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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/8/2008 10:51:46 PM | As a small business owner,do you have any rights against abusive customers?
I did a search and there are lots of
-consumer rights
-employee rights
I have not found any information on laws that protect the business owner... | |
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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/8/2008 11:12:37 PM | I have been a small business owner 10 years, and to my knowledge you can simply chose not to business with them. That's your only real recourse.
I actually find myself in this situation more often than I like. My business is installing and maintaining Point of Sale systems for bars and restaurants, mainly. When some one purchases the software we resell (we are the local rep for the area, we don't actually write the program- sell and support it and are a separate business entity), it's really a 5-7 year business relationship (in other words, a long time for things to go wrong). As such, many times the restaurant owners- who in general, don't have the greatest reputation for being angels as it is- get frustrated with cost and upkeep with the systems. Sometimes it's justified, many times it's not. Sometimes it all comes down to the fact that they just don't want to pay for services.
Here's the kicker... they've sunk a good chunk of change in these systems initially, and can't just up and go to another one- it doesn't make fiscal sense if everything is running "relatively" well. Typically, only one - maybe two - other companies in the area will know the ins and outs of a particular system.
The upshot is, they are stuck with you, and for the most part, you are stuck with them. Sometimes they feel their only outlet is ... well.. just to be nasty.
On a side note, what I've learned over the years in for many of these people, giving in and trying to make them happy when they are out of line, only increases the odds that they will behave like that in the future. Because of this- and an overall lack of patience- I've gotten a lot firmer with them over the years, including refusing service to them.
Why are you asking anyway? | |
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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/9/2008 4:44:00 AM | 20 percent of your customers will take up 80 percent of your time, while the other 80 percent of your customers suffer because of this. Post a sign stating that you reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason, gladly refund their money and refer them to your competitors who will curse you for it, and proceed to take care of your "good" customers, who are your bread and butter.
My point: Many years ago I worked for a successful restaurant chain as a waiter. We had a small group of customers who would come in about once a month, order, eat half of their meal, then proceed to complain about the service and food. There was nothing wrong with the food or service. We were all very well trained, and the managers weren't sitting in the office drinking coffee. They were on the floor helping us serve food or bus tables, or in the kitchen helping the cooks get the food out. These people had learned that if they complain, not only would they get a free meal, but they would get their next meal free as well. We did some pretty evil things to these people, short of spitting in their food. Evil is one thing. Lack of class is totally different.
You are not Walmart. You can't afford to let people abuse your business. Stand firm but fair, and the best of luck to you. | |
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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/9/2008 9:07:30 AM |
I was surprised recently when Sprint made news because they refused to renew contracts for about 2,000 customers they deemed problematic.
I remember that. But it would tend to suggest the opposite of your reply, due to the fact that there was quite a bit of consumer outrage toward Sprint for deciding to eliminate these customers... the reaction of the press/public was "how dare they" as if they didn't have rights.
Even my reaction was kind of like "wow" at first, but when I actually read the article it was very convincing that these pain in the a$$ customers should have been fired a long time ago. They provided numbers explaining the decision and they were way out of wack- I wish I could remember more details, but it was something nuts like these customers were averaging being on the phone with customer service like 5 hours a week- I can barely remember a time when I had to call customer service. | |
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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/9/2008 3:03:39 PM | I agree with Kevinmach, Your only choice is to not do business with them anymore.
I've fired two people within 6yrs. One, I kept on too long, but finally got the guts to let them go, it just was not worth it anymore. The other, I let go of pretty quickly, because I finally got to the point of just knowing the type, at that point. It's called weeding out the bad, so one can make room for the great ones that keep your business running smooth. Hard to do, hard to face, but it's just one of the many parts involved, of what it takes to keep your business thriving and a much more enjoyable. I've found that when I let a bad one go, another one or even two really wonderful clients, come along, shortly after, to fill the spot. That makes one feel better after going through the decision to not do business with another.
Good Luck. | |
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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/9/2008 3:53:15 PM |
When I heard this it was with a spin as to how positive a move it was and that Sprint was doing so well financially that they could actually turn away business. The news outlets I heard this on did not mention any public outrage. Your mention of it here is the first I've heard of it. As a Sprint customer myself I understand why they would do this and realize it actually helps keep my phone bills reasonable. Can't understand why any consumer would not see this as well.
"Public outrage" may have been too strong of a term for me to use, but the tone of the article (to be fair, the only one I read, which was a yahoo link), was definitely written from the direction of "shock value" and seemed to hint that the customers were somehow treated unfairly. After all, this isn't something you hear about very often, especially with bigger companies.
The other, I let go of pretty quickly, because I finally got to the point of just knowing the type, at that point. It's called weeding out the bad, so one can make room for the great ones that keep your business running smooth.
So true. It's funny how many times I've been able to spot problematic customers as I've been in the business longer, and also at identifying "turning points" in the business relationship. For example, the first time a customer calls and complains about a rather routine bill or something of that nature. Unfortunately, it usually doesn't get better, so at that point I start getting more vigilant with them about making sure their bills are paid so I am not holding the bag if they go somewhere else for service-which has happened many times | |
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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/9/2008 3:54:37 PM | As long as it's not racially motivated and you're not bound by a contract, I think you can just refuse service.
To avoid getting abused by customers, contracts or statements of work should be written and approved by both parties. Be as detailed as possible and try to cover everything that needs to be done including materials used, when the job starts, the duration, terms of payment, etc. Make sure you state that any changes needed later have to be approved by both parties and at extra cost. That way the customer can't ask you to do stuff for free that's outside the scope of the contract. You can probably find samples of contracts on the web. | |
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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/9/2008 4:01:16 PM | This info is very helpful to me, as I am going to follow thru with my desire to start my own business.
When I've made attempts to run my own biz in the past, I have gotten strong instincts early on (on the phone or email) about a potentially difficult customer. I didn't know enough back then to pass on them, but now I will. I thought then that I had to just put up with anything because I needed the money, or that I couldn't be super picky because there weren't enough customers to go around.
Would some of you biz owners here agree that it is best to heed those early instincts - when they're telling you that you're dealing with an impossible/nuts/disturbed person? | |
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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/9/2008 5:53:48 PM | Would some of you biz owners here agree that it is best to heed those early instincts - when they're telling you that you're dealing with an impossible/nuts/disturbed person?
As you become more familiar with what is you do, as you deal with more and more customers- just like the other gal posted, there are definite patterns you can see that seem to be somewhat accurate predictors of customer behavior.
I wouldnt define it much differently than I would predicteding the behavior of the guys you date on POF, but maybe a little more accurate than that. When you start dating a guy and everything is going ok-- but you notice he is mean to say, his dog, your first impression would be that he is probably not going to be very nice to you, eventually. Not a 100% certainty, but enough to make you take notice. You won't always be right, but at least you can take steps to protect yourself in case things do go south.
Another thing it helps with in my business is pricing. Each system we install is custom- no two are identical, so prices will vary anyway. But what many people who have been in the service industry can tell you (as in contractor services), is prices are usually negotiable to a certain extent. How pliable they end up being will often be a function of many things- how badly the service provider needs the business, whether or not that are busy that time of year, and maybe even if payroll is due next week :)
As it applies to this situation- if a customer gives me the vibe that they are going to be a complete pain and make me work for every penny- it doesn't mean I will walk away necessarily, but I will price accordingly (usually by not discounting too much, and in some extreme cases, maybe even charging a little more- though normally your pricing should leave a little wiggle room to come down anyway).
Lastly, depending on the type of work you do and if it matters- it doesn't hurt to just ask around to inquire about the persons reputation (the longer you are in business, the more resources you will have for this). In my case, restaurant owners deal with a lot of different companies to maintain there operations and other business owners in the community usually talk to each other, have reputations... even past or former employees can be a source of information. Bad news travels faster than good, if they aren't such a joy to deal with, other people will know. | |
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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/9/2008 7:01:20 PM |
As a small business owner,do you have any rights against abusive customers?
PITAs...Not the bread, but the Pains In The Ass.
As others have already said, you fire them. That may initially sound odd to non-business owners, but business is a two-way street and the customer is NOT "always right". They're only "right" if you want to keep their business. I've fired a few of them over the years and you know what? The loss of their usually-not-lucrative business was a bargain than having to deal with habits and tendencies their mommies should have broken them of long ago. These are generally the freeloaders of society.
Then there are those who say they'll tell all their friends about you and not to patronize you. That might work for a while, until you realize that you have NEVER had one single referral from them in years. "YOU'RE FIRED, PITA!"
I fired one just last month. Yes, I could have used the work, but this lady has been reaming me on price for 6-7 years now. Always whining about how she loves the quality of work, but the price is "too much". Compared to what? The half-fast work you get from others for the same price you want to pay me? She's another one who promises all kinds of referrals, yet NOT A SINGLE ONE in all that time.
No thanks, PITA..."You're FIRED!!!" If I want to pay someone to work for them, I'll go do charity work and make sure the media happens to hear about it.
On the flip side...I know several fellow business owners who've fired customers. Those habitual PITAs then went out and told all their so-called friends. Some of those friends then promptly began calling - because they know the PITA is such a PITA, anyone who is bold enough to fire them must do pretty good work. Others just plain ignored the PITAs...ROFL!!!
These are generally not your best customers. There is no law that says you have to put up with their selfish, self-righteous BS. That's why it's called "self-employment".
Oh, one last thing...If the PITA continues to call and berate you, inform them ONE TIME that you've heard all you're going to from them and they have no cause to communicate with you further by phone. Inform them that if they continue to call, you will have them charged with telephone harassment. Refer any further communication they may feel necessary to be sent in writing to your attorney. If they continue, then by all means report them. | |
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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/9/2008 8:22:15 PM | That's the other thing I was so afraid of - that the PITA's would badmouth me. But wantasmart1 has made me not worry bout that so much LOL.
These are initial weirdnesses my past PITA's would do that I should have seen as red flags (and this was regarding me doing housecleaning):
1. One lady sounded nuts and lonely on the phone...quickly confessing to me that she was the mother of a local American Idol contestant; unbelievable. Then saying that she planned to "clean right along side of me". Uhh no thx.
2. One lady just sounded abrupt and "off"; I cleaned for her and found out she was indeed a social weirdo who wouldn't let me use the vaccum on her rugs; wanted me to sweep because "she grew up in a family so poor they didn't have a vacuum".
3. One lady was very imperial and condescending in her initial email to me - turned out to be really demanding and mean.
4. Yet another woman got really mad when one of my references hadn't returned her call within a couple of hours.
I'm not going to work for these types. | |
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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/9/2008 9:28:12 PM | | As far as I'm concerned if it's private property you have every right to tell any one you want to that you need to ask them to leave the premises. Screw 'em. If they want to hire a lawyer and produce evidence that you treated them illegally bring it on. Just watch for your tires being slashed by certain types. | |
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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/9/2008 9:55:14 PM | i think most businesses have the right to refuse service signs hanging up inside thier premises somewhere. if someone is rude or out of line you certainly ahve the right to ask them to leave or refuse to serve them. you better be sure that you can afford to lose thier business though. in some cases it is really better to get them out of your hair and send em to someone else. it's just something you ahve to weigh carefully though.
is the customer always right? nope. often they are not only wrong, but they sometimes think they can just say whatever they want to someone because they ARE the customer. i dont; think there is anythign wrong with just telling an unruly customer that you'll get someone else to help them. often this is the best way to handle difficult people.
either way, noone has the right to threaten someone or call them names, or swear at them, etc. that sort of behavior is just way out of line...
lar | |
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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/9/2008 10:52:04 PM | Then there are those who say they'll tell all their friends about you and not to patronize you.
As you alluded to later in your post, most of the people who have the habit of going off and being unreasonable is a behavior that's well known to their friends and business associates. Odds are, if you are a reasonable business person, and being reasonable to resolve their issue, that you're not the first person that they've threatened "to tell everyone" about.
Ever been friend with someone who is always ranting and assailing mutual friends behind their back over petty issues? And you just kind of roll your eyes, even though you are pretending to listen? Same concept at work here.
I had one client tell me that an unhappy customer who we previously serviced was trying to get them to use his new IT person (a person that was clueless about the specialized work we do). Not only did my customer brush it off and tell me about it, almost making fun of the situation- he was actually kind of angry with the guy for recommending they entrust their business needs to someone he knew the disgruntled customer really didn't know anything about - just to get back at me. The angry guy had a history of tumultuous relationships and everyone knew about it (including me, he just never turned on *me* in our 8 year business relationship-up to that point, anyway).
Inform them that if they continue to call, you will have them charged with telephone harassment.
Actually, you may even be able to go further than that. In the situation I just mentioned, what the guy was doing is called tortious interference with business activity, where they can be sued for damages. I made sure to tell his attorney when we were settling our disagreement out of court, that I considered this matter at rest- and if I heard any more n0nsense of this type, he would be hearing from my attorney.
It's a damn shame it has to come to this, but sometimes people are just an adult shell with a mentality of a spoiled child. Thank god I have found most people are not like this. | |
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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/11/2008 12:37:39 AM | well my problem is with a client that likes to 'bud in line'
I told him that I had 14 people infront of him,and that it would take awhile to complete his job. He waited awhile,then became impatient....
I started to work on his job a bit so I could not just tell him to go elsewhere
Because he screamed at me ,I put him INFRONT of clients just to get him off my back.Now my nice/good clients are waiting because of...."the squeaky wheel"
what should I do?
how much abuse is too much abuse?
where do you draw the line? | |
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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/11/2008 1:48:31 AM | Because he screamed at me ,I put him INFRONT of clients just to get him off my back.Now my nice/good clients are waiting because of...."the squeaky wheel"
what should I do? how much abuse is too much abuse? where do you draw the line?
In Canada, unless bound by Contract or other Agreement, you can refuse Service to anyone. The only Trouble you could possibly get into is by citing discriminatory Reasons, such as you are Black, a Woman, Gay, etc.
Simply state you no longer wish to service that Customer, ask him to leave the Store etc. and keep your Reason(s) very short so as to not invite any Arguments. Suggest some other Outfit would meet his Requirements better.
A good Technique is too repeat yourself until the Client leaves, such as "Please leave the Store, Sir". If he asks why, just keep repeating yourself and lead him out if necessary by going towards the Door. Just keep repeating yourself until he is gone. This clearly tells him you are not interested in discussing anything, you just want him to leave. Sometimes they swear and curse for a while, throw a little Scene, but just keep repeating yourself, be firm and friendly.
If you take on Contract Work and he leaves an Item with you, or you contract for Home Services or Service Calls, tell him you are too busy to take on any new Work and suggest he go somewhere else.
I started to work on his job a bit so I could not just tell him to go elsewhere
If you started to take something apart, then you are responsible for putting it back together, minimally the same Condition it was when he brought it in. If that cannot be done short of completing the Entire Job, I suggest you get it done ASAP to get this Client off your Case, and then never take anything on from him again.
I told him that I had 14 people infront of him,and that it would take awhile to complete his job.
Get into the Habit of specifying a Date, or when you are sure of a Date it will be complete. Telling him you have 14 Clients may mean nothing to him, allowing him to conceive whatever Time Frame he wants.
I myself make a strict Practice of giving approximate ETA or Project Completion limited by enviromental Factors of Course. Anyone not happy with that, Adios Mustachios. | |
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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/11/2008 3:48:55 AM | Duct Tape Marketing is a nifty little website that has some good tips on business owner’s rights… a couple of the blurbs which stood out for this scenario are:
5. You have the right to terminate conversations with others because you don’t feel that your experience is being respected.
10. You have the right to say No to someone in order to say YES to you!
As others have mentioned, you have the right to refuse service under reasonable or unreasonable circumstances. (depending on how one is looking at the situation)
Furthermore, you shouldn’t be concerned with losing more business due to the negative things that person might say as the only ones that would listen to someone such as that are also the kind of people you truly wouldn’t enjoy having as customers. As a business owner, you cannot afford to be strong-armed by customers into providing services that you wouldn’t give the average person off the street… the good customers understand that you have others to service and a business to run… those are the ones that you want to return to you…
Also, as Ticket mentioned, provide a date/time that the work will be finished… you can provide on the spot repairs, but make sure that you let the person know politely that you may need to stop working on his/her item to serve a walk-in client as well…
Reasonable customers understand the concept of client service. | |
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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/11/2008 5:26:24 AM | | You ABSOLUTELY have rights, and might even want to put them right into your service agreements so that the customers/clients can't say they didn't know you were putting up with any BS. I have done it. More than once I have said, "And now, you are cordially invited to leave, never to return." | |
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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/11/2008 12:38:40 PM | | Yes! I've refused to work with clients..I referred them to others that may be able to help them more than I was able to..just to discover they had already turned them away. Fortunately, the customer is not ALWAYS right. As long as you are able to look back and know that you made the best decision for the both of you at that time, never will you have to compromise respect of yourself and that of the client. Good Luck :) | |
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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/11/2008 4:09:18 PM | well my problem is with a client that likes to 'bud in line'
I told him that I had 14 people infront of him,and that it would take awhile to complete his job. He waited awhile,then became impatient....
I started to work on his job a bit so I could not just tell him to go elsewhere
Because he screamed at me ,I put him INFRONT of clients just to get him off my back.Now my nice/good clients are waiting because of...."the squeaky wheel"
what should I do?
how much abuse is too much abuse?
where do you draw the line?
Based on this new information, here's what I would do to prevent this from happening in the future.
- Put up a sign saying "First Come, First Served"
- Put up a sign saying "Rush Jobs Additional Cost" and set up a different rate for rush jobs. Make it high enough so that you don't feel bad about being abused. In the end, we're all just whores and we all have our price. 
- Anyone asks for special treatment, point to the signs. Unless it's a hot chick. | |
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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/11/2008 5:12:28 PM | [well my problem is with a client that likes to 'bud in line'
I told him that I had 14 people infront of him,and that it would take awhile to complete his job. He waited awhile,then became impatient....
I started to work on his job a bit so I could not just tell him to go elsewhere
Because he screamed at me ,I put him INFRONT of clients just to get him off my back.Now my nice/good clients are waiting because of...."the squeaky wheel"
what should I do?
how much abuse is too much abuse?
where do you draw the line?]
Ok, very calmly, if possible, tell this client, "I'm very sorry, but due to overload of clients who have come in before your request, I am currently finishing the previous, while doing my best to satisfy your urgent request. I certainly want to full fill your needs, if you are willing to wait, but if your needs are so urgent, I'll be glad to give you a referral. That's right, send him to someone else, or get someone else to do the job, taking a loss. Save the receipts to write off tax season, as a loss. If you can't find a win, win situation here for yourself and this client, let it go, but don't shoot yourself in the foot, as far as your reputation goes. Do it, but do it nice, you'll get better rewards for business, in taking a step back, before proceeding to take care of this situation.
That is the best I can do. | |
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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/11/2008 6:05:26 PM | wow, this is all great advice.
I think what I have to do in the future is to draft up a 'customer service policy'
which covers my position on these issues. I have avoided do it in the past,because I run 'happy good feeling/once I meet you your are a friend for life" kinda business.
Most deals are done with a smile and a handshake ....handing them a list of bad sitution senerios....is kinda like asking a girl to marry you and then quickly handing her a pre nup.....99.9% of my customers are jems
' ALMOST no schmucks served in 5 yrs" is another sign I should put up too | |
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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/12/2008 7:47:41 AM | Thanks to pssst for listing ducttapemarketing.com. I deal with a lot of new clients (and sometimes clients who have been in business for a while) who do not know how to deal with their customers or do not know how to market themselves effectively. As such, There are some things I have to explain to them in order to help them protect themselves from those customers who are p!@#$% off at the world and go after the nearest target (being my customers).
The same goes with the occasional customer that I deal with when I am at the job that pays the bills. It is unfortunate that customers treat employees in the service sector worse than what they treat themselves. I was brought up to always treat people with the same amount of dignity and grace as you would wish to be treated.
As such, if someone is dissatisfied on my service of ringing them up and cashing them out (each transaction I make used to have an average of 3 seconds. It's probably longer now due to glitchy software), they always have the option to go somewhere else. Granted, it might hurt the profit of your business by losing that customer, but is it really worth the verbal abuse and physical and emotional stress that customer causes you? In the end it is usually worth the decision to cut them. Remember- They came to you for your expertise, not the other way around. | |
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| Business owner's rights / abusive customers
Posted: 12/12/2008 11:11:42 AM | as a small and medium business owner for the past 25 years
it never gets better
at the first sign of disrespect to you and your time fire the customer
and i mean the first sign
send them to your competitors
if you do not the problems will just get bigger and bigger
a small % will change their attitude and become great customers
those that go to your competitors are doing you a great favour
they bog your competitors down
and leave you free to soar
dont take on problems and if half way through - cash out give them a fair refund and get yourself out
you teach others how to treat you - dr phil | |
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