| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/1/2008 10:10:08 AM | At the following website is recorded in written form a conversation with near death experiencer Mellon Thomas Benedict: http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian/2007/November/conversation_Benedict.html
For those seeking the meaning of life it is mind expanding and well worth reading. In my opinion, they who can grasp the implications of this knowledge and have the courage to spread the message, these will eventually change the world. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/1/2008 11:04:20 AM | | A "near death" experience is NOT (as it is too often made out to be) the same as a death experience. A person who has had such an experience is NOT qualified to tell the rest of us what the "other side" is like, because he did not GET to the other side (the fact that he is here to talk about it is proof of that!) | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/1/2008 11:05:33 AM | You don't have to actually die to have this experience. The ancients called a process leading to complete letting go "the dark night of the soul." It is thought that the lower chamber at the Great pyramid of Gizeh was for this express purpose. There's a very good book out called "The Dark Places of Wisdom," that speaks about how ancient cultures (particularly Greek) had processes for taking the initiate through the "death before dying." Initiates were seeking wisdom, in a very personal and intense way. This kind of seeking is practically non-existent today. Here's a link to a synopsis of this fascinating book: http://www.southerncrossreview.org/13/kingsley.html.
I found the phrase "people don't want answers, but focus on their questions," particularly poignant in the article link you posted. So true... | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/1/2008 11:35:37 AM |
You don't have to actually die to have this experience.
That is a bit like saying that you don't have to have actually gone hang-gliding to have experienced hang-gliding. A ridiculous assertion!
The vividness of dreams and the utterly compelling nature of visions induced by drugs or psychosis clearly show that the brain is capable of all sorts of "experiences" that do not directly relate to reality. Add trauma to the mix (making it seem that much more compelling), and it is no wonder he THINKS that he experienced something profound and meaningful.
Observe that virtually all "experiences" of a spiritual nature derive from a change in brain chemistry, induced by fasting, meditation,hallucinogenic drugs, pain, lack of sleep, etc. I have had experiences myself that seemed as "deep" as any I have ever read about, but I am smart enough to be aware of the fact that they were caused by ingesting a chemical. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/1/2008 12:15:13 PM | | Well, I'm not here to convince you. Maybe it's something you have to experience before you believe. (shrug) | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/1/2008 2:58:03 PM | I guess I should have added that Mellon Thomas Benedict "died" of brain cancer, a one way ticket to the afterlife; something that is usually neither curable nor survivable. He is known to have had no vital signs for a hour and a half although this may have been longer as no one was actually present at the moment of death in the hospice. His spontaneous re-animation and complete recovery from the cancer are, for me at least, signs of his having both a messianic and providential purpose in returning to earth. In other words, I don't believe an "evil" entity caused this phenomenon.
It goes without saying that we have problems co-existing on earth for a multitude of reasons not the least of which are race and religion not to mention sexual orientation. We constantly erect barriers separating "us from "them' and yet returning to the "Source" of which we are all fractals is necessary for the consummate afterlife. Clearly a correction in our behavior is necessary for smooth transition, a new and truer view of life and afterlife must be considered a possible mission for such persons as Thomas Benedict | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/1/2008 3:39:35 PM | >>>In other words, I don't believe an "evil" entity caused this phenomenon.
Not that I like to dip into theological debates, but I gotta say.....If God's realm is the natural order of things, both being resurrected and cured of disease hardly seems like a touch from God- seems more like a touch from Satan- since if all things natural is the actions of God, all things unnatural would be the actions of Satan.
Mind you, I'm honestly playing devils advocate here(no pun intended), but with the expectation of Jesus, God really doesn't mess around with the natural order. You have no proof that this man's survival was based on Gods intervention or Satan's(or any theistic being)- its merely an assumption that this man's survival is a blessing from God-but it could just as easily be argued its a curse from Satan, or even merely a coincidence.
Ontop of that, its a proven fact that, when you are dying, you experience hallucinations because your brain and therefore your senses are dying, and your mind is struggling to interpret these senses.
I have no interest in questioning your religious beliefs- but your interpretations are certainly open for debate. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/1/2008 3:47:48 PM | I read the interview. What do we know from eyewitness reports? Was this guy actually dead? Was he really vital signs-absent for an hour and a half? Going blue and stiff?
Personally, I would like to believe in life after death - it makes the inevitability of the second part a little more palatable. And, quite frankly, we don't really know that there isn't something else. I would just be inclined to recommend a little more caution before taking someone's word for it. But that's the journalist in me.
However, I would also disagree with assertions that spirituality is in some way a flaw or, at least, an exercise in self delusion. Having known people who went through a "near death" experience - or whatever label you want to apply to it - and it proved to be a positive experience in terms of a change in attitude, an appreciation for life, etc.
I see nothing wrong with taking on the positive aspects of the message without resorting to absolute and unquestioning belief. In fact, questioning belief should be seen as an excellent method of keeping oneself honest. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/1/2008 3:50:48 PM |
I still prefer objectivism.
Objectivism is an illusion. We're all subject to our own perceptions. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/1/2008 4:51:28 PM | Objectivism is an illusion. We're all subject to our own perceptions.
That does not negate an objective reality apart from our own consciousness/perception.
Objectivism concerns itself with the reality of what is observed, not the the thoughts and feelings of the observer. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/1/2008 5:11:03 PM | [qutoe]That does not negate an objective reality apart from our own consciousness/perception. Objectivism concerns itself with the reality of what is observed, not the the thoughts and feelings of the observer.
Ask Schrodinger's cat about that. ;-)
Seriously, though, objective reality is all well and good. We can agree that something exists whether we view it , or are even here at all. However, as a philosophy, it is dependent on the perceptions of the participants involved. There is the tricky part. If you have two people in a room to observe something, you do get two separate perceptions.
Science faces this challenge. The same data set can be interpreted two different ways. Such is the source of controversy in science. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/1/2008 5:23:03 PM | Seriously, though, objective reality is all well and good. We can agree that something exists whether we view it , or are even here at all. However, as a philosophy, it is dependent on the perceptions of the participants involved. There is the tricky part. If you have two people in a room to observe something, you do get two separate perceptions.
Quite true, perceptions can differ, but we can define objective reality through measurement. You may think I stand 3' from the door, and I think I stand 3.5' from the door. Using a measuring tape, we can discover that I am actually standing 4' from the door, that is the objective reality.
Science faces this challenge. The same data set can be interpreted two different ways. Such is the source of controversy in science.
I'm inclined to think this is a problem for Subjectivism. The data sets being accurate in their attributes would be objective.
But I would be interested if you could provide an example?
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/1/2008 5:46:38 PM | Well, from what I have heard and read, you see it all the time in cosmology and paleontology. Recently, I saw a show on a gliding dinosaurs and what the fossil record indicated regarding how they did it. One side argued for a "splayed" profile, the other argued a "feet under" view. It was interesting, but here we have two groups faced with the physical reality of a fossil and two different interpretations.
Cosmology is another science in which the physical reality fails to elicit agreement, going back to Hubble's first observational evidence of an expanding universe.
Of course there are more. In fact, scientists can get quite strident (so can these forums, sometimes). But it just goes to show, physical realities of measurements do result in disagreement in how to interpret those measurements. It's actually one of the better parts of science. It keeps scientists honest. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/1/2008 6:13:56 PM | Well, from what I have heard and read, you see it all the time in cosmology and paleontology. Recently, I saw a show on a gliding dinosaurs and what the fossil record indicated regarding how they did it. One side argued for a "splayed" profile, the other argued a "feet under" view. It was interesting, but here we have two groups faced with the physical reality of a fossil and two different interpretations.
Cosmology is another science in which the physical reality fails to elicit agreement, going back to Hubble's first observational evidence of an expanding universe.
Of course there are more. In fact, scientists can get quite strident (so can these forums, sometimes). But it just goes to show, physical realities of measurements do result in disagreement in how to interpret those measurements. It's actually one of the better parts of science. It keeps scientists honest.
Agreed.
Your above examples show me, as I interpret it  , that objectivism and subjectivism are not really at odds with each other, but co-exist. The objective reality of the fossil existing, it's attributes, etc. With how the paleontologists interpret this data (Subjectivism). | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/2/2008 6:07:56 AM | A "near death" experience is NOT (as it is too often made out to be) the same as a death experience. A person who has had such an experience is NOT qualified to tell the rest of us what the "other side" is like, because he did not GET to the other side (the fact that he is here to talk about it is proof of that!)
Again, I must disagree with this statement. I was pronounced "dead on arrival" at a hospital in IL in 1972. DEAD. on arrival. My parents were called, my family was called. My heart had stopped beating. They tried to "jump start" my heart and failed. They covered me up with a sheet and put a toe tag on me. My clothing was bloody and in a hospital bag, labeled and ready for storage.
I left my body and had my own, "out of body" experience. I DO KNOW what it is like to be dead. Miraculously, God gave my breath back to me and I sat up and lived again. I've had numerous EEG's and a few MRI's and all of them are normal.
Don't knock something you know nothing about. This person obviously has experienced "firsthand" something that was meant to be. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/2/2008 7:02:39 AM | When an NDE or NDE like experience, you let go of everything that attached you to this temporal reality. You go through a portal and then each person has their own encounter, based on their consciousness. I went up above the galaxy and was able to view our spiral galaxy from above with a being that was bathed in an electric blue light. It was beyond description. Maybe it wasn't what happens when true death occurs, but the expansion of my mind from that one experience was more than the sum total of my experiences in the time/space here. It was more real and more visceral (I could see 360 degrees around) than what I could experience here. It is a reality that can never be erased because it is experienced - not hypothesized or dreamed. In fact, it was not a part of my earthly conscious mind before.
What's more, is I came back with a knowing, which is far, far different than a thinking, that we are all One consciousness. This is now a part of me that will never be replaced with a new idea or be erased. It is beyond faith. I was very skeptical about God and diffident about spirituality before this. I didn't "will" it or "wish" it.
BTW, the Mayans called people that did what I did "starwalkers." I believe that's how they were able to understand the cosmology of our space. Egyptians called us "Melkeizedeks" because we were able to get beyond the seventh plane - beyond Earth, the solar system and the heavens. Our society doesn't have any recognition for spiritual advancement and any real rites of passage for initiates into mysteries. We are so anxious to solve the mysterious, through the limitations of the mind, rather than have a relationship with the mysterious through the soul. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/2/2008 8:31:34 AM | Firsthand anecdotal experiences are powerful and fascinating, but not proof of anything. However, the topic is sufficiently interesting and reported by many people, so a new research study has started which will attempt to scientifically measure and document as much as can be learned about these experiences. It's not an easy study to do, really, and will take years to gather sufficient reliable information. Perhaps this study will answer some of the questions - more likely it will create new ones!
Personally, I think the experiences are an artefact of the chemical and physical changes occuring in a dying or oxygen deprived brain, and while powerful for those who return, have no supernatural meaning. Of course, I've never had such an experience, so I'll wait for more evidence. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/2/2008 5:20:40 PM | The Seed of Consciousness DMT and the pineal gland.
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W5xT3iQ3G8]
Spontaneous DNA, The Rapture, and The Rise to Fourth Density
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbewGohciYw] | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/3/2008 6:30:04 AM |
Maybe it wasn't what happens when true death occurs
That is something of an understatement!
I went up above the galaxy and was able to view our spiral galaxy from above with a being that was bathed in an electric blue light.
I have had similar experiences myself, thanks to a few micrograms of a powerful chemical. Fortunately, I am smart enough not to be deluded into believing that these experiences were real. I am capable of distinguishing between dreams/visions and reality. (Indeed, the lack of this ability is one of the main hallmarks of insanity.) | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/3/2008 6:49:23 AM | I have had similar experiences myself, thanks to a few micrograms of a powerful chemical. Fortunately, I am smart enough not to be deluded into believing that these experiences were real. I am capable of distinguishing between dreams/visions and reality. (Indeed, the lack of this ability is one of the main hallmarks of insanity.)
Hallucinations and the inability to differentiate realilty from fantasy is a hallmark of insanity, true, but so is repeating the same action and expecting different results every time.
If that is the case, then I would have to include nealy everyone in this forum in that category as we all repeat the same actions fully expecting someone else to 1)either change their mind 2) See the "light". (because by golly, we've seen it or 3) we just enjoy argument for the sake of arguing or for attention, which I believe is into's motivation.
The inference to Acid, would explain a lot here.......
The 'fact' that a great number of people have experienced the same thing and their stories, with very little variation, all coincide, leads me to believe there may really be something to this, much more than a lack of oxygen or a chemical imbalance at the time of death.
Each person has a soul with weight. The chemical reaction at the time of death isn't instantaneous, it takes a few hours to occur. The experiences of those who have died and come back is instantaneous. Mine must have lasted only a few minutes otherwise I wouldn't be here to tell.
What is ironic to me is how those of us who hold core values are pidgeon holed as seeing only in black and white. Which is a dicotomy of terms when the "sight" of the "elitests" is soooo black and white, much kettle calling pot black to me. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/3/2008 7:24:53 AM |
The inference to Acid, would explain a lot here.......
What I learned from it is that there is no "religious" or "spirtitual" experince whatsoever that that tiny change in brain chemistry cannot duplicate exactly. This is how I know that such experiences are generated entirely by the brain, and have no basis in reality. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/3/2008 7:27:08 AM |
I DO KNOW what it is like to be dead.
If you had been dead, you would still be dead and not here talking about it!
Death is not a reversable condition. | |
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