cling to certain ideas and we have to be prepared to let them go. I think sometimes we have to use our imaginations to understand how people with different beliefs think about life and the world.
Well spoke Ms. X ...
And sometime we just have to poke a little fun at life and enjoy yourself....
Life is full of difficult choices and opposing ideas, get acceptance
and don't sweat the little stuff even if it is a little bigger than the
average dog poop...... | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/18/2008 5:43:10 PM | I entirely agree that a lack of tolerance is the cause of %99 of the issues in the world.
People are discriminated against for an infinite number of reasons: Race, Weight, Gender, Religion, Genealogy, the neighborhood they live in, the brand of their clothes...
and for what?
Perhaps because we call it the human race, everyone feels the need to get ahead of all others, instead of making it as a team in the end.
I would say that I am a tolerant person and strongly believe in "to each is own". We can accept that someone prefers cars over trucks, beef over pork, or country over rap...so why can we not accept different choices in religion, sexuality, etc...
I once took a public speaking class(Toast Masters, I am sure you are all familiar with it) and one of the assignments we got was to debate an issue from a particular view point. We had an entire week to research it and spin the facts to support our ideas. When it came time to give our presentation, we were told we had to debate it from the other view point instead of the side we had spent the time researching. It is incredible how well a person can shift gears and argue another side of a topic. I find myself playing Devils Advocate quite often, not necessarily expressing my point of view, but simply trying to help others understand someone else's stance on a topic.
While in a perfect world everything would be as clear as black and white, people are not perfect and so there are infinite shades of grey on anything you discuss. Keeping an open mind and being willing to accept and embrace each others differences would make the world a far better place. More so, the ability to give advice or make a suggestion on something that a person may have overlooked, while still encouraging them to do what works best for them as an individual is a quality to be admired, as well as accepting that they may not heed your advice and that their actions are their own.
Challenging ideas and debating points is the only way that things can ever change.
At its best this forum is a great example of how different ideas from all walks of life can become a well discussed topic, hopefully breeding at least an understanding of how others life experiences have led them to have a certain belief.
At its worst, however, it turns into a pissing match where people make personal attacks with little or no disregard for others right to post. Petty attempts to undermine another's thoughts by pointing out spelling,grammar, and other minor mistakes, without actually commenting on the topic at hand or offering up an opinion on the ideas being discussed. | |
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| The tolerant and the less tolerant
Posted: 8/18/2008 5:59:16 PM | vive la difference, simple enough embrace and don't take yourself too serious, bad enough others will do that for you..
.doggy poop, horse turds or elephant dung...you'll know when you're in it | |
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| The tolerant and the less tolerant
Posted: 8/18/2008 6:47:59 PM | OR you have written a thread topic which doesn't make me cringe, well done.
Tolerance, or the lack thereof, is just a symptom of a greater issue. People generally show a lack of tolerance when they do not trust, or even fear, something. This can take on many forms, culture, religion or even societal differences (say Vancouver v Toronto). Change is perhaps the most powerful thing a person can face, and can instill fear in most anyone.
Education leads to the increase of understanding and familiarity with something someone may fear. This in turn helps dispel fear. However, education requires a willing mind to absorb the knowledge. It is a bit of a catch 22 when facing a person who is fearful of something, and does not want to be educated to help alleviate this fear, or worse views education with skepticism, hearing only what they wish and turning that into negativity.
One really needs to address themselves, say by applying the same "lack of tolerance" one may apply to another, to oneself (ok, you don't need to, do what you want, but try it sometime). When you paint yourself in the same light you portray others, you might find deeper understanding to your fear, or lack of tolerance.
I would go so far as to challenge one to remove "tolerance" and "non-tolerance" from their vocabulary. Why should I tolerate something? Why can I either enjoy or not enjoy it? If I do not like something, then I can change my situation, and if I do like, it,well, no worries. Through education and exploration one is able to understand the world around them and embrace it.
There is a greater issue where one finds themselves the target of non-tolerance, as it is harder to educate someone from that position. That should not prevent someone from attempting to try if they feel strong enough to do so. Otherwise they can change their own situation (without fear, ladies and gentlemen).
The greatest issue man faces is fear of himself.
Ok, maybe not, but that makes a great quote.
To the OP, I don't have time for tolerance, as you may have guessed. | |
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| The tolerant and the less tolerant
Posted: 8/18/2008 9:12:51 PM | Excellent Forum Thread Onchy!
Mungo Zen:
Tolerance, or the lack thereof, is just a symptom of a greater issue. People generally show a lack of tolerance when they do not trust, or even fear, something. …………… Change is perhaps the most powerful thing a person can face, and can instill fear in most anyone.
Education leads to the increase of understanding ………. views education with skepticism, hearing only what they wish and turning that into negativity.
…………….. "lack of tolerance" one may apply to another, to oneself…... When you paint yourself in the same light you portray others, you might find deeper understanding to your fear, or lack of tolerance.
I would go so far as to challenge one to remove "tolerance" and "non-tolerance" from their vocabulary.
There is a greater issue where one finds themselves the target of non-tolerance, as it is harder to educate someone from that position. That should not prevent someone from attempting to try if they feel strong enough to do so. …….
The greatest issue man faces is fear of himself…..
Excellent post Zen
I salute you!
"why don't you understand what I am saying?!!!" They repeat themselves and try to present their opinion in every conceivable way they can, generally with little success in convincing the POF masses…
 
They appear unable to accept that other values maybe right for other. Moreover they cannot see other options, the gray between the black and the white.
That is so true! I would use the word views, beliefs as it gets to the crutch of the matter…lol The mind is made up…
Do you agree that it is the intolerant that are largely responsible for much of the conflict and misery in our world?
No
I think it is those that claim to be tolerant that are the most damaging to conflict and misery.
I am intolerant of arrogance to my people.
I am intolerant of alcohol abuse.
Does this tell you anything? (lol)
accepted other opinions or beliefs, what did it take for that to happen? A lot of restraint and empathy!
Do you have any advice for our less-tolerant forum brethren, advice they might consider before making a post in the forums?
Post to your hearts content! You will only come to know yourself by the impact others make on you as well as how you impact others.
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| The tolerant and the less tolerant
Posted: 8/18/2008 9:25:30 PM | Not sure if some of the differences are intolerance here or closely guarded beliefs that make one person unique. Considering the many different backgrounds posters are coming from, you are going to get an eclectic mix of views on any given topic.
Our experiences in life and what we have learned right up until now have moulded us into who we are today. Sometimes in forums when your beliefs are questions it is seen as a challenge to justify your opinion. The trick is to say your piece on the topic and listen to what other posters have to say. Once in a while you will see a thought from an entirely different angle which isn't really a bad thing. | |
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| The tolerant and the less tolerant
Posted: 8/18/2008 9:42:06 PM |
Not sure if some of the differences are intolerance here or closely guarded beliefs that make one person unique. Considering the many different backgrounds
A nice optimistic view…
When people speak of intolerance….it is usually guarded with anger…rage to some degree. Intolerance is abrupt…it’s condescending….i t can be painful and usually is.
The trick is to say your piece on the topic and listen to what other posters have to say. Once in a while you will see a thought from an entirely different angle which isn't really a bad thing.
I agree with you on the view that others will have different options…..what I have difficulty with are people who “trick to say their piece” who knowingly have their intent.
Admit it…we have all seen the demise of fallen warriors and they don’t even know what they are fighting for in the end. Intolerance is built of arrogance. | |
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Xavery
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Joined: 4/22/2007
Msg: 11 | |
| The tolerant and the less tolerant
Posted: 8/18/2008 9:59:25 PM | | Speaking of seeing things from a different angle, it is important to be tolerant of those we view as intolerant. If we try and see what they see, we stand a greater chance of beginning a dialogue with them. I think of tolerance and intolerance as ways of seeing or not seeing. The more tolerant we are the more we are able to see in the collective human psyche. | |
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Joined: 6/5/2008
Msg: 12 | |
| The tolerant and the less tolerant
Posted: 8/19/2008 8:24:03 AM | Some really good comments and observations made above.
I heartily agree that to be tolerant one needs to put themselves in another's shoes and try to grasp their point of view, and from that perspective consider how you feel, what choices and decisions you might, or must make.
Perhaps only after doing so can a person truly become tolerant of others.
It seems some people are unable to see another's point of view. I would wonder why that is. A biological condition?
Perhaps upbringing and conditioning, cultural influences?
I suspect some ethnic populations or other groups of people (faith?) tend to have a larger proportion of people less tolerant or more tolerant than other populations or groups.
To be tolerant of the intolerant appears to require a depth of understanding and compassion somewhat less common. | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/19/2008 6:06:14 PM | I just had my profile rated here and wow! what a shallow bunch. Then I looked at all of their profiles. Michigan, Georgia etc etc etc. Need I say more? No I am NOT generalizing. Bush wasn't voted in and there are still some good Americans out there. But the bunch who rated my profile? No comment. My mistake. Oh well. Live and learn I guess. Tolerance or intolerance? On my part this is an example of both.  | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/19/2008 6:39:51 PM | Are you a tolerant or intolerant person? >> Generally tolerant, but easily annoyed by stupidity and ignorance. I just don't have to show it. I suppose that comes with maturity......;)
Do you have difficulty seeing both sides of an issue? >> No. My job puts me in the middle of a lot of conflicts (of interest) and I get to sort it out.
Can you sometimes see yet another route or option other than clearly defined "white" or "black"? Will you accept the "gray" route or option? >> I live in the gray.
If you are generally intolerant, but have at times accepted other opinions or beliefs, what did it take for that to happen? >> If there is no harm to anyone, what difference does it make what someone else thinks or believes?
Do you have any advice for our less-tolerant forum brethren, advice they might consider before making a post in the forums? >> Please, don't be racist. Otherwise, your opinion is your own. I may agree or disagree but you don't need my approval! | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/19/2008 6:56:17 PM | Some prime examples of my what I do NOT tolerate. Abuse of women or children,either physical or mental.
I don't think "intolerance" is the cause of all the havoc or confrontations in the world. I believe ignorance and arrogance are more likely the problem.
There are many things that I will "tolerate" along with my lists of things that I will NEVER tolerate. Doesn't mean I don't listen or understand. It means that I actually DO listen and I DO understand that causes these lists.
Got a problem with that???????
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/19/2008 8:28:55 PM | I''m brussel sprout intolerant!! Hate the damn things
One thing I do not tolerate is the old fashioned meal time parents that were and many are still control freaks. Growing up in a very strict British Military style family, us children were forced to eat food that we clearly could not stand and had to sit at the table until it was all finished. Looking back this to me could be a form of child abuse.
I have seen children forced to sit at the table hours usually crying into their plate because they don't like the taste of the food or they were simply not hungry.
As an adult, I don't eat if I am not hungry and I won't eat food that I find tastes awful or unappealing. I understand the notion that children should try different foods as they grow up and they need to eat at some point of the day, but force feeding is not my style.. Children are smart, they are active little bodies who know when to eat . | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/19/2008 9:57:18 PM | | So I changed my mind on what I wanted to put down here and now I guess I have to think of something else quick! So...I am less tolerant than I would hope and a lot more tolerant than some others that I know. Sorry for such a useless contribution. Where's the delete my post button? | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/19/2008 10:25:13 PM | No. I will say it. Perhaps it is a form of attention seeking behaviour that masks a cry for help. When people are so negative about what is going on around them, it is often because they are very unhappy. Scrolling back in history of posts - sometimes you can see why people might be intolerant at this point of time in their lives. When pointed in the right direction - and unfortunately POF is not it - life CAN seem wonderful - to each one of us - and we may find less need to be critical of others.
Well, it is always a work in progress anyway (laugh!)
Thank you for a very thoughtfully phrased post, OP. | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/19/2008 10:44:33 PM | I'm tolerant to other people's opinions, I just don't listen to them because they're stupid. heheeeehehe....
It seems some people are unable to see another's point of view. I would wonder why that is. A biological condition? Perhaps upbringing and conditioning, cultural influences?
Thought you already asked that question OP! What is the intent behind your question? (lol)
Biological? In order for a person to be accepting of anothers view….one needs to have empathy. Google if you must…..research has found that SOME people don’t have the ability to empathize as they do not have the gene responsible for that characteristic…(lol)
Intolerance is also a learned response…. Blah blah blah….
I suspect some ethnic populations or other groups of people (faith?) tend to have a larger proportion of people less tolerant or more tolerant than other populations or groups.
I would say those that are clear about their role in their communities are far less likely to be ‘intolerant’. You can figure that one out Onchy!
To be tolerant of the intolerant appears to require a depth of understanding and compassion somewhat less common
Gibberish…please clarify! | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/19/2008 11:19:27 PM | That wasn't gibberish. He said it's harder to tolerate the intolerant. Essentially, it takes a bigger person to do so.
When I was quite young, the whole idea of not understanding a person until you've been in the same situation struck me as very wise. I've tried to live that way ever since. I admit to failure in understanding the intolerant, however. Or, rather, I understand but can't empathize with their way of thinking.
If anyone's ever read about the famous blue eye-brown eye experiment (google Jane Elliott and blue eye brown eye), you see how quickly humans can turn against each other. It's pretty depressing. | |
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Joined: 6/5/2008
Msg: 22 | |
| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/19/2008 11:29:30 PM | Merrylass ^^^^
That wasn't gibberish. He said it's harder to tolerate the intolerant. Essentially, it takes a bigger person to do so.
Thank you!
I suspect these such people are less abundant than the the people who cannot tolerate the intolerant. | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/20/2008 3:12:29 AM | Thank you for this topic and the well written OP, OR. I agree with a lot of what you've said.
Are you a tolerant or intolerant person?
I think I am unusually tolerant, however I am human and also prone to being imperfect, by letting emotional response get in the way of rational thought which often is the crux of intolerance. I strongly support tolerance as I grew up with some intolerance from various sources and as such it is my peculiar rebellion, one that I feel has made me a better person when all is said and done. I do not easily tolerate attitudes or actions that are harmful to others though.
Do you have difficulty seeing both sides of an issue?
Not at all, in the idealistic or universal sense. I am known for this, amongst friends actually. I do have a little bit of difficulty seeing another person's side of a personal issue with someone I am close to- if they don't make it clear to me. If someone can clearly communicate their position I can definitely see that, however I am not a mind reader.
This is why I will speak of the virtues of communication until the day I take my last breath. I have seen far too much drama that could have been avoided by denying ambiguity and being open and upfront about things that later were realized to be the wrong conclusion. Breaks my heart every time I see this happen, amongst friends, family, anybody. (sorry for the slight derail)
Can you sometimes see yet another route or option other than clearly defined "white" or "black"?
Always. Meeting in the middle, compromise, is an ideal that is close to my heart. I believe in finding the best possible option for all involved, that is just my nature.
Will you accept the "gray" route or option?
If it is the most equitable to all involved, always. =)
If you are generally intolerant, but have at times accepted other opinions or beliefs, what did it take for that to happen?
It took information to lead me to understand. I may not agree with their position, but it goes a long way if I understand what led them to their belief. I can forgive a point of view based on that criteria, as long as it is passive. Meaning, I am less tolerant of someone who has taken a belief and willingly acts on it in a way that affects other people. If it is a personal bias, known to few outside the person holding it, it doesn't really bother me.
I can tolerate a person believing in pro-life values within their personal ideology. People who picket abortion clinics, or worse, hurt the patients and staff involved, I have no tolerance for.
The difference is when one takes the belief and pushes it on other people, or goes so far to punish those who don't agree. I have no problem with people having the beliefs, it's what they do with them.
'I don't believe in pro-choice, so I had my baby' = tolerance and even respect from me
'I don't believe in pro-choice, so I firebombed a clinic' = go to jail, do not pass go
'I believe in pro-choice, so I had an abortion' = tolerance and even respect from me
'I believe in pro-choice, so I heavily pressured this person with an unexpected pregnancy to have one' = not cool at all
Do you have any advice for our less-tolerant forum brethren, advice they might consider before making a post in the forums?
Just to take a breath. The internet is not serious business. We all have to remember that while we are the centre of our individual universes, in the grand scheme of things there are billions of people on this planet, and we are like grains of sand on a beach. No one is more important than anybody else, the internet is the great equalizer and should be celebrated for that fact. Where else can people of all ages, countries, and backgrounds gather to share their thoughts, hopes, dreams, opinions? Let's respect that as best we can.
Look at things in perspective. Step outside your emotions if you find you are getting angry. Step away from the keyboard, nobody will remember in a day or two if you lost a debate or put your foot in your mouth. People respect others when they can admit that they were hasty in judgment. Try to not let your ego get involved, but approach sharing on the forums as exactly that- sharing. It is discussion nothing more. Frantic argument and heated debate only makes you look insecure in your beliefs. It is a beautiful thing to be able to say, 'well hey that doesn't work for me, but if it makes you happy, good on ya'.
I have some other thoughts that blossomed from this topic to follow. Take what you will.
On tolerance and personal responsibilty- by worldscollide, Grade 4
As a general rule, I live by the notion of 'live and let live' as my guide. I don't believe in brute forcing my point of view, because I don't know the circumstances of a person's belief systems or behaviour and if they believe something that I have discarded as unjust, it doesn't necessarily mean I am right and they are wrong. Maybe in their world, it *is* the most judicious option.
What it means is that we have had different upbringings, value systems, and different needs of satisfaction in resolving any given subject. People have different levels of what they can live with.
Other people are satisfied with their opinions and I wouldn't take that away from them, unless it was to avoid anyone being hurt. That is always the bottom line to me- the potential of inflicting hurt on another. I am not wiccan at all, but I do appreciate one of their core beliefs which is 'do what you will, lest it hurt no one'. I believe in a balance between both personal freedom and personal responsibility and that is what I strive for.
As to how I see my tolerance in action, I give you this example. I am intolerant of a married person cheating on their spouse who has no idea the cheating is going on, and believes life is normal and the spouse is happy. The spouse being cheated on takes care to consider the spouse's happiness as much as their own, there is basically nothing inherently wrong with them, yet the cheater feels they are missing something and goes behind their unsuspecting spouse's back. It is something that would create a lot of hurt if the spouse found out. If the cheater was not willing to accept personal responsibility, and either communicate their concerns to their spouse, give it an honest go at fixing the situation. Or if they knew the magic could never be reignited, be honest about that and 'wo/man up' and end the marriage, so that their spouse can also seek their bliss. I would have very little tolerance for the cheater in that scenario if they didn't accept personal responsibility and tried one of those options.
Adjust the minutiae a little bit. If the same marriage was one where the cheater was at the mercy of cruelty to the spouse, who went out of their way to prevent the person having options for leaving or making the relationship more healthy, I would have more tolerance if they cheated. Or, if they did communicate their unhappiness to their spouse, and it was met with apathy keeping the cheater in a situation of inertia and uncertainty. I would understand that scenario more than one where the person was just being completely selfish. I would wish that if the problem was just apathy, that they would make a clean break, but tolerance has degrees. I would have some tolerance in that situation. There are many mitigating circumstances under the sun, and as much as I would hope that people made the best decisions, I'm not naive enough to think that it's always possible (I hope).
In debate, I prefer to state my own point of view in a general manner and compel a person to see reason, rather than denigrate their viewpoint (unless it's particularly ignorant, or potentially harmful/unkind to others who were innocent). While I love debate, I try to do it with a view of approaching the subject in a way that is understandable to the person I am persuaded to provide an alternate viewpoint to. To put my position in terms they can identify with.
Oddly enough, I can totally respect and accept a lot of differing values that belong to other people, as I am not insecure about my values or beliefs. Paradoxically, the one thing that riles me more than anything is intolerance. I don't like it, but often must lump it anyway. | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/20/2008 3:30:55 PM | Merrylass:
That wasn't gibberish. He said it's harder to tolerate the intolerant. Essentially, it takes a bigger person to do so.
Thank you for clarifying Merrylass! I know you meant well
When I asked the question Merrylass, I am approaching from a different view:
I think it is those that claim to be tolerant that are the most damaging to conflict and misery.
(Message #8 response to his original question)
In order for a person to be accepting of another’s view….one needs to have empathy I didn’t say the person is in agreement as a result of having been empathetic…..
Or, rather, I understand but can't empathize with their way of thinking.
Could it be you understand as a result of having been empathetic (identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives.) and will not accept and /or agree with their way of thinking?
I will accept (tolerate) that my best friend is in need of money with issues as to how she manages her spending. I am conscious of her struggles and her fears and continue working with her on managing money. However, I don’t agree with(intolerant) how she got to where she is and as a result I will not lend her money to clear the debt(intolerant). I can accept (tolerate) her being in debt but will not accept (tolerate) her foolish spending and still respect her as a friend. I will not ‘enable’ her to continue with what she is doing (intolerant) by giving her a loan. I would be empathetic and still be firm with my beliefs.
famous blue eye-brown eye experiment…. you see how quickly humans can turn against each other. It's pretty depressing
Would you please explain how you’re using this experiment to reinforce your beliefs to this topic?
Worldscollide:
The difference is when one takes the belief and pushes it on other people… it's what they do with them.
I loved reading your post WC. Thank you!
Although I’ve heard this following opinion on different threads here I was never in agreement…
I am comforted in knowing that you accept (and don’t’ have to agree) there will be differences.
The internet is not serious business.
The ‘internet is serious’ to the point of the intent of the message. Remember that this is a medium used like newspapers and anything that conveys information. What is serious is how the information is transmitted by the use of words and how they are implied and their intent!
No one is more important than anybody else, the internet is the great equalizer and should be celebrated for that fact. Where else can people of all ages, countries, and backgrounds gather to share their thoughts, hopes, dreams, opinions? Let's respect that as best we can.
Excellent post! Abit of a contradiction to the earlier statement but excellent observation.
Back to the OP’s Post! Envisions Op sitting in his rocker giggling to himself (lol)
They repeat themselves and try to present their opinion in every conceivable way they can, generally with little success in convincing the POF masses.
I know that I have done this more then a few times (lol); I have approached intolerance with sympathy (lol) which was viewed as condescending (lol)…. Guilty or not I made my point!
I have approached intolerance with intolerance to be banned ….(lol); I have approached with humility and at times shame holding true to my convictions only to be called names as it was far more appealing than for some to get in touch with themselves….rambling here....
You Onchy or anyone else as an observer…with the medium used allows you to follow the thread with compassion (empathy lol) …..how is it that you as observers tolerate all that you observe without wanting to intervene to create some understanding?
Becoming apathetic is being intolerant and tolerant would you not agree?
Do you have any advice for our less-tolerant forum brethren, advice they might consider before making a post in the forums?
Advice? None for the less-tolerant but I have advice for you OP…
Look into the articles of tolerance and intolerance before you use them as a way of interpreting events in these forums. The words tolerance and intolerance need not be taken lightly….they have history based on ignorance, arrogance and the attitude of superiority!
“For one who is indifferent, life itself is a prison. Any sense of community is external or, even worse, nonexistent. Thus, indifference means solitude. Those who are indifferent do not see others. They feel nothing for others and are unconcerned with what might happen to them. They are surrounded by a great emptiness. Filled by it, in fact. They are devoid of all hope as well as imagination. In other words, devoid of any future” Elie Wiesel
Indifference is the essence of inhumanity. George Bernard Shaw
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/20/2008 7:39:08 PM | It appears the entire debate on tolerance is based on the assumption what may or may not be another person’s intent, while neglecting that the originators assumption is in itself only one person’s brain reasoning within its own limited abilities and shortcomings. With billions of people with these varied abilities there are billions of opinions and judgments each within its own rights considered the right one.
Equally too there are as many persons feeling judged by the rest of the world. The feelings of every one origin in their own learned and life experiences and only their ability to cope with them, which leads to protective measures or feelings of inadequacy usually expressed in acceptance or non-acceptance of a matter which in return is judged as a degree of tolerance.
To debate this at nauseum is futile as no reasonable thinking person would consider themselves the master of others. Hence the reasonable person would take and accept another persons knowledge or opinion expressed as such, evaluates it as to its usefulness, makes use of the information or not and do so without characterizing or stereotyping the other or themselves. Any other reaction may be the result of ones own inferiority or superiority feelings and or self serving agendas. By experience it can be reasoned that most every person at one time or another has a specific agenda and acts in accordance to their own inferior or superior feelings to achieve a specific goal. All being equal every one else has the rights to reject or accept such conduct and no other should judge that.
But that would of course be not human.
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