Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Megaladonfishy
Joined: 5/7/2008
Msg: 1
view profile
History
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?Page 1 of 2    (1, 2)
The Republican response to Obama's adress. Now i'm not really either a donkey or an elephant for sure, I think they're all idiots, slick, but idiots nonetheless. But who wrote that speech? I'm sure the residents of California, Alaska, Hawaii, Wyoming, Washington, Oregon, and Montana think volcano monitoring could be reasonably well spent dollars, they might not think Hurricaine monitoring dollars are anywhere near as important or tornado alerts, meteor and comet tracking We've haven't had a pandemic in quite a while, what do we need to study Ebola and bird flu for?
We haven't had a tsunami in this country in modern history, and why are we all that busy watching the polar ice caps melting, hasn't happened recently?
 JohnEDeep
Joined: 7/9/2007
Msg: 2
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/25/2009 4:37:11 PM
Volcano monitoring is surely a huge waste...until one blows. If Seattle gets buried by lava, hurricane Katrina will be a fond memory.

On the other hand, if Yellowstone goes off, civilization itself might be buried. That money would've been better spent on a ragin' Armageddon party.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was more surprised by the commotion made about honeybee research during the big bailout debate. With most of our food dependant on bees for pollination, the mysterious die-off that bee colonies are undergoing is of immediate concern.

Fire, water, or starvation? Nuttin' to worry about here.
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 3
view profile
History
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/25/2009 5:12:14 PM
You do realize that volcanoes are related to earthquakes, do you not? And that any sort of major disaster would be extremely costly? And that long-dormant volcanoes do come to life again?

Really, it's best if science is left to actual scientists.
 Megaladonfishy
Joined: 5/7/2008
Msg: 4
view profile
History
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/25/2009 5:59:37 PM
You must have missed the speech where the republican senator from Louisiana suggested volcano monitoring was wastefull spending by the federal government
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 5
view profile
History
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/25/2009 6:02:10 PM
I watched a very interesting programme about supervolcanoes recently, on the UKTV History channel. It was a dramatisation of what could happen if the supervolcano under Yellowstone blew. Wiped out half the United States. Americans might need to concentrate monitoring the supervolcano under Yellowstone, at the least, because it would be devastating to America if it blew.
 RocketMan_Len
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 6
view profile
History
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/25/2009 7:08:07 PM
The whole issue with volcano monitoring, bee studies, etc., isn't that the money spent isn't useful... the issue is that it has NO place in a *recovery* bill.

It's kinda like saying that you should be able to have the insurance company pay for your new TomTom navigation system, at the same time as they're paying to repair the damage from your latest fender-bender.

Put it in a generalized spending-appropriations bill, where it belongs.
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 7
view profile
History
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/25/2009 7:32:05 PM
>>>Americans might need to concentrate monitoring the supervolcano under Yellowstone, at the least, because it would be devastating to America if it blew.

Not that I think we shouldn't be observing Volcanoes, but what will watching Yellowstone achieve? Even if we see the eurption coming a decade in advance, we wouldn't be able to stop it....
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 8
view profile
History
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/25/2009 8:12:37 PM

But who wrote that speech?
I wonder that myself.

I can't imagine that someone could make such statements (that Jindal made) with all sincerity. Did that guy hear the same speech we heard?

LMAO ... all I can say is that if Jindal is the future head of the republican party ... just put Palin in as his running mate and they should pull off a quite a win in 2012 ...
 Funcuz
Joined: 1/16/2009
Msg: 9
view profile
History
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/25/2009 8:35:37 PM

The whole issue with volcano monitoring, bee studies, etc., isn't that the money spent isn't useful... the issue is that it has NO place in a *recovery* bill.

It's kinda like saying that you should be able to have the insurance company pay for your new TomTom navigation system, at the same time as they're paying to repair the damage from your latest fender-bender.

Put it in a generalized spending-appropriations bill, where it belongs.

I suspected I wasn't getting the whole story. Thank you RocketMan and yes, I'd say that you're right about which budget the money should be allocated to.
 Ahoytheredave
Joined: 8/29/2006
Msg: 10
view profile
History
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/25/2009 8:36:47 PM
This requires the quote: "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."

Building federal bureaucracies on fear is very poor policy. When actually called on to act, they tend to be impotent like FEMA was with Katrina. Volcanoes etc. are fine fodder for study by those with a strong interest in the subject as that is their passion but tax payers don't need to be wasting their kids' and grand kids' standard of living for bureaucratic political patronage make-work programs. Leave the subject in the hands of the passionate.

Every man woman and child are only one heartbeat away from oblivion. Do you really want to waste it and maybe hasten it by worrying about it?

Yellowstone is a wonderful place to visit. I highly recommend a stay in the Old Faithful Inn in the old section. The dormer rooms are the best as the windows open to geyser hill above the balcony. The park typically has over 1000 earthquakes a year.
 greenchair
Joined: 10/13/2007
Msg: 11
view profile
History
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/25/2009 9:01:33 PM
Nobody from a city below water level has any right to question anyone else's need for a warning system. What a **stard.
 Beaugrand®™©
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 12
view profile
History
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/25/2009 9:25:49 PM
It surely is a waste. Not 1 person in 1,000 would be concerned if vulcanologists detected a sudden 1" rise in ground level in the Yellowstone caldera due to magma pressure.

Personally, I'd hastily finish stocking my underground bunker, but I'm just a paranoid survivalist...
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 13
view profile
History
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/25/2009 10:44:13 PM
I was highly impressed with OBAMA'a speech, but then came that Jindal rebuttal.

Oh dear ... now that I found this ... I simply can't get it out of my head. I couldn't stop laughing and I'm sure the republicans aren't going to find this funny ... but I just can't stop laughing about it. Then I actually heard Paul Krugman talking about it and it just started getting funny all over again.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/25/krugman-jindal-response-g_n_169826.html

Krugman Jindal Response: GOP Has Become 'The Party Of Beavis And Butthead'
The full gamut of punditry had little praise for Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal's rebuttal speech Tuesday night. Notably, Nobel laureate economist Paul Krugman, responding to the flak Jindal gave high-speed rail and volcano-monitoring, has labeled the GOP 'the party of Beavis and Butthead':

So what did Bobby Jindal choose to ridicule in this response to Obama last night? Volcano monitoring, of course.
...
The intellectual incoherence is stunning. Basically, the political philosophy of the GOP right now seems to consist of snickering at stuff that they think sounds funny. The party of ideas has become the party of Beavis and Butthead.

Sam Stein has more on the response from Democrats, Republicans and pundits, who more or less reached consensus: the speech was an awkward, embarrassing flop. From Stein:

"After watching Jindal," one Democratic strategist emailed, "I'd pay a lot of money to be back watching a Palin speech."
 Bluesman2008
Joined: 4/2/2008
Msg: 14
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/25/2009 11:22:31 PM
Comparing Jindal's "speech" to Obams's is comparing chickenshit to chicken salad. Jindal came off like a bloody fool. But back to the topic.


Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?


Tell that to the folks who lived in the vicinity of Mt. Vesuvius. I'm sure they'd have gotten a big laugh out of that.
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 15
view profile
History
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/25/2009 11:44:17 PM
^^^Or Mount St. Helen's
 Bluesman2008
Joined: 4/2/2008
Msg: 16
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/26/2009 12:47:52 AM
Exactly. I wonder if there are special glasses for people who are so shortsighted.
 RocketMan_Len
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 17
view profile
History
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/26/2009 9:59:34 AM
Again - the issue is NOT the inherent value of the monitoring of volcanoes, or hurricanes, or whatever...

The issue is that such spending DOES NOT BELONG in a spending package that is supposed to help failing businesses, or preventing people from losing their homes.
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 18
view profile
History
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/26/2009 12:51:43 PM
^^^I submit to you that if you truly wish to govern the management of government funds, you apply for a job in that field where your expertise can best be put to use.
 steveemac
Joined: 4/3/2007
Msg: 19
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/26/2009 1:34:02 PM

You must have missed the speech where the republican senator from Louisiana suggested volcano monitoring was wastefull spending by the federal government


If the Republican senator from Louisiana feels that volcano monitoring is a waste, it may have to do with the lack of volcanos -active or inactive- in the state of Louisiana.

In comparison, how would the senator from the Pelican State feel if someone from another part of the USA -say, a state NOT in "Hurricane Alley"- felt that monitoring hurricanes was wasteful? After all, they're a force of nature; they're gonna happen no matter what we do; we can't stop them; let those who are passionate do the studying, etc...perhaps we should cut the funding from NOAA's budget that relates to this? After all, all that we can do with it(monitoring hurricanes) is, oh, know when one is imminent and perhaps save American lives by evacuating those in it's path?

I'm sure the good citizens of Seattle, Tacoma, and Portland would at least see the reasonableness of funding such things, even if United States Senators (of any party) representing the good citizens of New Orleans and Baton Rouge (which became the largest city in Louisiana after the events of 2005) find it politically expedient not to be as reasonable...

But what do I know? I'm just a US citizen over the age of thirty, which makes me legally qualified to be...

...wait for it...

...a United States Senator.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 20
view profile
History
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/26/2009 2:30:53 PM
RE msg 6 by RocketMan_Len:
The whole issue with volcano monitoring, bee studies, etc., isn't that the money spent isn't useful... the issue is that it has NO place in a *recovery* bill.
That makes sense. Right idea, wrong bill.

RE msg 7 by Jiperly:
Not that I think we shouldn't be observing Volcanoes, but what will watching Yellowstone achieve? Even if we see the eurption coming a decade in advance, we wouldn't be able to stop it....
If we see the eruption coming in a decade, we cannot stop it. But we can get out of the way, move elsewhere. We might even be able to set up deep trenches to catch a lot of the lava, and in 10 years, we might come up with a good way to trap most of ash, maybe something along the same lines as moisture traps. It would be a shame if 300 million Americans died because they couldn't see the value in spending a few dollars to see a problem coming.
 Bluesman2008
Joined: 4/2/2008
Msg: 21
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/26/2009 6:35:18 PM

he issue is that such spending DOES NOT BELONG in a spending package that is supposed to help failing businesses, or preventing people from losing their homes.


And having an active volcano rain down on your city won't cause you to lose your home? Your job? Your butt?

So what difference does it make if it's in this stimulus bill or in another spending bill? It still creates (and perpetuates) jobs.

As for the bee thing, if you consider the list of vegetables and fruits that bees pollinate, you'd damned well better find out what this problem is all about.
 RocketMan_Len
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 22
view profile
History
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/26/2009 7:09:26 PM
^^^^^

So what difference does it make if it's in this stimulus bill or in another spending bill? It still creates (and perpetuates) jobs.


The difference is the urgency. The stimulus bill is intended for areas that require *immediate* relief... not areas that are funded through regular channels and are just asking for more.

Like I said in my earlier post - the analogy is one of a car that's been in an accident. You go to the insurance company to cover the cost to repair your vehicle - but you don't ask them to spring for a new GPS nav-system while they're doing it.

If it doesn't matter where the money goes in the stimulus bill... let's earmark another fifty billion to go to NASA for better launch systems, and another twenty billion for SkyWatch to track incoming asteroids. After all, it still perpetuates jobs, right...? And having a big rock fall on your head will cause a LOT more people to lose their jobs and homes than the current economic problems ever would.

But it's not an immediate problem, so it gets crowded off the table. Just like seismic monitoring, levee improvements, animal-behaviour research...

For someone who said that he wasn't going to allow 'earmarks' to slip into this bill, the President sure seems to be allowing quite a few of'em...
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 23
view profile
History
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/26/2009 7:59:35 PM

But it's not an immediate problem, so it gets crowded off the table. Just like seismic monitoring, levee improvements, animal-behaviour research


I have to take issue with you on the levee improvements not only will the repair/replacement create jobs but the work has the potential to save billions of dollars in federal disaster aid not to mention lives

Bridges, tunnels, dams are all great investments that could save billions in federal dollars and thousands of lives


For someone who said that he wasn't going to allow 'earmarks' to slip into this bill, the President sure seems to be allowing quite a few of'em


Can you be less general and more specific
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 24
view profile
History
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/26/2009 9:08:28 PM

The difference is the urgency. The stimulus bill is intended for areas that require *immediate* relief... not areas that are funded through regular channels and are just asking for more.


You're misinterpreting the purpose of the stimulus bill. The purpose is to inject cash into the economy. The means is to find one-time expenditures that can do that; ie finding projects that won't increase the overall, ongoing budget commitments. Volcano monitoring is one area that has been neglected while technology has advanced.

It's just one area where money can be spent doing good and will have the effect of putting money into companies that have developed the tools, as well as protecting the American people sometime in the next 50 years. There will be a volcanic issue in that time, and having warnings will save lives.
 jack-d-ripper
Joined: 2/25/2008
Msg: 25
view profile
History
Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?
Posted: 2/26/2009 9:46:23 PM
What is in the bill...........


US Geological Survey

For an additional amount for ''Surveys, Investigations, and Research'', $140,000,000, for repair, construction and restoration of facilities; equipment replacement and upgrades including stream gages, and seismic and volcano monitoring systems; national map activities; and other critical deferred maintenance and improvement projects.


This is much more than Volcano monitoring, It is about work and equipment replacement.
Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Volcano monitoring is a waste on taxpayer money?