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 redwood34
Joined: 5/22/2006
Msg: 1
Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliensPage 1 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
It appears that the recent 800 billion stimilus bill was crafted in a way to make it too easy for illegal aliens to take advantage of it. If an illegal alien has a fake or stolen social security number or an individual taxpayer identification number, they can get stimulus checks. Full article at this link below

http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/tax_credits_stimulus/2009/01/29/176465.html?s=al&promo_code=790D-1
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 2
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Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 1/30/2009 6:27:36 PM
From the AP:


...Two senior GOP congressional officials expressed concern Thursday that the bill could steer government checks to undocumented workers, but in fact the measure indicates that Social Security numbers are needed to claim tax credits of $500 per worker and $1,000 per couple. It also expressly disqualifies nonresident aliens.

The Republicans spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly. But Democrats were quick to reject the notion.

"This legislation is directed toward people who are legal in our country. It is about time the Republicans got a different piece of reading material and get off this illegal immigrant stuff," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev. "This bill has nothing to do with anything illegal as far as immigration. It creates jobs for people who are lawfully in this country."


As you can read for yourself, one must have a valid Social Security number, and must be in this country legally, in order to qualify.

Researching can be time-consuming, however it certainly reduces the amount frustration on the part of those readers who like like to read the truth.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 3
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Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 1/30/2009 6:30:20 PM
I wouldn't place too much value on anything involving Christopher Ruddy ... especially when you consider who he is and who gives him support ...
Christopher Ruddy is a conservative American journalist.
In 1998, impressed with the way news of the Lewinsky scandal circulated on the Internet, Ruddy decided to start an Internet news company. With financial support from Scaife and other investors …

Richard Mellon SCAIFE
Born July 3, 1932 (age 76)
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Employer Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

Known for Conservative political involvement


Richard Mellon Scaife (born July 3, 1932) is an American billionaire and newspaper publisher.

Scaife owns and publishes the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. With $1.2 billion, Scaife, a principal heir to the Mellon banking, oil, and aluminum fortune, is No. 283 on the 2005 Forbes 400.

Scaife is particularly well known for his financial support of conservative public policy organizations over the past two decades. Scaife has provided support for conservative and libertarian causes in the U.S., mostly through the private, nonprofit foundations he controls: the Sarah Scaife Foundation, Carthage Foundation, and Allegheny Foundation, and until 2001 the Scaife Family Foundation, now controlled by his daughter Jennie and son David. Scaife also helped fund the Arkansas Project, which ultimately led to the impeachment proceedings of President Bill Clinton
 sum1reel
Joined: 6/5/2005
Msg: 4
Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 1/30/2009 8:49:55 PM
Ahmmm.........valid SS numbers are already being pirated by illegals......and being done so under the full knowledge of the IRS.

...with a SS# ...many such illegals can gain access to 'mainstream' type jobs in restaurant chains, dept. stores, and other places who would not otherwise hire an 'undocumented' illegal.

...the Feds give tacit approval of this because of the added revenue into the treasury as many such workers have tax 'withheld' that they could never get back because they cannot file returns!
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 5
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Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 1/30/2009 9:01:07 PM

... valid SS numbers are already being pirated by illegals......
And they are pirated on a regular basis by legals ... our own citizens do this daily.

...with a SS# ...many such illegals can gain access to 'mainstream' type jobs in restaurant chains, dept. stores, and other places who would not otherwise hire an 'undocumented' illegal.
So can the "legals" who are pirating the valid SS numbers.

...the Feds give tacit approval of this because of the added revenue into the treasury as many such workers have tax 'withheld' that they could never get back because they cannot file returns!
I'm not sure about the logic of this one ... the valid owners of the SS numbers aren't working and contributing to the added revenue into the treasury?
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 6
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Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 1/30/2009 11:04:51 PM

I'm not sure about the logic of this one ... the valid owners of the SS numbers aren't working and contributing to the added revenue into the treasury?


Are you kidding? Didn't you read the post I made in one of the illegal immigration threads where the lady's husband's SS# had been being used by an illegal for years while he was also working and it finally was caught? This wasn't an isolated incident.

And if legal citizens are "pirating" other legal citizens SSNs and they are caught they get prison terms. If illegals are found out, they pack up move to another state and do it again--or get deported and come back and do it again. You cannot compare the two.

This stimulus bill is a sham. It is nothing but Obama helping those who helped him get elected, and a tiny bone thrown at everyone else--the amount given to taxpayers is less than Bush gave out last year, but the stimlus package is much larger.
 ILGAL_00
Joined: 12/6/2008
Msg: 7
Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 1/30/2009 11:21:54 PM
"I wouldn't place too much value on anything involving Christopher Ruddy ... especially when you consider who he is and who gives him support .."

cotter: i don't see how anything included in your statement substantiates a claim for his not being credible as a journalist.

unless of course you think that just because someone is successful and conservative that they cannot be objective. do you have knowledge of something that he has written that has been proven to be a lie (you know, like what dan rather try to get away with)?

i don't know who this fellow is, but if you're going to try to discredit or dismiss someone, a fact or two would be nice.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 8
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Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 1/31/2009 6:27:13 PM
^^^^^Nice try at baiting an off topic response ...

http://politirant.com/forums/democrats/stimulus-bill-would-give-payments-to-illegal-aliens/

http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0108/Lou_Dobbs_alert_Illegal_immigrants_may_get_rebates.html
Lou Dobbs alert: Illegal immigrants may get rebates

In their bipartisan zeal to quickly cut a deal on an economic stimulus bill, GOP lawmakers overlooked something that will certainly inflame the conservative base _ illegal immigrants could receive a tax rebate check from the government.

But late Wednesday, the Senate Finance Committee was scrambling to fix the problem _ contained in the House bill _ by only allowing taxpayers using legitimate Social Security numbers to receive rebates.

The text of the House passed bill contains language making "non resident aliens" _ illegal immigrants _ ineligible for the tax rebates. But every year, hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants use individual taxpayer identification numbers, known as ITINs, to file income tax returns with the IRS. These ID numbers are used instead of Social Security numbers. There are no exact statistics for how many illegal immigrants file tax returns, but this New York Times story from last year details the significant increase in use of ITINs. This story also lays out the issue.

Immigration advocates point out that many legal immigrants use ITINs, so it would be impossible to tell who is legal and who is not from those who use these IDs. The Senate version of the bill would prohibit use of ITINs, meaning some legal immigrants would not receive rebates.

Republicans who were involved in negotiating the bipartisan economic stimulus package would like to avoid the illegal immigration debate as the $146 billion bill comes to the Senate this week. Congressional aides say the problem is that the IRS is not a law enforcement agency, so it doesn't check immigration status when people file tax returns.

"The reality is that those who filed a tax return will be eligible" for tax rebates of $600 to $1,200, said Sen. Ken Salazar (D-Colo.). "This [issue] has not been addressed" by the senators writing the bill.

The issue has certainly caught on in the conservative blogosphere, though, and you can bet a few conservative senators will bring this up as the stimulus bill hits the Senate floor. CNN's Lou Dobbs will probably have a field day with the issue as well.

A spokesman for House Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) points out that illegal immigrants are ineligible for any rebates and are committing tax fraud if they fraudulently obtain taxpayer ID numbers to file tax returns. Republicans also issued a memo Wednesday trying to defuse any controversy over immigrants and tax rebates.

"The bill includes language similar to the provisions included in the 2001 and 2003 tax relief bills designed to prevent illegal immigrants from receiving benefits," Boehner spokesman Kevin Smith said. "There is no language in the measure that would enable illegal immigrants to receive a tax rebate.”

Mark Krikorian, director of the Center for Immigration Studies, a conservative organization, says the problem is not with the economic stimulus bill but with the lack of coordination between the IRS and immigration enforcement agencies.

"If the IRS was cooperating with Social Security or DHS [Homeland Security] ... they would know who the illegal immigrants are who file tax returns," Krikorian said.
Boehner is quite a watchdog. If he thinks it's okay ... then he's keeping his eye on it and I think we should try to trust him.
 ILGAL_00
Joined: 12/6/2008
Msg: 9
Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 1/31/2009 9:16:30 PM
Nice try at baiting an off topic response ..


way to dodge the bullet on having to substantiate your comments.

 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 10
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Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 2/1/2009 11:00:22 AM

It appears that the recent 800 billion stimilus bill was crafted in a way to make it too easy for illegal aliens to take advantage of it.
Ya the article quoted in the original post was written on 01/29/09 and if you read the article I point out in message 8 (from 01/30/09) it's pretty clear they are already taking measures to correct that problem.
 pazoozoo
Joined: 8/28/2006
Msg: 11
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Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 2/2/2009 10:14:09 AM
I don't have anyone to quote, so all I can do is tell you of something I know for absolute fact. People who are dead got rebate checks previously, and people who don't exist also got rebate checks.

In order for an executor of an estate to open an estate account, they must apply for a tax ID. I know that the account on which I signed, and quite a few others got rebates in the name of the deceased. I am intimidated by the IRS, and so sent back the one my deceased person got, however, there are people I know that simply signed the check and deposited it in the estate account.

Corporations, partnerships, trust funds, etc. all have tax ID numbers, and I know that many of these entities received rebates.

It is a glitch in the system, and when I read of the stimulus checks, I wrote to Sheila Jackson Lee to make her aware of it.
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 12
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Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 2/2/2009 1:16:46 PM
I know with the previous rebates, you had to have completed a tax return. Perhaps the administration of distinguishing whether it was a 1040 or an Estate return would have been more costly than sending rebates out for Estate returns. I don't know... just guessing.

So clear this up for me... any new stimulus won't require a tax return be filed?
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 13
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Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 2/2/2009 2:10:56 PM

Are you kidding? Didn't you read the post I made in one of the illegal immigration threads where the lady's husband's SS# had been being used by an illegal for years while he was also working and it finally was caught? This wasn't an isolated incident.
I fail to see where that was awful ... the guy was getting a lot of credit towards his retirement social security without even having to pay into it. In addition, the government was cashing in on all the taxes being paid. With only one person filing a tax return (and probably not getting much back), you'd think they would have caught it quite quickly.

If taxpayer "A" earns $70,000. and taxpayer "B" earns $24,000. all on the same social security number, but only taxpayer "A" turns in a tax return related to the $70,000.... isn't the government going see that there is discrepancy of the $24,000.? Seems to me they will also see two different addresses if taxpayer "B" files for a return?

LMAO ... Oh dear ... "ready" ... sounds like you've been reading some Republican blog again. You need to quit letting them "dumb you down" like that ...

I do know people who have social security numbers who are not filing tax returns because they are not earning any reportable income. One (for example) lives with his parents and takes care of them. They do not pay him to do it, and it's a full time job to do it, so he has no opportunity to go out and earn a living.

He does not make any taxable income and so does not file a return. Now I could imagine that perhaps an illegal could get by with using his SS# ... but on the other hand, probably not since he just filed for food stamps based on the fact that he has no income. For that, he had to give them his SS# and address and had to prove there was no income The government could go on line and tell if his SS# had earned any income.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 14
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Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 2/2/2009 6:15:33 PM

LMAO ... Oh dear ... "ready" ... sounds like you've been reading some Republican blog again. You need to quit letting them "dumb you down" like that ...


If you go back and look, that dumb blog I got that story from was MSNBC (dumb- maybe, blog hardly--most libs think they are a fair and balanced news source). Go read it for yourself (after you finish laughing of course).


I fail to see where that was awful ... the guy was getting a lot of credit towards his retirement social security without even having to pay into it. In addition, the government was cashing in on all the taxes being paid. With only one person filing a tax return (and probably not getting much back), you'd think they would have caught it quite quickly.


Yeah? What if someone did it to you and took out a few car loans, or bought a house that got foreclosed on? Your anger wouldn't at all be offset by the social security credit that depending on your age, you might never see, as that system will be broke in a matter of time (they are saying 2035, which, how lovely, is about my retirement age) . But I'm not all that worried, if Obama has his way we will be all be indentured servants living in the remnants of foreclosed houses anyway.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 15
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Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 2/2/2009 6:43:33 PM


LMAO ... Oh dear ... "ready" ... sounds like you've been reading some Republican blog again. You need to quit letting them "dumb you down" like that ...

If you go back and look, that dumb blog I got that story from was MSNBC (dumb- maybe, blog hardly--most libs think they are a fair and balanced news source). Go read it for yourself (after you finish laughing of course).
Okay ... settle down ... try to lighten up a bit. It's not like we "libs" don't get harassed from time to time ...

I found an article ... don't know if it is the same ... where it said that it is not affecting the person's credit. It says that they are indeed paying taxes to the IRS (as I suspected) but that the IRS is just cashing in on them because those people do not file tax returns ... just pay into it ... to the tune of billions. It even went so far as to say that is why when people report their SS# is stolen (to the IRS) ... they really aren't too quick to respond.

The reason I was laughing is that you are insinuating that with that SS# someone could possibly buy a house etc. Well, they have to have a down-payment ... most likely some sort of bank account ... yadda, yadda, yadda.

I just recently bought a house and there is no way without several picture forms of ID that I could have bought the house ... much less gotten a loan from the bank.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 16
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Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 2/2/2009 9:16:17 PM

Okay ... settle down ... try to lighten up a bit. It's not like we "libs" don't get harassed from time to time ...


Really? 'kay. But hey, I always keep it light, at least, I try--sarcasm often gets the better of me.


I found an article ... don't know if it is the same ... where it said that it is not affecting the person's credit. It says that they are indeed paying taxes to the IRS (as I suspected) but that the IRS is just cashing in on them because those people do not file tax returns ... just pay into it ... to the tune of billions. It even went so far as to say that is why when people report their SS# is stolen (to the IRS) ... they really aren't too quick to respond.


So you are saying the IRS is guilty of perpetrating fraud? Hell, instead of worrying about going after Bush in retaliation for Clinton, maybe somebody ought to go after these thieves? Ya think?


The reason I was laughing is that you are insinuating that with that SS# someone could possibly buy a house etc. Well, they have to have a down-payment ... most likely some sort of bank account ... yadda, yadda, yadda.


Why couldn't illegals who live ten to a house pool that money together and buy a house? And you say the IRS doesn't bother to do anything so why do you believe anybody else would. There's a whole world full of people who would do anything for a buck. Doctors who write phony scripts, car dealers who sell cheaply repaired wrecked cars as solid safe vehicles, politicians who strongarm banks into loaning out money to those who can't afford to repay it and the list goes on. You don't think that just maybe there might be a few shady real estate brokers out there that will push less than legitmate deals though?


I just recently bought a house and there is no way without several picture forms of ID that I could have bought the house ... much less gotten a loan from the bank.


You just keep right on proving the Bush years weren't too bad for you, don't you. Your credit is sparkling, you just bought a house when half the nation can't borrow a dollar with two as collateral............quit bashin' the guy--you did alright.........

Now I'm laughing!!!
 redwood34
Joined: 5/22/2006
Msg: 17
Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 2/2/2009 9:18:34 PM
re: msg. 15

I wanted to reply to what you said. There seem to be a lot of misconceptions about what illegal aliens can or cannot do.
You seem to be saying that illegal aliens can't get bank accounts and can't get houses and can't ever collect on social security. Don't be too sure. Some banks don't require a SS# to open an account or get a credit card. Bank ofAmerica got slammed for this awhile back.
http://www.thetimesnews.com/onset?id=1527&template=article.html
http://newsblaze.com/story/20070220223646nnnn.np/topstory.html

Illegal aliens seem to be getting houses just fine as well, according to an official with Housing and Urban Development(HUD).
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2008/10/09/calling-old-media-five-million-illegals-have-illegal-mortgages-u

And here is the bit about illegal aliens and social security
http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/June2007/Benton070619.pdf

And lastly, the MSNBC Article the above poster was referring to is here
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6814673/
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 18
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Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 2/2/2009 9:36:35 PM
RE message 17 ...
Thanks for clearing all that up for me.

You just keep right on proving the Bush years weren't too bad for you ...

And because the "Bush" years were so good to me (ya right) I guess when I journey up to Ohio this summer, I'll have to invite the poster in message 16 out to sing with me.

Anyway ... it appears that Boehner is on it ... I really do have faith in him as he is quite a watchdog and I do not mean that in a bad way.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 19
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Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 2/2/2009 10:05:11 PM
I'll have to invite the poster in message 16 out to sing with me


Sorry I can't carry a tune in a bucket, but I'll be happy to chant a few lines of "Hail dubya" with you since he seems to have done so well for ya!!!

And you have money to travel too? It just gets better and better!!!






Anyway ... it appears that Boehner is on it ... I really do have faith in him as he is quite a watchdog and I do not mean that in a bad way.


One can only hope. It seems he took off his "blinders to the coming trainwreck" and will do alright.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 20
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Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 2/2/2009 10:42:23 PM

And you have money to travel too? It just gets better and better!!!
Ya ... I'm breaking out my roller skates. I have to leave several weeks before the planned arrival date ... but the exercise will do me good ...

Boehner is from my home state and is also my age. I've heard good things about him and do believe he won't let this go until he's sure it will do the trick.


Minority Leader
John Boehner (R-OH)
born 1949, House since 1991
 ranger58
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 21
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Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 2/2/2009 11:00:44 PM
Well, it's looking like this so called stimulus bill will not only help the illegals, but the unions, unemployed, and all those who helped get the dem's elected. Sort of a pay back, not really to stimulate the economy. As much good old pork that the dem's can pile in. Now the repub's don't want to be left out in adding their pork.
 CharlesEdm
Joined: 9/16/2006
Msg: 22
Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 2/3/2009 1:08:23 AM

Well, it's looking like this so called stimulus bill will not only help the illegals, but the unions, unemployed, and all those who helped get the dem's elected. Sort of a pay back, not really to stimulate the economy. As much good old pork that the dem's can pile in. Now the repub's don't want to be left out in adding their pork.


If Obama helped the people who got him ellected, he'd be helping the majority of Americans, and that would stimulate the economy.
 cpfstock
Joined: 11/7/2005
Msg: 23
Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 2/3/2009 3:37:07 AM
The biggest problem with this "stimulus" bill is it won't work. There is nothing in this bill to create jobs. It will create some work. But, when the work is complete there won't be a job there. Having read the entire bill (talk about a headache) I don't see much there to stimulate the private sector to invest, grow and create new jobs. It would also appear it is back end loaded with most of the spending to happen in 2011 and 2012. Or more to the point, just about the time someone might want to run for re-election. I also found a few billion dollars for political payoff to Nancy Pelosi's constituency.
Anytime government says it's a crisis and we need to do something fast be very wary.
But then I'm cynical that way.
 ranger58
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 24
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Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 2/3/2009 4:24:41 AM
Well said cpfstock..
Anytime government says it's a crisis and we need to do something fast be very wary.

I'm sure there will be many crisis for this liberal government to "fix" in the next four years. Nothing like a crisis to spend money on.
I can believe that's what the Obamanites would be thinking....

If Obama helped the people who got him ellected, he'd be helping the majority of Americans, and that would stimulate the economy.

to bad this not true. Yall need to check out the stimulus bill. It helps special interest groups, that the dem's love, and charges it to the future workers of the US. Why can't people learn from history that 'tax & spend does not help our economy. As Ron Reagan said " It's not that the democrats doesn't know any thing, it's just what they know is all wrong"
 CharlesEdm
Joined: 9/16/2006
Msg: 25
Stimulus bill would give payments to illegal aliens
Posted: 2/3/2009 5:35:54 AM

I'm sure there will be many crisis for this liberal government to "fix" in the next four years. Nothing like a crisis to spend money on.
I can believe that's what the Obamanites would be thinking....


Uh huh, because the Republicans are the party that reduces government spending. No wait, history shows exactly the opposite.

http://zfacts.com/p/480.html

Regan in fact was the largest contributor.


to bad this not true. Yall need to check out the stimulus bill. It helps special interest groups, that the dem's love, and charges it to the future workers of the US. Why can't people learn from history that 'tax & spend does not help our economy. As Ron Reagan said " It's not that the democrats doesn't know any thing, it's just what they know is all wrong"


This would be Regan who had record deficit spendings, and in the meantime major ground was lost in multiple areas for the average working American. Anybody who decries special interest groups and then quotes Regan doesn't have much of a sense of perspective.
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