| OK Here goes...
Posted: 9/20/2008 12:55:45 PM | I've been here for several months now, having taken a few extended breaks periodically and am now contemplating taking another one. But before I do, I thought it might be worthwhile to ask questions that maybe I should have asked sooner
Basically, my response rate to messages I send out has been pretty low. Also in all the time I've been here, only one of the women I've exchanged messges with was a result of her making first contact -- I initiated contact for all the others. As reluctant as I am to admit, only recently have I contemplated that there might be something about my profile or my approach that's either unattractive or for whatever reason, dosen't spark someone's interests. I put a lot of thought into writing my profile, trying to make it original and stand out and avoid cliches or overused phrases and the like. I think I make it pretty clear what qualties I'm looking for, trying to make it sound realistc and not reading like a list of ransom demands
And then there's the techniques of my approach when I write women I'm interested in. They are...
1. I don't respond to the profiles of very good looking women; meaning women who would rate about a 9 or 10 in looks. Not only do I realize this would be unrealistic since I'm hardly a 9 or 10 myself, but I also know that those women are probably already getting tons of messages...far more than they can handle in most instances and that the competition is just too much and I'd just be wasting my time and effort for the most part.
2. When I do see someone who interests me, the first thing I do is read every single part of her profile thoroughly to make sure I meet all her requirements (assuming that there's noting in her mailing restrictions that would prevent me from contacting her in the first place), and I fall short of even one of them, I don't bother.
3. I don't respond to profiles that have little or no information, or that are very generic meaning they say something like " Just curious and thought I'd check this out...drop me a line if you wanna chat."  Really...how am I supposed to compose an intelligent and meaningful response to something like that? Not only does it show a lack of effort on her part -- a turn-off for me -- but also chances are good that she's not serious about finding someone and that she's one of those you hear about who just creates a profile for vanity purposes...to see how much attention she can get from guys, even more likely if she has a picture that shows she's above average in looks (see my first point)
4. I make it a point to respond to profiles without visible pictures, as well as those of new users and those who haven't had a first contact email within the last twenty-four hours.
5. When I compose my message, I put alot of thought and effort into it -- commenting on certain things she's written. I want there to be no doubt in her mind that I've read her profile, and not just fired off a message blindly as I understand so many other guys do. And my responses are usually pretty lengthy. Not novel length, but with enough substance to show I've made an effort and to give her something to work with. I also make it a point to ask a question or two. This makes it easier for her to write back if she's interested and helps facilitate a good exchange of messages.
Given the above, I would have thought I'm doing all the right things to maximize my sucess. Unfortunately, my response rate has been about 10-30%, meaning that for every ten responses I send out, only one to three will write back. And even then, the response will often be just a polite "no thanks I'm not interested". In fairness though, it should be noted that among those who do send me such replies do make it a point to say that they appreciate the effort and thought I obviously put into my responses, and how nice a change it is from so many of the other messages they receive, which I certainly appreciate.
But now I'm starting to consider that maybe my profile and / or approach isn't as good as I thought, and that maybe I should make changes. Or is my experience fairly typical for most guys here and am I worrying too much about nothing? I can't really be sure and that's why I'm asking for your help. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome and don't be afraid to be honest -- I promise I won't take it personally. | |
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| OK Here goes...
Posted: 9/20/2008 2:33:21 PM |
1. I don't respond to the profiles of very good looking women; meaning women who would rate about a 9 or 10 in looks. Not only do I realize this would be unrealistic since I'm hardly a 9 or 10 myself, but I also know that those women are probably already getting tons of messages...
2. When I do see someone who interests me, the first thing I do is read every single part of her profile thoroughly to make sure I meet all her requirements
3. I don't respond to profiles that have little or no information, or that are very generic meaning they say something like " Just curious and thought I'd check this out...drop me a line if you wanna chat."
4. I make it a point to respond to profiles without visible pictures, as well as those of new users and those who haven't had a first contact email within the last twenty-four hours.
5. When I compose my message, I put alot of thought and effort into it -- commenting on certain things she's written...
Dude. You are WAYYYYY overthinking this! Too much effort! It's like you're conducting a huge scientific social experiment. Don't approach this in such a joyless, rule-oriented way. Try to have fun. Be random. Be spontaneous.
This isn't a class you need to pass! Try to have fun with the process. Don't graph your results and compare them to determine the best possible method guaranteed to work. You see a girl you like, don't judge whether she's a 9 and your target groups are 6s, dang! Forget that! Just drop her a line, make her laugh. Ask her if she likes Coco-Puffs or Cap'n Crunch better. And if they got into a fight, which one would win? | |
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| OK Here goes...
Posted: 9/20/2008 2:34:50 PM | And dude, your photos all need to be tossed out of the window and set on fire. Not a single smiling one in the lot! I can't tell if your mouth naturally turns down or what, but we want to see a smiling, INVITING expression on your face. HAPPY, even!
The rest of your profile, while too lengthy, is surprisingly good, well-written. Not a huge bucket of yuks, mind you, but good. I think you could judiciously edit it down a bit to make it a better length.
Your first date idea is too over-cautious and, as you say, "boring and predictable." Give us the wild and crazy SECOND date idea you allude to, instead. | |
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Posted: 9/20/2008 2:45:56 PM | | Yup, those photos are bad. The expression on your face is that of someone first confronting a very bad odor. The profile is fairly well written, but dry. | |
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Posted: 11/3/2009 5:06:39 PM | OK I'm resurrecting my old profile review thread (as per forum rules) because after a bit of a hiatus from POF, I brought my profile back online to see how I would fare this time compared to last (note I originally posted this request over a year ago). Unfortunately, I didn't do much better. In the last week, I sent out over 30 messages, but got only three replies. .. and even those three were just polite responses of rejection. I'm going to keep trying, but since I have re-vamped my profile, some new feedback would be appreciated...bearing some things in mind:
First regarding the not smiling in photos...for reasons I've never fully understood, I am not good at expressing "standard" smiles ie; - upward turning mouth showing teeth, and when I try, it feels (and looks) forced and unnatural. So that might explain the facial expression of "confronting a foul smell" of my old pictures. So I have to rely on other techniques when having my picture taken of conveying an expression that appears inviting, or at the very least like I'm not sad or scowling. I hope these current ones manage to show that a bit better.
Second, after I had changed my pictures and still got no responses, I came to the conclusion that it may be the body of my profile that was working against me. I have to admit, I didn't heed the previous reviewer's observations that my writing was dry and "not a bucket of yuks", as Ursula Major said. I've always been reluctant to try and write a funny/witty profile, because I always felt that when it comes to writing a humourous profile, some people or more naturally talented then others. And it can come of as seeming fake or artificial or like one is "trying to hard" . So I opted for the safe approach of not using humour. However seeing as I've got nothing to lose and everything to gain, I threw that aside and said "what the heck - I'll give it a try" So I hope this "new" profile at least elicits a chuckle or two.
Let me know what you think. | |
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| OK Here goes...
Posted: 11/3/2009 6:31:42 PM | Yes, the profile gets a chuckle, but not a date.
Do you laugh? If you do, your cheeks will involuntarily turn upward and your mouth will open. Your eyes will sparkle and crinkle a bit. You will lose 5 years off your age in any picture. Suck it up, get outside with a camera, hand it to a frickin' stranger if you have to, and have a laugh. You look seriously serious in your photos and it really doesn't help.
By having the non-smiling photos, the sarcasm in your profile comes across as really snarly and condescending. Remember, your viewers haven't seen this thread and know about your smiley-photo-phobia.
The profile also doesn't indicate whether or not you'd be open to a single mom or what type of work/employment you have. These can both be dealt with easily in a sentence each, and expand on who you are. At 35, your viewers are likely going to have children, have a career or work themselves and want to know you're not living in your parents' basement.
For me, there were about twice as many random observations as necessary, which were ended with what you and I know is sarcasm, but reads as rude. When someone asks me "Can I ask you a question?" I almost always respond, "You just did. Got another?" So yeah, I can appreciate the silliness of it, but your viewer may feel you'll be judging them every time they open their mouth. Women are silly like that, I know.
A few trims? | |
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Posted: 11/3/2009 6:43:28 PM | | I agree totally with my esteemed colleague YGF above. You have GOT to get a happy photo for your profile. Personally, I would not click on your profile just by seeing your photo, it's not going to attract anyone because you look depressed. I'm sure you have a beautiful smile. Your "about me" section consists mainly of random observations and what not. It's all filler and tells the reader very little about you. Same with the "first date" section. It's just a bunch of foolishness and makes you appear nervous about dating or meeting women in general. Would delete the entire first date section and just mention a few ideas and leave it at that. Best of luck. XV | |
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| OK Here goes...
Posted: 11/3/2009 7:03:49 PM | Well there's a couple of things I want to say about the feedback I've gotten so far, but first to put things in perspective, I'm going to copy and paste the text of my old profile -- the one which Ursula said wasn't "a bucket of yuks" and Hank said was pretty dry.
And here it is:
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For me, filling out this part of a profile can be difficult. I've always felt it's a lot like going for a job interview; a prospective employer says "tell me about yourself". You want to make a good impression, and you know there's only so much you can say. Anyway, here are the basics about me (takes deep breath):
I moved to Nanaimo from the mainland two years ago, and I'm very glad I did. The difference is like day and night, and having lived in big cities most of my life this is a welcome change. And since I'm fairly new here, I don't know that many people yet. (I have a few friends on the island, but most of them live in Victoria!)I'm looking to cultivate as many new friendships as I can, hence why I'm on POF. Of course I'm always open to the possibility of something more if it's meant to happen.
Anyway, here's the basics on what you absolutely must know about me:
One of my greatest strengths is that I like to make people feel good about themselves, and I always try to see the best in people. I can give compliments and praise quite generously when I feel they're deserved, but I won't blow smoke up anyones butt, either. So you can be sure that I'm sincere and mean everything I say.
Don't let my quiet demeanor fool you. While it's true that in group situations, I may talk somewhat less than others, but I've always tried to live by the maxim of "listen more, talk less". And when I DO say something, it's usually something pretty profound. Besides, when I'm with one or two other people I can hold up my end of the conversation quite well. (And that's what really matters as far as you're concerned, right?)
I place a lot of emphasis on harmony in personal relationships, but that doesn't mean I'm afraid to disagree or that I'll keep my mouth shut just to avoid conflict. I'm a firm believer in open and honest communication and resolving differences amicably.
I'm looking for:
Just as I'm not afraid to voice my opinion on something, neither should you. I can't guarantee that you'll always get me to agree with you, but I'll respect you for standing up for what you believe in. Few things are as attractive to me as someone who defends their beliefs with passion.
I'm a fairly flexible person, but make no mistake...I also have a clear set of standards in what I'm looking for; things I won't compromise on and probably the most important of those is intellect. You don't necessarily have to have attained a very high level of education (I've long ago learned that intelligence and education aren't always synonymous), but I must feel that we're both on similar wavelengths intellectually or we probably won't be compatible.
You must take reasonably good care of yourself. Also heavy drinking and/or drug use is an absolute dealbreaker for me, but of course these are the sort of things that should really go without saying.
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OK now having read that tell me...does this one work better than my current one? If you say yes, then I'll go back to using this one. (just as well I saved it) | |
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| OK Here goes...
Posted: 11/3/2009 7:46:35 PM | Well seeing how the sequential posting rule doesn't seem to apply in this particular forum, I'll now address some of the other things said:
<div class='quote'>>Do you laugh? If you do, your cheeks will involuntarily turn upward and your mouth will open. Your eyes will sparkle and crinkle a bit. You will lose 5 years off your age in any picture. Suck it up, get outside with a camera, hand it to a frickin' stranger if you have to, and have a laugh. You look seriously serious in your photos and it really doesn't help.
I really didn't want to get into the nuts and bolts of explaining this, but now I think it's necessary...
The truth is, I am a person with a disability. The disability affects all the muscles in my body, including the smaller ones and hence it does affect even my ability to smile. It takes conscious effort and can be difficult. Now having said that, I probably CAN get a picture of myself laughing, as you suggested. And I will go out with a friend and try to get one.
Now, other things you mentioned:
<div class='quote'>The profile also doesn't indicate whether or not you'd be open to a single mom
I am very much open to a single mom. I have dated women with kids, and almost without exception, they were wonderful women. However, for a variety of reasons - my disability among them - I'm really not sure I want to father any new ones of my own. So let me ask...if I put 'does not want children' under that section and qualify that with an explanation somewhere in my profile to avoid misunderstanding, would that work?
<div class='quote'>At 35, your viewers are likely going to have children, have a career or work themselves and want to know you're not living in your parents' basement.
Rest assured, I am not living in my parents basement and live independently. I am however, receiving disability benefits, and I supplement that with my own income I earn on the side (as I'm legally allowed) from e-commerce and consulting that I do. The harsh, unpleasant reality is I may never be able to work full time as my condition is permanent. But I'm able to pay the rent, and my own bills - as well have a little extra left over on the side for recreation and enjoyment. But right now as it stands, I just cannot financially support someone else and her kid(s). And I think you know as well as I do that there are a lot of women in my age group who are looking for exactly that. Please Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying they're all like that, nor am I passing judgment on them for their preferences. But if that's what they want, then I am not the guy for them.
As you can see, the disability is a tricky issue for many reasons and I'm not sure how and when to bring it up. But I thought it better not to mention it directly in my profile, and wait for the first few exchanges before bringing it up. Maybe thats not the best approach? | |
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| OK Here goes...
Posted: 11/3/2009 8:05:17 PM | The updated version of your profile is much better. As for if and when to mention your disability, sooner would be better than later. Women deserve to know right up front before they contact you. How to do it? You answered that yourself:
The truth is, I am a person with a disability. The disability affects all the muscles in my body, including the smaller ones and hence it does affect even my ability to smile. It takes conscious effort and can be difficult. Now having said that, I probably CAN get a picture of myself laughing, as you suggested. And I will go out with a friend and try to get one.
Put this in your profile. It's well written, it's honest, and it speaks volumes more than all that filler you had in there before. Save your "observations" for a date. It will give you something to talk about. XV | |
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| OK Here goes...
Posted: 11/3/2009 8:13:57 PM | Thank you, xvermonter.
But if I may ask for the purposes of clarification...
When you say the "updated" version of my profile is better, are you referring to the one I copied and pasted here in the thread, or the one as it currently stands right now? Maybe I didn't make it clear enough, but the copy and pasted version is the one I originally used and so you could say my current one is actually the 'updated' one, so I'm a bit confused. | |
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Posted: 11/3/2009 8:14:43 PM | OP - you type WAY too much. I thought I was bad?
You win. | |
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Posted: 11/3/2009 8:27:00 PM | First things first. Hi, XV! 
OK, now that that's out of the way, thank you for clarifying. I wasn't being facetious with the 'do you smile' question, some people truly don't. But - laughing can be involuntary and appears more friendly.
For the kids thing - I'd suggest leaving Undecided/Open, and you could certainly say you'd be open to meeting a single mom. There are many who are wholly self-supporting and would possibly complement you (not "compliment") as a match. You'll be able to tell pretty quickly which ones are which. | |
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| OK Here goes...
Posted: 11/3/2009 11:47:47 PM | Both versions,user name, title--negative, bitter humor.
While you may feel right to feel aggrieved, you cannot put crass--butt blowing smoke up, etc. It does not work for you, the harsh tone.
Do any of us need another "sarcastic" humored (carpy) person in our lives? Co-miseration? Then use this title"Misery loves company". I'd laugh, but you are so poker serious, your following text would be dead serious vs truly kidding around.
You don't mention the disability in the profile--maybe you should prior to meeting. The pics you have imply it, but need something further. Is it CP?
Your strongest aspect is your communication skills. Are you a good conversationalist, friend, etc.?
Some of the pics should be replaced--the swaying ones. I. You need to be looking at the camera as if being introduced.
The dark colors seem aging vs the gold colors. Are your glasses black rimmed--try gold rimmed. Need a dressier shirt in 1--blue would be a good color. One body pic.
Facial hair is aging--consider that. Your msgs may be good--the text and photos are not.
I see great improvement by starting over the text, editing out and replacing some pics. 30 emails in 1 week-sounds like a lot to me, btw.
Best of luck. | |
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