| Nutritional supplements...a joke
Posted: 2/1/2009 5:41:46 AM | | It never ceases to amaze me the gullability of the American public that buys anything that companies will put out there to supposedly help people to get into shape. Everything you need nutrition wise can be found in your diet by eating the right foods and there is no scientific evidence of any kind that any nutritional supplementation of any kind does anything whatsoever that you couldn't get from your diet anyway. It's even come out now that multivitamins are non-essential and in fact can be harmful. Catch a clue people and if you really want to get healthy and have aggressive fitness goals talk to a clinical dietician or nutritional specialist that can show you the right things to eat. | |
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| Nutritional supplements...a joke
Posted: 2/1/2009 7:33:23 AM | I agree theres a lot of bs advertising, It seems every week theres a new kiosk in the mall trying to market some kind of wonder powder or miracle pill made from some all natural ingredients.
I'm still going to take my vitamins, it was my doctor that told me to start taking a multi, vitamin d and b12 daily. I'm not sure how much actuially gets absorbed into my system but I think its still a good fall back when you arnt eating the right foods. | |
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| Nutritional supplements...a joke
Posted: 2/1/2009 9:15:53 AM | | I also agree. All you need is a healthy dose of exercise at least 3-4 times a week for 30minutes and you can even divide the minutes how ever you want. | |
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| Nutritional supplements...a joke
Posted: 2/1/2009 11:00:14 AM |
there is no scientific evidence of any kind that any nutritional supplementation of any kind does anything whatsoever that you couldn't get from your diet anyway.
Stronger than scientific evidence is personal evidence.
I've taken Vit E since my late twenties (suggested by my Dr.) for varicose veins. Huge difference!
I've taken a multi-vitamin (same brand - Jamieson) since I was 21. I believe that it has helped keep me youthful looking.
I lowered my cholesteral significantly (and so have others) simply by taking fish oil (Omega 3 fatty acid).
And in the last few years, I've added calcium (with mag. and vit D) because of my age and bone health.
You go ahead and rant how you can get everything you need from food and I will quietly continue to supplement my diet with things that seem to work for me. | |
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| Nutritional supplements...a joke
Posted: 2/1/2009 12:09:21 PM | | Because everyone has the time every day to cook 3 square meals consisting of 3 different food groups | |
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| Nutritional supplements...a joke
Posted: 2/1/2009 2:52:51 PM | | Would this be the appropriate time to point out to the OP that they are called nutritional SUPPLEMENTS, not nutritional REPLACEMENTS? | |
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| Nutritional supplements...a joke
Posted: 2/1/2009 5:39:13 PM | I'd say about 80-90% of the nutritional supplement industry is flat-out snake oil.
But, there is the 10-20% that's not.
For example, in my 20s when I was a weightlifting maniac I used creatine off and on for a couple years. Definitely had significant energy, strength and mass gains, though there was quite a bit of water retention and I could tell it was hard on my kidneys though I was drinking even more water than I do already. So it's something I might recommend for a hard gainer, at the very least as a much, much lesser evil than steroids.
Generally speaking, as long as the FDA continues to be a joke dominated by special-interest groups---the only thing you have to go by is slow, usually expensive, personal trial-and-error most times, and accept the reality that you may never know how much you might be falling under the placebo effect if something seems to "work." | |
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| Nutritional supplements...a joke
Posted: 2/1/2009 10:25:28 PM | | Heavy troll there OP, Heavy troll. Supplements......are supplements NOT replacements. There's no way I'd be able to consume the amount of protein or proper calories in a day that I need to bulk so I supplement my protein intake with a mass gainer...hence why they are called supplements and not replacements as the lovely BP already stated. | |
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| Nutritional supplements...a joke
Posted: 2/1/2009 10:46:53 PM | If you do a good amount of research on all of the different supplements then you would come to realize how critical they are to incorporate into your life. It is about the type of food, nutrition supplementation, rest, and the intensity/quality of exercises you perform. All of these things create the product you want to see in the mirror.
The people on magazine covers don't get that way just because of a good diet.
If you do the research on foods, supplements, and exercises then there is no reason to waste your money on seeing a dietician. | |
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| Nutritional supplements...a joke
Posted: 2/1/2009 10:47:07 PM |
and there is no scientific evidence of any kind that any nutritional supplementation of any kind does anything whatsoever that you couldn't get from your diet anyway
Big claims require big proof. You got a big task ahead of you considering the vast numbers of "supplements" that you have to disprove their claims. | |
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| Nutritional supplements...a joke
Posted: 2/1/2009 11:33:00 PM |
The people on magazine covers don't get that way just because of a good diet.
Depends on the magazine. Muscle And Fitness type magazines, there's definitely steroid use involved in most cases.
Something like Men's Health, those guys might be steroid-free.
Of course we can't leave out the possibility of cosmetic surgery and good 'ole Photoshop, too.  | |
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| Nutritional supplements...a joke
Posted: 2/2/2009 3:20:58 AM | To the OP... that is why they are called "supplements." They are made to supplement your current diet. For instance, there are thin/slim people with very fast metabolisms who have goals of gaining weight. Now, if you're going to want to do that while minimizing your body fat %, the cost can add up very quickly. It's also a lot easier to drink an 8oz protein shake/post workout drink to replenish glycogen stores and help rebuild muscle. The same goes for multi-vitamins as well. They're there to supplement. Of course they can be harmful if you're diet is already chock full of vitamins and/or protein, etc... but when you know your diet isn't giving you the proper amount of nutrients, it's nice to be able to get that proper amount in you each day. It's not a mean of escape by people to not eat or anything.
IMO, the best supplement you can possibly take is a multivitamin. If you work out a lot, and have a diet which is sufficient toward your goals*, then at the most a multi-vitamin is all you will need (*obviously it can vary depending on the kind of goal). | |
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| Nutritional supplements...a joke
Posted: 2/2/2009 7:58:53 AM | The OP is absolutely correct. The trouble is, it's theoretically correct because most people aren't disciplined enough to establish and follow a diet that provides all the nutritional requirements on a daily basis.
It's also correct to state that indiscriminate supplementation can cause more problems than it serves to correct or address. E.g., fat soluble vitamins, if taken in excess over a period of time, can cause toxicity in the body. It is also worthy to note that in equal amounts, some vitamins/minerals are processed differently by the body depending on whether the source comes from food or from supplementation. E.g., supplemental beta-carotene may increase the risk of lung cancer, prostate cancer, intracerebral hemorrhage, and cardiovascular and total mortality in people who smoke cigarettes or have a history of high-level exposure to asbestos. Whereas, beta-carotene from foods does not seem to have this effect (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/beta-carotene/NS_patient-betacarotene). Vitamin E supplementation has also been shown to have adverse effects on coronary disease; and it should be noted that Vitamin E deficiency is very rare in humans.
You can wax philosophical over the difference between "supplementation" and "replacement" but in reality, most people supplement for the purpose of replacement.
Not that I'm immune from this scrutiny. I consume fish oil every day. I eat fish perhaps once a week, or maybe 3 times a month, so yes, I'm "supplementing" because I'm not disciplined enough to eat fish 2 or 3 times a week. Ergo, I'm actually replacing the requirement/need for Omega 3 oils with fish oil pills.
On the other hand, I am truly "supplementing" with B vitamins because although I consume enough foods each day to satisfy the requirement, blood chemistries have revealed that my digestive tract does not adequately absorb enough Vitamin B naturally - so I add supplements.
The biggest problem as I see it is that many people supplement indiscriminately - with the attitude that more can't hurt. The OP's suggestion to visit a dietitian may be very helpful in determining whether or not supplementation is needed, and to what extent current supplementation may be harmful. There is growing evidence as detailed in peer-reviewed medical journals that many people are actually doing more harm than good in supplementing their diets in lieu of following a healthy diet. | |
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| Nutritional supplements...a joke
Posted: 2/2/2009 8:40:34 AM | No one argued that NO supplement could be harmful or worthless, but that the OP's assertion of ALL supplements are worthless or possibly harmfull is unsupported.
Generalizations of this nature require extensive proof, which he hasn't even attempted to do. | |
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| Nutritional supplements...a joke
Posted: 2/2/2009 9:00:23 AM | I'm like Bill Cosby's uncle, "diet of a puma" all my life (and I'm definitely waaaay too old to change), so I need the supplements.  | |
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| Nutritional supplements...a joke
Posted: 2/2/2009 5:45:08 PM | | if the supplements are actually pure and contain what they say they do. Independent analysis has found all kinds of bad stuff in the basic ingredients. The manufacturer may be buying crap from china or anywhere else that could contain all sorts of bad stuff. Also there are different types of vitamins, some natural some synthetic. Some way more potent some easier or harder to absorb. Some dont work unless they are taken with other types.... and so on. If you buy no-name stuff you probably arent getting much of anything good. | |
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| Nutritional supplements...a joke
Posted: 2/2/2009 9:10:40 PM | ^^^ Well that's just it...nutritional supplements are not classified as "food" or "drugs" so there is no government regulation or verification that they actually contain the things their labels claim that they contain.
Which means that a $50 bag of "Mega-Muscle Super-Buff Ultra-Max Whey Protein" could be just fake cocoa, flour, and powdered sugar for all we really know.  | |
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| Nutritional supplements...a joke
Posted: 2/3/2009 7:37:30 AM |
^^^ Well that's just it...nutritional supplements are not classified as "food" or "drugs" so there is no government regulation or verification that they actually contain the things their labels claim that they contain.
ConsumerLab.com | |
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| Nutritional supplements...a joke
Posted: 2/3/2009 1:14:13 PM | Just to disprove the audatious claim that suppliments do nothing, I will list 3 suppliments that do wonders if your looking to gain lean muscle mass. I can vouche from personal experience in cycling supplements to ensure I do not respond negativlely, and to ensure the suppliments actually do as they claim. Plus when you consider the best recomendation to offset any unknown issues WITH these suppliments is to ensure your properly hydrated, its not a bad thing to do anyways.
1. Whey Protean (pre-post workout) - You cannot argue this. Dont even try. In 30 seconds I'll have more reports disproving your thoughts then you could come up with reasons it doesnt work.
2. Creatine - Found naturally in Beef, proven to assist with strength, and recovey by saturating muscles with creatine and water, making for a denser muscle tissue. I have bursted past plateaus twice now particularly when using this product.
3. Mulitvitamen - Most people do not eat according to the food guidlines were supposed to. If your one of those people, a multivitamen will replenish those vitamens and minerals your not getting. | |
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| Nutritional supplements...a joke
Posted: 2/4/2009 5:15:24 AM | | To ottawa misfit: Whey protein is nothing more than a by-product of the cheese making process. I'm gonna go out on a limb here that if that's the case, you could probably get plenty of protein from milk or cheese products and other sources just like I'm stating in my original post. Is there anything wrong or are there side effects from whey protein? Doesn't appear to be but is it going to give you anything more than you could get from buying protein containing foods? No. As far as creatine...good luck with that. There are no long term studies showing its effects on the human body because it's still relatively new but clearly you're putting your body in an unnatural state with that amount of a naturally occuring substance normally found in your diet suddenly being unleashed in gargantuan amounts that your body is having to now process. As far as multivitamins don't even go there because they are a joke. Feel free to ask any doctor in America (that doesn't have an agenda to sell them) and they'll tell you the same thing. | |
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| Nutritional supplements...a joke
Posted: 2/4/2009 6:33:18 AM | ^^^^^^^^^^^ lol^^^^^^
be but is it going to give you anything more than you could get from buying protein containing foods? No
1 cup of milk is about 8 grams of protean
1 scoop of whey can be from 15-25 grams
You have to look at this as a comparable product. So if your refereing to being able to get all your protean from Tuna and Chicken, then yes, your right, it is possible. However very time consuming and inpractical.
There are no long term studies showing its effects on the human body because it's still relatively new but clearly you're putting your body in an unnatural state with that amount of a naturally occuring substance normally found in your diet suddenly being unleashed in gargantuan amounts that your body is having to now process.
There are no long term studies to show the effect on the human body when drinking orange juice either. There are educated guesses on the safety and effectivness of the product through many many various tests, by many many third party agencies. And these people PROVE there is a significant gain in strength and musle quality when using creatine. This alone makes your statement uselesss.
You seem to percieve things in extremes and black or white Fitguy. Moderation is the key when using suppliments. The human body can process wastes and things in your body it shouldnt be exposed to extremely well, partly because we are omnivores. We have survived as a species partially due to our ability to take in food and nurishment from many various sources. If we over-indulge in one item, it may harm us yes. But the same can be said of that Orange juice. Drink that contantly and you will have sugar highs, acid reflux, and a potentially over saturation of Viatamen C that your body needs to proccess. Do it for too long it might hurt you. Moderate your intake, and it can be a valuable nutritional tool. | |
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