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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?      Home login  
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 ErikSFBay
Joined: 8/2/2004
Msg: 1
Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?Page 1 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
In my mind, despite all the distractions, this election is a referendum on the Bush Presidency.

In the current environment, can America endure 8 more years of the status quo? or even 4 more years?

In my humble opinion, McCain has done nothing but offer more of the same as his party's current President. He may have been considered a 'maverick' at one time, but in the last two years, he has voted with the President and his party 95-100% of the time.

So basically, he is a guarantee of 4 more years of Bush & Republican policies that have devastated our country. That's the real issue.




August 25, 2008
Are you better off now than 8 years ago?

FROM CNN’s Jack Cafferty:

Ronald Reagan had some success with this question a few years ago and things weren’t nearly as crummy then as they are now: Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago? But this time it’s been 8 years.

Think about it: unemployment is rising. The rate stands at 5.7% and we have lost 463,000 jobs since the first of the year. And so is inflation. It’s accelerating at a faster rate than it has in 17 years. Gas prices are up 34% in the last year. Oil was around $26 a barrel when President Bush was inaugurated… it touched $147 a few weeks ago. More than 1 million homes are now in foreclosure.

Here are some national comparisons between today and where things were 8 years ago: Americans’ wages have actually gone down since the last recession ended. And we are spending 14.1% of our disposable income on debt; that’s higher than it was in 2001.

Americans are pretty glum about the future, too. The Conference Board’s Consumer Confidence Index stood at almost 85% in 2001; now it’s just below 52%.

Also, a new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll finds 75% of those surveyed think the economy is in bad shape; that’s compared to just 43% who felt that way a year ago.

So as the conventions get under way and the campaign for the White House heats up — voters have a lot to think about.

Here’s my question to you: With the election 71 days away, are you better off now than you were eight years ago?
Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/25/2008 2:41:01 PM
I'm definitely not better off than I was four years ago. My purchasing power and the value of my house have gone down. Everything's become more expensive and the cost of gasoline has gone through the roof.
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 3
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Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/25/2008 2:49:56 PM
I am better off, but my case is the exception to the rule, I overcame two foreclosures and saved my house by the skin of my teeth. . . Despite the divorce.

I know many of my fellow Americans didn't fare as well as I did, but I didn't even date for over a year to save enough to save my home.

McSame doesn't know how many houses he has, how appropriate, since many Americans can't answer that question either, because they don't know if they are going to save their only home. . .
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 4
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Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/25/2008 3:35:26 PM
I'm more or less the same as I was 4 years ago, but I live a very non-traditional lifestyle.

I'm against debt. I don't do it. I didn't even do it when I had no money. Bought a rehab house for a dollar, drove junkers, got good jobs, started businesses. Bought better houses, and cars, all paid for. It's amazing how much more money you have when you just REFUSE to go into debt.

Don't say it's not possible, because it is.

If you don't pay all that interest, you'd be surprised how much more money you will have. It also "recession proofs" you.
 MacKevinized
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 5
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Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/25/2008 3:57:18 PM
4 years ago I was employed at a good job surrounded by greedy republicans. They were pretty much like McCain, in high positions but couldn't use computers.

I discovered technology that would have cut the company's telecom expenses by 80%. It would have eliminated the need for paying for jobs that were obsolete and it would have cut insurance rates over 60%.

However, these people that surrounded me were receiving huge kickbacks from vendors and so they decided to launch a smear campaign against me and moved to have me fired. They found that it would take 4 engineers and 2 analysis's to replace me and they expected me to train my replacements. Every replacement I was training quit when they saw the environment they would have to work in and realized they did not have to qualifications to do the jobs I was doing.

When they finally canned me, they expected me to sign an agreement stating I would not disclose any of the corruption I uncovered with a 3 months severance package.

My lawyer, negotiated a very large sum for me not to make the knowledge public and I still got to make a report to the regulatory authorities.

So even though I don't make as much money now, I don't have to work among a bunch of crooks, I was able to cash in my 401K without penaty and so I didn't loose that investment and have started a business to help rout out corruption.

Financially I'm not much better but emotionally, I'm much better.

When the democrats are in control, I'll be glad to help them rout out as much corruption as possible.
 ranger58
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 6
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Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/25/2008 4:26:19 PM
as for me, it's about the same, maybe a little better. It's misleading and wrong if you want to put all the blame on one man, President Bush for all the trouble of this country. There plenty of blame to go around in both political parties, and forces outside politics. The dem's are in control of congress, and that is when the economy began to really go bad. Too believe one man can make it all right again is plane foolishness.
Because Reagan is not running again.

Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases:
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
-Ronald Reagan (1986)
 Lostcauz
Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 7
Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/25/2008 5:13:36 PM

In my humble opinion, McCain has done nothing but offer more of the same as his party's current President. He may have been considered a 'maverick' at one time, but in the last two years, he has voted with the President and his party 95-100% of the time.

So basically, he is a guarantee of 4 more years of Bush & Republican policies that have devastated our country. That's the real issue.

And what Presidential policies, exactly, have "devastated our country"?


Think about it: unemployment is rising. The rate stands at 5.7% and we have lost 463,000 jobs since the first of the year.

This is solely a result of President Bush's policies? Anyone who believes this might be interested in some prime beach front real estate in Arizona as well.


And so is inflation. It’s accelerating at a faster rate than it has in 17 years. Gas prices are up 34% in the last year. Oil was around $26 a barrel when President Bush was inaugurated… it touched $147 a few weeks ago.

As a result of what? Speculators moving thier money from mortgage backed securities, which have proven unstable? It's been an open secret for over 30 years that the world supply of oil is dwindling.

Many arguments have been made concerning off shore drilling; President Bush lifted the Presidential moratorium on off shore drilling; oil futures dropped by $10 that afternoon, and tumbled still further in the following weeks. The democratically controlled House of Representatives went on vacation without bringing the matter of lifting the Congressional Moratorium on off shore drilling to the floor for a vote; Thank you Speaker Mimi. When President Clinton was in office, Congress passed legislation authorizing off shore drilling, and he vetoed it.

Estimates quoted lately say that it could take ten years to see the first barrel of oil from off shore drilling here in the US; President Clinton vetoed off shore drilling legislation 13 years ago. This means that had President Clinton signed the off shore drilling legislation into law, we would have had benefit of increased production of our own off shore oil, for three years.

Not even President Clinton could rescind the most basic economic law of supply and demand.


More than 1 million homes are now in foreclosure.

What is the root cause of this huge foreclosure crisis?
And just who bought the vast majority of these homes that are now in foreclosure? What types of mortgages did they get?
How many mortgages are NOT in foreclosure, and being paid on time?

IMHO, based upon what I've been able to learn, this foreclosure crisis was brought on by a LOT of loudmouth cry babies spewing about how they were being discriminated against, because banks would not give them a mortgage. The reasons varied, but, there were as many classes being discriminated against, as there are people.

So, banks loosened up their lending standards, so more people could buy homes. People were getting mortgages without providing documentation of their income, or debts; there were people getting mortgages based solely upon what they put on a loan application.

The vast majority of the homes now in foreclosure were bought by people who, quite frankly, bought more house than they could reasonably afford. They bought these same houses with adjustable rate mortgages, that they knew were going to be adjusted UP at some point in the future. As it has been said before, these people's chickens have come home to roost.


Here are some national comparisons between today and where things were 8 years ago: Americans’ wages have actually gone down since the last recession ended. And we are spending 14.1% of our disposable income on debt; that’s higher than it was in 2001.

And just whose debt is this 14.1% of our disposable income being used to pay? Somehow, I'm left feeling as if the debt being serviced is the debt of private individuals.


Also, a new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll finds 75% of those surveyed think the economy is in bad shape; that’s compared to just 43% who felt that way a year ago.

I REALLY wish some of these poll takers would cite thier sources. In nearly 50 years living in this country, I have yet to be contacted by a poll taker, or meet anyone who has. Yet, we get to hear about all of these research polls, and all of their scientific findings.


Here’s my question to you: With the election 71 days away, are you better off now than you were eight years ago?

Yes, most definitely. Eight years ago, I was struggling to make ends meet.

Today, I am at least 100% better off than I was eight years ago.

However, my good fortune had NOTHING to do with Presidential policies or politics. It had to do with hard work and sacrifice on my part. Last I heard, this was one of the core principals upon which the US was founded.


I'm definitely not better off than I was four years ago. My purchasing power and the value of my house have gone down. Everything's become more expensive and the cost of gasoline has gone through the roof.

These are the very same arguments that have been bantied about, just about ever four years or so, ever since I can remember.

If you bought your house four years ago, and expected it to continually appreciate in value, you made a foolish investment. One should NEVER buy a house simply as an investment. One should by a house to LIVE IN. If that same house appreciates in value, over time, which historically it should, all the better.

I can remember waiting in gas lines with my Dad, back in the 1970's, and how Dad complained about how the price of gas had gone up so much in a very short time. When I started driving, gas was 35 cents a gallon; when I was in the military, I worked part time at a gas station, pumping gas for 59 cents a gallon. Dang, gas has increased in cost ten times in 30 years; what an outrage.

Maybe we should do something like, oh gee, maybe, start exploiting our own oil reserves here in the US and stop buying foriegn oil. What a novel idea, huh?


I am better off, but my case is the exception to the rule, I overcame two foreclosures and saved my house by the skin of my teeth. . . Despite the divorce.

I know many of my fellow Americans didn't fare as well as I did, but I didn't even date for over a year to save enough to save my home.

McSame doesn't know how many houses he has, how appropriate, since many Americans can't answer that question either, because they don't know if they are going to save their only home. . .

Before criticizing John McCain for not knowing how many houses he has, maybe someone should do just a wee bit of research, and see just how many houses John McCain has. I'm willing to bet that it would be rather difficult to determine, because the houses likely aren't held by John McCain at all, but, by his wife; who just so happens to be rather rich.


I'm more or less the same as I was 4 years ago, but I live a very non-traditional lifestyle.

I'm against debt. I don't do it. I didn't even do it when I had no money. Bought a rehab house for a dollar, drove junkers, got good jobs, started businesses. Bought better houses, and cars, all paid for. It's amazing how much more money you have when you just REFUSE to go into debt.

Don't say it's not possible, because it is.

If you don't pay all that interest, you'd be surprised how much more money you will have. It also "recession proofs" you.

I am in the process of getting debt free. In the last 8 years, I bought one home, and paid cash for it; which is now a rental property.

My fiance' and I bought the home we live in about a year ago; in the midst of the now huge foreclosure crisis. Funny thing, we got a mortgage for it. Imagine that, getting a mortgage in the midst of a foreclosure crisis. Who woulda thought?

Just about a month ago, my fiance' bought a home; the bank wouldn't giver her a mortgage for 50% of the home's appraised value. So, she paid cash for it.

By the way, mortgage debt, while still debt, is not BAD debt, because the interest on the mortgage is a tax write off; at least it is at present.


4 years ago I was employed at a good job surrounded by greedy republicans. They were pretty much like McCain, in high positions but couldn't use computers.

I discovered technology that would have cut the company's telecom expenses by 80%. It would have eliminated the need for paying for jobs that were obsolete and it would have cut insurance rates over 60%.

However, these people that surrounded me were receiving huge kickbacks from vendors and so they decided to launch a smear campaign against me and moved to have me fired. They found that it would take 4 engineers and 2 analysis's to replace me and they expected me to train my replacements. Every replacement I was training quit when they saw the environment they would have to work in and realized they did not have to qualifications to do the jobs I was doing.

When they finally canned me, they expected me to sign an agreement stating I would not disclose any of the corruption I uncovered with a 3 months severance package.

My lawyer, negotiated a very large sum for me not to make the knowledge public and I still got to make a report to the regulatory authorities.

And the outcome of your report to the regulatory authorities was?

Last I heard, getting kickbacks from vendors, is a felonious act, in the US; it's also actionable in a civil proceeding. You didn't sue the company under the protection of the Whistler Blower laws, and win a tremendously huge Judgment? Why not?


So even though I don't make as much money now, I don't have to work among a bunch of crooks, I was able to cash in my 401K without penaty and so I didn't loose that investment and have started a business to help rout out corruption.

Many, many, people who have 401k's await to hear how you were able to cash out your 401k and bypass the stringent provisions of the Internal Revenue Code.


When the democrats are in control, I'll be glad to help them rout out as much corruption as possible.

Maybe start with the most crooked supporters, and influence peddlers, there are in politics; labor unions. That would be a good start.
Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/25/2008 11:02:20 PM
Always bear in mind:

*It's possible for the federal government to slow the economy down, just by giving tax cuts to rich people, who invest the money into companies who use it to buy up smaller companies, which eliminates jobs and competition, thus concentrating the ownership of companies into the hands of less and less owners.

*When big companies buy up small companies, they can raise prices as high as they want, because nobody else is in the market to compete with them. They can afford to wait until you HAVE to buy a car, a shirt, a tv, an appliance; because they're the only ones you can buy it from, and eventually you'll have to pay their prices for it. Of course, we don't have monopolies, but if there are only 3 or 4 suppliers in the market, do they really have to call each other to figure how to fix their prices?
 Lostcauz
Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 9
Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/26/2008 1:46:44 AM

Always bear in mind:

*It's possible for the federal government to slow the economy down, just by giving tax cuts to rich people, who invest the money into companies who use it to buy up smaller companies, which eliminates jobs and competition, thus concentrating the ownership of companies into the hands of less and less owners.

*When big companies buy up small companies, they can raise prices as high as they want, because nobody else is in the market to compete with them. They can afford to wait until you HAVE to buy a car, a shirt, a tv, an appliance; because they're the only ones you can buy it from, and eventually you'll have to pay their prices for it. Of course, we don't have monopolies, but if there are only 3 or 4 suppliers in the market, do they really have to call each other to figure how to fix their prices?


Hmmmm. Two companies come to mind at the moment, that do not fit this category.

What about the very publicized break up of the Bell telephone/AT&T phone system? As a public utility, it was highly regulated, charged reasonable prices, and was still broken up because it had grown too big to suit someone.

Microsoft was, and may still be, going through a rather rough time, because it had the temerity to develop a product that people wanted to buy.

The overwhelming majority of taxes are paid by the so called rich. The Alternative Minimum Tax is reaching down, and hitting those people who make 60,000 a year. Are these people rich?
 Hawaiianluau
Joined: 7/12/2008
Msg: 10
Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/26/2008 2:41:20 AM
Same but poised for greatness.

In the current environment, can America endure 8 more years of the status quo? or even 4 more years?

The status quo being America sucks. You betchya.

So basically, he is a guarantee of 4 more years of Bush & Republican policies

and a guarantee of 8 more years for the let's trash America crowd.
 MacKevinized
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 11
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Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/26/2008 3:37:02 AM

And what Presidential policies, exactly, have "devastated our country"?


Allowing banks to lend more money than they can afford.
sending billions per month on an illegal war
no bid contracts
viewing the constitution as a silly piece of paper.


And the outcome of your report to the regulatory authorities was?


Filled in a backlog of corruption cases, several people getting fired and now have their own lawyers to pay trying to stay out of jail.


Last I heard, getting kickbacks from vendors, is a felonious act, in the US; it's also actionable in a civil proceeding. You didn't sue the company under the protection of the Whistler Blower laws, and win a tremendously huge Judgment? Why not?


maybe when I said


My lawyer, negotiated a very large sum for me not to make the knowledge public and I still got to make a report to the regulatory authorities.


I should have said HUGE instead of large.

Whistle blower laws only apply to public companies, I worked for a private company.


Many, many, people who have 401k's await to hear how you were able to cash out your 401k and bypass the stringent provisions of the Internal Revenue Code.


There are 'hardship' rules in the 401K that allow for withdraw of the funds and my settlement calculated the difference Of the losses from that withdraw into it.
The social security judge allowed me to prove the treatment I received from the ba$tards constituted a psychological injury that prevented me from being able to work.

The end result for the insureds was higher premiums.
 Your Number 1
Joined: 4/29/2008
Msg: 12
Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/26/2008 12:03:56 PM
I'm doing better now than 4 years ago.
 Contraryhermit
Joined: 8/16/2008
Msg: 13
Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/26/2008 12:19:27 PM
No, and what is perhaps more important I don't believe the country, as a whole, is better off. If foreign lenders called in our loans we'd be up ---- creek.

Yes, Bush is a big part of the problem. But who elected (matter of opinion on that one) him? We did, so what does that say about us.

The bigger problem in my mind is the antipathy of the American public. Hey, when more people vote for American Idol than for President we have a problem!

Americans may be screaming now about home values and the price of gas (get used to that one) but when you buy on credit, the loan inevitably comes due. In a lot of countries people save to buy something; here we just pull out the plastic.

I believe that who we elect as President (Obama being the better choice!) is important, but as American citizens we should be doing more. We should be calling for election reform (one person, one vote would be nice), working on the deficit (mostly a result of our buying habits) and economic reform.

Mostly, we all need to start paying attention to what all our elected officials ,from the President to the local Mayor, are doing.
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 14
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Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/26/2008 12:34:58 PM
I think it's a misleading question. Am I better off than 4 years ago, yes, 8 years ago, yes, 12 years ago, yes ... am I better off than I was 2 years ago, no, I find the work in my field is actually slowed to almost a complete halt. I still have some new contracts, but at probably close to 50% of what it was in 05 and 06 (which is why I have so much free time to blog). Don't misunderstand, the competition hasn't increased, the work itself has tailed off and rather abruptly.
In my experience, the construction industry almost immediately goes into a "wait and see" mode whenever Democrats come into power, and while sometimes it's just a minor financial blip, at times it's pretty significant.
An aside, my house appraised this year at almost 15% less than it did when I refinanced in 2006, and I've added a hot tub and outdoor kitchen into the mix, which even at a 1-1 return should have increased the value, not decreased it...
Not to mention the gas increase, doubling in the last two years, increasing transportation of all consumable goods across the board.... better off than 4 years ago yes, because I make more money per hour, better off than two years ago, no because the dollar is worth significantly less than it was just two short years ago....

 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 15
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Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/26/2008 12:50:26 PM
But you are so naieve that you blame the Democrats. . . If you really paid attention to what causes economic trends, you would know that it isn't the Democrats that cause economic stagnation, it is the concentration of wealth that has occured in the past 30 years.

Reaganomics is hurting you, but your blind loyalty to the party doing you in is sealing your own fate.

My profession is immune to the economic downturn. I am fine, but I hope that there are sweeping changes in the political arena, so people like you, despite our differences, are able to rise again.
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 16
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Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/26/2008 1:18:42 PM
But you are so naieve that you blame the Democrats. . . If you really paid attention to what causes economic trends, you would know that it isn't the Democrats that cause economic stagnation, it is the concentration of wealth that has occured in the past 30 years.
I haven't blamed anyone, merely pointed out my experience with changes in power, my industry thrives under a Republican Administration and diminishes under a Democratic Administration...


Reaganomics is hurting you, but your blind loyalty to the party doing you in is sealing your own fate.
I completely disagree with your position, to begin I have no blind loyalty to any party, I do have a strong belief in the concept of conservatism, something we haven't seen since Reagan...
One thing you fail to consider, poor people don't invest in new businesses, don't create jobs, and don't write paychecks. Anything that takes money out of the realm of consumer circulation stifles the economy, not stimulates it... For every dollar taken out of my pocket, I have a tendency to hold on to a similar amount for as long as possible, as in not spend it... Not spending those dollars has a significant impact on state and local government because it decreases their revenue base. Trickle down is the only way a capitalist economy CAN work...


My profession is immune to the economic downturn. I am fine, but I hope that there are sweeping changes in the political arena, so people like you, despite our differences, are able to rise again.
Unless you are a government employee there is no such thing as immunity from economic downturns ... there are some professions that are somewhat insulated, like healthcare, but none other than government that are immune...
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 17
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Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/26/2008 1:31:23 PM
No, supply side (Reagaonomic) doesn't work, it has never worked, it will never work.

The fallacy of supply side is that giving money to wealthy stimulates investment in business. This is NOT TRUE. They already have enough money, hence the wealthy reference, that they CAN invest ANY TIME THEY CHOOSE. giving them more, does NOT stimulate investment, it simply causes the money to DISAPPEAR from the money supply. Like you said, anything that reduces the money supply hurts your industry. Supply side economics ALWAYS reduces the money supply.

What causes the economy to rise is when those on the bottom can spend. When they spend, wealthy individuals will create business to supply their consumption requirements. Capitalism works from the bottom up, but is not treated that way. Which is why it always destroys itself.

Tim;

I am not trying to single you out or be hostile. The caps are for emphasis, not yelling. Just so I am clear.
 Lostcauz
Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 18
Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/26/2008 1:51:59 PM
I beg to differ. One of the longest, if not the longest, stretch of economic growth in US history is when the top income tax bracket was reduced from 92% to something like 38%.

If I recall correctly, that reduction was done in the late 1950's or early 1960's, and resulted in a HUGE growth in the economy, that lasted for a very long time.

When government cuts taxes on the top income tax payers, those tax payers invest more money in thier businesses, hire more employees, to grow thier businesses. Those new employees pay more payroll taxes, and income taxes.

It may sound strange, but, ask any economist, and they will tell you that cutting taxes increases revenue to governments.

It's a simple equation, the more money people have to spend, the more money they will spend.
 oscarz05
Joined: 8/22/2007
Msg: 19
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Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/26/2008 2:15:15 PM

IMHO, based upon what I've been able to learn, this foreclosure crisis was brought on by a LOT of loudmouth cry babies spewing about how they were being discriminated against, because banks would not give them a mortgage. The reasons varied, but, there were as many classes being discriminated against, as there are people.

So, banks loosened up their lending standards, so more people could buy homes.



thats pretty funny. even the banks don't have the balls to say that with a straight face.
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 20
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Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/26/2008 3:02:08 PM
Wrong!

It is true that Kenedy cut the highest income tax, but he also removed a lot of loopholes. The net result was an increase in revenue.

Moreover, the Kennedys don't like thier name being associated with the inequity of the Reagan and Dubya tax policies!



http://articles.latimes.com/2001/mar/13/news/mn-36966

JFK Family Asks GOP to Drop Tax Cut Ad
March 13, 2001 in print edition A-5

The family of former President John F. Kennedy asked a group of Republican consultants on Monday to spike a radio ad for the Bush administration’s tax cut that includes a clip of the late president pitching his own across-the-board tax cuts in 1962.

The letter from Caroline Kennedy, daughter of the late former president, and his brother Sen. Edward M. Kennedy said the GOP ad is “intellectually dishonest and politically irresponsible.”

“President Kennedy’s tax cut was responsible. Only 6% of President Kennedy’s tax cut went to those earning over $300,000 in today’s dollars. The Bush tax cut gives them seven times that,” said the letter to GOP consultant Greg Mueller.

The Kennedys said a better comparison is with the Reagan tax cut “that favored the wealthiest Americans.”

The Republicans said they would continue to use the ad. Bill Dal Col, a consultant involved in the ad, said: “It’s a policy ad and a policy debate. I’m sure President Kennedy would have wanted a vigorous policy debate.”

 Lostcauz
Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 21
Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/26/2008 5:59:20 PM

IMHO, based upon what I've been able to learn, this foreclosure crisis was brought on by a LOT of loudmouth cry babies spewing about how they were being discriminated against, because banks would not give them a mortgage. The reasons varied, but, there were as many classes being discriminated against, as there are people.

So, banks loosened up their lending standards, so more people could buy homes.



thats pretty funny. even the banks don't have the balls to say that with a straight face.


It would be laughable, if it weren't true.
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 22
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Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/26/2008 6:03:36 PM
The irony is that idiots like Rush, yes, he is a moron, scream and protest against any regulation of business.

However, Keating 5. . . Whitewater. . . Indy Mac. . . Enron. . . Worldcom. . .

Even Erin Brockovich was part of the reality of what happens when business goes unchecked.

Regulation is there to prevent all of this from happening, do we really want the one responsible back in the White House???

Graham is the key figure in deregulation of the banking industry. . . Of which, McCain was a part of the Keating 5!
 ErikSFBay
Joined: 8/2/2004
Msg: 23
Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/26/2008 6:22:41 PM
the deregulation of the banking industry was intentional because republicans believe that any regulation of the market is bad for the market.

there are government agencies whose job it s to keep an eye on the banking industry and ensure that practices are sound.

in 2003 prior to the mortgage frenzy:



But Mr. Greenspan wasn’t the only top official who put ideology above public protection. Consider the press conference held on June 3, 2003 — just about the time subprime lending was starting to go wild — to announce a new initiative aimed at reducing the regulatory burden on banks. Representatives of four of the five government agencies responsible for financial supervision used tree shears to attack a stack of paper representing bank regulations. The fifth representative, James Gilleran of the Office of Thrift Supervision, wielded a chainsaw.

Also in attendance were representatives of financial industry trade associations, which had been lobbying for deregulation. As far as I can tell from press reports, there were no representatives of consumer interests on the scene.

Two months after that event the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, one of the tree-shears-wielding agencies, moved to exempt national banks from state regulations that protect consumers against predatory lending. If, say, New York State wanted to protect its own residents — well, sorry, that wasn’t allowed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/21/opinion/21krugman.html



just remember that the rule of democracy is one person, one vote. the rule of the market is one dollar, one vote. an unregulated market is inheritantly undemocratic.

despite republicans pretending that like they have a monopoly on market wisdom, the market has consistently done worse under republicans in the post wwii era.

and don't forget it was the anti-regulation republicans who brought you the great depression.

it was bush who after 9/11 encouraged Americans to leverage themselves to the hilt. they claiming it was patriotic.

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/12/20/bush-shopping/

now we have millions of americans on the precipice of disaster. the individual savings rate is $0. the public debt is at record levels. the poverty rate has gone up. unemployment has gone up. average wages have gone down. millions more have lost their insurance and millions of children have slipped into poverty.

regardless, mccain supports the bush disaster by making tax cuts for the rich permanent while repealing much of the middle class tax cut. he supports shifting a trillion more dollars to the rich through a repeal of the estate tax. this would benefit the richest 0.33% of americans, a group that mccain has married into.

so, yes, this republican administration has absolutely wrecked the economy. they made it possible for their rich friends and corporate allies to rake in the profits while the middle class financed it. bush did it, bush sr did it, and reagan did it.

this disaster has been a long time coming.
 TheStefano
Joined: 6/15/2008
Msg: 24
Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/26/2008 6:30:32 PM
In some ways I am, in some ways not. Nothing much to do with "the economy", though.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 25
view profile
History
Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Four Years Ago?
Posted: 8/26/2008 6:48:01 PM
It may sound strange, but, ask any economist, and they will tell you that cutting taxes increases revenue to governments.

It's a simple equation, the more money people have to spend, the more money they will spend.


I suggest a review of the last 28 years or so of the American economy, if you think this is somehow true.

Reaganonmics has been a disaster, for America.

It's government's debt has soared under it, to levels that are threatening the future of the country, and it's financial future.

Wealth inequality has risen, and the nation divided into a "have" and "have not" class.

American's personal credit debt has grown to crisis proportions.

After eight years of a sudden return to such a philosophy, the American economy stands in ruins (compared to it's previous state), hundreds of thousands have lost their jobs, and those that still have them are facing higher costs each and every month.

The fault in your logic is that people who are already incredibly rich will NOT spend more, since they are already saturated in that regard. Anything they do buy probably won't be American, and will be a luxury item of some sort.

Cuts to the lower and working class sectors of the economy go almost isntantly INTO the national economy. That was proven with the latest tax rebate incentive, which provided a short term boost to it....and a cynical man might think enough to make the picture slightly rosier....until November's election. As to your comment about those "fools" who made bad decisions to buy houses, you seem to forget that almost HALF of those deals were not made by bankers....they were made by individuals acting as predators in a housing market, signing on people at exceedingly high risk...and then passing that risk onto bankers - who wanted to play a little casino game with them.

This time, the house won.....or perhaps lost. Those people who got mortgages were APPROVED , by bankers (or some other lender, that then SOLD their packages to bankers).

One of the reasons this same pattern did not happen directly in Canada (although some Canadian financial institutions were stupid enough to get involved in the American market in this regard), was because we did not let this type of deregulation occur.

That wall, one but in place after the Great Depression, was bulldozed down by Gramm and the Republican party - and no one else.

That mantra of deregulation, across your economy, has allowed the Great White Sharks of profit to unleash their fury against America itself. S & L failures, Enron, the subprime mess ?

Gasoline futures, which allow another way to artificially manipulate market prices for personal gain ?

These things did not happen before, because America was protected from this abuse by it's financial laws. The reason they occur now is because that protection was removed in a very deliberate way.

By Republicans.

Vote them in again, and this will continue.

The total cost to the American government, and it's people, from the S & L scandals, Enron, and the sub-prime market mess have cost taxpayers hundred of billions of dollars. That cost is still rising, as we speak.

The credit card market may be the next looming crisis, as Americans cannot meet their monthly bills.

Those things withdraw money from the tax base (since people have less discretionary spending, and therefore reduce spending, and taxes collected), and the financial costs of huge losses are supported by the government in bail outs.

Lose lose.

The worst part ?

How many CEO's and businessmen , those that created these very conditions, will pay for it with job losses - or criminal charges ? Their companies will be saved, and they will continue on collecting huge checks that in fact reward them for their incompetence.


Work at a McDonalds, and be ten dollars short in the cash ? Fired !


If you have to fail in America, fail big.
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