| No smoking law - interesting loophole
Posted: 2/18/2009 8:48:06 AM | I just read in today's paper that a man was stopped by officers because he was spotted lighting a cigarrette in the car with a child under the age of 16. The officer confirmed the girl in the car was 15 years old.
Here's the loophole:
The law doesn't prohibit a 15 year old from smoking in the car.
I guess we, as adults, cannot pollute the air in a car but a 15 year old can.
*sigh*
This is just another case of Ontario politics kneeling to complainers withuot thinking things through. | |
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| No smoking law - interesting loophole
Posted: 2/18/2009 9:52:07 AM | Funny you mention this Mr. I! When that new law was passed, I commented to my daughter that I would no longer be allowed to do the dirty deed while I had her in the car. She said to me "Mom, I am legally allowed to smoke"! She is 16. She is unable to buy smokes until she is 19, but can smoke them. Make sense? Uhhhh,,,nope!
Am surprised a cop actually tried to enforce this rule to be quite honest. | |
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| No smoking law - interesting loophole
Posted: 2/18/2009 10:48:29 AM | | I was wondering about this actually. Like say a bunch of teenagers are out and some of them in the car are smoking, would those over 16 get charged even if those under 16 were smoking? | |
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| No smoking law - interesting loophole
Posted: 2/18/2009 10:58:29 AM | I was wondering about this actually. Like say a bunch of teenagers are out and some of them in the car are smoking, would those over 16 get charged even if those under 16 were smoking?
16 year olds are minors..... no charges - the law is there to protect them (ironically)
Oddly enough, the issue of minors possessing cigarrettes isn't an issue. The law focussess on those who "sell" not those who buy. I can give smokes to a 16 year old but I can't sell smokes to a 16 year old.
I'm tired of the onis being placed on everyone but the children and the parents of the children.... no wonder there are so many whiners (parents] protesting at Queen's Park; they are not held accountable.
Go figure. | |
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| No smoking law - interesting loophole
Posted: 2/18/2009 11:25:36 AM | | I guess they figure we're more responsible.(Or should be). We should be setting a good example. I would assume if a smoker isn't allowed to smoke in their car they wouldn't allow a teen to do it. It is a little odd that children are allowed to do something we're not. Opposite of drinking/gambling/etc. Maybe all these new smoking rules are confusing even the people who make them. | |
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| No smoking law - interesting loophole
Posted: 2/18/2009 11:57:55 AM | I personally think this entire thing is a little silly... the government doesn't want people to smoke, but they love the tax dollars they get from the smokers and happily apply it to their budgets and spend the money quite freely.
They keep implementing laws to deter smoking, and as the population moves more and more towards a smoke free world, they’ll be lamenting having to increase a plethora of other taxes to accommodate the lost revenue.
I actually miss the days when I could smoke at my desk while working… back when smoking was good for you and it was socially acceptable to light one up regardless of where you were…
Ack… I have to get off this topic before I drag one of the smokers outside so I can second hand smoke their cigarette…  | |
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| No smoking law - interesting loophole
Posted: 2/18/2009 12:37:39 PM | Am surprised a cop actually tried to enforce this rule to be quite honest. Oshawa has slow days as well it appears. This law is almost as enforcable as the law that makes you pick up after your dog in a park. The cost of enforcement outweighs the increased revenue from ticketing.
This is just another case of Ontario politics kneeling to complainers withuot thinking things through. Legislating common sense is a hard task. Even the Constitution of the United States needed all those amendments.
The anti-smoking lobby is huge and very influential. They have most people believing that the products of combustion in a little cigarette are unique to tobacco. But tobacco is just another plant. Most plants, when burned, produce the same or similarly harmful chemicals. Look at the size of a cigarette, and then the next time you are camping with children, look at the amount of wood etc you are burning in the campfire. Everyone sitting around the fire is breathing in thousands of times more harmful chemicals than a cigarette. Perhaps an anti-campfire lobby group will spring up one day.
I agree with the guy who wrote about the 'nanny state'. Governments should get out of the business of legislating common sense. | |
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| No smoking law - interesting loophole
Posted: 2/18/2009 3:08:52 PM | I don't smoke myself but I heard on the news about someone that was getting ticketed for smoking in the car with a minor..and while the officer was writing the ticket...the minor (while outside the car) lit up a cigarette and smoked it....
While the main intent behind the law is good (ie: I personally don't think it right to smoke in an enclosed place with a 2 year old for example)...it's impossible to have a "perfect" law....not even sure there is such a thing...so governments do the best they can I guess...
Just my 2 cents
Dave aka BHG | |
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| No smoking law - interesting loophole
Posted: 2/19/2009 12:13:34 PM | As a smoker what I find rather odd is that most people who smoke in a car have their windows open if not to air out the car but just to be able to see out the windows of the car.I find it a little strange that the government decreed a law against smoking in a car with a minor yet how many people smoke in their homes with minors in it and no open windows,I have many friends who smoke and they are responsible enough not to smoke in their homes or their vehicles with children present.So we are protecting minors in vehicles where they spend little time as compared to the smoke filled environment of their homes.To me this story is just ridiculous as the teen is smoking while the officer is issuing the ticket. | |
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| No smoking law - interesting loophole
Posted: 2/20/2009 10:31:21 PM | | Even bigger loop hole, you have to be 19 to buy smokes yet it is illegal to sell to minors however it is not illegal for them to smoke in general. Damn, if the government wants to be so fricking anal about smokers, they better target the source and the ones breaking the laws. I say since it's illegal to drink alcohol under 19, it should be illegal to smoke under 19 and I can guarantee it would be easy as hell to enforce illegal smoking over drinking, seeing as how you can pretty much just round up every teenager standing outside the front of their highschool and charge them with posession of something they are not legally allowed to have. | |
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| No smoking law - interesting loophole
Posted: 2/21/2009 6:52:38 AM |
and I can guarantee it would be easy as hell to enforce illegal smoking over drinking, seeing as how you can pretty much just round up every teenager standing outside the front of their highschool and charge them with posession of something they are not legally allowed to have. You're right, this would be easy to do... but I see a couple of huge problems with this as well.
1. The process would be cost prohibitive and time consuming. The arrest process, filing the papers to charge them and then if its contested, which I would say that eventually the majority would do, the charges would be dropped as it wouldn't be seen by the courts in a timely manner. Ontario law states that individuals have the right to be tried within a reasonable time - this was brought up many years ago when the courts were overloaded and thousands of persons had their charges dropped simply because it was determined that they were being made to wait unduly.
Without the means in place to ensure that the charges are brought to fruition, actually charging them seems less than pointless, it would send the message that our system is impotent in being able to apply the laws justly.
2. At the age of 18 the person would be termed to be an adult and such charges, if laid and determined to be substantiated, would then be on a person's permanent record. What a harsh price to pay for smoking a cigarette...
I for one am not thrilled that my 18 year old daughter smokes, but I would be challenging this in court if it were to be something that would cause issues with licencing for any future activity... many fields of work will not hire a person with a record, regardless of the infraction.
Nice in theory... but I believe in practise it fails... | |
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| No smoking law - interesting loophole
Posted: 2/21/2009 10:07:12 AM | | Think this is crazy? ... Recently heard of the mounties requiring our Ontario First Nations brothers to cover up their boat loads of ciggies as they're transporting them to the mainland. | |
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| No smoking law - interesting loophole
Posted: 2/24/2009 12:14:59 PM | My I said:
16 year olds are minors..... no charges - the law is there to protect them (ironically)
Wrong. Charges can be laid when a kid is 12. At least here in Ontario. I know this because a trouble making 12 year old neighbor of ours broke into our house and stole a bunch of stuff and he was charged, convicted and sentenced to a group home for six months plus six months probation. It was his third charge at the time. | |
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| No smoking law - interesting loophole
Posted: 2/24/2009 1:03:28 PM |
Wrong. Charges can be laid when a kid is 12. At least here in Ontario. I know this because a trouble making 12 year old neighbor of ours broke into our house and stole a bunch of stuff and he was charged, convicted and sentenced to a group home for six months plus six months probation. It was his third charge at the time.
You are speaking of criminal acts. You are not speaking about minor offences that carry fines and/or tickets. The law is very clear about fining minors... the same applies here as does the seatbelt laws. The driver is responsible for those under 16 years of age. Those minors are not held accountable for minor offences at that age... it is a parents responsibility to subscribe the laws and teach them to young kids. | |
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| No smoking law - interesting loophole
Posted: 2/25/2009 12:46:20 PM | My almost 16 year old Daughter and I discussed this just the other day........
She told me a discussion one of her Teachers had opened up in class.
Seems there was a 17 year old boy pulled over - who was smoking while driving - and the police thought his passenger 'looked' to be under 16.
Turns out they were right - the girl was only 15.
As the cops were writing her 17 year old boyfriend a ticket........she lit up herself!!~
Where is the sense meter when I'm looking for it????
B. | |
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| No smoking law - interesting loophole
Posted: 2/25/2009 1:37:18 PM |
Where is the sense meter when I'm looking for it????
Well... If you're trying to gather any sense of what Dalton is doing to Ontarians, you may as well forget about it. There is no sense with most of his reasonings. But then again, falling back on all of his campaign promises in his first term got him re-elected. So, it all comes back to the "sense" meter of the voting public.
Personally, I am a little frustrated with him. He pushes new laws and requirements down our throats, burdening the economy for the most part, and then complains the federal gov't isn't doing enough.
I heard his next new law will be: "You can only smoke if you're a smoker. Non-smokers will be levied a tax." Apparently, he's in tune with the Federal Liberals who wanted to add a "Carbon tax" on cars.... Dalton's just trying to show off. | |
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| No smoking law - interesting loophole
Posted: 2/25/2009 3:24:12 PM |
"You can only smoke if you're a smoker. Non-smokers will be levied a tax."
Please My I..........for the love of GAWD............tell me this was not ACTUALLY said/put in print somewhere??
I will be honest in saying I am far from being religious in following politics..........
I need a slap icon........or hanging my head in shame due to our Canadian Politicians icon....................... | |
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| No smoking law - interesting loophole
Posted: 3/17/2009 4:58:45 PM | | I used to be a smoker and I did smoke in my vehicle with my children, but with both windows open all the way, I didn't smoke in my house, and people actually got mad because I expected them to go outside to smoke. I personally like the new law although I'm not sure how helpful it will be. My ex. smokes in the vehicle with my children, but he aslo smokes in his home with my children, despite the fact that he has been told not to by me, by CAS and by Dr.'s because of medical conditions. He just doesn't listen. I have my fingers crossed that he will be one who is pulled over on a consistent basis and he will either finally get the hint or make the punishment more severe. | |
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| No smoking law - interesting loophole
Posted: 3/17/2009 5:26:57 PM | Welcome to the nanny nation that is Canada! In Ontario specifically apparently we all need Dalton to think for us. It's a shame he does such a terrible job of it.
You know, I miss the days when the worst we could do is poke an eye out with that thing or run with scissors. | |
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| No smoking law - interesting loophole
Posted: 3/17/2009 6:02:25 PM | I tend to believe that alcohol abuse is far more damaging to our society and our children than smoking. I do not support the laws regarding smoking with minors in a car. I do smoke but I smoke outside and not in the car with my children (with or without a law...just makes sense because I love my children).
I think the government needs to stay out of our homes and cars......there are some things that the government should have no power over when the product in question is a legal product. The money would be better spent on public awareness campaigns on the dangers of smoking with our children in the vicinity. Here is another idea, make tabacco products illegal...it might be the push I personally need to give it up.
I want to know when the warning labels about alcohol warning of addiction will start to appear? The next law around smoking that is going to be enacted is to make it illegal for a pregnant woman to smoke while pregnant.
If it is illegal to sell smokes to minors, it should also be illegal for minors to smoke. This law is retarded!!!! | |
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| No smoking law - interesting loophole
Posted: 3/17/2009 9:49:18 PM | I think the government needs to stay out of our homes and cars......there are some things that the government should have no power over when the product in question is a legal product.
Alcohol is a legal product. Are you suggesting that the government should have no power over what we do with alcohol in our own cars?
You say you don't smoke with your children in your car because you love them and because it makes sense. If it makes so much sense, then why are people regularly charged with impaired driving with children present in their cars?
Frankly, some parents are either oblivious or know full well the dangers (smoking and alcohol and even drugs) but just don't care. They simply will not get it no matter how demonstrable the potential harm done to their captive children.
If you're not one of these parents, then the law will have no impact on you. If you are one of these parents, you are the reason these kinds of laws get passed. If you won't act responsibly to protect the health and well-being of your child, the state will.
As far as your comment about how it should be illegal for minors to smoke, I don't disagree, but how are you going to enforce that one? Send the kids to jail? Or hold their parents responsible for not raising them to avoid smoking? Oh wait a minute here - can you really blame a kid for wanting to be just like mom or dad, unhealthy vices and all? | |
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| No smoking law - interesting loophole
Posted: 3/17/2009 10:03:19 PM | I personally think this entire thing is a little silly... the government doesn't want people to smoke, but they love the tax dollars they get from the smokers and happily apply it to their budgets and spend the money quite freely.
From a government standpoint, tobacco taxes provide two functions.
First, they raise the out-the-door price of tobacco products. Make the price of smoking high and enough and you'll discourage people from taking up the habit without having to make it outright illegal. How much is a pack of smokes these days? If you're a pack a day smoker, think of the alternate things you could buy with that money that would otherwise just go up in smoke. I did the math myself many many years ago.
Second, for those who are willing to pay the cost of smoking, collecting those tobacco taxes from smokers is just the government's way of making smokers self-fund in advance the higher medical costs that they are likely to incur over their lifetime as they start to succumb to the many different health issues that are directly attributable to smoking.
I'm sure the government would like tobacco taxes a whole lot higher to further discourage smoking. Unfortunately, doing so provides lush opportunity for organized crime to step in with untaxed tobacco products. That creates problems of its own kind, such as the cigarette smugglers machine-gunning Cornwall's city hall doors a few years ago in response to police crackdowns on native smugglers.
It's a bit of a catch-22 for government, but you can count on more and more restrictions being placed on where you can smoke in future, and more and more sanctions being applied to smokers by both government and non-government mechanisms. Ever check out the difference in life insurance premiums for smokers vs non-smokers these days? | |
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