| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/21/2008 12:16:22 PM | My 15 year old daughter has got me thinking about something the past couple of days, she pointed out to me on some TV programme or other the other day how she thought it was cool that they have same sex dance couples nowadays. I'd not noticed before but when I looked I noticed that as well as the traditional male/female paired up dancers on the stage doing an emotive kind of slow dance, there were a couple of pairs of men doing the same too. (Didn't notice any pairs of women but then that wouldn't have really been anything unusual if I had I don't think)
She then said that on Boyzone's new vid for their new single, all of the guys are paired up with a woman who they are singing to and caressing and Stephen Gately is paired up with a man doing the same.
I asked her why she thinks it's cool and she said, "well it's more realistic isn't it and it includes more people, a few years ago Stephen would have had to ponce about with a woman pretending he's straight, so it's good he can be who he is and be proud and happy."
She shocked me about a year ago when she came home and told me that one of her mates had finally come out and told everyone at school that he's gay. I was surprised, in my day nobody would have dared do that. I asked how the other kids reacted and she just shrugged and said "we all kinda guessed already, the girls think it's cool that he's finally come out and the boys just had a laugh with him and told him not to eye them up in the changing rooms and stuff"
Do people think this is a good thing and a good way forward that attitudes are obviously changing (they've changed considerably since my day) or do some think this is almost promoting homosexuality as something cool?
Personally I think it's a good thing that young people can be open about what they are and don't have to go through years of torment hiding and fighting it these days and I think it's good that it is being recognised in the media that gay people love other gay people and there are more than the conventional boy/girl relationships out there.
Just thought it would be interesting to hear other opinions... | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/21/2008 12:22:30 PM | I defo think its a good thing and not just for young people either.
Everyone should be happy and not afraid to be seen as who they are and if they are in a same sex relationship etc so be it.
I remember watching Stephen Gately on a show saying he wasnt sure whether it would be the kiss of death telling all that he was gay..........thank goodness it wasnt such as he has the right to be whoever he wants too be
My bf's cousin and auntie (lasses gran)are going banana's cos cousins daughter has shacked up with a girl.....she looks happy and healthy and contented and is off to Liverpool to spend xmas with her gf....Auntie said ' no way am i giving her money to spend traipsing off with THAT girl'..........why???? cos she thinks same sex relationships are wrong
It'd be a poor do if we were all the same
Live and let live i say
 one and all | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/21/2008 12:24:47 PM | Do people think this is a good thing and a good way forward that attitudes are obviously changing (they've changed considerably since my day) or do some think this is almost promoting homosexuality as something cool?
I think it's a good thing,a step in the right direction.
I dont think it's promoting it as cool,more of it's a way of life and should be as accepted as part of human nature.
There are some people who will not and cannot accept homosexuality as anything other than abnormal,i dont think they can be solely blamed for this view as it is what society,family and religion has led them to believe but hopefully a few generations down the line and the majority of views will change. | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/21/2008 12:25:10 PM | | I think it's fantastic, especially if as a result of it becoming more accepted in the media then young people feel they can also come out, then great, it can only be a good thing, can't it? | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/21/2008 12:29:10 PM | "well it's more realistic isn't it and it includes more people, a few years ago Stephen would have had to ponce about with a woman pretending he's straight, so it's good he can be who he is and be proud and happy." A wise head on such young shoulders!
Of course its a good thing.
There are no more gay people now than there were 50 years ago - it's just that nowadays they don't have to lie and hide who they are. Homosexuality isn't being promoted, it's just being recognised and accepted. (Pretending it wasnt there didn't make it go away, did it?)
I have high hopes that the sort of attitude exhibited by your daughter, OP, augurs well for a future of more open minds, and less bigotry.
In the 19th century Douglas coined the phrase "the love that dare not speak it's name". In the 21st century perhaps all loves will be equal? | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/21/2008 12:31:49 PM | I have high hopes that the sort of attitude exhibited by your daughter, OP, augers well for a future of more open minds, and less bigotry.
I agree and thats why I like to exhibit my fairy on the top of my xmas tree ......with pride !!
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/21/2008 12:40:08 PM | SJS I think that's what surprised me the most, with the gay school friend thing and the music/dance example, my daughter's attitude. When she came home and told me about her friend, I was very interested to hear about it and sat her down at the kitchen table and asked loads of questions and she was saying "mum, what's with the questions it's hardly something out of the ordinary is it?"
Makes me feel a bit out of touch sometimes she does! But then education is a two way street and so it's good to get some back from the kids sometimes.
I just found myself imagining a boy in my school at the age of 14 declaring during a wet play time one day that he was gay and everyone just sitting around not blinking an eye lid.
The way my daughter described it the girls were congratulating him for having the balls to out himself and like I said the boys didn't give a toss either aside from the jokes about PE and showers etc, but she said that's all they were... jokes with a mate. I think it's great that this progress has been made with attitude.
I have my own views on homosexuality, but attitude to it is what this thread is about. Would I think it was so great if it was my child coming home and telling me they were gay? Yes, I think I'd be glad they could tell me rather than suffer in silence and hopefully this media attention will make that easier for kids to do now and in the future. | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/21/2008 1:16:03 PM | In my school it simply wasn't spoken about, but of course certainly existed, viz the fact that two blokes in my year went on to become President of the Gay Society - one at Oxford and the other at Cambridge. In fact, there were so many in my school that subsequently turned out to be gay I'm beginning to wonder if it was part of the syllabus which I missed.
That's a point....what would that look like on a CV....A-level English, Economics, History and Shirtlifting, with a BA in Bum Banditry. Probably a requirement for entry into the church.... | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/21/2008 1:54:03 PM | its maybe going to come across as a homophobic view or perhaps an old fashioned view but I believe that portraying homosexual relationships as the norm on impressionable children or those in their formative years is something that should not be encouraged.
While it is true that there are people with genuine homosexual preferences there are also those who acquire those same preferences from their environment.
Certainly answer questions truthfully but so lets stop promoting gay as being cool at least until they reach the age of consenting adults. | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/21/2008 1:56:17 PM | My 15 year old daughter has got me thinking about something the past couple of days, she pointed out to me on some TV programme or other the other day how she thought it was cool that they have same sex dance couples nowadays. I'd not noticed before but when I looked I noticed that as well as the traditional male/female paired up dancers on the stage doing an emotive kind of slow dance, there were a couple of pairs of men doing the same too. (Didn't notice any pairs of women but then that wouldn't have really been anything unusual if I had I don't think)
Maybe some of the dancers they had booked had just caught this projectile vomiting bug thats going around?
Or maybe(as it was women missing) they used illness as an excuse to finish there xmas shopping?
The surpless males would be paid anyway so why not just let them strut there stuff together?
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/21/2008 1:57:19 PM |
its maybe going to come across as a homophobic view or perhaps an old fashioned view but I believe that portraying homosexual relationships as the norm on impressionable children or those in their formative years is something that should not be encouraged.
While it is true that there are people with genuine homosexual preferences there are also those who acquire those same preferences from their environment.
Certainly answer questions truthfully but so lets stop promoting gay as being cool at least until they reach the age of consenting adults.
I will quickly ban my eldest Daughter who is Gay from my home then in case she is a bad influence on her younger Sister..
What a crock of crap..!!!! | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/21/2008 2:08:51 PM |
While it is true that there are people with genuine homosexual preferences there are also those who acquire those same preferences from their environment. That's a joke, right? If it isn't then you really need to open your mind a bit and do some research. Women have the right to vote now too, you know.
Msg 9: I know it's a bit of a cliche, but is there any chance that your eldest is gay himself and is frightened to the implications of admitting this to himself and others? Coming Out can be a scary process for anyone.
I suppose it's more likely that he's been influenced by his homophobic twattish peers, though. With luck he'll realise how silly he's being, and come around to sensible thinking as he matures. I hope so! (Oh, by the way, don't feel that you've done something wrong - you plainly haven't - just hope that he sees sense sooner rather than later!) | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/21/2008 2:18:49 PM | Maybe some of the dancers they had booked had just caught this projectile vomiting bug thats going around?
Or maybe(as it was women missing) they used illness as an excuse to finish there xmas shopping?
The surpless males would be paid anyway so why not just let them strut there stuff together?
No Colin they didn't just put guys together cos the women were ill. (If they had extra guys as stand ins then surely they would have had extra girls too???) My daughter tells me that it is happening more and more on TV, I don't notice much cos I don't watch it much. I believe that she is correctly informed when she says that it is done because it 'should' be done to represent those in same sex relationships and to reflect that they exist.
I don't think kids can be turned gay because of the TV or media. I suggested in the OP that there could be a danger of it being seen as cool just to see if there were any people out there who believed that homosexuality could be influenced by the media and I am shocked to find someone actually does think that!
I could understand it if someone was very anti-homosexuality because of their reglious beliefs and would rather that their children did not have these images available to them. I would have imagined that would be more from a point of view of not wanting them to think that it was OK, when they are trying to teach them that it is wrong. I never thought there would be people who would think seeing Stephen Gately hugging a bloke would turn their kids gay!
vvvvvv apols Colin, sometimes I can never tell with you what is silliness and what is serious. Sorry I'll try better in future, promise.
^^^^^^ that's a shame Cailin, hope he comes round in the end. It's strange how one child can be so different from the other, but then they are individuals and I guess as you say, peer pressure has a big part to play in the teenage years. | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/21/2008 2:26:07 PM |
No Colin they didn't just put guys together cos the women were ill. (If they had extra guys as stand ins then surely they would have had extra girls too???)
Forgive me for i have sinned.I know not what i do in adding a little sillyness.
But im not a good multi tasker and i added just becouse i can.
Allow me to be silly sometimes or we may be in danger of falling out!
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/21/2008 2:51:12 PM |
Msg 9: I know it's a bit of a cliche, but is there any chance that your eldest is gay himself and is frightened to the implications of admitting this to himself and others? Coming Out can be a scary process for anyone.
Something you may want to consider about homosexuality
The Gay Men's Wellness Guide
By: Penn, Robert E.
Gay men are disproportionately affected by certain ailments, and in addition,
diseases often take on different manifestations in gay men than in straight men. In some urban gay comunities, hepatitis B is in epidemic proportions; one in two men are HIV- positive; 54 percent are taking care of a seriously ill friend; and a third of gay men have sought the advice of a therapist.
Accepting Ourselves & Others.
By: Kominars, Sheppard B. & Kominars, Kathryn D.
An estimated 10 million addicts and alcoholics in the U.S. are homosexual or
bisexual. In fact, the rate of substance addiction rises from one in ten in the general
community to perhaps as many as one in three in the gay community.
In the UK little is known about the mental health of Lesbian Gay and Bisexual people. Information is not collected at national level, and health authorities are not required to monitor the sexuality of service users. However, several studies have been carried out in recent years by statutory mental health services, as well as by voluntary and community organisations such as Mind.
The available evidence suggests that anxiety, depression, self-harm and suicidal feelings are more common among LGB people than among heterosexual people. Rates of drug and alcohol misuse are also higher among LGB people. In all studies, bisexual men and women were usually found to have the highest levels of mental distress.
These findings reflect those of a recent review of international literature on the mental health of LGB people. This review showed that LGB people are at significantly higher risk than heterosexual people of suicidal feelings, self-harm, drug or alcohol misuse and having a mental health problem. The findings were generally similar for men and women; however, lesbian and bisexual women were at particular risk of suicidal feelings and drug or alcohol dependence, while gay and bisexual men were over four times more likely than heterosexual men to attempt suicide.
Warner, J. et al. 2004, 'Rates predictors of mental illness in gay men, lesbians and bisexual men and women', British Journal of Psychiatry, vol. 185, pp. 479–85.
King, M. et al. 2003, 'Mental health and quality of life of gay men and lesbians in England and Wales', British Journal of Psychiatry, vol. 183, pp. 552–8.
Finding employment…Institutional homophobia
Many of our social and economic institutions have a history of promoting heterosexuality as the norm, running services and developing policies that do not take account of the needs of LGB people. Where LGB people have been recognised, their sexuality has often been seen as inferior or morally wrong. The legal system, the armed forces, public services, including health and education, and many religions have histories of institutionalised homophobia.
Being lesbian, gay or bisexual is not in itself a mental health problem; however, coping with the effects of homophobia can be highly detrimental to the mental health of a lesbian, gay or bisexual person.
Over the past ten years, studies have suggested that internalised homophobia is a risk factor for alcohol and drug dependency among LGB people. Anxiety, depression, self-harm, suicide and attempted suicide have also been linked with the combination of prejudice or discrimination and internalised negative feelings.
A study by Imperial College London in 2004 demonstrated a possible link between levels of homophobic discrimination and mental ill-health among LGB people. Researchers found that the incidence of mental distress, including anxiety, depression and self-harm, was higher than average among the LGB participants. The majority of this sample (83 per cent) had experienced damage to property, physical attacks or verbal bullying. | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/21/2008 2:58:43 PM | John msg 10
its maybe going to come across as a homophobic view or perhaps an old fashioned view but I believe that portraying homosexual relationships as the norm on impressionable children or those in their formative years is something that should not be encouraged.
IMO kids need to know about SEX in general, well before the age of consent it is information and education, not corruption.
While it is true that there are people with genuine homosexual preferences there are also those who acquire those same preferences from their environment.
Sexual preference is not something that you "catch"
Certainly answer questions truthfully but so lets stop promoting gay as being cool at least until they reach the age of consenting adults.
Homosexual relationships are rarely portrayed as the norm, but as part of our rich and diverse society. | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/21/2008 3:39:56 PM | | This is such a gay thread..... | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/21/2008 4:08:39 PM | So is what you are saying then Andy that the information you have quoted tells us that the kind of exposure referred to in the OP is going to be beneficial in reducing the mental health problems associated with being lesbian or gay because of its helping to reduce the stigma associated and the subsequent discrimination and abuse?
If so then that can only be a good thing. | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/21/2008 4:26:49 PM | I only read the OP and skimmed the rest. If i got into what a few people feel on this i would be here all night going mad at some of the closed mindedness of it all.
I am totally in favour of anything that keeps the minds of our children healthy and their wellbeing high. Teenagers have such a sh1te time of things, kids who think or know that they are gay deserve support and love, just as any teenager does. If the same sex dances can help that in anyway then all power to them. My only concern would be that these occassions have security as we all know how nasty some kids can be, gangs of kids turning up and bullying these kids is a possibility so as long as there was decent security there to protect them should this arise i cannot see there being a problem.
Our childrens peace of mind should be a top priority and if my son was to say "mum i think im gay" although i would be upset because of the prejudices in this world and would worry about the way society could be to him he would still be my son and my love for him would not change an ounce. | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/21/2008 4:37:54 PM |
the kind of exposure referred to in the OP is going to be beneficial in reducing the mental health problems associated with being lesbian or gay
I'm not too sure about that to be honest.
The general census is that there is less than 3% of the population gay. Exact figures are hard to get as some will lie and some just don’t want to say. This is not represented correctly on or in the media which is actually disproportionately operated by gay people. Even though homosexuality is portrayed more in the media, there has been little change over the last 10 years in the general public.
A lot of people and I mean the majority, get upset by seeing this and it further perpetuates the abuse that GLB people get. Fear that their kids will go down that road and end up as one of the statistics. There is still overwhelming evidence that AID’s began in the gay community and is predominantly within the gay community. Many gay people (not all), lead very promiscuous lives and even if you don’t it is more likely that your partner has or still is. Homosexuality will never really be accepted by the mainstream.
Like people have said its all about education. Maybe Kids should be told the truth at school about what being gay really means to them in the work place, socially and what it may do to their mental health. | |
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KBGB
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Joined: 11/1/2008
Msg: 21 | |
| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/21/2008 6:05:58 PM | | http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cy-7AoxFEJA | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/21/2008 10:51:36 PM | SJS How dare you!! People like you disgust me! You go on about how others see sense..and come round to your way of thinking..that everyone should accept homosexuality as 'the norm' AND YET!! you cannot accept others with different views to you~~even going as far as to ABUSE others as "homophobic twattish peers" AND accusing a BOY who does not agree with you as suffering from the same problem he dislikes!! HE is allowed to feel as HE desires in much the same way you demand he feels this acceptable. To be Homophobic by the way is to be afraid of homosexuality and to dislike something or to disagree with something is not the same thing at all  | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/22/2008 12:05:37 AM | How many more millennia before you won't be killed for being gay in Iran? | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/22/2008 12:54:39 AM | My youngest daughter came out when she was 18, it was the hardest thing she had ever done. She didnt CHOOSE to be gay, would anyone? She is now 25 and very happy with her sexuality. I have a 60 year old cousin who is gay, she had a such a hard time when younger, she even got married to try to " turn straight" ffs. Thank phuck society has nearly got over the victorian attitudes.
It has also opened up a whole new world for me, I love the gay scene but it does pi$$ my daughter of when her mates call me "milf" lol | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/22/2008 1:49:47 AM | Like people have said its all about education. Maybe Kids should be told the truth at school about what being gay really means to them in the work place, socially and what it may do to their mental health
Does this imply that if kids know what to expect when they come out that they won't? Or that if they know how 'difficult' it will be they will decide not to be gay?
I can understand that some people will find it offensive to see gay relationships portrayed on TV and other media as being OK, I must say I'm very liberal but I found it a bit odd when my daughter first brought it to my attention. At first. Then I thought about it and agreed with her that it is a good thing. I wonder how many young people have committed suicide and entered a life of hurt as they've struggled to accept what they are in silence and I guess this is only going to help change that.
Obviously attitudes are changing, as I said when I was my daughter's age, someone coming out at school would have been ostracised, mocked and probably attacked and would undoubtedly have lost his male friends as a result of his openness, so would have hid it. His family would probably have gone through it too!
There were 3 boys in my year at school who came out as being gay in their twenties and when we were at school they said they used to have girlfriends they didn't want but were scared not to have in case someone realised there was something 'wrong' and they led a life that was a lie until they were old enough to see that it didn't matter what they were, to live the way they felt they needed to was better than living a lie.
Seeing a pop star in a loving embrace with another man would have been Urgh! for a lot of young people. Now obviously things have changed but I am not naive enough to think that all young people will find it so easy to swallow. I guess it's like anything, kids do learn a lot from the home environment - bigotry and hatred can be some of those things unfortunately. I just wonder if my daughter and her group of friends are in the minority or majority of teenagers in terms of what they think about this.
I asked my daughter does she think that seeing these things will make her consider homosexuality as being OK - she said "It IS OK mum, have you got some sort of problem you want to talk about?" I then asked her if she felt this kind of thing would 'make kids gay' and she just gave me one of those looks she has of total and utter annoyance and disbelief (she does them so well, little pumpkin in training!) and said "mum, I thought you were intelligent" sighed, shook her head and pranced off signifying that the subject was closed if I was going to talk such crap.
Dave
To be Homophobic by the way is to be afraid of homosexuality and to dislike something or to disagree with something is not the same thing at all
You have a point there but I think the real meaning of homophobia has been adulterated now and it is generally thought that homophobia means you hate gay people and thereby must dislike them and what they are. Sad but true.
vvvvv yes I know you and words, when I post I have my dictionary beside me at all times! xx
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