| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/19/2009 6:56:47 PM | I have a friend who has been thru some very rough times recently. Lost her mother, got divorced, lost her job. Have tried to talk her thru a lot of it but can't imagine going thru this myself?!?!? Like to consider myself a good friend & supporter type - but she is just lost?!?! She is a recovering alcoholic and fell off the wagon....hard! Know that because I have personally made a few midnite runs myself to get her home safely. My question is this - her "sponsor" is also her sometimes boyfriend and provides her with alcohol to get his way. Sex or anything else - kinda plays what ever he want's on her addiction & she does it! Don't understand it - thought AA had rules? Want to tell her to walk away from this man and find a real sponsor but she is convinced he is the only one who really "cares" about her & considers me a nag. What can I do to help her as I am very concerned for her well being - we were like sisters growing up?!? Any advice - how do I get rid of the guy here? Thanks! | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/19/2009 7:01:21 PM | I would suggest you go to an AA meeting for family/friends and get those fine people to help you with this issue. This is incredibly serious and I'm sure the folks at AA have dealt with this before and will know the best way to handle things.
Ths so called boyfriend is lethal for her, I hope you can get her to see the light. Good luck. | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/19/2009 7:09:17 PM | Wow...really tough situation! All you can really do is be there as her friend and try to get her back into a rehab program. Not sure about "AA" rules but you could check into them. Sad situation but true that just happened in my area....there was an extremely intelligent woman who was an alcoholic. All of her friends tried to get her to rehab and some even took her there themselves. Day after Christmas she was found frozen to death in her neighbor's backyard. She had her coat and purse but no shoes on.
Do you know anyone in her family that could legally intervene? If you do, contact them. If a person is too incompetent to take care of themselves, legal action can be taken, but I'm not sure of the specifics. This happened to my cousin and her sister stepped in and took control. Had her admitted to a three month program at a facility out of town. Proud to say my cousin is clean and sober today and now works at said facility as a counselor. | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/19/2009 7:19:14 PM |
What can I do to help her as I am very concerned for her well being
1. You won't be able to truly help your friend as long as she wants to be close to her enabler.
2. Getting rid of the enabler without her wanting you to will just alienate you.
3. Consider attending local Al-Anon meeting to connect with people in similar situations. | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/19/2009 7:22:24 PM | | I agree with CMonster....If she doesnt see it herself.. not much you can do... sad but true....You see it alot in abusive relationships... You can be an enabler.. Try and help the abuser.. till they see what they need to do for themselves..you cant be much help.. It falls on deaf ears.. Sorry for your situation! | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/19/2009 7:24:59 PM | | This is a tough situation. Al-Anon would probably help you. In AA there is an unwritten rule to have a sponsor of the same gender, because of something like this happening. You are right, this guy is toxic. She is not going to let go of him as long as he is providing her with alcohol. Try and get her to an AA meeting or rehab. Unfortunately there isn't too much you can do except be her friend until she makes the decision to get help. | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/19/2009 7:25:02 PM | First of all, AAA has a policy that seriously discourages sponsors of the opposite sex!
Second, I suspect you are being used by her to enable her "trip off the wagon!" I would suggest you get a copy of the book, "I'll Quit Tomorrow" so that you can understand the disease of alchoholism! Alchoholics will do almost anything to justify their drinking, and I suspect that while losing her mother was very tough, divorce and job loss may be more attibutable to her drinking than you realize.
Finally, while it may be really tough, she won't quit drinking until her life with booze is more painful than life without booze would be! Getting rid of the guy is not your problem! Either she will choose to quit drinking or she won't! If she chooses to quit, then she will dump the guy who is not her "sponsor." | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/19/2009 7:27:50 PM | op,
Uh, if she had a real sponsor he or she would not under any circumstances ever support or supply an addicts drug of choice. He is using her for his own adavantage as he is a predator of her personality. Alot of times people fall down and don't ever get back up, at most a sitting position for some dignity.
She is the only person that can change herself, there are only us that can maybe try and guide someone to a better path. You yourself will have to test your own loyality and limits with your friend, may possibly want to walk away as many others already have. Time will tell,and how far she is willing to test your friendship to her. Try and make her see him for what he really is, and that is using her. Tell her the truth about who she is and where she is in life, (accountabilty) and if she wants to get back on track it isn't going to be with some guy enabling her habit. That is the part where it's not all her fault other people have played thier roles, but it is her allowing them to do it. Honesty in it's brutal form but with sublte tones.
I know you think that your being a friend taking her to get booze, but your adding to the problem. (kinda like if someone has a gun and wants to commit suicide but no bullets, are you going to take them to the store so they can buy some?) | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/19/2009 7:28:37 PM | AA does have rules. I don't know if there's a way to "report" someone to AA for what he's doing, but if there is, I'd find a way to do it. He's manipulating her problems to suit his own agenda, and that would not go over well with AA, if they knew about it.
Maybe you should just call them and find out? Of course, what she does outside AA is up to her, and if she wants to continue to see him, she will. She needs another sponsor, and someone who can keep her away from him till she's strong enough to stay away from him on her own. | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/19/2009 7:34:58 PM | Maybe your friend likes playing the 'victim' or the 'pityme' role why you are having a hard time getting through to her. No one can help her except herself.
Tell your friend time its time to wake up... | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/19/2009 7:36:55 PM | | Thank you all, just trying to find out how to help her - everyone deserves a chance & this guy is taking advantage of someone else's heart - so wrong - know AA is a good recovery program, she deserves better tho......L~ | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/19/2009 7:47:31 PM | | AA is not a formal institution like a rehab. It doesn't have rules but it does have guidelines. I would do as others have suggested and join Al-Anon which is for the loves ones of users. Maybe they can give you ideas on how to wake your friend up. It is more likely that they will help you deal with your own need to help this women. | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/19/2009 7:55:26 PM | AA has 12 steps and 12 traditions. There is an unspoken 13th step. It is what this guy is using. It is the one that says - "hey baby - the 13th step is written on the ceiling and you have to lay down with me to look up at it". Something like that. Been 19 years sober and I don't remember the exact wording - probably because I had a female sponsor. Who ever heard of a male sponsor for a female alcoholic! Unless they live in Alaska and there are only two people in the area getting sober, this is a bad situation. In AA, we learn to deal with life on life's terms. She knows this and is using him as much as he is her.
As for you, I suggest you try Al-Anon. Tough love is hard. My friends still have to pull it out and play that card on me sometimes and I've been clean and sober since I got up this morning. It is only a daily reprieve that we get. | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/19/2009 8:02:35 PM | Dr. Carl Jung, once counseled a man who was drinking to much. As it turned it, the cause, or proximate cause of the drinking excuse, was his overbearing mother. C. Jung advised that the man take a vacation, or at least live far enough from his mother, to relieve the dread that cause the desire to drink. And that worked, the man transferred to another city, and took his family with him, and never drank another drop.
Drinking in excess is usually an attempt and means to forget, to sleep, it is a superb narcotic (eg. "wine can cloth the most sordid hovel into heavenly splendor', Baudelaire, Fluers de Mal.) So removing the person from the geographical and cultural source of the anxiety, which causes insomnia, or fear, results in a complete new circumstance, for which the need to become intoxicated is less obvious.
Many people engage in life threatening habits, other than strong drink, as a result of 'neurosis' (see 'Our Inner Conflicts' for instance).
William James, in his "Varieties of Religious Experience' has many accounts of real people radically changing their lives, but there is no universal method. He even references persons of multiple conversions.
The best plan is to remove the affected person to a safer environment...AAA is voluntary.
The legal approach too may be a short term solution, and necessary, but that requires another caring individual with connections.
good luck | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/19/2009 8:03:14 PM | | And Ceasar - No - I have not given her booze but on the contrary hauled her butt to the gym with me to work it off and ran side by side on the tread mills to get my point across.....1. Because I was Angry....2 Because I got a weeping call at 1:30 am on a day I had to go to work to come get her......3. What part of this can I explain 1 more time that I haven't already?!? Think the advice of getting a female sponsor is dead on - I don't understand her problems but want the best for her. The male sponsor is abusing her weather she realizes it or not, AND - will do an Alonon meeting as most of you suggested. Anyone have a directory - live in a small town?!?! Thank you all for your advice - just can't give up on a friend - problems or not?!?!? Best wishes~~ L~ | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/19/2009 8:03:28 PM | Okay, Layken, I am sure that your intentions are really good!
Speaking as the sister of an alchoholic, I can assure you that she is well aware that this guy is not "taking advantage of her!" He is giving her what she wants, so that he can get what he wants - but she's the one who is putting the bottle to her lips! Don't for one minute think that he is force feeding her!
It is incredibly hard to let someone that you care about suffer the consequences of their own actions - especially when we realize that there is a chance they will continue to make choices that will just screw up their lives.
I watched my brother lie, cheat, steal, and totally f _ _ ck up his life for more than 40 years in order to continue to drink! I heard all of the excuses - wife was a witch (she was), economy sucked (it did), etc. etc. He went through treatment twice unsuccessfully - falling off the wagon within 30 days both times!
I sat with him one night in an apartment with no electricity, while he decided whether he was going to take his last $20 and drive out into the country and blow his brains out, or go into treatment one more time! The difference this time was that I picked the treatment center, when he came out - he had a requirement to move into a halfway house rather than anyone in the family; and no one in the family was going to fix any of the messes he had made of his life while he was in treatment! For the first time in 40 years cleaning up his mess was his problem - no one elses! Believe me, the hours that it took him to decide to live rather than die were the longest of my life! Fortunately for his family - he chose to live - and has been sober for more than 10 years!
The moral? You can't fix this! As much as you might want to - you can't!
It isn't the boyfriend's fault! It isn't her mother's death! Or any of the other crappy things that have happened in her life! She's a drunk! She will get sober or she won't! Let that be her decision! Find the nearest treatment center and what it takes to get in! Give her one choice - go or you walk! If she would rather drink than go into treatment, then you have your answer! | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/19/2009 8:09:55 PM | | First it's a rare case where opposite genders make good sponsors, second no sponsor of any worth would date someone they were sponsoring. Your friend would know this already and isn't taking getting sober seriously. Tell her the truth and don't pull any punches. | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/19/2009 8:16:18 PM |
Maybe they can give you ideas on how to wake your friend up. It is more likely that they will help you deal with your own need to help this women.
OP, I know you want to do what’s best for your friend. If it were me, I would be feeling distraught about the situation as well, especially when you mentioned that you two were like sisters growing up.
But, (and at the risk of getting slammed here,) I can’t help but wonder if you’re not also enabling her each time you make these “midnight runs” to rescue her whenever she falls off the wagon. No doubt you want to ensure she gets home safely, I understand that. And if it’s a matter of her driving while intoxicated, I would want to remove her from that situation as well. God forbid something were to happen to her, or worse yet, an innocent bystander, if you elected not to help her during one of those times.
However, she considers you a “nag” for expressing your concerns about her boyfriend and her well being, yet she doesn’t hesitate to call on you to help her after one of her transgressions. In other words, she knows that as much as you hate what she's doing, you'll always be there to rescue her. That in itself seems like a form of enabling.
Again, I don’t know what the right approach would be in a situation like this, which is why, like others have said, it’s something you need to discuss with a trained professional. | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/19/2009 8:24:16 PM | Quote: "Anyone have a directory - live in a small town?!?! "
There is usually a listing in your phone book. You may need to talk to the AA people and they can direct you to Al-Anon. Hope things work out. There is no beating around the bush, this is going to be a long haul and I think she is very lucky to hav a friend like you. | |
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