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| Religion - The universe is NOT 6,000 years old.
Posted: 12/2/2008 1:28:58 PM | I can depict that the universe is not 6,000 years old without the use of Carbon Dating or Potassium-Argon dating which creationists tend to look at and say that both procedures are incredibly inaccurate.
Many religious people have told me that the universe is only 6,000 years old which is why I am bringing this up.
the speed of light = 299 792 458 m / s
[img]http://www.popularmechanics.com/content/imageview.cfm?img=http%3A//media.popularmechanics.com/images/tb_lg_whirlpool-lg.jpg&caption=[/img]
Heart of the Whirlpool (what astronomers and physicists call it) is 31 million light years away. If we were to judge the speed of light, then it would take us approximately 31 million years to reach earth. Our eyes work by reflecting light from other objects. Without light being reflection from an object, we will never be able to see that object that does not give off light. It would be a black spot and we would not notice its intricacies. Now, in order for us to even see and take pictures of this galaxy, that light would need to hit earth. Without that light hitting earth then we, of course, can't see or even take a picture of that galaxy. It would be impossible for us to take a picture of something such as a star or a planet if it did not give off light. Since it takes 31 million years to reach earth, that galaxy was formed at least 31 million years ago. Since creationists think the universe was created by god, that would mean that this galaxy and that galaxy I displayed were both created at the same time. Since it takes 31 million years for that light to get to us, we are actually seeing light that generated 31 million years ago. The galaxy in question could be destroyed at this very moment, but we will continue seeing the light from that galaxy for centuries to come.
Most creationists do not think that random things can occur within the universe. They often state that Darwinism is wrong and it is impossible to be true since random events can not happen within the world. We can look out at the stars.
Look at this for instance...
[img]http://www.popularmechanics.com/content/imageview.cfm?img=http%3A//media.popularmechanics.com/images/tb_lg_ant-lg.jpg&caption=Photo%20by%20NASA%2C%20European%20Space%20Agency%20and%20the%20Hubble%20Heritage%20Team%20(Space%20Telescope%20Science%20Institute/Association%20Of%20Universities%20For%20Research%20In%20Astronomy)[/img]
As you can see, there is a conglomerate of particles toward the center of the picture. Around the Nebula, you see particles from various chemicals scattered and are not condensed. This Nebula signifies that, since there is a condensed nature to the Nebula itself in the center of the picture, then an explosion would have taken place from that central location. The light that you see scattered around that are not condensed are the left over particles of said explosion. The further you get away from the center, the more scattered it gets. This signifies an explosion. Everything that deals with that explosion is NOT random and neither is evolution.
I had a conversation with another student about Darwinism. He said that evolution is random and thus, we cant possibly exist the way we are because of how we work. I understand their logic, but we are run by the grounds of which our universe has situated for us. We are run by our environment. The environment of this Nebula I linked shows that it is playing by the rules of it's environment. Space is filled with Dark Matter, there is nothing that is not filled with something. It's impossible to have nothing that isn't filled with something.
This picture proves that what occured is not random. if it was random, every object would be scattered everywhere and nothing would be very close together as depicted in the picture. The universe is not random. Einsteins famous quote, "God doesn't play dice with the universe" signifies that the universe is not random.
Just like evolution, it is not a random occurance but an orderly occurance. It follows its own rules and structures based on survivability. Whatever can happen, will happen and if we can come to be, we will come to be.
Any opinions? Thoughts? Idea's? Comments? | |
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| Religion - The universe is NOT 6,000 years old.
Posted: 12/2/2008 2:29:33 PM | Ancient Hebrew is made up of as little as 8000 words. Everything hinges on the translation. The word used in the bible to represent ‘day' is ‘yom’, it is also used to represent 'a time period'. So why come up with 6000 years, it is stated in the New Testament,
2 Peter 3:8 "But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."
Even that is meant figuratively, not literally 1,000 years = one day. The biblical God's sense of time is quite different from ours. Our definition of day is a full rotation of the earth in 24-hours, but during creation, who's to say?
There are 67 verses in the Old Testament, the word Yom is translated into the English word "time."
For instance:
Genesis 4:3, it says "And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord." In this instance, Yom refers to a growing season, probably several months.
Again, in Deuteronomy 10:10, it refers to a "time" equal to forty days.
In I Kings 11:42, it says "And the time that Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel was forty years." In this case, Yom translated as the word "time" is equivalent to a 40 year period.
In Isaiah 30:8, it says "Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever." In this case, Yom is equal to "forever." An infinite number of years...
If Yom can equal trillions of years here, then why not billions of years in Genesis?
Hence the confusion of the earth was created in 6 days when it could be represented in 6 time periods. | |
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| Religion - The universe is NOT 6,000 years old.
Posted: 12/2/2008 3:18:40 PM | In 23 words William Blake a non fundamentalist prophet (perhaps?) doth posit
To see a world in a grain of sand
And a heaven in a wild flower
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour....
The universe is a constantly changing entity and time a human linear construct only. | |
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| Religion - The universe is NOT 6,000 years old.
Posted: 12/2/2008 4:22:50 PM | I'm not arguing one way or the other Verzen, just throwing this out there.
Many religious people have told me that the universe is only 6,000 years old which is why I am bringing this up.
Maybe the religious folk are confusing the universe with our solar system, or in other words the planets and physics that it takes to make life possible for us humans.
The Bible makes a few vague references to the time before creation. Maybe these galaxies from far far away existed in that era
andyyaa makes a good point also. | |
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| Religion - The universe is NOT 6,000 years old.
Posted: 12/2/2008 7:08:35 PM | | The word yom can also mean a literal day. Context should be our guide. The context, in this case, indicates that each yom is a period of morning and evening. That sounds more like a literal day than 1000 years or even an uncertain time period. | |
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| Religion - The universe is NOT 6,000 years old.
Posted: 12/2/2008 7:20:31 PM |
Any opinions? Thoughts? Idea's? Comments? Sure. It's a Straw Man. I don't see anyone here claiming "the universe is 6000 years old". Well, that's if I exclude the people who claim "religious" people claim it is and then set out to disprove it. Oh, right, but that would also make them Straw Man arguments. Oh dear, I think my head is going to to implode.  | |
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| Religion - The universe is NOT 6,000 years old.
Posted: 12/3/2008 9:59:41 AM | 23 different words (re 8K in Ye ancient Hebrew Dictionary)
To see a world in a grain of sand
And a heaven in a wild flower
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour.... | |
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| Religion - The universe is NOT 6,000 years old.
Posted: 12/13/2008 11:29:08 AM | no the universe is not 6,000 yrs old, its 57 yrs old, before that it doesn't matter to me.
maybe modern human man is 6,000 yrs old and before that it didn't matter, the new evolution... why do people constantly challenge status Quo concepts that we do not understand from the bible....I go with Adamaa....
Maybe we should go to one of the Kabbalistic sites and understand watch the Jewish mystics and Rabbis understand about this, I am sure Carl Sagan didn't..... | |
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| Religion - The universe is NOT 6,000 years old.
Posted: 12/15/2008 7:03:04 PM | | Any opinions? MO is God made it and he can call any time frame he wants a day. Thoughts? MT is this world and every proton in it is held together by Gods word and will. Idea's? Intelligent design is more than a way for Ben Stain to make money. Comments? very interesting have you seen the How Great is our God video? It is awesome. | |
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| Religion - The universe is NOT 6,000 years old.
Posted: 12/22/2008 8:39:51 AM | | Well if its intelligent design....then it was implanted in the First Living Cell in the beginning.....and not from lightning hitting a puddle or some cave germs that seem just to happen...there is a design to the cell...if you want to go back far enough....the Clay... | |
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| Religion - The universe is NOT 6,000 years old.
Posted: 12/22/2008 9:48:50 AM |
So I can't use science to prove religion wrong without it being in the religion section? Not unless you can do it scientifically, 100%. But nothing in science is 100%, and that is part of what defines science. So it's impossible to do what you want to achieve, and is just a religious opinion, and so it belongs in the religion section. | |
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| Religion - The universe is NOT 6,000 years old.
Posted: 12/28/2008 10:33:09 AM | I decided not to cry over spilled milk. I believe that the universe came into existence and was not created. I could give you the reasoning, but I tell you what, let's just say God was the "creation" and it went something like this:
In the beginning there was logical thought, and it was called Logos. The Logos became the word, and the Logos became God. | |
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| Religion - The universe is NOT 6,000 years old.
Posted: 12/29/2008 10:50:43 AM | | If 1000 years to us is as a day to the lord and the Jewish year is 360 days long from the time God created light to the time all of the stars were set in the pattern they had at the time of man would be much longer. So according to the way I read my bible the universe was about 1803600000 man level years old on the 6th god level day when God created man and started the days of man. If I'm not right it will not keep me out of heaven as it is not a piont of salvation. My salvation rests upon belief that it was made by a God who cares about it and the role I play in it. Others may believe the universe made by someone just for the fun of it or in a dream state or no one made it that it just happened by random dumb luck. | |
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| Religion - The universe is NOT 6,000 years old.
Posted: 12/29/2008 12:14:20 PM |
My salvation rests upon belief that it was made by a God who cares about it and the role I play in it.
I thought salvation rested on other details, but that is just me. I didn't know I had to swallow the bait, hook, line and sinker. I thought I just had to believe certain things, and figure out the rest. I thought I just had to harvest the wheat, and burn the chaff. | |
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| Religion - The universe is NOT 6,000 years old.
Posted: 12/29/2008 12:28:49 PM | That is why I said. "Others may" you may or may not. Understand? Too bad you do not believe in a God that can make a whole Universe caring for you. Not my problem I do not feel sorry for you as I believe if my God wanted you to believe in Him He would give you faith. As I read it faith is a gift from God.
I wonder at other belief systems I would love to ask an atheist. "Does a tv assemble itself and come on in your universe?"
I thought salvation rested on other details, but that is just me. I didn't know I had to swallow the bait, hook, line and sinker. I thought I just had to believe certain things, and figure out the rest. I thought I just had to harvest the wheat, and burn the chaff. | |
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| Religion - The universe is NOT 6,000 years old.
Posted: 12/29/2008 3:31:28 PM | At this point, I really don't worry if God can make a thousand universes. I would just like to see him to create intelligent life on earth. It's not that he hasn't done a great job, it's just people seem to read a lot more into what is said or written than needs to be discussed. It's a lot like pulling the weeds out of a feild, and destroying the entire wheat crop.
First you need to let the crop grow out. Then you can harvest the wheat and burn the weeds with the chaff. | |
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| Religion - The universe is NOT 6,000 years old.
Posted: 12/29/2008 4:50:55 PM |
Not my problem I do not feel sorry for you as I believe if my God wanted you to believe in Him He would give you faith. As I read it faith is a gift from God.
Wow. The elitism. And the exclusivity. "My" god ...not god, not OUR god...but "MY" god. And what to say of the paradox?!!?
So...let's see if I got this straight...on one hand, gawd doesn't WANT or CHOOSES not to give me his "gift" of faith which (apparently) would make me believe in him (really? faith = belief?), which would mean that I'm "saved" or at least have a fighting chance at being saved.
But.....in order to be saved, I have to believe /have faith, which he apparently for some reason decided to NOT GIVE me even though anyone who has seen many of my posts know that I begged ON MY KNEES for years for that faith to be given to me as a (brainswashed) child!
Okay...so he doesn't want to give me the faith that I need to get save cuz he's the decider of WHO gets that faith (is it a number thing I wonder? birth-date? the Zodiac? odd/even numbers? gawd...does he gamble I wonder?) but yet I'm punished/ridiculed/questioned/and sent to HELL for not having faith which he DID NOT give me so how can I have faith and blah blah blah.
Wow.
And people wonder WHY I am a strong anti-theist?
Haha. Ehh...I mean, I wonder too;)
I wonder at other belief systems I would love to ask an atheist. "Does a tv assemble itself and come on in your universe?"
Atheism is NOT a belief system. It never was a belief system and it never will be. However, you are more than welcome to think it is.
But in the same way that I would "correct" someone for calling a dog a cat on a "cat and dog" forum, I'm correcting the often repeated fallacy that "atheism is a belief system" on a religious forum.
However, people are free to call dogs cats all they want in the privacy of their own homes or while out with other people who call dogs cats and vice versa.
But as someone who KNOWS the difference between a cat and a dog, I like using the proper terminology whenever possible. I'm funny like that, but I like to think being funny is my very own gift that my very own gawd gave me:)
Does a tv assemble itself and come on in MY universe?
Why yes, yes it does. You mean my/yours/the universe that is 6000 years old or whatever long number it comes up to in "biblical" years that "we" can interpret any which way we want in order to "fit" whatever agenda "we" are pushing...ehh...I mean embracing?
Oopsie Daisie...what a coincidence....a tv just assembled itself in my living room at this very moment (ooooh I bet those pink invisible elephants sitting in my living room but that nobody can prove are NOT there will be thrilled - it's a beauty - a high definition flat screen tv nonetheless) !!!
OP...why wonder about anything? It's simple really...when in doubt or when things cannot be explained (or when it's just too darn complicated) or when you can't admit that perhaps, just perhaps it's okay that things cannot always be explained and that's it's okay to NOT have an answer for everything (which a LOT of people seem to have a problem admitting IMO)......just say that goddidit and be done with it. You can switch it to godsaidit or godwantit or goddecideit or whatever "fits" best...K?
So is the earth 6000 years old? Well, I don't know but godditit. See? No need to search or wonder any further. Just remember...godidit. I'd tell ya to say goddiditall but it doesn't sound as catchy...well that's what I think anyway. But what do I know? Apparently I wasn't gifted in "some" areas that others were privileged to be gifted with, so who knows what else I wasn't "given"?
JM*SBHO
*Sarcastic but honest
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| Religion - The universe is NOT 6,000 years old.
Posted: 1/4/2009 2:50:19 PM | How cute. You're mad necause I believe you can believe what you believe without my approval. I'm not Sid Roth it is not my road. I was raised Agnostic. I studied a lot of things before I became a Christian and the way it happened for me was very personal. It was a one on one meeting. That is why I say My God just like I say My Mom or My Dad.
I do not know why everyones walk is different but if I lived forever I'd want veriety too. The piont of creation was to have fun. He made the Universe because He could. My God is the God who gave a town hemmriods because they annoied him. He sings over me and laughs with me. My God is fun and loves me with no strings attached. He knows everything so I can reason with Him. One day I was short so He told me to walk cash just started flying at me from three sides as the wind whipped it from the ground and plastered it on my legs. Once it just appeared in my pocket. Now I have steady work but it is so much fun to buy a gift or give a person cash out of the blue because I know my God has me covered 'cause in my Universe He made every atom and partical.
I know you live on the same Earth I do but your view of it is so different it may be said they are not the same planet. No to views are the same ask anyone who has studies Criminology | |
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| Religion - The universe is NOT 6,000 years old.
Posted: 1/9/2009 8:00:51 AM | Oldsoul,
This post is for you. Others might glean the field, but I am planting these seeds for you.
So...let's see if I got this straight...on one hand, gawd doesn't WANT or CHOOSES not to give me his "gift" of faith which (apparently) would make me believe in him (really? faith = belief?), which would mean that I'm "saved" or at least have a fighting chance at being saved. Faith is simply a belief you hold in your heart. It must reside there, or it is not faith. To shatter a faith, will break your heart. As tiny as a mustard seed it is, but so powerful that it will manke your knees weak. You feel betrayed, abandoned, and lost when your faith is lost.
I begged ON MY KNEES for years for that faith to be given to me as a (brainswashed) child!
I did the same as an adult, and recieved no answer. It broke my heart. I applied reverse logic. There was no God. If the Bible was factually correct, I followed the instructions to the letter. I asked for the truth in the name of Jesus Christ and did not recieve it. No answer came. After so many times of trying it, I fainally applied reverse logic, and the answer came. There was no God. Therefore, the prayer was answered, and there was a God.
Now you simply need to figure out how a God can be, and not be. Or better yet, what he is, and what he isn't. He is not the Creator of the Universe of 6000 years ago, yet She is. He is Male, but he is Female. She is Love, but she shows indifference.
Don't worry if the answers don't come to you right away. It took 4 years for me to get this far from that day. | |
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| Religion - The universe is NOT 6,000 years old.
Posted: 1/11/2009 5:54:08 AM | Don't worry if the answers don't come to you right away.
Me worried? Not at all. My "prayers" were indeed answered a very long time ago. And the answers did come to me fairly quickly and at a very young age...it's amazing what happens when you let some fresh air and sunshine in and move away from the shadows.
And the begging on my knees and the mourning of my faith are just distant memories, much like someone recalling a bad dream they had a long time ago but without experiencing any of the fear or sadness they had at the time.
And just like a bad dream is made to look silly when seen in the light of day and exposed for what it is (a fantasy, an illusion, a figment of your imagination = aka not real) so are those memories made to look silly.
But I was just a child and children are vulnerable and powerless - if someone places them in the shadows and doesn't allow them to see the light, they might not even know that such a bright and wonderful place exists for years and years...sometimes never.
But lucky for me, my prayers were answered early and I was "allowed" to see the light I was so desperately seeking when I was just a child (even while the shadows were still lurking over me) - I do indeed feel blessed:).
As far as the universe being 6000 years old? Oh sure. Why not? How about 60,000? Do I hear 600,000?
How about we make it an even 6,000,000 and call it day?? Or night? People can even make it a biblical day (or night) if it helps them sleep better at night. Me, I'll sleep good regardless because I don't need to know .
Would I would love to know? Sure....but I don't NEED to know. I'm perfectly okay not knowing, and I don't need to fill the holes with anything. Besides, filling in the holes would only prevent the light and fresh air from coming in, or at least it would for me (and in my opinion).
JMO
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| Religion - The universe is NOT 6,000 years old.
Posted: 1/12/2009 9:35:45 AM |
My "prayers" were indeed answered a very long time ago. And the answers did come to me fairly quickly and at a very young age...it's amazing what happens when you let some fresh air and sunshine in and move away from the shadows.
That is really wonderful to read from my perspective. It is overwhenlming that it is the one prayer I said, and the one prayer which continues to reward me. I simply asked for truth, and I keep finding more of it. Some of the truth almost appears to be revailed supernaturally, but mostly I have to my hand to the plow and seek it diligently.
As far as the universe being 6000 years old? Oh sure. Why not? How about 60,000? Do I hear 600,000?
I am still looking for the truth. I want an exact muber! I demand it if you are going to put it in print!
 is in the details.
I suppose I have use a conditional phrase, but don't most anthropoligists and geologists believe that the dinos dissapeared about 200 million years ago? What is a cople hundred thousand between friends who still question, and admit that they can't always have exact details at their fingertips?
Would I would love to know? Sure....but I don't NEED to know. I'm perfectly okay not knowing, and I don't need to fill the holes with anything. Besides, filling in the holes would only prevent the light and fresh air from coming in, or at least it would for me (and in my opinion).
I am with you here. If I find the peg that fits, then I can fill the hole. Otherwise I will enjoy the air and the light with you. | |
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| Religion - The universe is NOT 6,000 years old.
Posted: 1/18/2009 9:53:23 AM | Believing the earth is 6000 years old is akin to believing that the distance from NY to SF is 27 yards....that's how far off fundies are from known scientific data.
The ice caps at the north and south pole show layers of precipitation WELL over 60K years nevermind 6K.
We see light from stars that are millions of light YEARS away.
The oldest living tree is around 8K years old. etc | |
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| Religion - The universe is NOT 6,000 years old.
Posted: 1/18/2009 10:02:54 AM |
....that's how far off fundies are from known scientific data. The ice caps at the north and south pole show layers of precipitation WELL over 60K years nevermind 6K. We see light from stars that are millions of light YEARS away.
The oldest living tree is around 8K years old. etc
Fundies are fun. Give them a blind man for a leader, and he might lead them out of the pit. | |
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